2 weeks, 2 friggen weeks for a title run and a title run that ties Rick Flairs. I don't know about many people but I think that this was a slap to the face in many respects. The biggest is to both John and Rick. to put the title on Cena just to hand it off to Brey. Don't get me wrong I love the new WWE champion but why not have Cena win by DQ at the Royal Rumble and have AJ go into the EC as Champ to lose it to Waytt. It would have made more sence and let scene have one last good run when the time was right.
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Cena's 16th Title Run
- Thread starter Strife3
- Start date
Not at all. I could be wrong, but didn't ric flairs last world title not even last a day?
Regardless, tying 16 isn't the big thing here. He tied it, sure, but ric flair will still more be known as the 16x champion than cena will be. The more important number here is 17, because that is history making.
Regardless, tying 16 isn't the big thing here. He tied it, sure, but ric flair will still more be known as the 16x champion than cena will be. The more important number here is 17, because that is history making.
TeamAwesome
Dark Match Jobber
I'm not a fan of short title reigns. Styles could've retained the belt at the Rumble and Wyatt could've still won the Chamber match the way he did by pinning both Cena and Styles, as you have said.
I also hope that Wyatt is not just a transitional champion for Orton, what would be the point in putting the title on Cena for 2 weeks to put it on Wyatt for 6 weeks to put it on Orton?
I would have preferred for Cena to have tied Flair's record around Summerslam where he could end the 'Era of Wyatt' and tie the record at the same time, that way, a much bigger deal could have been made of him equalling Ric's 16 reigns.
Seems to me like they are rushing Cena to 17 or even 18 reigns as the WWE are unsure how much longer he is going to be around for on a full time or even part time basis.
But I wouldn't call it a slap in the face, there have been world title reigns lasting just minutes.
I also hope that Wyatt is not just a transitional champion for Orton, what would be the point in putting the title on Cena for 2 weeks to put it on Wyatt for 6 weeks to put it on Orton?
I would have preferred for Cena to have tied Flair's record around Summerslam where he could end the 'Era of Wyatt' and tie the record at the same time, that way, a much bigger deal could have been made of him equalling Ric's 16 reigns.
Seems to me like they are rushing Cena to 17 or even 18 reigns as the WWE are unsure how much longer he is going to be around for on a full time or even part time basis.
But I wouldn't call it a slap in the face, there have been world title reigns lasting just minutes.
Goldie
Getting Noticed By Management
WWE just want to break historical records where they can.... look at New Day beating Demolitions 28 year record for longest tag title reign!
Obviously no one is gonna beat Brunos 8 year world title stint... but in the current era where short title reigns are prevalent -that is the record to break for the world title. Cena will get #17 at some point to get the record.
Obviously no one is gonna beat Brunos 8 year world title stint... but in the current era where short title reigns are prevalent -that is the record to break for the world title. Cena will get #17 at some point to get the record.
ISkye
Pre-Show Stalwart
Kevin Nash won the title, and gave it to Flair. Flair literally lost the title before the night ended to Jeff Jarret. Before this, his reign lasted 7 days only because Vince Russo stripped him of the title. After picking up the championship up from Macho man, and Hogan those reigns hardly lasted over 25 days. With all that given and considering how frequent Titles change hands in current WWE I think it's fine. The number is the boasting factor for sure.
AJ was going to lose the belt either way to progress the Wyatt / Orton storyline, might as well give it to Cena to get it to the current record holder. It provides a little filler, and some big moments / interactions. It didn't seem to be treated like a ridiculously huge deal anyway. Flair is more around 18/19 in title reigns that are / were recognized and 25 that actually happened. WWE recognizes 16, Cena & Flair are on that. I'm sure Flair, and nearly everyone else is fine with the guy who was / is current WWE to hit 17, and then that one will be a big deal.
Kodo Sawaki
Championship Contender
They say it was planed that at Rumble Flair comes out and congratulates. But due to them knowing that Cena himself requested to be with Nikki at Mania, WWE didnt wanted to make a fuss about it and just quietly goes with it. When he goes 17 I am sure it would be bigger deal.
Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff
Getting Noticed By Management
With how Cena's personality is and the rumours about how he is Mr WWE based on how committed he has been for years I wouldn't be surprised if he said to WWE that he was going to be cutting back. He has many other projects on the go and is a big enough name to possibly break into TV/movies so he won't possibly won't be full time.
Perhaps WWE gave him the title as a massive thank you for years of service all knowing he was going to be moving on. Just a thought!!
