Bret "The Hitman" Hart: Overrated or Underrated?

[It's...Baylariat!]

This could possibly be the most heated debate in the Over/Under series. Bret Hart, to many, is the wrestling God from Canada who is the most sound wrestler in the past 30 years. Others see him as a guy with no mic ability, limited personality, and a solid technical wrestler who couldn't draw a penny outside of Canada. This is where the debate begins.

Bret Hart: Overrated or Underrated?

 

[Slam Master]

He was a great worker who was for the boys in the dressing room, he sold great, and had great ring psychology. The only thing that played against him is that he was somewhat predictable. You always knew once he got his momentum shift it was Russian leg sweep, backbreaker, elbow off 2nd rope.

He threw in many other moves like various suplexes, neckbreakers, piledriver, body slam, various takedowns and pinning combos.

The only time he evolved his character was when he turned heel for the Canada/America angle. Besides that he stayed pretty stagnate. He was great.

 

[Fm3 Hitman]

Underrated. Bret is the very reason the business shifted from people loving interviews and flashy outfits to the love of pure wrestling. In a time when the WWF was like a gallery of colorful cartoon character and gimmicks, Bret was the first to sell wrestling and show that it was a great match that made you a main eventer, not mic work first and ring work 2nd. His main event run and progression from the Hogan era is the reason why we have the quality we've had in the ring for the past 15 years from a lot of mid size guys that could have never worked the main match in the 80's.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd say rated properly. He's one of the best in ring workers ever and underrated on the mic but a complete failure as a draw in America which to me balances out to great but not on the highest level. he's right there with Shawn where he belongs. He reminds me a lot of HHH. There's just that X factor missing from Bret that makes him feel like a star. Austin had it, Hogan had it, Sting and Flair had it, Bret didn't have it. That's not a knock on Bret as it's not something that can be taught. Bret is rated properly as being on probably the second level of greatness.

 

[avi01]

none. I`m a huge Bret Hart fan and I certainly don`t think he is overrated. But most people consider him as one of the very best to ever step in the ring...so can`t really say he is underrated.
He is was such a great wrestler and I just loved his gimmick.

 

[GameOver]

I'm of the opnion that as a technical wrestler he was top 5, few could touch a flame to his in ring ability.

on the mic he wasn't that great, i can't deny that. I'd put that down to his attitude of being more family friendly which by the time he got to the top WWF was heading towards an attitude environent that he didn't seem to agree with.

So cause he didn't belive that guys should be legitimately making fun of each other and head towards pushing the envelope of realism in physical punishment he got dumped for HBK who had no problems playing that role

Also he was Canadian which obviously offends the majorty of American fans having them as a champ despite them in general being far superior as "wrestlers", go anywhere else in the world and they are admired for there ability.

Thats just my opinion though

Despite what happened over the yrs he never lost my respect for his in ring ability.
He also carried the WWF title well, i dun't know why it was so bad in ratings, he played the main event role just like as everyone does, matches involving more or less thee same routine every time, cheap pops. He didn't have the charisma of Hogan which was probably his biggest downfall and his quiet attitude obviously didn't sit well with the massive ego's of alot of people and the growing attitude amongst viewers.

IMO he deserved to go to the top as did HBK who also got massive criticizm.

His legacy has gone down as The Best There Was (in technical in ring ability). and the guy who was involved in the biggest legitimate screw job in WWF history

The Best There Is and The Best There Ever Will Be is up for debate

IOW neither Overrated or Underrated, he was what he was

 

[CKDaimen]

Love your thread series, Lariat, but this one is a swing and a miss. Overrated/Underrated should be more up in the air. It should be where it could go either way based on wrestling debate word of mouth history, forgetfulness, controversy, etc. What I'm getting at is, there is no way you can argue that Bret Hart is UNDERRATED. He is a first class Hall of Famer, a Canadian hero, the man still has all of Canada chanting "You Screwed Bret," he is a multi time World Champion, has had many classic matches....yes, I understand he has his critics, but I wouldn't give those critics enough merit to reasonably call him underrated. I think he is rated as a hall of famer who was a great World Champion. The only way to vote in this would be overrated because he definitely isn't underrated. I don't think he's overrated therefore I don't have a vote on this one.

