Becky Lynch needs to be a better heel

Discussion in 'WWE Discussion' started by d_henderson1810, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. @smarkmouth

    @smarkmouth Friendly Neighborhood

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    325
    Maybe not outright, but it's heavily implied. Let's go back a few posts;

    "but you all hate Charlotte so much" seems rather pointed, no? As if we were supposed to be doing something else.

    No argument here. She's probably the best heel in the company.

    So if heel Becky had a better babyface foil to work with she might have gotten over as a heel, but Becky didn't have a good foil, and that's because Becky's a bad heel.

    Okay.
     
  2. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    299

    My point is that some of the greats were able to turn the fans any way they wanted.

    "What matters most is that if the fans push the opposite way than what was expected, then you have to run with it"?

    So, have the tail wag the dog then? Listening to the audience isn't always "best for business", especially when different people want different things.

    So the loudest group and the ones who boo the faces loudest and cheer the heels loudest should be listened to all the time, then?

    Say, for example, the fans had decided to cheer Andre The Giant when he ripped off Hogan's shirt on "Piper's Pit". We might have been denied one of the most talked-about matches in Wrestlemania history.

    What if the fans still cheered Hogan when he turned heel at "Bash At The Beach 1996".?There wouldn't have been an NWO, or plans would have had to change, and we get some watered-down version, with not as charismatic a leader.

    Besides, Einstein, if the fans were the sole determinent to what makes wrestling good, then how come ROH isn't the biggest company in the U.S., and WWE are out of business? How come the original ECW fell over, when it was popular and loved by fans? Have ROH done something wrong that they are behind WWE, or did ECW misstep and stop being entertaining, and so went under.

    No, it is because of economics. All of you people who post on here could stop following WWE tomorrow, and it would still survive and thrive (in fact, I thought a lot of you stopped watching years ago, since all I read is how everything Vince does sucks). WWE needs to do what sells, and not just appeal to internet keyboard warriors. Vince cares about the other 90% of his audience, not the 10% who posts here, as well as sponsors, advertisers, shareholders and WWE Network subscribers.

    Would the fans rather not have had Daniel Bryan have turned heel, since he was still popular when he turned? If the fans were listened to, then we would be getting the same Daniel Bryan we have had for years, which had become stale. Now, we get a fresh character who draws legit heat by banging on about political issues that most fans don't want to hear about.

    I think Becky can be a superheel, and still be entertaining. You can still like and respect her, but now she would be a new character, and it opens new feuds, stories and matches for her.

    If the fan knows so much about how to run a wrestling company, then save up some money and start one. I dare you. Hey, Vince McMahon started with nothing, and worked hard to start WWE and make it the biggest wrestling company, seen globally. He wasn't handed his fortune. So, instead of posting here, work hard, save your money, and start some indy fed. Then you can dictate how a company should be run, and if listening to only the fans 100% of the time is such a good idea.
     
  3. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    299
    Don't get so defensive. Becky Lynch can look after herself, and take on board criticism of her more than you can of her.

    Many of you have no trouble blaming John Cena or Roman Reigns for not pandering enough to you, or for being pushed like they are.

    You are happy to blame other wrestlers when it suits you, or they aren't your faves. But make a criticism of one of your favourites, and you won't hear it.

    Face it, if I used a different name, rather than Becky Lynch, you wouldn't get your panties in a twist and might actually have bothered reading my entire opening post, and how there have been some brilliant heel turns that have turned the crowd as well. But you probably saw the criticism, saw Becky Lynch's name, and stopped reading.

    My points are valid. So you are saying that, over the years, the crowd never changed from cheering or booing a wrestler because of the actions of said babyface-turned-heel. So, people started booing "Macho Man", Andre, Hulk Hogan etc, because their act had gotten stale and not because they did heinous things onscreen. I know you people pride yourselves on being in full control of your emotions, and not letting others actions mean anything to you (there's a name for people like that. They called sociopaths). But it is okay to admit that you were carried away by the actions of a heel, and let it influence you.