Perhaps WWE gave him the title as a massive thank you for years of service all knowing he was going to be moving on. Just a thought!!
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
I figured that it had something to do with this. There are reports that WrestleMania will be Nikki Bella's last match as she continues to have issues with her neck that just aren't going away. Reportedly, she sometimes has numbness down one side of her body and taking bumps over a period of time is something that's just going to worsen that. If WrestleMania is Nikki's last match, then it's actually kinda cool on Cena's part that he wants to be with her.
It'd also explain why there wasn't a big fuss when Cena tied the record and I'm not really sure if Cena himself will want to break it. Even if he does have a 17th run, Flair is still going to be viewed as having the overall superior runs based on sheer length alone, not to mention nostalgic value; Flair's overall combined length of officially recognized reigns is somewhere in excess of 3,700 days whereas Cena's total clocks in at a little over 1,400.
According to a story on the main page a day or so ago, it says that Cena hasn't been advertised for any shows after Wrestlemania 33. That includes the Money in the Bank PPV and the European tour. The next show he is scheduled for is Survivor Series in Houston, Texas.
Might be his has other irons in the fire and is taking a leave of absence again. In which case I can understand him dropping the title to Wyatt, especially if he's not going to be around. I still think he'll break the record at some point, but not this year.
Might be his has other irons in the fire and is taking a leave of absence again. In which case I can understand him dropping the title to Wyatt, especially if he's not going to be around. I still think he'll break the record at some point, but not this year.
OYDK
King Of The Ring
I think the plan for many years now has always been to have Cena break Ric Flair's title record and I think it's obvious that Cena won at the Rumble only because they wanted to give him that 16th win. It's possible, probably even likely that Cena is going to heavily start cutting down on his time in the ring and, if that's the case, the powers that be might not see very many opportunities left to give him the title. They saw an easy opportunity to give him his 16th at the Rumble and they took it.
I think at this point, we're never going to see John Cena back in the ring as a bonafide full-timer, meaning he'll likely be taking extended breaks every few years like he's done for the past while. Like I said, if that's the case, and the WWE is hellbent on having him break Flair's record, time for them to complete that goal is running out. The Rumble was a perfect opportunity to make sure that there's time left for his 17th. Besides, the length of the title run really doesn't matter in this case. The only people who are going to remember and complain about Cena holding his 16th title for two weeks is people like us. The rest of the world will only remember that he did in fact win 16 titles, and when it happens, 17.
I think at this point, we're never going to see John Cena back in the ring as a bonafide full-timer, meaning he'll likely be taking extended breaks every few years like he's done for the past while. Like I said, if that's the case, and the WWE is hellbent on having him break Flair's record, time for them to complete that goal is running out. The Rumble was a perfect opportunity to make sure that there's time left for his 17th. Besides, the length of the title run really doesn't matter in this case. The only people who are going to remember and complain about Cena holding his 16th title for two weeks is people like us. The rest of the world will only remember that he did in fact win 16 titles, and when it happens, 17.
enviousdominous
Behold my diction
The WWE seems comfortable with setting up bland PPVs these days, and I imagine the reason why is so that every PPV doesn't dilute our senses with an "OH MY GOD!" moment.
I think that the WWE keeps their ear to the wall in regard to what fans are discussing, and I think that they're keenly aware of our assumption that John is going to follow a set path where he takes time off and becomes an off-and-on personality for an occasional ratings boost.
I really hope that we're being setup for a swerve to end all swerves. John announces that he's going to be taking some time off after WrestleMania to be with family, and thereby appears very nonchalant about whether or not he might win his match against a perennial fan favorite like AJ Styles. Then the crowd finally gets to him, maybe a plant in the audience throws Cena's shirt back or Cena takes exception to being booed while he's trying to give a heart-felt retirement speech prior to the match.
John snaps, and kayfabe injures AJ deliberately and/or dumps Nikki. I know that repeated predictions of a Cena heel turn are pretty fucking nauseating at this point, but I think that the WWE would make something like that be John's penance for getting a 17th world title.
I think that the WWE keeps their ear to the wall in regard to what fans are discussing, and I think that they're keenly aware of our assumption that John is going to follow a set path where he takes time off and becomes an off-and-on personality for an occasional ratings boost.
I really hope that we're being setup for a swerve to end all swerves. John announces that he's going to be taking some time off after WrestleMania to be with family, and thereby appears very nonchalant about whether or not he might win his match against a perennial fan favorite like AJ Styles. Then the crowd finally gets to him, maybe a plant in the audience throws Cena's shirt back or Cena takes exception to being booed while he's trying to give a heart-felt retirement speech prior to the match.