On a slightly unrelated note, I think your best one was probably Jerry Lawler. While the consensus was underrated, I think he is very overrated as far as inside the ring talent and inside the ring impact, but I digress....Bret Hart is definitely not underrated and I don't think he's overrated.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

bret hart was one of the best technical wrestlers there has ever been, he did though benifit from rubs from some of the best flair,backlund and evan made yoko look good i think what he did at the survivor series (refuseing to give the rub to hbk) and drop the belt before going to wcw took alot of things away from him, he could be out there today and could be but he lost ten years of what could of been the greatest run there ever was but his pride got in the way and $$$ he's another warior/machoman case just imagine what wwe would've been with bret macho and warior ruleing the 90's? not under or overated but just disapointing

 

[shafe_41]

I can't agree more with the fact that this is undoubtedly the most argued debate of the over/under type. When breaking down the career of Bret Hart, you really do have to look at his full body of work. You also have to look at this objectively. You have to try not to take all the backstage riffs he had with people into account. Also, some people are so blind by the big matches and accomplishments he racked up in the WWE, they tend to overlook the totally sub-par time he spent in WCW. Now you can't help but agrue that wasn't all Bret's fault in WCW. There were so many other big players in WCW, that Bret was kinda just "another guy." The death of his brother Owen also kind of overshadowed his time in WCW. Bret spent less than 3 years in WCW and really somewhat hurt his legacy because quite frankly, I can barely remember anything Bret did in WCW.

As far as just his in-ring work goes and the way he worked his matches, he is one of the best of all time. That's not even up for debate. You'd have to be insane to think Bret wasn't one of the best, most sound, techincal guys to ever lace up a pair of boots. On the mic, he was better than good, but not quite great. His promos were usually always direct and to the point with very little filler. So if you were to say Bret wasn't one of the top 10 in-ring guys of all time, then he'd be underrated... because he was that damn good.

Now you have to factor in all his shenanigans. Maybe shenanigans is the wrong word for it, but Bret did take the business very seriously... maybe too seriously. That's not a bad thing. But it is after all... a BUSINESS. I guess he took it too "personally" for lack of a better word. From the stories you hear, it didn't sound like Bret was a company guy and he always wanted to be heard, or have things go his way. If Bret had a grudge against someone *ahem*HBK*ahem* he didn't want to do anything for them. The infamous Screwjob is hard not to bring up in this situation. Bret was leaving the company for more money and because he didn't feel he was in Vince's long-term plans as a superstar. A "company guy" would have stayed for what Vince could offer in hopes the company that made you a star could turn around into the right direction. And seeing the past, that was happening when Bret left. So maybe Bret was just in leaving... but his crybaby attitude toward HBK doesn't help his case. Bret was leaving, Bret refused to drop the title as a BUSINESS DECISION... so Vince made his own business decision.

As far as a draw for the WWE, I think Bret is looked at somewhat unfairly. I mean who REALLY orders a PPV, or buys tickets for an event for ONE superstar? Looking back to 1997, Bret was damn near the only superstar selling merchandise. Those Bret Hart bears, the Bret Hart shirts, and every kid had the Bret Hart "sunglasses" with the rubber strap and purple/pink tinted plastic. At that time, Bret was really the only big face that was bankable at the time. So to put the load on Bret and saying "he wasn't a draw" is somewhat unfair. There were other exciting superstars coming up (Rock, Austin to name a few), but even look at the SSeries card for 97, it was awful. One guy can't be a massive draw solely by himself. Sure people will say Hogan, but Hogan was larger than life. Hogan is a rare breed. He is undoubtedly the biggest star in the history of the business. You can't fairly "compare" everybody to Hogan. So when people say "Bret wasn't a draw," they are correct in a sense. But Bret didn't have the best supporting cast to work with either. But at the end of the day... it is what it is.

Bret's time in WCW is just a blip on the radar, but you have to consider it. He was overshadowed by Hogan, The Outsiders, the nWo, Sting, and even a few others. Bret went from a big fish in a small pond, to a big fish... with a pond with bigger fish. He didn't do for WCW what they thought he would do for them.

