Can Floyd surpass Mannys without fighting and beating him?

[Super Hans]

Right now Floyd is not only in PACs rearview as far as legacy and recognition. Pacs pretty much won all the awards the last 5 years and fighter of the decade. Not to mention that the whole boxing world seemed to have made Floyd the butt of their jokes.

Now lets say Floyd doesn't fight Pac in the next two years (for whatever reason). What can he do and who could he fight and beat that will raise his status equal or surpasses that of Pacquiao??

My thoughts... If he fights and beats the winner of Williams-Martinez, it would top Pac's win over Marg. That puts Floyd right back in the race. People talk like Floyd is light years behind Pac but that's not the case at all. The only big difference between the two as of now is Pac is a bigger global star which is why he wins so many awards. In terms of overall skills and legacy they're fairly close with Pac being 1 or 2 steps ahead. But bottom line is that Floyd needs Manny more than Manny needs Floyd.

Thoughts?

 

[People's Champ]

An arguement can be made that Floyd has yet to lose a fight, therefore he's better.
I would have agreed a while back, but I can't anymore.

Looking at Floyd's career, who has he fought that really could have challenged him? He seems to have avoided any fighter who could really put hkim to the test or beat him. De la Hoya? Past his prime. Hatton? Too slow and not technical enough. He seems to have fought whoever would give him the least amount of trouble. I'm in no way saying Mayweather is not talented. He's one of the best fighters we've seen in a long time. But he seems to back away from certain fights.

I do think he needs a fight with Pacquiao in order to pass him up. It seems as if he's been ducking Pac, probably because he knows he could get pounded. But the tide has turned as far as the fan's view. Before it was "Manny doesn't want to fight Floyd" to now Floyd isn't agreeing to anything. Pac has seemed willing to fight anyone, no matter what weight class. He is the best in the world. Until Floyd takes on Pac, he's still behind him.

 

[Super Hans]

Yeah, he does seem to be ducking right now. He has not been heard of since the now infamous poochiaou video and it's unlike floyd to be quiet like this, no doubt about it he ducked Margarito a few years ago, he ducked Mosely for years and years until he was 37. I just cant see how his resume can compare to Pacs right now, he has not fought the best in his division since his 130 lbs days against Corrales and while i think he would be favoured against Pac, i just cant see how he can beat him over 12 rounds without a ko, Pacs workrate just racks up the rounds against Mayweather in my view and Floyd doesnt do enough to win enough rounds against a guy whose workrate is so high in every round, he values his 0 too much to risk a fight that is anywhere close to being a pickem fight. But if he wants to be seen as the best of his generation never mind ever as he claims, he needs Pac to cement his legacy.

Also TPP, pm me if you want a link to an interview done in the last few days where Mayweather SNR states that he fears for Lil Floyds life if he gets in the ring with Pac.

 

[Loveless]

The longer it takes to get Floyd Vs Pacquiao, the more it damages Floyds reputation. There is absolutely no question in my mind that Floyd is the better fighter but I get the sense he's getting to the point where he's not quite the fighter he used to be and he knows it.
As far as legacy, Pac may be the man in the eyes of the public but anyone who knows anything about boxing will say Floyd has the better legacy. Pac may have beaten De La Hoya, but he only did it after Mayweather broke him, the same goes for Hatton.

 

[People's Champ]

The longer it takes to get Floyd Vs Pacquiao, the more it damages Floyds reputation. There is absolutely no question in my mind that Floyd is the better fighter but I get the sense he's getting to the point where he's not quite the fighter he used to be and he knows it.
As far as legacy, Pac may be the man in the eyes of the public but anyone who knows anything about boxing will say Floyd has the better legacy. Pac may have beaten De La Hoya, but he only did it after Mayweather broke him, the same goes for Hatton.

De la Hoya was past his prime by the time he fought Mayweather. He was in no way a challenge to Floyd. Hatton was always overrated to me, and against real fighters like Mayweather and Pacquiao he was no match. So I don't buy that notion of it being because of Mayweather breaking them in. Both of them were nothing by the time they got to Mayweather.

Floyd has the rep for ducking fighters, including this one against Pacquiao. That will hurt his legacy. He ducked Cotto, Margarito, Williams, Mosley (when he was younger). You can't tell me that doesn't hurt. He has been about the money instead of fighting the best. He is so concerned about staying undefeated that he is doing everything to protect it-including avoiding fighting Pacquiao.

This falls on Mayweather. If he doesn't fight Pacquiao, his legacy takes a big hit. Anyone who knows boxing knows that.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Bottom line is Pacquio is a fighting champion every time Mayweather gains enough steam and attracts the really big contenders who can test him he retires, no Floyd is a top fighter but i do not think he is anywhere near the level of Pacquio. Pacquio has earned the boxing world's respect by taking on anyone in any weight class, and yeah it is true Floyd ducks fights he knows he will have trouble with.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

I honestly think Floyd is the better boxer out of these two, and when this fight happens he will prove it. I do agree that Mayweather does pad his record, altough he's still had some tough competitors, such as Gatti, Marquez, Judah, Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, and dominated those fights for the most part.

