Austin and Rock.....AND Triple H era?

[CKDaimen]

Ok so I was just in a thread about The Rock coming back and someone said that the bad side to this would be The Rock would outshine the current roster so much that it would make everyone look bad. Nevermind the best performer of all time in Shawn Michaels still being there, but I brought up The Game, Triple H. Here was my stance....

Triple H is so undervalued when it comes to his impact this decade. Triple H is AMAZING at capturing the audience and he never fully gets the credit he deserves for that. Whether as a heel or as a face, Triple H has a lot of charisma and IS in the Rock's league and always was. To say otherwise would imply that The Rock was in a league of his own in the year 2000 which is TOTAL BS because we all know that when Austin was out that year, it was the HHH/Rock show. It was NOT just The Rock show. Again, HHH is really forgotten. People always narrow it down to Austin and Rock this and Austin and Rock that, but Triple H was right there with them and does not get the credit he deserves for that.

So what I'm saying is.....why the hell do The Rock and Austin get all the credit? I mean don't get me wrong...I know there was a great supporting main event cast in the attitude era, like The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Kane, etc....but it was not the big two - Rock and Austin...I think it was the big three -Austin/Rock/HHH. I know HHH has his share of haters, but let's be honest. HHH is every bit as good on the mic as Austin. He might not have the same colorful character and catchphrases, but he is as good on the mic, and in my opinion better. Regardless of your opinion, I think that it's plain to see that on the mic, HHH is definitely in the same LEAGUE as both Austin and The Rock. In the ring, he's not for everybody, but he has a great mind for the business and his psychology to me always came out in his matches, especially his big matches. IMO Austin is not better than HHH in the ring...The Rock yes, but not Austin. To this day, I think it's total bullshit and a miscarriage of justice that the Wrestlemania 17 main event was not Rock vs. Triple H. But as we all know by now, Vince McMahon was obsessed with Austin and in my opinion, overpushed him at times even when someone was more worthy at the time.

But I digress. The point of this thread is...why do we narrow it down to Austin vs. Rock and the Austin and Rock era when Triple H was just as valuable during that stretch? And while we're at it, why are so many people not grateful for Triple H still being around, when Austin and The Rock are not? And do you agree with me that Triple H was just as valuable during this stretch and if not, WHY THE HELL NOT??

 

[Blade]

Triple H was not as talented as The Rock. Fact.
Triple H may have been better in the ring and he may have been a better champion, though both points are arguable. But Triple H was never as entertaining as The Rock. Have you ever actually seen any of the Rock's promos? His best ones were the stuff of comic genius. Triple H was never funny without Shawn Michaels. He was always good, sure. But he was never amazing. Let's take a look at some of the Rock's best promos;
[YOUTUBE]Am3rHtFXlZM[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]skJGGwL5iWk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]y92A5fQtzg0&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Triple H has never done anything that entertaining. Triple H was always very good. But without Michaels carrying him, he's not even close to the level The Rock is on in terms of pure entertainment.
But.... I have no doubt that if Triple H had left wrestling when The Rock and Austin did, then everyone would agree with you.

In terms of how "valuable" Triple H was... The Rock was way more valuable. Rock = money. Merch sales, ticket sales, ratings. The Rock made more money in 2000 than Triple H probably ever has. And in case you've forgotten, The Rock was in the the highest rated ever segment on Raw.

The Rock is more entertaining and he made more money for WWF/E. Simple as that. Triple H is great and was in the attitude era. But he was not on the level of the Rock.

 

[CH David]

When it comes to mic skills, the Rock is in a league of his own. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has the mic skills that Dwayne Johnson has. The charisma he had was a spectacle to watch, and his promos always had everyone eating out of his hand, whether he was a face or heel. If you are implying that even Triple H is in the same league as the Rock when it comes to mic work, then you are wrong. The Rock truly was the most electrifying man in sports entertainment. He said, and he backed it up.

Triple H was right up there in the ring with the Rock, but on the mic, not at all. And for you to say that it should have been Triple H vs. Rock at WM 17? Why the hell would you do that, when you had the better feud in Austin vs. Rock? The Rock had great chemistry with Triple H, but he had better chemistry with Austin.

So the Rock was in a league of his own on the mic, and Triple H was on his level in the ring. Not to mention all the merchandise the Rock sold. He had video games created off of his catchphrases, and also had the secondary show named after something he would say. The Rock > Triple H.

Like Blade said, Triple H is very good, but he just isn't on the same level as the Rock.

 

[Slyfox696]

The reason is simple. Because Triple H isn't as good as Austin or Rock. It's the Austin and Rock era because those were the two guys that were driving the business. And we know it was those two because when they left, Triple H was still there and ratings were cut in half in 2 or 3 years, and kept plummeting until John Cena made his arrival in the main-event.

It's the Austin and Rock era. Triple H was simply a roleplayer.