My diagnosis: Just Slightly Overrated. Bret's great, don't get me wrong. I love watching his matches because they are some of the most real matches I have seen, or will ever see. But his attitude and passion towards the business and others in the business got the best of him a little bit. Whether that be fair or unfair, again, it is what it is.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

shafe41 has got it to a tee, (yea i had a pair of pink glasses) cause he was there to fill the end of hogans wwf run and was the only big star left at the time ah wish hed of just droped the title that night and came back to wwe during the invasion can u imagine bret harts wcw team against dx? i can dream right he dug his own grave though verry sad hes def in the top 10 all time and top ten dumba## category

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Hmmmmm..I'd probably have to say that he's rated properly overall. Bret Hart was someone that always had good matches and, for a long time, was one of the real workhorses of the WWF. In the late 80s and very early 90s, Vince always went to him whenever he needed to have a good match, even if the match didn't necessarily have to mean anything. In my opinion, one of the best in-ring workers ever. I know some say he's somewhat predictable but, then again, so are most of the greats. They tend to have a style, flow and arsenal of moves that just says "Yeah, that's so and so". I always thought he gave pretty good promos, not the best, but I don't think he gets quite as much credit as he deserves for them.

Now, Bret was never that big of a draw in the United States. That's ultimately something that's just going to work against him to some degree. However, for me, the last year or so he was in the WWF was when I think he was at his best in terms of just being an interesting character. Prior to that, he was just kinda blah overall. Prior to that, he didn't really have the type of personality that just drew fans in like a moth to a flame. The Hitman character didn't have that "look at me" quality.

Overall, I think Bret Hart is someone that really made it based on in-ring ability and work ethic. If The Hitman had the right kind of personality or flare that some of the others had, I think it could've made even more of a difference for him.

 

[S.O.B. Radio]

No matter what answer is given to this question, there are going to be people out there who will absolutely be pissed off. So at the risk of pissing other people off, I will give my answer.

When I first found out that Bret won the WWE Title, I was shocked. This is not the type of wrestler that fits in the Vince McMahon mold of professional wrestlers. Bret did not have all that much of a personality in front of the camera (how many times did we have to hear Jerry Lawler make derrogatory comments in relation to that) and the bigest factor that played into how I feel about Bret would have to be the talent pool in which Bret competed against.

For every Shawn Michaels, there were about 20 Fatu's. The talent levels had no depth. In fact, the WWE during Bret's tenure as champion had about as much depth as the recent ECW talent roster.

I don't think that Bret Hart was overrated or underrated. However, I will say that in all the times Bret claimed to be screwed by the business, it was Bret himself who wanted to screw the business with his Survivor Series departure. How could Bret think that he was just going to walk away from a promotion without dropping the belt? Even Jeff Jarrett had enough respect to drop the Intercontinental title before heading over to WCW the very next night. What made Jarrett's loss even worse was that he dropped the belt to a freak show novelty act.

Let me say this: the way I feel about Jeff Jarrett is the same way a lot of you feel about Bret Hart. When it comes to underrated talent in this business, I would definitely say Jarrett is more underrated than Bret Hart.

 

[OutsiderDX]

You guys are just messing up history. Bret Hart had and earned CREATIVE CONTROL in the last 30 days of his contract. He could choose whatever he wanted to do. He wasn't going to leave with the title. He was going to drop it the next night on RAW.

Its like any of you working a job for 20 years, and then earning the right to leave with your health care, and pension, all of which you earned, and then the day before u leave, your boss brings you in front of the entire workplace and slaps you in the face and says the company will not pay your pension or health care.

You earned all that working for 20 years, bret hart earned his creative control.

 

[XgringolocoX]

I don't think Bret Hart is overrated. He wasn't the best on the mic but you knew why he was there and what he wanted to do. Sht, youtube a Warrior promo!
He was a phenom in the ring. Not every match was a spectacular by any means, but he was believable and made his opponents look good.
Bret not being a draw can be debated too many ways. The business as a whole was down at the time he was on top to begin with. Although you can say it wasn't his character that started it's upward climb.
I think he was a step above many. Probably the best in the ring, just not the greatest on the mic.
Wish he and kurt Angle were in their primes at the same time. Woulda burned the arena down!

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I guess I may as well sound off on this subject, since many in here have and of course, this has stirred many a debate.