John snaps, and kayfabe injures AJ deliberately and/or dumps Nikki. I know that repeated predictions of a Cena heel turn are pretty fucking nauseating at this point, but I think that the WWE would make something like that be John's penance for getting a 17th world title.
The Life Of Pablo Ren
I know my name/avi/sig don't match.
16 isn't the big one, 17 is.
There's no rule of length for a title reign, once you win the title, it's a reign. It doesn't matter if you lose it 2 minutes later or 2 years later... it still counts as only one reign.
The combined length of Ric Flair's 15th and 16th World Title reign? 8 days. (Shoutout to KB for that).
It's fine. Really.
There's no rule of length for a title reign, once you win the title, it's a reign. It doesn't matter if you lose it 2 minutes later or 2 years later... it still counts as only one reign.
The combined length of Ric Flair's 15th and 16th World Title reign? 8 days. (Shoutout to KB for that).
It's fine. Really.
I agree and I don't understand why everyone is upset that it only lasted 2 weeks. When you are breaking a record like this one every reign is a step towards it. Cena couldn't get to 17 if he didn't get 16 before it. It doesn't matter how long they were really, or who he won the belt from. Right now he is the only one who can break Flair's record. Orton doesn't have enough time left I don't think and HHH only wrestlers a couple of times a year now.
Cena will break the record for sure. If they let Lesnar break a 21 year old Undertaker streak, then give him the title only to have him disappear for months at a time, Cena breaking Flair's record should be a cakewalk.
FlairFan2003
Mid-Card Championship Winner
WWE recognizes 16 Title Reigns based on Pro Wrestling Illustrsted's official history....
1) June 1981-June 1983 (def D. Rhodes, lost to Harley Race
2) Nov 83-May 84 (Def Race at Starrcade 83, lost to K. Von Erich in Texas Stadium)
3) May 1984-July 1986 ( Def Von Erich in Best of 3 Falls Match in Japan, lost to D. Rhodes at Great American Bash)
During this time Flair & Race traded title wins while headlining events overseas, known as "The Singapore Title Swap" but never officially recognized by the NWA or Pro Wrestling Illustrated
4) Aug 1986-Sept 1987 (Def Rhodes, lost to R. Garvin)
5) Nov 1987-Feb 1989 (def Garvin at Starrcade 87, lost to R. Steamboat at SuperBrawl)
6) May 1989-June 1990 (def Steamboat at WrestleWar, lost to Sting at Great American Bash)
7) Jan 1991-July 1991 (def Sting at special show at The Meadowlands Arena, was stripped of title by WCW in contract dispute)
During this reign the entity known as Jim Crockett Promitions NWA was now under ownership of Turner Broadcasting & their titles were re-christened as "WCW" Championships. While on tour in Japan in March 1991 Flair is pinned Tatsumi Fujinami, WCW officially recognizes the match as a DQ yet the still existing NWA Board of Directors recognize Fujinami as champ. Since WCW mostly no longer co promotes with any remaining territories from the old NWA coalition they dont care & Flair's title reign is considered un interupted, confirmed by Pro Wrestling Illustrated
8) WWE Title Jan 1992-April 1992 (won vacant title at Royal Rumble, lost to R. Savage at WrestleMania)
9) Sept 1992-Oct 1992 (def R. Savage, lost to Brett Hart)
10) NWA Title June 1993-Sept 1993 (Def Barry Windham at Great American Bash, lost to Rick Rude at Fall Brawl)
During this period the NWA reconstituted and WCW entered into a co promotional agreement with them, albeit with their own separate titles, allowing NWA titles to be contested on WCW TV and talent to swap between organizations. By the time Flair lost to Rick Rude however the organizations had a falling out and the co promotional agreement ended, Rude's title win being re christened The WCW International Title. WCW & Pro Wrestling Illustrated treated Flair's win over Windham as a World Title win so it counts under WWE Official Lineage
11) Nov 1993-July 1994 ( def Vader in "Win or Retire" Match at Starrcade 93, lost to Hulk Hogan at Bash At The Beach)
12) Nov 1995-Jan 1996 ( def Lex Luger & Sting in Triangle Match & Randy Savage in one on one encounter in consecutive bouts to win title at Starrcade 95, lost to Savage on Monday Nitro)
13) Feb 1996-April 1996 (def Savage in No DQ Match at SuperBrawl, lost to Giant/Big Show on Monday Nitro)
Flair basically dominates the World Title & World Title chase the first six months of Nitro as WCW successfully launches it's trademark prime time program
WCW, during this time, markets Flair as a 13 time champ but not wanting to acknowledge his two WWE Titles they now consider "The Singapore Title Swap" & Fujinami 91 as title changes (with Flair's win over Fujinami in a May 1991 PPV now considered a title win). Despite the change by WCW, these are not considered title changes by WWE and/or Pro Wrestling Illustrated
At this point Flair had a world title run every year from 1981-96.
