Championship Region, Fifth Round: (3) Andre the Giant vs. (4) Kurt Angle

[klunderbunker]

This is a fifth round match in the Championship Region. It will be held at Camping World Stadium in Orlando, Florida.

Starting in this round, all matches are taking place in one night, meaning all damage from one match will carry over to the next match. This will be determined by the margin of the match and total votes. The wider a margin, the more dominant a victory. The more total votes, the longer a match lasted. I'll keep these updated as the last three rounds go along.

#3. Andre the Giant

Vs.

#4. Kurt Angle

​

Polls will be open for six days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster. Assume that the wrestlers are coming in fresh after their first round match.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[sikkbones]

I didn't expect this.this will be a technical match.

Something Andre wasn't the best at.

Andre won't be sup!exed by angle, not with his broken neck.

But it won't matter. Kurt will chop down the big tree methodically

Vote angle.

 

[zhaff2004]

Andre won't tap, but angle will break his damn ankle and force a TKO/Technical submission victory against Andre.

The speed and technical ability of Kurt gives him the win here.

Vote Angle.

 

[enviousdominous]

Andre was in his prime during a different era, so I've looked into who among the top performers of his era are most comparable to Kurt Angle.

I found an interview conducted with Triple H and Bruno Sammartino that can be read here, and from that I saw this quote from Bruno that I think can best exemplify who was worthy of wearing Kurt's boots back in the day:

"Triple H was a very sincere guy and he was trained by someone who I had the most respect in the world for, and that was Walter “Killer” Kowalski."

Killer Kowalski could submit you technically, or he could grab the muscle wall of your stomach in his vice-like grip and leave you wracked with pain for a week. He didn't pull his punches, and he didn't let you make a fool of him. Killer Kowalski fought Andre in one-on-one matches five times throughout his career, and Andre won every match.

There are no unique stipulations here, and the two men are about even in terms of voting ratio from their last match. Andre, in his heyday, was putting on technical matches against opponents like El Canek, Antonio Inoki, Harley Race and Killer Kowlaski. He was a giant who could outmaneuver you, and who could catch you no matter how slippery you were.

There's no questioning Angle's greatness, but Andre wouldn't have been caught by a random keylock from Daniel Puder. You try to twist Andre's arm, he'll hoist you off your feet and laugh at you while your legs are dangling.

Vote Andre.

 

[Celtic Tiger]

This is one of those matches i have never remotely thought about before. Hmmmmm....

Andre would not beat Angle, well he could, but I just think Kurt would be too fast and can pretty much counter any hold imaginal.

It would be hard to make the big man tap, but if anyone can, Angle can...

Vote Kurt

 

[Slyfox696]

This should be a blowout in Andre's favor. Andre is too big, too powerful and too good. Andre is also quick enough that Angle's advantage in speed will not be that great.

Angle may have been an Olympic wrestler, but Andre was virtually unbeatable. No one has ever accused Angle of being unbeatable.

 

[Da Prophet]

For an Olympic wrestler it's clear Angle has a poor ground game. He got caught by that guy on Tough Enough way back in his prime. I believe Kurt lacks the power double that would be needed to get Andre to the ground. Possibly if Angle could switch onto the back, get the hooks in and apply a choke he'd win but I have no faith that he could get into that position.

With a poor ground game by Angle that leaves Andre as the winner. Solid slap to the head followed by falling onto Angle. Andre was huge. That would hurt. Seems that simple to me. Unless Andre wants to get up it's impossible for Kurt to kick out or even just survive.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I can't believe this many people so far are even voting for Angle. It's clear they have no sense of Andre's career, or they just don't want him to win this tournament twice in a row. Frankly, it's amazing he hasn't won more times. Andre in his prime could only truly be rivaled by prime Hogan, Cena and maybe Austin. Certainly a fair argument could be made for Rock.

This would be a fun match, if only to watch how Angle strategizes against such an agile monster. But in the end, Andre just forces his will upon Angle and it ends.

 

[Dragon Chief]

Kurt Angle has man handled the Big Show, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker, Kane, etc.. all who are considered big men and giants, they are also far better athletes than Andre the Giant. Kurt Angle would have no problem winning this.

Vote: Kurt Angle.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Jesus fucking Christ!

So...since Angle has Angle Slammed some big dudes, that gives him the edge against Andre?

First of all, in Andre's peak Japan run, he beat guys like the Iron Sheik and Choshu in Japan. Beat Butcher Vachon and came from the shadows of the shooter era. Angle is a great wrestler and had a splendid run, but Andre was on a level of repute and was only beaten when someone was ready to break the ceiling.