For those who say Bret Hart's rated the way he should be... fair enough. It's easy to say that he had things he was really good at and things he didn't fair so well in, but overall, he was a serviceable wrestler and a great overall athlete. HOWEVER, there are numerous factors I weigh when I determine if a wrestler is overrated or underrated.

1) I look at how the wrestler is rated as of right now. In Bret Hart's case, he's got legend status from most of the fan base. I say in this instance, he's severely overrated. Hart is a great wrestler and a definite candidate for being remembered for years to come for his contributions to the wrestling industry, but he's not a legend. In Canada, he is. Because no other Canadian wrestler is at the status that Hart is. Jericho's good, so was Benoit before he allegedly murdered his family and offed himself, but Hart is a legend in Canada. Everywhere else, he's just a solid wrestler during a time of solid athletes. Outside of Canada, Hart is slightly above average. So as far as his rating from most fans compared to how he should be rated, he's overrated by a wide margin.

2) I also factor marketability. Bret Hart was marketable. His glasses would sell like hotcakes everywhere and he was a good, clean guy who wasn't publicly reviled for steroid use or drugs. Hart would be the equivalent of CM Punk as far as image is concerned today. On the other hand, as far as headlining a PPV, Hart wouldn't be a good idea, unless there was a bigger star with him. Hart simply could not draw a dime as a headliner. Bottom line. He's a great supporting actor, but not a lead man. He should have been WWF Champion as many times as he was, but he needed that high profile guy chasing him in order for the validation for Hart being champion to work. So for drawing power, he's overrated. Many are fooled because of the reactions he received in Canada when he appeared, but in America and everywhere else, he got a typical reaction for whatever attitude he had at the time.

3) My final factor is actual skill, and this is where Bret Hart is rated properly. He's a great ring technician and many greats recognize Hart as the best technical wrestler in his era. So he's rated properly in this regard.

SO overall, when you look at the grand scope on what I've factored into my thought process, you can see it's real easy to say Hart's overrated, but also easy to say he's underrated due to him not getting enough credit in some areas. But as far as I look at it, Bret Hart is overrated.

 

[Musiq]

Bret is underrated. How many ppl do u know can put on an outstanding match with HAKUSHI!!! Or the match with the 1-2-3-Kid!?!?!?

Ask yourself...do u think that Stone Cold Steve Austin, would've reached the heights he reached without the feud he had with Bret??

As far as him doing the russian leg sweep, and elbow drop etc etc. Every wrestler has their "signature moves" HHH has his knee lift, & spinebuster. Cena has 5moves of doom
Batista has his spine buster. HBK has his forearm, atomic drop, and then he pops back up
Christian does his little back elbow off the 2nd rope etc. etc.

but he still had a resume full of wrestling moves, that he could pass off as the "Man of a 1000 holds" more than Dean Malenko!

 

[Musiq]

Also, not every match ended the same way. Not every match ended with a finisher. I loved bret growing up as a kid, i remember seeing that commercial with the little boy in the hallway and he screams out "BRET!!!" camera zooms in to bret, bret walks back & gives the kid his sunglasses, then walks back through the curtains 2 put on a match only like the Excellence of Execution knew how.

 

[jamesman22]

Well, I feel that he may fall in the category of Hogan. Where a wrestler was praised for everything they did, they cheered for him every time he came out to the ring and gave him tons of respect, but then you see his in ring abilities and they are pretty limited. What Bret Hart was known as was the "excellence of execution" Now I haven't seen very many matches with Bret Hart until I had seen highlights of some of his matches on Raw or Smackdown whenever they had video packages of him. I feel like the fans in Canada should move on past the Montreal screw job. Even WWE has begun to parody it by already ending the Cena Vs. Orton match at summerslam in a screwjob and ending the match between CMPunk and UnderTaker in a screw Job at breaking point in Canada. I only see Bret getting his popularity by that means. Just because of the screwjob. So i guess I think he is overrated.

 

[CKDaimen]

I guess I may as well sound off on this subject, since many in here have and of course, this has stirred many a debate.

For those who say Bret Hart's rated the way he should be... fair enough. It's easy to say that he had things he was really good at and things he didn't fair so well in, but overall, he was a serviceable wrestler and a great overall athlete. HOWEVER, there are numerous factors I weigh when I determine if a wrestler is overrated or underrated.