    What's wrong? Will admitting that wrestlers have manipulated your emotions over the years mean admitting that Vince McMahon has actually played a part in influencing your emotions by deciding who to turn face and heel?

    Oh, that's right. The fans decide who to turn, and will only accept it when THEY choose to. I forgot who runs things. I thought wrestling fans were people happy to pay money to be entertained and carried away with the emotion of the moment, rather than self-entitled pricks who thinks that they are the sole determinent of what works and what doesn't. The customer is NOT always right.
     
    Psykohurricane55 likes this.
  4. @smarkmouth

    @smarkmouth Friendly Neighborhood

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    325
    All I did was refute your bad take, but please, tell me how it's the rest of us who are getting upset and defensive and upset. Be sure to include more insults.

    Another weak generalization. We're still speaking about a wrestler who has an organic connection to the crowd. As much as I love Roman, that's not the case with him.

    I read your post in full, and you were refuted by other posters on every turn. I'm not going to get redundant and say what others have said. I brought up new points you are YET to even acknowledge.

    Besides, if I were going to stop reading anywhere, it would have been at d_henderson.

    Nope.

    I said none of this. I said a heel is only as good as it's foil babyface. But please, indirectly call me another name. It really shows how rational you are.

    We're well aware that wrestling is manipulated moments to stir emotions, but often that storytelling is weak and the crowd rejects it. Babyface the crowd rejects + Heel the crowd wants to cheer = bad storytelling. Crazy, eh?

    The lifeblood of wrestling is fan reaction, so yeah, they should listen to the fans at the right occasion. Keeping Becky heel despite a groundswell of support from the audience would have been the wrong call.

    If you're going to quote me, please actually discuss what I've said. I might reply if you actually do make a good point. Though be warned I think I'm going to take my own advice on this one and stop reading when I should have.
     
  5. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    2,554
    "I don't mind blow jobs." What?!?!

    Um, no. I see someone who doesn't know what they are talking about completely ignore the possibility that they didn't want to push her heel character too far to see if the fans would rally around the perception that management was holding her back to further prop up Charlotte. How many times do I have to explain this to you?

    It depends on who you were talking about.

    And here comes the patented Henderson rant.

    Because you will always find someone or a small group who is different on the internet. In the beginning of the internet there were fans who would complain that Austin did the same old shit every week.

    She was playing an angry victim. It worked.

    Who is comparing Becky Lynch's talent to that group? Just because someone mentions their names in comparison to her doesn't mean they are putting her on all time top ten lists. She is still in the infancy of her career. She had a questionable short "heel" turn that I believe had another purpose. I don't think anyone can really judge her ability to play a heel based on that.

    So maybe my theory about this so called heel turn wasn't a full heel turn is correct.

    Why do you keep supporting my argument?

    Um, no I think WWE was pushing her. They just are so far over your head in how they "pushed" her that you seem to think she is still playing a bad girl heel.

    Maybe for a short demon based period before he got injured.

    No

    Take that up with them.

    Look, Becky's run will come to an end at some point and you will whip out your internet dick and tell us that we were all wrong to ever enjoy this time. But remember that we are enjoying it and you are complaining. You should just try to enjoy it and know that it is ok to enjoy what someone is doing one day and not enjoy it the next or vice versa. WWE characters are not blow jobs, it is ok to tire of them.
     
    @smarkmouth likes this.
  6. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    299

    I will whip out my "internet dick" and tell you you were all wrong, because I have been proven right, many times in the past.

    Daniel Bryan is right to call WWE fans "FICKLE"! Because, they are.

    If I were Vince, I would rather book for those who stick through the company, thick or thin, who, despite good times and bad, take wrestling for what it is, a bit of fun and not to be taken seriously, and don't rage quit when they don't get their own way one time.

    I have followed WWE for years, even when, in my country, it was nowhere on television, and I had to rely on six-month old copies of "Pro Wrestling Illustrated" to keep up with the latest WWF news. So, I maybe have more appreciation for the product when I have it now on TV and I can access the Network anytime. I also take it, despite any flaws, because, in the end, there are more important things in life.

