• Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

Booking vs Burying Part Two: Bray Wyatt Edition

pyrusane

Getting Noticed By Management
A couple of months ago I posted my thoughts on the booking of Daniel Bryan, and discussed how ridiculous it was to suggest he was being buried, you can find that here if you're interested. After tonight's Wrestlemania XXX, I feel the need to address this subject again, and specifically the match between Bray Wyatt and John Cena. I have seen multiple comments on the main site, as well as on other sites, devoted to bashing Cena for "burying" Bray Wyatt at WM30. Apparently people still don't understand what it means to bury someone.

For years, one of the big knocks on Cena from his detractors is that he is almost always in the main event, sometimes even going on after the WWE title match. Last night, his match with Bray was right in the middle of the card, and not having as much of the spotlight on that match allowed him to stretch himself in ways he hasn't had to in years. This isn't about Cena, though, it's about Wyatt. People are saying things like "Why couldn't Cena put Wyatt over? Why did he have to bury him?" Wyatt lost the match, true, but there is a huge difference between losing and being buried.

Last night, Bray Wyatt had his first Wrestlemania match against the standard bearer, the real "face of the company". In that match, Bray was first played out to the ring by the band that performs his entrance music, an honor that he been shared by guys like Triple H, Undertaker, Randy Orton, and CM Punk. Once the match started, he made Cena doubt himself at every turn. Hell, there was more psychology in this match than I have seen in a John Cena match in the last ten years. This isn't a knock on Cena; his matches are formulaic because that's what works.

During the match, Wyatt tortured Cena mentally and physically. For a brief time I actually believed that we might see a shift in the John Cena character. Ultimately, he stayed true to his image, but he showed a glimpse of a darker side that he had to fight to contain. That is more than anyone else has been able to get out of him. Credit that to Wyatt.

People are complaining that Cena was the first person to kick out after Sister Abigail. If someone is going to do it, (and eventually it has to happen), how does having the first person to do it be a 14 time world champion and the top guy in the company weaken the move? It's not like it was Jinder Mahal or Yoshi Tatsu that kicked out, it was John Cena. And that was only after Wyatt had already escaped an STFU and kicked out of an AA.

Losing to a top guy doesn't mean you've been buried. If you want to see an example of someone being buried, did you know that Ezekial Jackson is still employed by the WWE? I had no idea. Curtis Hawkins and JTG both still receive paychecks too. Who knew?

Losing to someone doesn't mean that you got buried by them (unless it's the Undertaker, and it's a Buried Alive match). It's all about how you lose, and what you do along the way. A few years ago, Miz stole a page from the Jericho vs Goldberg WCW playbook, challenging Cena to matches when he knew he wasn't in attendance and then declaring himself the winner by forfeit. After three or four weeks of this, he finally got a real match with Cena, and Cena beat him in less than two minutes. That was a burial, and rightly so. Miz wasn't ready yet, and the whole point of the program was to show him that.

A couple of years later, Miz faced Cena again, defending the WWE title in the Main Event of Wrestlemania, and won the match. People like to point out that he won because of the Rock, and that he was a casualty of the Rock/Cena year-long feud, which is a fair point. Ultimately, however, he can legitimately say for the rest of his career that he beat John Cena to retain the WWE title in the Main Event of Wrestlemania. The fact that he has done nothing of note since then has nothing to do with Cena...Miz got the push, and he still wasn't ready.

Last year, John Cena beat the Rock in the main event of Wrestlemania for the WWE title. This year, Cena fought Bray Wyatt in the middle of the card and barely won. If you think this was a burial of Bray Wyatt, if you believe that he had to go over to get the rub, then you simply don't understand wrestling.
 
I agree that wyatt wasn't buried but why couldn't cent have put him over, even if he just went smack with the chair all the while bray just took it laughing at which point the rest of the family comes in and finally bray kisses cena and hits sister abigail while proving that cena is the monster bray claimed him to be
 
only cena haters told they bury bray. In my point of view its just a match for cena. If bray wins means the fued is over. wwe wont end the fued with just one match. They extend this fued for two more ppvs.
 
