Bret Hart is back! And he is scoring NXT!

[rge2010]

Bret Hart was recently interviewed by Total Wrestling Magazine and was asked about NXT.

He was extremely complimentary about the performance centre but he gave the NXT trainers 5/10! That is one better than Taker vs Triple H I guess

Bret makes the point that the NXT trainers 'never drew a dime' and he doesn't know how/why they should be training the talent of tomorrow! NXT is doing great and there are some fantastic talents emerging, but does Bret have a point?

For those not aware Bill Demott, Billy Gunn, Joey Mercury train 'in ring' and Dusty Rhodes does the rest (Mic etc).

 

[Wald]

It's a fair enough point I guess.

I mean Dusty is fine for the mic training I suppose, though to be honest the WWE should maybe think of freshening it up a bit with someone from the 1990s or 2000s. When you have the likes of Scott Hall, Jake Roberts or Mick Foley available I feel that you should perhaps try to utilise them more, perhaps in a rotation system so that your guys get a few different opinions and avenues they could try.

That idea counts for more when you realise you have Mercury, DeMott and Billy Gunn as you main trainers. None of them were ever particularly talented in the ring and none of them could draw on their own. So what they have to offer guys like Kevin Owens, Finn Balor and Hideo Itami is beyond me. Again, the WWE has names like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley, Steve Austin and countless others that they could pull in for training sessions with these guys. Use them more.

 

[philipk2011]

Bret makes the point that the NXT trainers 'never drew a dime' and he doesn't know how/why they should be training the talent of tomorrow!

That idea counts for more when you realise you have Mercury, DeMott and Billy Gunn as you main trainers. None of them were ever particularly talented in the ring and none of them could draw on their own. So what they have to offer guys like Kevin Owens, Finn Balor and Hideo Itami is beyond me.

These have to be the two stupidest comments I've seen on here. So what both of ye, and Bret Hart are saying is that unless you've had success you have nothing to pass on to younger stars.

If that's the case then it should be the same for other sports too.

By that logic in football, the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho and Wenger are all bad coaches and have nothing to offer to the game seeing as they were never top players.

You see coaching doesn't have anything and I mean anything to do with past experience. Sure it can help to have been through it before but what makes a good coach is your training and how you relay that to others. Being a top draw or former champ isn't just gonna make you a fantastic coach automatically. It's takes hard work, patience, intelligence and most of all communication skills to coach.

The reason you see DeMott and Mercury etc. training younger stars over the likes of your HBK's and Austin is the simple fact that they are good coaches and the rest are not.

 

[Wald]

Strange analogy to use, given that wrestling is 100% about connecting with the audience and drawing dimes and football is an actual sport. You skipped the other part of my critique too, the part where I said none of the three physical trainers were ever particularly talented in the ring.

That would offset not being able to draw quite a bit in my book but the fact still remains that Joey Mercury has very little he can tell Balor, Owens or Itami about wrestling or drawing. All three of those guys are significantly better in the ring than Mercury ever was and all three have drawn more money than Mercury ever did.

 

[rge2010]

These have to be the two stupidest comments I've seen on here. So what both of ye, and Bret Hart are saying is that unless you've had success you have nothing to pass on to younger stars.

If that's the case then it should be the same for other sports too.

By that logic in football, the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho and Wenger are all bad coaches and have nothing to offer to the game seeing as they were never top players.

You see coaching doesn't have anything and I mean anything to do with past experience. Sure it can help to have been through it before but what makes a good coach is your training and how you relay that to others. Being a top draw or former champ isn't just gonna make you a fantastic coach automatically. It's takes hard work, patience, intelligence and most of all communication skills to coach.

The reason you see DeMott and Mercury etc. training younger stars over the likes of your HBK's and Austin is the simple fact that they are good coaches and the rest are not.

I think you are off your rocker. Did you honestly just compare Wrestling to Football? One is sports entertainment and the other is an actual sport.

Bret actually didn't say they didn't have 'anything' to offer. He just said none of the trainers drew a dime so he is probably suggesting it would be better to get some successful talent in to train the superstars of tomorrow.

The fact is Austin, Foley and HBK etc don't need to bust their asses training talent. They had success so they no longer need to work. Gunn, Mercury and De Mott need the work.

 

[Navi]

He was extremely complimentary about the performance centre but he gave the NXT trainers 5/10! That is one better than Taker vs Triple H I guess

Bret makes the point that the NXT trainers 'never drew a dime' and he doesn't know how/why they should be training the talent of tomorrow! NXT is doing great and there are some fantastic talents emerging, but does Bret have a point?