Hogan, Warrior...Austin, Rock, Cena could only bring a case for cleanly beating Andre.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The final eight seriously lacks star power. No Cena, no hogan, no Austin, no Rock, no Flair. No way you book Angle over Andre. Andre is a much bigger star and an actual draw.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

The final eight seriously lacks star power. No Cena, no hogan, no Austin, no Rock, no Flair. No way you book Angle over Andre. Andre is a much bigger star and an actual draw.

You have Lesnar on the other side who drew UFC some of their biggest gates in history and 'Taker who was one of 'Manias marquee match ups for 5+ years. That's a weak argument anyway. We aren't here to make money.

I imagine Andre is going to win this but I want to see the arguments for a Angle vs Lesnar final.

Vote Angle because he lives his life with a broken freakin' neck!

 

[Slyfox696]

You have Lesnar on the other side who drew UFC some of their biggest gates in history and 'Taker who was one of 'Manias marquee match ups for 5+ years. That's a weak argument anyway. We aren't here to make money.

It's not about us making money, it's about pro wrestlers making money and the best wrestlers make money. Referring to drawing ability is absolutely a valid argument when discussing the quality of a wrestler.

 

[nightmare]

Another valid one would be who is the better wrestler. The answer is Kurt Angle. In big gold letters, on an American flag.

Andre did have better technical ability than many give him credit for. Problem is he is fighting a machine that was designed to do this shit. Kurt will definitely take his beating, but he will topple the giant.

 

[Lowdown]

I got love for Angle and his abilities, but let's not act like Andre will be easy pickings. I don't even think Kurt will be able to get Andre off his feet in order to apply the ankle lock. Keep in mind also that in the locker room Andre had a reputation in which he was respected and feared. All in all, Kurt will do all he can go take down Goliath, but Andre in his prime was unbeatable.

 

[nightmare]

Tell me one reason why Kurt cannot take Andre off his feet &/or apply the Ankle Lock. Just saying Andre only played ball when he wanted too is not a reason, by the way.

 

[Bernkastel]

So the Cinderella run of the massively overrated Kurt Angle finally comes to an end. There's no gimmicks here. No stipulations. Kurt Angle isn't going to win on the basis that he won a clusterfuck of a HIAC match once. Andre would rag doll this fool.

Andre's unbeatable streak mostly came in the Northeast, but even outside of that only the biggest wrestlers in the world beat Andre. He beat many of the top territorial stars of the time, which is basically what Angle as been wrestling for TNA the past decade. He went from wrestling in front of crowds of thousands to crowds of hundreds, and did little to help TNA succeed financially in the long run. Andre was a top draw wherever he went.

Andre does have a submission loss, but it was against Antonio Inoki, who was 10x the pro wrestler Angle was, as well as being a gifted catch wrestler. Angle was nearly embarrassed on live television by Daniel Puder. I would seriously argue that Kurt couldn't hook nearly as well as some might argue. Amateur style is nothing like catch style. And even though he didn't look like it, Andre could grapple. He was so strong that he could counter moves with his arms that others would have to use their legs for. Angle was a master of leverage though, and I could certainly see him downing Andre, but I don't see him keeping him down for long. If the Undertaker isn't going to tap for Kurt, then Andre wouldn't either.

Andre wins.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Tell me one reason why Kurt cannot take Andre off his feet &/or apply the Ankle Lock. Just saying Andre only played ball when he wanted too is not a reason, by the way.

But, that won't win him this. Thee500 pounder can be lifted but that doesnt mean he is automatically defeated. Hansen slammed him, Andre still won that match.

Sure Angle can apply the Ankle Lock but Andre can flip him over, push him away with ease.

Andre wouldve respected the hell out of Angle after his initial rib initiation. And Kurt would have been great with Andre. But Andre did not lose to the upper mid carders like the Angles of this world.

 

[nightmare]

Upper mid card? Kurt Angle is main event, all the way. The evidence of his multiple world titles in different major promotions invalidate your statement.

For anyone still doubting the ability of Kurt & need a reason to vote logically.... go watch Vengeance 03. In that match not only did Kurt get a whooping from Big Show, but also Brock Lesnar. He took his lumps, slammed Show through a table, had a war with Lesnar, dropped Show again with the Angle Slam & then hit Brock with one to pick up the win. Angle handled Show, took Lesnar to Suplex City & won the championship.

Now that is how you handle business. If Kurt can do that, I fail to see how anyone can dismiss his talent. Vote Kurt Angle. He is that damn good.