    You might say that it is okay to tire of things, but if you give up on a simple TV show when you don't like it, won't you then think it is okay to leave a marriage, or a job, or other important commitments, if you give up when you tire of something or someone?

    I will be right and you will all boo Becky in a few months, not because she is playing a heel, but because you are bored and want to instead focus on the next "shiny toy" to come up from NXT. That is why I take most of yours, and others' comments here, with the grain of salt it deserves.
     
  7. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    299

    I will whip out my "internet dick" and tell you you were all wrong, because I have been proven right, many times in the past.

    Daniel Bryan is right to call WWE fans "FICKLE"! Because, they are.

    If I were Vince, I would rather book for those who stick through the company, thick or thin, who, despite good times and bad, take wrestling for what it is, a bit of fun and not to be taken seriously, and don't rage quit when they don't get their own way one time.

    I have followed WWE for years, even when, in my country, it was nowhere on television, and I had to rely on six-month old copies of "Pro Wrestling Illustrated" to keep up with the latest WWF news. So, I maybe have more appreciation for the product when I have it now on TV and I can access the Network anytime. I also take it, despite any flaws, because, in the end, there are more important things in life.

    You might say that it is okay to tire of things, but if you give up on a simple TV show when you don't like it, won't you then think it is okay to leave a marriage, or a job, or other important commitments, if you give up when you tire of something or someone?

    I will be right and you will all boo Becky in a few months, not because she is playing a heel, but because you are bored and want to instead focus on the next "shiny toy" to come up from NXT. That is why I take most of yours, and others' comments here, with the grain of salt it deserves.
     
  8. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    316
    I've been reading the whole saga going on this thread and i have to agree with a lot of d_henderson as written on this subject.

    Yeah, becky was meant to be a heel and the fans turn her face, but something that i watched before mania season started, fans were getting a little bit tired of becky's stick already. Wwe was able to bring fans back with her character after the rumble but their was cracks in the armor already. Now, she got the right opponent to get people cheer but what happens when she get somebody that fans like more then becky?

    The other problem with becky is that for somebody that's supposed to be the most popular character they have, kinda like bryan a few years back, it doesn't translate well as far as merch money or ratings are concern. Fans love to get behind her and cheer for her but not enough to watch her on tv or buy her merchandise and that's the big problem with her. She doesn't translate well to the viewing audience.

    Again it good right now but what happens when one of the NXT women's get called up, will fans turn on her because they forced feed her to the fans like they did pretty much every other stars at that level for years now? Plus her program with the mcmahon's real feel forced and could kill her momemtum as well.

    Anyway, like mention before, fans are fickle and when they get tired of a character or doean't like how a character is booked, they just stop cheering and they move on. Look at daniel bryan as a exemple, he made his debut last year, he got a huge pop for it, then the booking became lame and fans pretty much stop supporting bryan and he had to turn heel to get fans interested again.
     
  9. scott212a1

    scott212a1 Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi everyone does anyone else think if she truly wants to be believable as the man that maybe she should try mixing it up with the guys like nia jax did at the rumble because let's be real she'd be more believable beating up some guys than she'd be more marketable as being the man otherwise she's just a pretty face who's just the top chick and not truly the so called man that they want us to buy into
     
  10. John1122

    John1122 Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    1
    I believe Becky Lynch is doing just fine.
     
  11. @smarkmouth

    @smarkmouth Friendly Neighborhood

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    325
    d_henderson's "argument" was that Becky is a bad heel. You spend the rest of this post saying she's not going to work as babyface. What exactly are you agreeing with? Rhetorical question.
     
  12. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
    Staff Member Moderator E-Fed Mod

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    1,507
    Then you're lost and I'm a sad spider.

    She wasn't doing anything. She was a background character, and she bitched about it. That's exactly what gave her a new character. In a remarkable turn of events, the fans care about the breaking of monotony.

