Can we please stop with the devalue *insert midcard title here* threads?

[Slyfox696]

Seriously, I see threads and posts on this all the time. How this guy is devaluing the IC title, or how this tag team is devaluing the Tag titles, or how this woman is devaluing the ladies title.

News flash for you people.

THEY'RE FUCKING MIDCARD TITLES! HOW CAN YOU DEVALUE SOMETHING WITH LITTLE VALUE TO BEGIN WITH?


Everyone wants to point to ten, twenty years ago and say "Look, this is when the Intercontinental title meant something". Yeah, well, that's when it was the second biggest title in the biggest company in wrestling. Now, it's no better than the FOURTH biggest title in wrestling. It's behind the Raw World Championship, the Smackdown World Championship and the ECW World Championship.

The very pecking order of the titles and their status automatically means that these low to midcard titles are not going to have any value. How can Santino devalue the Intercontinental title, when it has no value? I don't give a rat's ass about what it meant 15 years ago, I'm talking about what it CAN mean today. And what it can mean today is pretty much the same as what it means now. How can the WWE devalue a tag title, when tag titles are even more insignificant than IC or US title? It makes no sense.

So, seriously, let's stop with the "is he/she devaluing a title" threads. Or, better yet, I dare you to even TRY to refute the fact that the IC title on down will never mean anything again, as long as there are 3 world titles.

 

[justinsayne]

I have to agree with Sly here, Mid-card titles are pretty much worthless anymore, they will most likely never be worth what they were 15-20 years ago, so you really can't devalue them, and even so who really cares?, all the belts in professional wrestling are just fake championships really, they are nothing more than props to build story lines around

The only way the mid-card titles will ever mean what they meant 15 years ago is if they get rid of some belts, they would need to do away with the ECW title, unify the WWE and WHC, and then unify the US and IC titles, that way you are only left with one world title and one mid card title, thus instantly making the mid-card title mean more as it would again become the second most important titles, I don't seeing this ever happening because I'm sure WWE makes a fortune off of replica belts, and lets face it that's what wrestling is ultimately about

As for the Women's title I just don't see how you can devalue a title that no one gives a shit about in the first place, most people get and take a piss break during the Women's title matches these days anyways, that title could just disappear and hardly anyone would notice it being gone

 

[HBK-aholic]

Simply put, it's because people remember the great holders of those belts. The great holders generally have the great runs, so it's no wonder I remember those. With the IC title I remember the days Shawn had it. With the womens it's Lita, Chyna and Trish. The Tag-team I remember the TLC matches more than anything, with 3 great tag teams.

I admit to often thinking "Oh God what are they doing with that title?". So while devalue probably isn't the right word for us to use, there is a reason people do. Yes, there have probably been more 'bad' holders than good, but we don't remember those ones because they're not worth remembering. We haven't had a good holder and reign/feud with any of those 3 belts for a while now, so people think back to the good ones we do remember.

 

[Slyfox696]

Simply put, it's because people remember the great holders of those belts. The great holders generally have the great runs, so it's no wonder I remember those. With the IC title I remember the days Shawn had it. With the womens it's Lita, Chyna and Trish. The Tag-team I remember the TLC matches more than anything, with 3 great tag teams.

I admit to often thinking "Oh God what are they doing with that title?". So while devalue probably isn't the right word for us to use, there is a reason people do. Yes, there have probably been more 'bad' holders than good, but we don't remember those ones because they're not worth remembering. We haven't had a good holder and reign/feud with any of those 3 belts for a while now, so people think back to the good ones we do remember.

Yeah, but you're just confusing names with importance.

The Intercontinental title wasn't important because it had the name "Intercontinental" title. It was important because it was the second biggest title in the company. So, just look at the WWE now, and decide which is the second biggest title, and then tell me if that title is more prestigious now than the IC ever was. The answer, of course, would be yes. So, when people say that the WWE is treating a certain title as garbage or whatever, they need to understand that you can't have your fourth title have the same importance as your second title, even if the name of the title didn't change.

One other thing. As far as the "greats" that held the IC title...that's a completely nostalgic statement. Those guys that held the title 10-25 years ago were no more important then as the guys who hold it now are. Shawn Michaels as the IC champion? Great. He was still a midcarder, and was still a fairly minor player in the WWF. And the same goes for HBK, Razor, Bossman, Perfect, Rock, HHH, and all the other guys people want to talk about. If those guys had retired after their last IC run, nobody would talk about them like they do. It was their success with the more prestigious title that makes people think the IC title was so great, not the success those wrestlers had as the IC champion.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I agree. That's why I said devalue is probably the wrong word to use. But I look at if I think they have potential to be huge. Santino doesn't. He'll never move further than IC. He'll never be a HOFer.