14) March 1999-April 99 (def Hollywood Hogan at Uncensored, lost to DDP in Four Corners Match also involving Sting & Hogan)
Flair now has World Title Wins over Dusty Rhodes, Randy Savage, & Hulk Hogan
15) May 2000 Flair wins battle royal on Thunder to earn WCW Title shot, which he cashes in on Nitro, defeating Jeff Jarrett. WCW boss (and Jarrett's manager) Vince Russo strips Flair of the title one week later claiming Flair is to injured to wrestle (he was legit off with a minor injury but was cleared to return one week later). Kevin Nash, acting in defense of Flair not being stripped, challenges & beats newly awarded Champ Jarrett. The following week Flair returned & Nash, stating "You never lost this" gives Title back to Flair (who subsuquently lost to Jarrett).
A lot of controversy here on whether Flair should have had one reign or two, for a time in TV WCW refers to Flair as 15 Time Champion as if they do not consider this as two reigns. However, Pro Wrestling Illustrated does recognize this as two reigns because if they ignore Russo's title strip they would have to not count reigns here for Jarret & Nash. In order to ensure both Jarret & Nash recieve credit for a title reign we get....
16. Awarded Title from K. Nash May 2000 (lost to J Jarrett)
Niether the NWA or PWI in the 80s recognized alleged to title wins/losses in South America. During the early & mid 80s Flair augmented his income by taking lucrative deals to wrestle in Japan & South America when he had scheduled time off from Crockett/NWA. Occassionally in SA Flair would agree to "lose" the title to the local promotion's top star in order to set up a re match, where Flair would regain the title. The extra match if course meaning extra money for Flair & local promoters. These were not sanctioned title chsnges by the NWA and were never reported on or recognized by PWI, thus they are not considered a part of Flair's title history. This is however is where claims of being a "25 Time Champ" come from.
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
I don't mind it one bit.
Historical moment for the "historic" Royal Rumble? Done.
Great match with AJ Styles? Done.
Put over Bray Wyatt in 3 different ways:
a) He ended the historic run.
b) He pinned Cena in the Chamber.
c) He pinned Cena on Smackdown.
DONE
Historical moment for the "historic" Royal Rumble? Done.
Great match with AJ Styles? Done.
Put over Bray Wyatt in 3 different ways:
a) He ended the historic run.
b) He pinned Cena in the Chamber.
c) He pinned Cena on Smackdown.
DONE
rmp0012002
Championship Contender
16 title wins just means you also lost the title 15 times. I don't see it as a big deal as HHH has 14 and Randy Orton has 12 so they've been giving the belts out like candy.
Yeah, he was just a transition champ to give Wyatt the title to set up his WM angle w/ Orton. Plus, they probably wanted Cena to get a win over AJ.
They didn't even hype it up as much because of those reasons. They did set up the next title win he will break Flairs record. When he breaks Flairs record that will be very hyped up and over the top. That is going to be a big $ match imo. He will probably get a longer run whenever that day comes.
They didn't even hype it up as much because of those reasons. They did set up the next title win he will break Flairs record. When he breaks Flairs record that will be very hyped up and over the top. That is going to be a big $ match imo. He will probably get a longer run whenever that day comes.
Vanilla Midget
Championship Contender
Well it was the same length as his 10th title reign, but only a week shorter than his fourth title reign. Who could forget his ninth reign at 20 days, but all those are definitely longer than his sixth title reign. Batista beat Cena within five minutes of him winning the title. Talk about hot potatoes!
This wasn't Cena's first two week title reign. Are short runs good, or do quick changes devalue the strap?
Mankind and The Rock passed the title back and forth late 1998, early 99. Rock had a two day title reign and Mankind had a 20 in that time, the height of the Attitude Era in what is largely considered to be the best creative time in WWE history.
Are bad title reigns in of themselves bad? Is there something toxic about winning and losing in a short time frame? Or is this just another facet of expressing dissatisfaction for John Cena and WWE booking?
I'm not sure. Smackdown has been the better part of WWE lately. I've never hated Cena as much as most people. He doesn't need the title, though breaking Flair's record seems to be something they're bent on. So he had to win and lose title number 16 at some point or another.