 

[Gallops77]

Andre is huge. He's a monster. He is nearly unbeatable.

But if anyone in this bracket is not just good enough but tough enough to beat Andre, it's Angle.

People bring up Angle's ground game and the Daniel Puder incident. Daniel Puder was a trained MMA fighter who took a segment further than anyone anticipated. Angle wasn't trained in MMA. He is a world class wrestler though. Ground game for a wrestler is MUCH different than a MMA fighter. For example, MMA fighters are trained to fight off their backs. Wrestler's are trained to NEVER go to their backs.

Angle won an Olympic Gold Medal with a broken neck. It's not a gimmick. It's not something that is overstated. It's truth. 2 broken bones, 2 herniated discs, multiple pulled muscles. He didn't just compete with a broken neck, he WON the one thing an amateur wrestler dreams of winning.

Andre was great. Angle was great too. I don't think Angle makes Andre tap. But I do think he finds a way to keep the big mans shoulders down for a three count. You have to remember that Angle as a heel would do whatever it took to win too. Angle finds a way to win this one because he's that good.

Oh it's true...

Vote Angle

 

[OYDK]

Kurt Angle's one of those guys who could literally hang in the ring with just about anybody. He's beaten Brock Lesnar, Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan, and pretty much everybody else that he's stepped into the ring with over the years... but Andre would probably be his biggest challenge to date. I don't know if Angle has ever competed against somebody as physically dominating as Andre the Giant and no, Big Show's not a good comparison. Show may have been as big as Andre, but he was nowhere near as dominating.

Kurt may very well have been the most well-rounded wrestler of all time; he excelled at nearly every aspect in the ring and in my opinion, was one of the most entertaining guys to ever lace up a pair of boots. Kurt could most definitely use his technical expertise to make this a match, but it all depends on whether it would be enough to offset the strength and sheer power of Andre. Andre's been slammed numerous times throughout his career so it's not out of the realm of possibility to believe that Angle could potentially wear the giant down enough to catch him with a couple of german suplexes and an Angle Slam. But he's not going to throw Andre around. Slamming Andre the Giant was a big deal and although a lot of his opponents had more than enough strength to toss him, there's a reason why most didn't get to. Angle would have to find another way to take Andre down.

I think if Kurt could survive Andre's offensive onslaught, use his speed to wear him down, and pick apart the legs, he could legitimately find a way to catch Andre in an Angle Slam for the pin. That's a lot of ifs though. Angle could win, especially when he was at his most dangerous, but do I think he would in this scenario? Ultimately, no. It would be a match, but my gut tells me Andre would pull it out.

 

[Dragon Chief]

I really dislike the arguments being made for Andre for the most part? Wow he's a giant and booked to be unstoppable like many other giants that followed him.

Andre is nowhere near the athlete Kurt Angle is and Angle is far better than him in terms of legacy in pro wrestling, in ring skills, mic skills and just about anything else.

Kurt Angle would run circles around this fool lol, Andre can no sell all he wants but Angle can out last Andre and eventually go for the kill. No way anyone is squashing Kurt Angle.

Andre the Giant is an icon no doubt but other than that he has no edge over Angle in the slightest.

Vote: Kurt Angle, the far greater pro wrestler and superstar.

 

[Bernkastel]

I really dislike the arguments being made for Andre for the most part? Wow he's a giant and booked to be unstoppable like many other giants that followed him.

Andre is nowhere near the athlete Kurt Angle is and Angle is far better than him in terms of legacy in pro wrestling, in ring skills, mic skills and just about anything else.

Kurt Angle would run circles around this fool lol, Andre can no sell all he wants but Angle can out last Andre and eventually go for the kill. No way anyone is squashing Kurt Angle.

Andre the Giant is an icon no doubt but other than that he has no edge over Angle in the slightest.

Vote: Kurt Angle, the far greater pro wrestler and superstar.

You're joking right? Andre is the single greatest attraction in the history of professional wrestling. The argument of Andre being unstoppable is not an unfounded one when the man spent 15 years being undefeated in WWE territory. Outside of that only the top stars in the industry defeated Andre. Kurt Angle never carried the WWE. He was never the top face. He was like Chris Jericho; a short term champion used to put over a bigger star that actually could carry the company. Kurt Angle had TNA built around him, but he wasn't a profitable champion. Andre drew boatloads of money wherever he went. He was seen as being more important than any title. Kurt Angle was never on the level of superstar that would ever get a high profile win over someone like Andre.