I think a lot of the big World Champions have held the IC belt at some point. (Actually, that could be wrong, I can't be bothered looking). But if that's true, people would logically see it as a stepping stone, despite not being that.

I do also think it has a lot to do with the brand separation and therefore addition of more World titles. Depending on which title you think is the biggest, the IC took the place of second biggest for a long time. It's been pushed back to fourth quite quickly. And many people, me included, still think of it as the title which second to the World title. Until people get their head around that, this 'devalue' stuff will stay.

 

[Davi323]

But even when the IC title was the #2 belt in the entire WWF, can you honestly tell me that Pat Patterson, Ken Patera, Tito Santana, Greg Valentine, the Mountie, Marty Jannety, Jeff Jarrett, Dean Douglas, Val Venis, the Road Dogg, D-Lo Brown, Billy Gunn, and Chyna were ever truly WWE Title material? All held the IC belt before the brands, before the World Heavyweight title was brought to the WWF/E, while the IC belt was the #2 singles title in the entire WWF/E. Were they truly "great" holders of it?

Some wrestlers have used the IC title to propel themselves upwards, regardless of whether the belt was the #2 or #4 title in the company. Some haven't used it, regardless of its relative importance. Please, keep in mind, the IC title, like every other title, is a prop. It is not reflective of a wrestler's true skill, it is a prop used to advance storylines. Its not real. Never has been. Don't get so caught up in the argument that you lose sight of that.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Belts are just used to make us think that the guy wearing it is worth paying money to watch. Then, he gets in a fued with a challenger, or gets a guy to help him keep the belt
and that guy becomes someone worth watching simply by revolving around the title. But WWE don't actually do that anymore, at all.

What's stupid in WWE is that people win titles and then disappear off the face of the earth until they have a random title defense, and then suddenly, new champ, repeat.

Michelle McCool is the Divas champ. She hasn't defended the belt once since she won it nearly 3 months ago, and now she's defending against Maryse. Yet on Smackdown the only diva we see getting a lot of TV time is Maria.

Hawkins and Ryder also won the tag titles nearly 3 months ago, and to my knowledge they haven't even wrestled a match since then.

Santino is the IC champ, claiming he wants to be the best IC champ ever, yet doesn't have a match on PPV. (Maybe they're being ironic with him trying to prove he's the best by doing absolutley nothing)

Beth Phoenix doesn't actually have anyone worth wrestling atm but still, no PPV title match.

Team Priceless are defending against Cryme Tyme simply because they haven't before, and there's no other tag teams to wrestle.

TBH and i hate to say it, but Mark Henry is the only champ who's actually being used properly by using the belt/prop to make Matt Hardy look better, but the ECW scramble totally undermines that really.

In the WWE scramble it'll be a chance for Kendrick/Shelton/MVP to rise up the pecking order, even if they don't win
In the WHC scramble it will only make Punk look good if he retains.

People say that the belts are just props for storylines, and i agree. My problem is, WWE aren't even doing that anymore.

 

[Mexican Geek]

Belts are just used to make us think that the guy wearing it is worth paying money to watch. Then, he gets in a fued with a challenger, or gets a guy to help him keep the belt
and that guy becomes someone worth watching simply by revolving around the title. But WWE don't actually do that anymore, at all.

What's stupid in WWE is that people win titles and then disappear off the face of the earth until they have a random title defense, and then suddenly, new champ, repeat.

Agree. and I think the prime example are Rider & Hawkins, I mean, they're still stuck with La Familia (or whatever remains from them) but no title defenses or high profile feuds? I know that SD doesnt have a serious tag team division if at all, so what they should do is throw new guys like Evan Bourne, Spears, Ricky Ortiz in the mix, at least that should add a little bit of entertainment and a fresh exposure of the belts. Hell, give the damn tag belts to Mike Knox and his beard for fuck sake, now that would be something I would pay to see.

Cant add much more to this topic. Nowdays is all about ratings, so the credibility of the belts became secondary. Just think at what would happen if TBK win the scramble: would you call that a credible champion? I will call it a ratings Stunt.

 

[FromTheSouth]

The only title that matters is the top belt on each show. To tell the truth, the only way that there could be another belt that mattered is if there were weight division, and people stayed with in their weight class. Rey Mysterio winning the top title when he is in a different division devalues the top belt.