    She turned on Charlotte who has got to be one of the most unbelievable faces in WWE history. Of fucking course the fans would go nuts for that.

    Then the fans'll rally behind the big face superstar because that's how wrestling works.

    I don't understand the question. Becky's whole thing is how everyone turned a blind eye on her. That's extremely relatable. Shockingly that's what fans really want out of face stars, that relatability. If someone came around to knock her down a peg and has good reason yeah fans will dig it because (big surprise) that's why it's a program that doesn't have an ending.

    It's a revolving door of one being on top and then later another. Nothing else to it.

    Care to show the figures here?

    Methinks you're full of shit and "The Man" is in their featured list on wweshop.com.

    Just checked. She's in the top featured in their wweshop. Again, I doubt you know what you're saying here.

    Who gives a shit? Right now she's a hot commodity. It's wrestling, nothing more. Someone will always come in hotter than the one before them. Ultimate Warrior beat Hogan in his prime, remember that.

    Every McMahon angle was forced. Not a fair thing to point out at all. Go back and find me one that wasn't. We put up with Austin/McMahon because Austin gave us the fantasy of a blue collar worker sticking it to his boss. That's it. Rock, Cena, even Hogan, etc couldn't do better. Of course Lynch wouldn't hang with that. Can't put her on the same pedestal as them, could you?

    Internet fans maybe. The rest of us are pretty solid when there's a story/reason behind the characters' actions.

    No the fuck he didn't.

    He was supported and that's why his turn worked. It came out of left field and was still a welcome change because Bryan can play that liberal vegan douche character well. It only worked because fans were still on his side before he kicked AJ in the nuts. That's how a good heel turn works, and that's why Becky's did not.

    It can't be compared because obviously Becky is a fantastic face and nobody is ready to believe Charlotte is.



    Anyways to make an obvious post obvious, Becky isn't a heel and probably can't play a good heel (nobody knows for sure)...and that's okay. There's a long list of superstars who did that very thing and nobody is bitching about them right now. When I see a post about how Ricky Steamboat has no versatility because he doesn't play the villain then maybe we can explore this a bit further but for now, L-oh-fucking-L. Becky is fine, and is killing it in a field that has a huge UFC star running rampant in it. If that's not success I don't know what the hell is.
     
    #37 Spidercanrana, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  13. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    2,554
    When have you ever been right?

    Of course when it comes to something like entertainment. Especially professional wrestling. Who cares? It isn't family, country or religion. It takes sport.

    You think Vince books for those that aren't watching the show anymore?

    Does this explain why you think Becky is "currently" a heel?

    Then why are you bitching about something the rest of us are enjoying?

    Poignant

    My wife just told me she stopped watching Strawberry Shortcake mid way through its second season when she was six. My marriage doesn't have a chance.

    You're absurd. While I admit that fans get their expectations too high at times and some times don't recognize what is going on, the idea that fans should just swallow what they are given by WWE because they gave good entertainment in past is nipple crunching masochistic.
     
  14. Scottchua

    Scottchua Dark Match Jobber

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    That's a pure BS man. Your analysis sometimes smell like a perfume while most stink like a joint.

    Charlotte is the best character for Becky to turn heel. Period. Think about their organic friendship from NXT to their friendship together in Smackdown.

    Asuka would have never pull of this dramatic support for Becky. Imagine this - Asuka vs Becky at Summerslam 2018, and Asuka walks out the championship belt. Would that crowd boo as heavy as Charlotte (who has been the champ 6 times before then?) NO. After Asuka defeat at WM, fans would only gear towards supporting Asuka and Becky would have lost this organic fan support.

    Becky is indeed the female version of SCTA. You cannot expect the exact mannerism, playout that Steve does, and replicate it to Becky. Gimmick - even person to person, varies in the presentation. Let alone it is a different era, and at a different time. Becky is already tuning up the heat as best as she can, with the limitation that "corporate WWE" now sets..
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"