After watching NXT for the better part of a year now, I would say the coaches there are doing a great job with the new guys. Joey Mercury the guy who "never drew a dime" is the guy who worked with the Shield and brought them along. They've done pretty well for themselves. Not because they imitated him, but the very fact that they were they're own person's and it worked.

When you have the right individuals doing the right things, the coach is just there to help them along and teach them the basics. I would assume that it's up to the wrestlers themselves to bring their own personalities to the ring. That's not something that can be taught to you, it's inherent in each one of us. Mercury, Gunn and co. could coach 100 new wrestlers' some will make it, some won't, all I know is I don't want to see carbon copies of Billy Gunn and Joey Mercury, I want to see what Finn Balor and Kevin Owen can do.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Bret Hart continues to bring the stupid or is it just the bitter. No, this time he sounds stupid and bitter.

Did every popular wrestler that ever laced boots get trained by guys that 'drew dimes'? Was Stu Hart that strong of an earner? How come Bret's brothers didn't succeed as well as he did? Didn't they all get trained by the same 'dime drawer'?

And what does Hart expect? Does he expect WWE to pay Hogan, The Rock, and Stone Cold to train their developing talent? Is this really what Hart wants? Of course not, he just wants to bitch and he thinks he sounds smart in the process.

 

[bioshock]

Strange analogy to use, given that wrestling is 100% about connecting with the audience and drawing dimes and football is an actual sport. You skipped the other part of my critique too, the part where I said none of the three physical trainers were ever particularly talented in the ring.

That would offset not being able to draw quite a bit in my book but the fact still remains that Joey Mercury has very little he can tell Balor, Owens or Itami about wrestling or drawing. All three of those guys are significantly better in the ring than Mercury ever was and all three have drawn more money than Mercury ever did.

hmm I don't think Mercury or any of the other trainers are spending any time training Balor or Itami the basics of how to wrestle. Those trainers would be for new wrestlers in training, kind of like those who would get in Tough Enough.

 

[smalltownfan]

He has a point about Demott and Mercury, although Mercury drew pretty well in his run with Morrison in MNM but that tag team was really about Melina than anyone else. As far as Billy Gunn, he drew huge during his heyday with DX/New Age Outlaws. Demott never drew. As far as Dusty being the one to help with their promos, I love that because Dusty brought a charisma to the mic and was one of the best as far as I'm concerned in that regard.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

I agree with Bret's previous comments about mediocrity like Dean Malenko and Fit Finlay telling elite performers such as Randy Orton and CM Punk what to do, but those guys can certainly help out the newbies in NXT. A Dean Malenko can show an Adrian Neville how to work on an internationally televised wrestling show, if not how to talk, display any physical charisma, or draw a nickel. Once a Neville or Balor gets a couple of main roster years under his belt and holds down his first pay-per-view main event, he can tell the trainers where to go.

 

[Reflection]

A 5/10 from Bret Hart is like a 10/10 from anyone else, so I'd say that's a damn good rating (although he still found points to criticise). Hahaha

Did every popular wrestler that ever laced boots get trained by guys that 'drew dimes'? Was Stu Hart that strong of an earner? How come Bret's brothers didn't succeed as well as he did? Didn't they all get trained by the same 'dime drawer'?

Some guys make it big, some guys don't. Not all former classmates of a famous scientist or an industrialist become as successful as them. That doesn't mean that there isn't any need for knowledgeable, qualified and experienced teachers (especially at the final stage of education).

And what does Hart expect? Does he expect WWE to pay Hogan, The Rock, and Stone Cold to train their developing talent? Is this really what Hart wants? Of course not, he just wants to bitch and he thinks he sounds smart in the process.

Maybe he wants someone that is a combination of: (a) was a good/great draw and has a few noteworthy accomplishments, (b) hasn't reached once-in-an-era super stardom (or didn't make wise savings) like the above names, so would come at cheaper rates, (c) is on good terms with the WWE, so would agree to be a trainer, and (d) himself knows what he is to teach- how to get cheers, how to get boos, how to control the crowd at your fingertips, and so on... People like Edge, Jericho, Christian, HBK, Rowdy Piper, Scott Hall (maybe), X-Pac, Sgt. Slaughter, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Trish Stratus, Booker-T, Kane, RVD. You are about twice my age, I'm sure you can think of more names.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Some guys make it big, some guys don't. Not all former classmates of a famous scientist or an industrialist become as successful as them. That doesn't mean that there isn't any need for knowledgeable, qualified and experienced teachers (especially at the final stage of education).