1) I look at how the wrestler is rated as of right now. In Bret Hart's case, he's got legend status from most of the fan base. I say in this instance, he's severely overrated. Hart is a great wrestler and a definite candidate for being remembered for years to come for his contributions to the wrestling industry, but he's not a legend. In Canada, he is. Because no other Canadian wrestler is at the status that Hart is. Jericho's good, so was Benoit before he allegedly murdered his family and offed himself, but Hart is a legend in Canada. Everywhere else, he's just a solid wrestler during a time of solid athletes. Outside of Canada, Hart is slightly above average. So as far as his rating from most fans compared to how he should be rated, he's overrated by a wide margin.

2) I also factor marketability. Bret Hart was marketable. His glasses would sell like hotcakes everywhere and he was a good, clean guy who wasn't publicly reviled for steroid use or drugs. Hart would be the equivalent of CM Punk as far as image is concerned today. On the other hand, as far as headlining a PPV, Hart wouldn't be a good idea, unless there was a bigger star with him. Hart simply could not draw a dime as a headliner. Bottom line. He's a great supporting actor, but not a lead man. He should have been WWF Champion as many times as he was, but he needed that high profile guy chasing him in order for the validation for Hart being champion to work. So for drawing power, he's overrated. Many are fooled because of the reactions he received in Canada when he appeared, but in America and everywhere else, he got a typical reaction for whatever attitude he had at the time.

3) My final factor is actual skill, and this is where Bret Hart is rated properly. He's a great ring technician and many greats recognize Hart as the best technical wrestler in his era. So he's rated properly in this regard.

SO overall, when you look at the grand scope on what I've factored into my thought process, you can see it's real easy to say Hart's overrated, but also easy to say he's underrated due to him not getting enough credit in some areas. But as far as I look at it, Bret Hart is overrated.

I'm sorry I still don't see how he is underrated, which makes this really a "Is Bret Hart overrated" thread instead of a viable "Underrated/Overrated" thread. Even in your examples, I missed where you can give a good arguement on how he is underrated. You say he doesn't get enough credit in some ways but that can be said for almost anybody. Shawn Michaels doesn't get enough credit in some areas, such as his impact on the 90s and attitude era, but you can't tell me HBK is underrated. Then again, if you tried hard enough you probably could, but in reality, he's not any more underrated than Bret Hart. WAY, WAY more people give Bret's skill credit, and as far as credentials he is not underrated, and his name always gets a reaction to this day. So like I said, the only thing he could be is overrated, which makes this a one sided option.

 

[mvp216]

After going through this topic, it definitely confirms to me that Bret Hart is VASTLY UNDERRATED!

People are going around saying that he isn't a Legend in the U.S.A.? I bet he would get a bigger reaction in front of a U.S.A. audience on Raw than Hulk Hogan would today. People don't understand that Bret was never handed the torch. As much as Hogan helped the WWF in the 80's he hurt it almost as much by 1992 (The Steroid Scandal had turned Pro Wrestling from a good wholesome family product in to a dirty word to keep away from kids). Bret won the title from Ric Flair in an UNTELEVISED MATCH. Bret was THAT GOOD that he TOOK the torch and ran with it for a good 5 years. Nothing was handed to Bret Hart and Vince McMahon didn't MAKE Bret like he did Hogan. Vince was pretty much FORCED to give Bret the belt because he had been getting more fan mail than Hogan himself by the late 80's! Hogan came back and stole what would have been the biggest moment in Bret's career up to that point at Wrestlemania IX and STILL couldn't unseat the Hitman as the top dog in the WWF.

On a world-wide scale, Bret was more popular than any wrestler EVER! In the early 90's Bret was pumping the blood in the WWF. Without him the WWF could have easily folded. The people that came to see the WWF in the early 90's CAME TO SEE BRET HART and ONLY BRET HART! Whereas in the mid to late 80's you came to watch Hogan, Savage, Piper, etc. The whole "he couldn't draw" is completely bogus. He was the TOP draw in Pro Wrestling in the early 90's bar none. In front of a WWE audience today he would be treated as a Legend in the same light as the fans would treat Rock and Austin.