I agree that wyatt wasn't buried but why couldn't cent have put him over, even if he just went smack with the chair all the while bray just took it laughing at which point the rest of the family comes in and finally bray kisses cena and hits sister abigail while proving that cena is the monster bray claimed him to be

If WWE is smart, that's for Extreme Rules, or even as far ahead as Over the Limit. An extra month or two of Wyatt Family pressure upon John Cena should in fact make such a fall from grace be more believable.

Believe me, right after Cena won I felt the same level of disbelief and feeling of disappointment... then I thought more clearly on the subject. What has the Cena/Wyatt feud been? Two run-ins and barely a month's worth of interaction. Is that enough of a build-up for anything as monumental as Cena surrendering to his inner demons?
 
Bray wasn't buried. I think he looked quite strong kicking out of the AA and somewhat taking Cena to the limit. I believe he will get a win back at Extreme Rules which will lead to a 3rd match the PPV after. The WM match was actually pretty good. Decent psychology and action!
 
In my point of view its just a match for cena. If bray wins means the fued is over.

I don't think you grasp the heel/face, good guy/bad guy concept. In your "point of view" things are twisted a bit. You see, the feud is not over if Bray wins. John Cena winning the match means the feud is over and that is why he should NOT have won at Mania. It has nothing to do with burying, it's about logic and good storytelling. For the past two months, Bray Wyatt has been putting in great promos. They should have had Cena lose the match in what ever fashion. Be it pin fall loss or even DQ with him hitting Bray with the chair. Had they done that, Cena could then have gone into a sort of funk, possibly losing again on Raw to, lets say Batista and it would be all because Bray is in his head. That could go on for a few weeks and then they can have a rematch at Extreme Rules. Here Super Cena could win the match if this is as far as they had planned the feud to last. But instead they fed the big bad boogieman to Super Cena at Wrestlemania because it's the "show of shows." Now Cena goes back to being "comedian Cena" and Bray continues to come after him, but it won't be the same because no matter what, Cena already "rose above fear" and now it will just be another match for the great John Cena.
 
Ummmm why are people acting as if John Cena makes the booking decisions? All's he does is punch the clock and go to work like the rest of us. It's called pro wrestling, that's what happens. To suggest Bray Wyatt was buried, suggests lack of intelligence. He'll have his moment soon enough. This entire feud was a HUGE stepping stone for him. Just sit back and enjoy the show, stop acting like we know everything. Really we only know what they allow us to know. There is a reason why McMahon is a billionaire, while we as fans are behind a computer screen talking about what he created. DEAL WITH IT lol
 
I agree that wyatt wasn't buried but why couldn't cent have put him over, even if he just went smack with the chair all the while bray just took it laughing at which point the rest of the family comes in and finally bray kisses cena and hits sister abigail while proving that cena is the monster bray claimed him to be

Because Cena ISN'T that monster.

Why didn't Batman kill Joker in Dark Knoght when he more than easily could have? Because it wasn't him.

Why should Cena obliterate his character? This was so much better. By Bray planting that seed of doubt, he won.

Amazing match.
 
I agree. I honestly thought that if Wyatt lost that he'd lose momentum, but that was before the match. I thought the match told an excellent story and Wyatt's shenanigans during the match only reinforced the notion of him as someone to watch.

If various reports are true, it doesn't look like it's over for Cena & Wyatt. Reports allege that Cena & The Shield will be working together in some ways involving The Wyatt Family. I'd say there'll be a rematch between them at Extreme Rules where Wyatt has a chance to even things up.
 
Bray wasnt buried at all, he looked pretty strong against Cena. And props to both of them, made me really think that Cena might acctually take that chair and hit Bray. :)

Btw Bray debuted one year ago or less. In that time he succesfully managed to dominate and win almost everyone including winner of this Wrestlemania in general Danyel Bryan. Dont think that him losing to 14 times World Champion makes him buried at all. Especially when he looked like million buck in there at the biggest stage of them all. :)

And yeah, think feud is far from over. Will be at least some Extreme Rules match here.
 