How are Bill Demott, Joey Mercury, or Billy Gunn not knowledgeable, qualified, or experienced? Because they were not headliners? Because they were not known for bringing in money at the box office or ratings?

Do you realize how bitter and stupid that sounds?

Maybe he wants someone that is a combination of: (a) was a good/great draw and has a few noteworthy accomplishments, (b) hasn't reached once-in-an-era super stardom (or didn't make wise savings) like the above names, so would come at cheaper rates, (c) is on good terms with the WWE, so would agree to be a trainer, and (d) himself knows what he is to teach- how to get cheers, how to get boos, how to control the crowd at your fingertips, and so on... People like Edge, Jericho, Christian, HBK, Rowdy Piper, Scott Hall (maybe), X-Pac, Sgt. Slaughter, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Trish Stratus, Booker-T, Kane, RVD. You are about twice my age, I'm sure you can think of more names.

You named people who have made more money for wrestling companies than WWE's current crop of trainers. Now tell me where the they are lined up to be WWE trainers and where the giant pile of money is sitting to pay then what they would want?

But most importantly, here are some highly successful wrestlers, please provide me with the corresponding draws that trained them:

Andre the Giant
Hulk Hogan
Austin
The Rock
Ultimate Warrior
Macho Man
HBK
Goldberg
Lesnar
Foley
Cena

And then tell how the most recent Tough Enough class are doing since they had Stone Cold as their trainer. Just kidding, Stone Cold was clearly just paid to show up for the camera and talk nonsense.

 

[Reflection]

How are Bill Demott, Joey Mercury, or Billy Gunn not knowledgeable, qualified, or experienced? Because they were not headliners? Because they were not known for bringing in money at the box office or ratings?

If they themselves didn't have the knowledge of how to work the crowd, for instance (doesn't apply to Billy Gunn), or the skills and talent to make it big in the business, what will they teach the rising superstars? Their qualifications and experience are of mid carders at best, jobbers at worst. They have nothing new to teach the NXT talent (like Itami, Steen or Devitt) that they don't know yet (except maybe that they are to kiss the McMahons' ass at every opportunity). In fact, the recruits have more knowledge, talent and worldwide experience than these trainers. Someone like HBK or Y2J has actually been at the top and can guide the rookies about how to reach there as well.

Do you realize how bitter and stupid that sounds?

It doesn't.

You named people who have made more money for wrestling companies than WWE's current crop of trainers. Now tell me where the they are lined up to be WWE trainers and where the giant pile of money is sitting to pay then what they would want?

Most of those guys wouldn't ask for a giant pile of money. That's the difference between them and the Austin's and Rock's. Some of them are available for an appearance every time they are called, some others had to retire untimely from the business they love. They would love to get back in the business in a capacity that would be well paid (well =/= abnormally high) and wouldn't put their lives at stake.

But most importantly, here are some highly successful wrestlers, please provide me with the corresponding draws that trained them:

Andre the Giant
Hulk Hogan
Austin
The Rock
Ultimate Warrior
Macho Man
HBK
Goldberg
Lesnar
Foley
Cena

Tumblr founder David Karp dropped out of high school and his creation was valued at 1.1 billion in 2013. So did Bank of America founder Amadeo Peter Giannini. Steve Jobs dropped out of college. Should all children drop out and study by themselves too? Karp himself says he wouldn't recommend it. Abraham Lincoln had one year of formal schooling. Andrew Jackson didn't have any formal schooling. Doesn't mean every one can drop out after one year or not go to school at all and hope to become President. Thomas Edison was primarily home-schooled, and then joined railroad when he was only 12. Would you try that with your kids and see if they become world famous scientists too? These guys were successful despite not having a great teacher or mentor for guidance- good for them. Doesn't mean that should be the norm for everyone.

And then tell how the most recent Tough Enough class are doing since they had Stone Cold as their trainer. Just kidding, Stone Cold was clearly just paid to show up for the camera and talk nonsense.