Would it be better if Cena was still champion? Orton vs Cena at WrestleMania in their umpteenth meeting? Even if it was a triple threat with Wyatt it wouldn't redeem it.
Could they have just dropped the title to Styles at Elimination Chamber? Probably. The issue is I think WWE still considers Wyatt a full blown heel. So you would have a heel in Styles trying to win his title back from Wyatt.
Having a transitional champion between Styles and Wyatt decreases the personal nature that would come with Bray defeating AJ. If Wyatt took AJ's title, Styles would be after Wyatt with a passion. Considering Styles lost the title to a transitional champion who lost it to someone else, Styles eyes are set on only the title and not the title holder specifically.
That transitional champion just happens to be John Cena, and all the gripes and compunctions that come along with him.
Short reigns don't devalue the WWE title, it's the WWE title. I'm not saying it's sacred or something along those lines, it's the championship of a scripted sport. Hardcore fans are still going to watch WWE.
The way I see it is Cena finally put Wyatt over. All though none of it was 1v1. Bray still got to pin Cena clean in the chamber with no interference of any kind. Wyatt then pinned Cena again the following Tuesday, including a pre-match beat down of Wyatt by Harper.
Cena finally did what he should have done in 2014 and put over Bray Wyatt. If Cena wasn't WWE champion during this, it wouldn't have mattered quite as much.
16th reign at 14 days is fine. It would have been longer if Smackdown had the March PPV, but they didn't. Cena transitioned the title and put Wyatt over like crazy in the process.
This wasn't Cena's first two week title reign. Are short runs good, or do quick changes devalue the strap?
Mankind and The Rock passed the title back and forth late 1998, early 99. Rock had a two day title reign and Mankind had a 20 in that time, the height of the Attitude Era in what is largely considered to be the best creative time in WWE history.
Are bad title reigns in of themselves bad? Is there something toxic about winning and losing in a short time frame? Or is this just another facet of expressing dissatisfaction for John Cena and WWE booking?
I'm not sure. Smackdown has been the better part of WWE lately. I've never hated Cena as much as most people. He doesn't need the title, though breaking Flair's record seems to be something they're bent on. So he had to win and lose title number 16 at some point or another.
Would it be better if Cena was still champion? Orton vs Cena at WrestleMania in their umpteenth meeting? Even if it was a triple threat with Wyatt it wouldn't redeem it.
Could they have just dropped the title to Styles at Elimination Chamber? Probably. The issue is I think WWE still considers Wyatt a full blown heel. So you would have a heel in Styles trying to win his title back from Wyatt.
Having a transitional champion between Styles and Wyatt decreases the personal nature that would come with Bray defeating AJ. If Wyatt took AJ's title, Styles would be after Wyatt with a passion. Considering Styles lost the title to a transitional champion who lost it to someone else, Styles eyes are set on only the title and not the title holder specifically.
That transitional champion just happens to be John Cena, and all the gripes and compunctions that come along with him.
Short reigns don't devalue the WWE title, it's the WWE title. I'm not saying it's sacred or something along those lines, it's the championship of a scripted sport. Hardcore fans are still going to watch WWE.
The way I see it is Cena finally put Wyatt over. All though none of it was 1v1. Bray still got to pin Cena clean in the chamber with no interference of any kind. Wyatt then pinned Cena again the following Tuesday, including a pre-match beat down of Wyatt by Harper.
Cena finally did what he should have done in 2014 and put over Bray Wyatt. If Cena wasn't WWE champion during this, it wouldn't have mattered quite as much.
16th reign at 14 days is fine. It would have been longer if Smackdown had the March PPV, but they didn't. Cena transitioned the title and put Wyatt over like crazy in the process.
I rarely get and like short title reigns. However, I get this one.
This title reign had multiple goals and it accomplished all of those.
Firstly, John Cena is almost a part timer now. The 17th title reign is way more important. So just get it as close as it could before Cena eventually breaks the record.
Second, building Bray Wyatt's credibility. He has two clean wins over John Cena of all people in WWE. That says a lot.
So, yeah it was short-lived but it wasn't filler atleast.
This title reign had multiple goals and it accomplished all of those.
Firstly, John Cena is almost a part timer now. The 17th title reign is way more important. So just get it as close as it could before Cena eventually breaks the record.
Second, building Bray Wyatt's credibility. He has two clean wins over John Cena of all people in WWE. That says a lot.
So, yeah it was short-lived but it wasn't filler atleast.