I don't think it'll even wait till ER, I can see Wyatt getting a victory over Cena tonight, on the biggest rated show of the year.

Bray wasn't buried, simply the decision was made that The Streak was ending - thus they couldn't have Bray beat Cena as well. So they did the next best thing, booked him strongly, allowing his personality to shine and "steal the show" as he has for many of the other PPV's... Mania 30 will be remembered for Brock v Taker and Bryan... but when people look properly, this was when Bray Wyatt truly became a star that might replace Taker one day...
 
I think it may have been a little bit too soon for such a MASSIVE victory for Wyatt. Where does he go from there? He's already beaten the face of the company at Mania in his first year if he beats Cena last night... People need to understand that a loss can do just as much for sombodies career as a win can, if not more (Bret Hart vs Austin at Mania 13, Orton vs Taker at Mania 21, etc) and this is the way the business has always been. The NEXT guy loses to the MAIN guy at Mania and gets his moment the next year.

For everyone who is bitching about this, listen to HHH, stop being such whiny panzies, and bring back the ATTITUDE!
 
I don't think this was typical Cena burying Wyatt. I agree with a few of you that you don't want too much too soon. This didn't hurt Wyatt's stock, in fact it can only help to advance it going forward. What is next? Maybe adding to his family and creating a new, strong faction that holds multiple titles? His character is over and he is poised to become the top heel.
 
There was no way Wyatt was buried. His promos in the build up were all about him not caring about the match result. It's all be about 'Wyatt's got into Cena's head like no one else has' and rightly so. Wyatt didn't come out weak at all. It's probably equivalent to when Jeff Hardy lost to Taker, it was a new level of respect as he'd pushed a legend in ways no one else had.

He'd fallen pray in the build up and there are ways he almost fell. But he didn't, he's a hero. Heroes don't fall. Wyatt will be in the top 5 reactions tonight on Raw. Cesaro, Lesnar, Bryan and The Shield will be the others.
 
I don't think you grasp the heel/face, good guy/bad guy concept. In your "point of view" things are twisted a bit. You see, the feud is not over if Bray wins. John Cena winning the match means the feud is over

I don't think that's the case in this feud. I think it'll last another month at least but all we can do is wait and see.
 
Bray wasn't buried at WM... not by a long shot. However, the loss to Cena didn't likely do Wyatt (or Cena for that matter) any favors going forward either.

The storyline with Cena and Wyatt going into WM was really strong, probably one of the strongest programs on the card in my opinion. Oh sure, WWE had teased a dark side of the Cenation with the whole Kane "embrace the hate" thing a couple years back, but this was markedly different. Wyatt is a completely different animal... psychology and monstrous force in a fairly unique package.

Wyatt could've won at Mania without Cena embracing this supposed dark side. In fact, a Wyatt win could've easily carried the storyline out a lot further. In other words, John stays being "the good guy", doesn't embrace darkness... and loses. Then he's left to wonder, as the announcers will helpfully point out, what if:

What if he did take the chair off Bray's skull?
What if it's not worth it to play up to fans who boo you at every turn?
What if being the good guy just isn't enough when you're dealing with a destroyer like Bray Wyatt?

Those questions and how creative answered them over the following weeks and months would've likely taken John Cena's character to places it was likely never originally intended to reach before. It could've made for great television via a fresh look at a familiar, yet currently overly worn face. Those are the types of character turns that tend to work out the best... Stings metamorphosis from smiling team player to trenchcoat/rafters/baseball bat immediately springs to mind.

WM is mostly about blow-offs and this Wyatt/Cena thing feels no different. The blow off here is that Cena is still "the good guy" who didn't embrace the dark side and successfully protected his legacy. Afterwards he still smiled for the fans, even the booing ones... he hugged the children that were jumping up and down for him in the front row. All is right with the world.