I already addressed this argument in my previous post. Some are successful, some are not. Some batches do well, some batches do not. That is no reason to not go for the best options available and feasible, and instead going for part-time sub-par trainers to save money. This is equivalent to parents here sending their children to bad but cheap schools and under-qualified tutors for coaching. Result- some extra savings each year for the parents, but the kids will be at a much bigger loss when they grow up. Similarly, most guys trained by Mercury and Demott (who apparently says stuff like "forget everything you know, and learn things my way") are gonna emerge defective pieces.

 

[Zycho32]

I'm a little surprised that Bret wasn't asked about who he thought the 'best' trainers would be for such a job. You'd think it would be an easy layup in whatever format this took place in.

Actually, let's make this a vital question for the thread- who would be the best trainers for a Developmental Program?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

If they themselves didn't have the knowledge of how to work the crowd, for instance (doesn't apply to Billy Gunn), or the skills and talent to make it big in the business, what will they teach the rising superstars?

I assume they are teaching them what the best in the business did. These are not great secrets that are only known by a select few. They are skills that are easily taught, easily learned but hard to apply in practice.

Are you trolling me?

Their qualifications and experience are of mid carders at best, jobbers at worst. They have nothing new to teach the NXT talent (like Itami, Steen or Devitt) that they don't know yet (except maybe that they are to kiss the McMahons' ass at every opportunity). In fact, the recruits have more knowledge, talent and worldwide experience than these trainers.

Because the guys you mention are not there to develop much. They are there to learn the WWE basics and sell NXT which in turn sells the WWE Network.

I don't know when people are going to realize that NXT is a separate brand more than it is a development warehouse.

Someone like HBK or Y2J has actually been at the top and can guide the rookies about how to reach there as well.

And I'm sure if HBK asked for a job as a trainer, HHH would have to clean his underpants. But he isn't, and neither is Jericho. But that shouldn't stop the "trainees" from becoming superstars.

Seriously, are you sure you are not trolling me?

It doesn't.

Did Bret Hart give you a pair of 15 cent pink sunglasses as a child?

And are you trolling me?

Most of those guys wouldn't ask for a giant pile of money. That's the difference between them and the Austin's and Rock's. Some of them are available for an appearance every time they are called, some others had to retire untimely from the business they love. They would love to get back in the business in a capacity that would be well paid (well =/= abnormally high) and wouldn't put their lives at stake.

Whose underwear drawer are you hiding in that you can claim to know this?

That one convinced me that you are trolling. You're not this stupid.

Tumblr founder David Karp dropped out of high school and his creation was valued at 1.1 billion in 2013. So did Bank of America founder Amadeo Peter Giannini. Steve Jobs dropped out of college. Should all children drop out and study by themselves too? Karp himself says he wouldn't recommend it. Abraham Lincoln had one year of formal schooling. Andrew Jackson didn't have any formal schooling. Doesn't mean every one can drop out after one year or not go to school at all and hope to become President. Thomas Edison was primarily home-schooled, and then joined railroad when he was only 12. Would you try that with your kids and see if they become world famous scientists too? These guys were successful despite not having a great teacher or mentor for guidance- good for them. Doesn't mean that should be the norm for everyone.

I have a bachelors and masters and I have no idea what the hell this has to do with this conversation. Maybe I should have dropped out after a year. If nothing else it would have course corrected my life and kept me from having to sit through your ramblings.

I already addressed this argument in my previous post. Some are successful, some are not. Some batches do well, some batches do not. That is no reason to not go for the best options available and feasible, and instead going for part-time sub-par trainers to save money. This is equivalent to parents here sending their children to bad but cheap schools and under-qualified tutors for coaching. Result- some extra savings each year for the parents, but the kids will be at a much bigger loss when they grow up. Similarly, most guys trained by Mercury and Demott (who apparently says stuff like "forget everything you know, and learn things my way") are gonna emerge defective pieces.

And yet WWE has been churning out talent for years and you continue to watch. Bill Demott is ruining this business.

Seriously, just admit you are trolling and we can have a good laugh and people will not assume you are as clueless as your comments make you seem. Bret Hart is probably would be OK if you decided not to defend him. He would understand and maybe appreciate it.

 

[Skinsley]

Getting over is just getting over. It happens, or it does not.
These trainers are and were excellent wrestlers, it just so happens that none of them managed to get that gimmick to hit on that perfect moment. Because alot of getting over by the looks of it is straight up damn LUCK! Do you think Fandango would have gotten over if it weren't for all the English fans chanting his tune at Mania and the following Raw? Fandango would not even exist anymore if he had debuted a week after Mania.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I get where Hart is coming from. He's mentioned this before when he went from the WWF to WCW and how one of the big differences he noticed right away was that while the WWF had agents backstage who had all been successes in the business, the WCW agents for the most part had never accomplished anything. He found that those agents weren't able to offer up advice that helped his matches in any way. It was the same in WCW's Power Plant, and if you remember, the Power Plant didn't really have the greatest track record of producing talent.