You are vastly underestimating Andre's capabilities. He was much stronger than Kurt, and had plenty of stamina in his prime. More so than Taker, Vader, Big Show or any other modern big man. Kurt Angle would be a fly compared to Andre.

Anyone that knows anything about Andre would know that this would be a routine victory for him.

 

[Dragon Chief]

You're joking right? Andre is the single greatest attraction in the history of professional wrestling. The argument of Andre being unstoppable is not an unfounded one when the man spent 15 years being undefeated in WWE territory. Outside of that only the top stars in the industry defeated Andre. Kurt Angle never carried the WWE. He was never the top face. He was like Chris Jericho; a short term champion used to put over a bigger star that actually could carry the company. Kurt Angle had TNA built around him, but he wasn't a profitable champion. Andre drew boatloads of money wherever he went. He was seen as being more important than any title. Kurt Angle was never on the level of superstar that would ever get a high profile win over someone like Andre.

You are vastly underestimating Andre's capabilities. He was much stronger than Kurt, and had plenty of stamina in his prime. More so than Taker, Vader, Big Show or any other modern big man. Kurt Angle would be a fly compared to Andre.

Anyone that knows anything about Andre would know that this would be a routine victory for him.

I disagree I feel like Brock Lesnar is a better attraction than Andre. A pro wrestler who won the UFC Heavyweight title, seems much greater than a plain ol' giant. Kurt Angle has a better legacy than Andre no doubt, multiple world titles around the globe, 5-star matches and oh yeah the only Olympic gold medalist in WWE history. Truth be told, Andre wouldn't be as big of an attraction today or when Angle was wrestling as he was back in the day.

You're joking right? Kurt Angle was always a main-event talent when has he ever feuded for the IC Title or US Title the same way Chris Jericho has? Chris Jericho was more of a mid-carder than a main-eventer, Angle was more like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Sure he wasn't always feuding for the World Title but every year he's been with the WWE he has won/held the World Title aside from 2004, due to injury. When Angle was not holding or feuding for the World Title he was stealing the show with the best in-ring wrestlers at the time. Kurt Angle has a high profile win over just about any superstar from his era, most by submission too, I don't know what you're writing.

Andre the Giant was wrestling in an era where it was normal to be booked to be undefeated for that long, I highly doubt he would be undefeated in era where athletes such as Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle were roaming. Fans from the ruthless aggression era would get bored with Andre. Wrestling has evolved a lot since Andre's limited era. I doubt Andre would out draw Angle in Angle's era.

Also, Kurt Angle was the highest paid WWE superstar in 2006 before he left and always was a main-event level star.

 

[nightmare]

You're joking right? Andre is the single greatest attraction in the history of professional wrestling. The argument of Andre being unstoppable is not an unfounded one when the man spent 15 years being undefeated in WWE territory. Outside of that only the top stars in the industry defeated Andre. Kurt Angle never carried the WWE. He was never the top face. He was like Chris Jericho; a short term champion used to put over a bigger star that actually could carry the company. Kurt Angle had TNA built around him, but he wasn't a profitable champion. Andre drew boatloads of money wherever he went. He was seen as being more important than any title. Kurt Angle was never on the level of superstar that would ever get a high profile win over someone like Andre.

You are vastly underestimating Andre's capabilities. He was much stronger than Kurt, and had plenty of stamina in his prime. More so than Taker, Vader, Big Show or any other modern big man. Kurt Angle would be a fly compared to Andre.

Anyone that knows anything about Andre would know that this would be a routine victory for him.

Everyone had TNA built around them & they still went in the toilet.

Besides Sting and Styles, I would say Kurt was actually a big reason why TNA was pretty good at one point. His jump was a big deal. You cannot knock Angle for the demise of a once great company. If you do, then Hogan should certainly be knocked down a few notches as well. Since that never happens & its a dumb argument.. try again.


Angle has the title resume, Olympic gold, speed advantage, he is light years ahead in technical ability & tough enough to withstand the onslaught Andre can bring. If he can overcome Show & Lesnar in one match, he can take Andre being big and scary.

Andre was always going to be a special attraction due to his look. The king of the carnival if you will. Kurt became a legend by winning every damn title along the way. Amatuer, Olympic, Pro. WWE, TNA, Japan. The legit blueprint for success if you aspire to be a wrestler. Kurt is a goddamn machine. Andre was a monster & clearly a big name during his time. Kurt became who he is by beating the big names of his time & in some glorious matches along the way.

It is a mountain to climb but Kurt sets his sights, drops the straps & gets the job done.