In the ring he was a GENIUS! I don't know why people always talk about this "routine" he would do, he had the most varied and intelligent finishes of any wrestler I've ever seen. Shawn Michaels is my favorite of all time, but I always wished he could put together the finish of his matches (back in 1996) as well as Bret Hart could. Bret had so many classic finishes: against Perfect, Bulldog, Piper, Austin, Shawn, Owen, Diesel, Bam Bam, etc.

As far as the Screwjob is concerned, I blame Bret for not having a sitdown with Vince and Shawn and getting their differences resolved well in advance of Survivor Series. I don't really see the Screwjob and WCW playing into whether he was overrated or underrated though. In WCW he simply wasn't a politician like Nash and Hogan, which is the ONLY reason he didn't have a bigger impact there. You had to go to bat for yourself in WCW at that time.

It is clear to me that his ability to draw is WWAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY underrated, his in-ring work is more often underrated than it is overrated and his mic skills are underrated. The thing I liked about Bret on the mic was that he always had a clear point to make, I feel like a lot of the top guys just ramble on the mic without really saying anything. Bret Hart made it on the freakin Simpsons during their most popular years for Christ's sake! I don't think anybody in this topic understands how massive the reaction would be if he were to walk out to the ring in the middle of Raw one night.

 

[Musiq]

Well, I feel that he may fall in the category of Hogan. Where a wrestler was praised for everything they did, they cheered for him every time he came out to the ring and gave him tons of respect, but then you see his in ring abilities and they are pretty limited. What Bret Hart was known as was the "excellence of execution" Now I haven't seen very many matches with Bret Hart until I had seen highlights of some of his matches on Raw or Smackdown whenever they had video packages of him.

U can't be serious..... His ring abilities are "pretty limited"???? & How can u judge on a highlight reel??
I don't think you've seen enough matches if that's the case
There's a reason why ppl can only DREAM about seeing Kurt Angle vs. Bret Hart
& it's because of the spectacular potential that it holds
& it's a shame that we'll never see it cuz it would be not just a "Wrestling Clinic", but a "Wrestling Medical Center" that these two would put together

& I co-sign you mvp216 btw!! real talk!

 

[mvp216]

U can't be serious..... His ring abilities are "pretty limited"???? & How can u judge on a highlight reel??
I don't think you've seen enough matches if that's the case
There's a reason why ppl can only DREAM about seeing Kurt Angle vs. Bret Hart
& it's because of the spectacular potential that it holds
& it's a shame that we'll never see it cuz it would be not just a "Wrestling Clinic", but a "Wrestling Medical Center" that these two would put together

& I co-sign you mvp216 btw!! real talk!

Thanks for the support! I have regularly come to this site for a while now for news, but I happened to see this topic on the side and decided to check it out. Reading what everyone was writing made me decide to register onto the site and post in this topic.

 

[Space Volcano]

I think Bret Hart is properly rated as one of the best ring technicians of all time. I'd put him in my top 10, and he escapes my top 5 due his limited promo skills, his self-ascribed description of himself that he was "the best there ever will be", and for some degree of predictability in his finishing sequences.

 

[TLC]

To me i think he is Rated Correctly, He was one of the Very Best yes, but His Mic Skills werent Amazing, i'm not saying they wasn't good just not at par with his In Ring Ability, plus the fact i often found him predictable, he was still amazing and people still speak greatly of him today so i find him not under rater not over rated. Rated Correctly.

 

[SAVE_YOURSELVES_111]

To me i think he is Rated Correctly, He was one of the Very Best yes, but His Mic Skills werent Amazing, i'm not saying they wasn't good just not at par with his In Ring Ability, plus the fact i often found him predictable, he was still amazing and people still speak greatly of him today so i find him not under rater not over rated. Rated Correctly.

Being a Bret fan, I can agree with that whole heartedly! I think he gets the recognition he so rightly deserves. There are people out there, who try to downplay his legacy, like a bitter 60 year old hack, and people on Message Boards like this one.

But I think he does get the correct recognition from a general consensus of fans, and it shows in how he still gets publicity in his post-career, due to a succesful book, and DVD, and the fact many fans, especially in Canada, want him back.