It does seem like the WWE today has taken that page out of WCW's playbook. For all the qualified guys they have on these Legends contracts that basically sit around doing nothing, the ones that are in positions to influence the direction of the company are the ones that didn't have a lot of success themselves.

I hear Jamie Noble is kind of the Pat Patterson of today. Wouldn't someone like Ricky Steamboat (who is an agent), make more sense in that position? I mean who put together better matches? Steamboat or Noble? Wouldn't NXT be a great place for Ric Flair to do a class? Or a Jake Roberts psychology class?

 

[rge2010]

I'm a little surprised that Bret wasn't asked about who he thought the 'best' trainers would be for such a job. You'd think it would be an easy layup in whatever format this took place in.

Actually, let's make this a vital question for the thread- who would be the best trainers for a Developmental Program?

A good question and I guess you have to be realistic about things too. Austin, Hogan, even Bret Hart are not going to be interested in a full time training job because they simply do not have the time, nor need the money.

Then you have recently retired superstars like HBK, Mick Foley, Edge. These three have the experience, success and are at a good age - but again, far too successful to even consider such a full time role.

Kane, Big Show, Henry are coming to the end of their careers but I fathom a guess all are very well paid and will not need to continue in the business.

A few names off the top of my head - well respected and moderate success. Tito Santana, Bob Backlund, Ted Dibiase, Roddy Piper - but these are all over 60 years old.

So on to my 'training team'

Ron Simmons
Remembered by most for his WWE run in the APA, the older heads will remember him from his WCW stint in the early 90s when he was crowned WCW Champion!

Diamond Dallas Page
He a great run in WCW and was over and held a few titles. He is busy with his yoga but he would be wonderful for NXT and helping the talent stay on the 'right course'.

Lex Luger
I think he is partially disabled but I know he has worked with WWE on their wellness policy. He could definitely offer the talent something on nutrition, exercise etc and even on presence, promos etc.

Road Warrior - Animal
One half of the of the most recognised, remembered and respected tag teams of all time. Plus his brother already works for WWE.

Mickie James
I think she would be perfect to train the Divas. Good in the ring and done it all across the Wrestling spectrum.


PS - whoever mentioned Steamboat need to remember that he was an NXT trainer up until 2013 and he quit due to his son getting released.

 

[DCLXVI]

Bret Hart is still very bitter. The argument about the trainers never drawing a dime a little silly, if they did... they wouldn't be trainers. A vast majority of the best wrestlers were trained by guys that "never drew a dime" or were mid-carders at best. That is like saying if you want to learn how to play drums amazingly... you should be taught be a guy who drew a dime. The truth is, most of the best never do. That is why they teach and focus on that. The same applies to coaching and trainers in any sport. He might add that they should add a "backstage politics 101" and "social media ettiquette" trainer.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

As the old adage goes "those who can not do, teach"

Being guys who were great draws would not necessarily make someone a great coach, and vice-versa. Training and teaching are by far their own small world, and its odd that Hart would not know that, since he himself was trained by a semi-main eventer journeyman, and an upper mid-card tag team wrestler from Japan. Not to mention, pretty much the entirety of WWE's main drawing power for the last decade was trained by Danny Davis (no, not even the WM3 Danny Davis) and Rip Rogers.

"NorCal, who the fuck??"

Exactly.

 

[chuckmdubya]

Oh wow, Big surprise Bret Hart doesn't like something.
Fans know that Hart grew up with a certain and strict training regimen. One that brought him great success. He sees that they aren't doing it the way he would, and critiques them.
I don't think his comments on the trainers are accurate. Dusty was one of the biggest independent circuit draws of his era, and got over very quickly when he came to WWE in polka dots. Dermott has long been recognized as a great in ring talent. He was even the guy selected to put Goldberg over in his first match, because of his in ring talent. Billy Gunn had a long career and is still chiseled to this day. It took him a while to get over but when he did, he got over well, even if it was just two words.
He may have a point with Joey, but also we all know that the smaller guys never get a big time push.

Seems like a job Brett would be great at, maybe he wants it, lol.