But he certainly does duck difficult fights just to make sure he doesn't lose, but that's because he's a perfectionist, he probably would still be undeafeated if he had taken on a tougher schedule.

Some of you in this thread seem to be underestimating/forgetting how talented and polished Floyd Mayweather is, he comes in with a perfect gameplan every time, has an excellent corner, his conditioning is absolutley unparalled, his handspeed and footwork are as well.

I'm not saying this fight won't be close, or that Floyd is a lock to win, but I have Mayweather winning this bout, and this bout will happen, even with Floyd being terrified of losing, he can't resist the fat paycheck this bout will garner.

The interesting thing about this fight is Pacquaio's mixture of power and speed, I've seen many people suggest that Pacquaio is quick enough to catch Mayweather, and then land those rock hard punches he's so famous for, this of course will cause Floyd to throw back, which will be a treat to see.

If Manny can match Floyds speed outright, this will be a fight easily one by Pacquiao, if Floyd can fight his fight, take potshots, use his excellent defense, and limit trading inside blows with Pacquaio he'll keep his streak going, and prove himself once again to be one of the greatest boxers of all time.

And to answer the OP question, I do not think Floyd could surpass Manny's legacy without beating him, because Pac has taken the tougher fights, simple as that. The fight will happen though.

 

[Super Hans]

The longer it takes to get Floyd Vs Pacquiao, the more it damages Floyds reputation. There is absolutely no question in my mind that Floyd is the better fighter but I get the sense he's getting to the point where he's not quite the fighter he used to be and he knows it.
As far as legacy, Pac may be the man in the eyes of the public but anyone who knows anything about boxing will say Floyd has the better legacy. Pac may have beaten De La Hoya, but he only did it after Mayweather broke him, the same goes for Hatton.

Barrera, Morales trilogy, Marquez at his prime fighting weight, starching Hatton, Cotto and Margarito. I wont even include De La Hoya, and its laughable you say that Mayweather broke Oscar in what was a very close fight(split decision victory). Who has Mayweather fought that is comparable to Pacs, Hatton(who cant fight at WW, look at his only other foray into that weight against Colazzo), Marquez who went up 2 weights for the fight and Mayweather still came in over weight from the agreed limit, Mayweathers best win is Corrales then Castillo as they were considered the best challenger in their division at the time, but what would i know as you said in my red rep im either biased or know nothing about boxing.

 

[jmt225]

First of all, if anybody thinks Floyd Mayweather would ever fight Paul Williams, then you're dreaming. Mayweather has been ducking Williams since, like, 2004, much longer than he has been ducking Manny Pacquiao. That fight will NEVER happen.

Anyways, I do think Floyd Mayweather needs a win over Pacquiao to cement his legacy, otherwise he will be mostly remembered for ducking the man.

The fact of the matter is, Floyd Mayweather hasn't beaten many big names, and his fights are extremely boring for the most part. He's not exciting like Pacquiao, nor does he bust his opponent's face up like Pacquiao does. So, for him to be the greatest with his style, he needs to beat everyone that's in and around his weight class who causes a potential problem for him.

You look at guys like Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson... did these guys duck anyone? Absolutely not. But best believe had Ali refused to fight Joe Frazier or Sugar Ray refused to fight Jake Lamotta... these guys would not be as renowned and respected as they currently are. That's simply a fact.

Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao is the only boxing match people want to see, and it's Mayweather and Mayweather only keeping it from happening. It will forever tarnish his legacy if he continues to hide behind excuses why he doesn't want to fight Pacquiao. Not only does it let everyone down, but Mayweather ends up looking like the biggest pussy on Earth, especially when you take into account how much money he would make if he did take the fight.

 

[Gregor_Samsa]

I did hear Floyd once refer to himself as the best of all time. He was either kidding or showing the effects of a long career of glue sniffing.

The notion that if a fighter has no losses he's automatically better than any fighter with at least one loss is childish. This logic would mean Ricardo Lopez was a better fighter than Muhammad Ali, that Laszlo Papp was a better fighter than Joe Louis and that Sven Ottke was a better fighter than Ray Robinson. Mayweather officially stands with an undefeated record but it's not like every fight has been total domination. Many feel that his record should be 40-1, with the loss coming in the first fight with Castillo.

If both fighters were to retire for good right now, Pacquiao would be known as this generation's best fighter. Mayweather needs the fight more than Manny.

It would boost Mayweather's profile tremendously if he fought and beat Sergio Martinez but I don't think Floyd's into fighting bigger fighters right now.Just two fights ago he beat little Juan Manuel Marquez who moved up almost 15 pounds to take the fight and had to be outweighed on fight night by at least 20 pounds.

For Floyd to surpass Manny in the realm of boxing P4P awesomeness he would need to fight a much bigger fighter. Right now there's no one in the lower weight classes that would really vault him above Pac.

I really hope this fight gets made so the debates end. They're on different levels now.