So where does this feud, and Bray Wyatt specifically, go from here? Perhaps we'll get a good answer tonight on RAW.
 
It wasn't buried. The Wyatt's looked good. This story isn't over. It's not a big deal.

Seriously. Wyatt is the heel. Cena was mentally disturbed at points during the match. The match itself was great. Wyatt will continue to feud with Cena and look great doing it. Everyone knows Wyatt has a big future. People just piss and moan because their booking philosophy is based on 1980s win/loss "credibility building" they heard on some shoot interview with a washed up hack telling them about the rasslin bizniss.
 
I don't think you grasp the heel/face, good guy/bad guy concept. In your "point of view" things are twisted a bit. You see, the feud is not over if Bray wins. John Cena winning the match means the feud is over and that is why he should NOT have won at Mania. It has nothing to do with burying, it's about logic and good storytelling. For the past two months, Bray Wyatt has been putting in great promos. They should have had Cena lose the match in what ever fashion. Be it pin fall loss or even DQ with him hitting Bray with the chair. Had they done that, Cena could then have gone into a sort of funk, possibly losing again on Raw to, lets say Batista and it would be all because Bray is in his head. That could go on for a few weeks and then they can have a rematch at Extreme Rules. Here Super Cena could win the match if this is as far as they had planned the feud to last. But instead they fed the big bad boogieman to Super Cena at Wrestlemania because it's the "show of shows." Now Cena goes back to being "comedian Cena" and Bray continues to come after him, but it won't be the same because no matter what, Cena already "rose above fear" and now it will just be another match for the great John Cena.
Cena is a babyface? Hmm, he gets a split reaction, I think he's a guy who just is. I don't think you understand the psychology of this feud at all. This isn't over. Wyatt's point wasn't to beat Cena. It was to show him that he can be ugly. Cena was ugly at points. This isn't over.
 
People need to remember this is a guy who was in his first Mania appearance... Where Fandango and the Shield were last year. Not only did he "steal the show" with the sheer creepiness and great work he did character wise especially the "Garland Greene" moment but he added a new dimension to the notoriously "stale" John Cena... he took him to a place he's never been character wise and Cena losing at Mania isn't a unique thing, he's lost before... but for Bray to do all that and come out of it stronger is a testament to both the excellence of his work and the faith WWE are putting in him... If anything we just saw the next "classic rivalry" born...
 
Bray wasnt buried in any shape or form.. He looked incredibly strong in defeat,so much so looked better than the victor Cena did.. Great job psychology wise being told in the match last night,Cena wasn't quite sure on how to handle it.. This is a great feud going on right now,with ER around the corner I look for Bray to even things up.. This was Bray's first WM match,he did an outstanding job.. The Whole Creepy thing,is awesome
 
Bray isn't buried. A feud with Roman Reigns would be awesome! On the other, it makes sense for him to feud with the top stars in the company and or the authority.
 
The family looked pretty dominant in the win on Raw tonight. Big E. took the fall, but it still goes down as a loss for Cena.

Several people have pointed out that Cena showed cracks in the facade at Wrestlemania, and I think that was the biggest takeaway. He can't just change over the course of one match. This is a metamorphosis that should take time. He should lose control at various times, small cracks that grow larger over the weeks, maybe even months. Bray should continue getting in his head, even as he feuds with others, until he completes the transformation.

Really, the only complaint that I have is the timing of the whole thing. With the feud beginning at Elimination Chamber and the first real match between the two happening at Mania, it feels rushed. Mania is where feuds culminate, not where they begin. On the other hand, however, the Streak was never going to be broken, until it was. This Mania was all about defying expectations, changing directions...maybe the timing for this was actually perfect. Time will tell...

Then there's this:
Bray is buried. A feud with Roman Reigns would be awesome! On the other, it makes sense for him to feud with the top stars in the company and or the authority.

You defended your position well, if by defended you mean said absolutely nothing that adds value to the conversation. It's ok to disagree, but if you're going to do so then at least post a sentence or two explaining why you feel that way.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,735
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top