 

[CKDaimen]

But you're missing my point. People always compare Austin to The Rock. They say that's the great rivalry..the great era of the decade. If The Rock is in a league of his own with promos then why does that not include Austinh then? Why is Austin paired with The Rock and Triple H isn't? WHY IS IT THE AUSTIN/ROCK ERA WHEN TRIPLE H WAS JUST AS VALUABLE. THAT IS MY POINT. Yes, Austin sold more merchandise. Yes, Austin had better catch phrases. But the same way there were things Austin and Rock did that Triple H did not do, there were things Triple H did that they did not do. And come to think of it, Triple H could be just as entertaining as The Rock...um...can you say DX???? Which by the way was just as responsible for the Attitude era success as anyone. Damn HHH gets no props

 

[CKDaimen]

The reason is simple. Because Triple H isn't as good as Austin or Rock. It's the Austin and Rock era because those were the two guys that were driving the business. And we know it was those two because when they left, Triple H was still there and ratings were cut in half in 2 or 3 years, and kept plummeting until John Cena made his arrival in the main-event.

It's the Austin and Rock era. Triple H was simply a roleplayer.

You know everyone wants to talk about ratings like that's the only thing to be judged by. Let's say I buy that. Let's analyze this reply.

Let's say I'm right, and it's the big three: Austin, Rock, Triple H. Ok, now let's say Austin and Rock leave and Triple H stays and the ratings go down. Which happened. Fine

Alright, now lets say Triple H and Austin left and The Rock was still around. If you honestly think that from say, 2003 to today, the ratings would be a drastically higher because of one person, that's your right, but I think you are dead wrong.

Lastly, let's say The Rock and Triple H left and Austin was left. Call me crazy, but I just KNOW that the ratings would be basically if not exactly the same. The Whole Austin 3:16 and "What" and all that crap would have run its course and Austin would not be drawing significantly more than Triple H. Furthermore, Austin was still around in 2002 and the ratings were still dropping at a fast rate.

Triple H is officially underrated and I'm hoping I'm not the only one to see this in this thread.

 

[Slyfox696]

But you're missing my point. People always compare Austin to The Rock. They say that's the great rivalry..the great era of the decade. If The Rock is in a league of his own with promos then why does that not include Austinh then? Why is Austin paired with The Rock and Triple H isn't? WHY IS IT THE AUSTIN/ROCK ERA WHEN TRIPLE H WAS JUST AS VALUABLE. THAT IS MY POINT.

Because he WASN'T just as valuable. How is this so difficult to understand?

If he was just as valuable, then a Triple H absence would have been just as hard on business as Austin or Rock leaving. But anyone who would argue that would be out of their mind, because these is ZERO doubt that Austin and Rock were the draws in the Attitude Era. Was Triple H a suitable adversary? Perhaps, but he wasn't the draw. Which means he wasn't as valuable.

You know everyone wants to talk about ratings like that's the only thing to be judged by.

Well, we could also judge PPV buys, merchandise sales, and overall revenue if you wanted.

Let's say I'm right, and it's the big three: Austin, Rock, Triple H. Ok, now let's say Austin and Rock leave and Triple H stays and the ratings go down. Which happened. Fine

Alright, now lets say Triple H and Austin left and The Rock was still around. If you honestly think that from say, 2003 to today, the ratings would be a drastically higher because of one person, that's your right, but I think you are dead wrong.

Yes, they would be. Why? Because The Rock was one of the biggest draws in wrestling history, when he was 100% committed to wrestling.

Lastly, let's say The Rock and Triple H left and Austin was left. Call me crazy, but I just KNOW that the ratings would be basically if not exactly the same. The Whole Austin 3:16 and "What" and all that crap would have run its course and Austin would not be drawing significantly more than Triple H.

If Austin was healthy (like Triple H was), then ratings would have stayed higher than what they did with Triple H.

Furthermore, Austin was still around in 2002 and the ratings were still dropping at a fast rate.

The Austin that brought fans to the show in droves in 1999, was not the same Austin that was in the WWE in 2002.

Triple H is officially underrated and I'm hoping I'm not the only one to see this in this thread.

He's second on all time WWE recognized World Titles held, despite NEVER being a proven big-time draw. Please explain how that is "underrated".

 

[CH David]

But you're missing my point. People always compare Austin to The Rock. They say that's the great rivalry..the great era of the decade.

No I think we got your point. You want Triple H to be in the same league as Rock and Austin, even though he wasn't. Triple H vs. Rock or Austin isn't as good as Rock vs. Austin. Simple as that.

If The Rock is in a league of his own with promos then why does that not include Austinh then?

I'm confused here. For it to be the Austin/Rock era, Austin has to be just as good on the mic? I already said it once, nobody is in the same league as the Rock when it came to promos. Not counting Hogan.

Why is Austin paired with The Rock and Triple H isn't? WHY IS IT THE AUSTIN/ROCK ERA WHEN TRIPLE H WAS JUST AS VALUABLE. THAT IS MY POINT. Yes, Austin sold more merchandise. Yes, Austin had better catch phrases.

Because the Austin vs. Rock rivarly was better? Oh wait, you said it yourself, Austin sold more merch, meaning he was more popular than Triple H. Glad we got that covered.

But the same way there were things Austin and Rock did that Triple H did not do, there were things Triple H did that they did not do.

Use examples that are good and meaningful. Otherwise you have lost me.

And come to think of it, Triple H could be just as entertaining as The Rock...um...can you say DX???? Which by the way was just as responsible for the Attitude era success as anyone. Damn HHH gets no props

Triple H needed a stable to be entertaining. Wow that is just amazing. Yeah, DX was awesome back then. But you know what, he needed other people with him. The Rock got over by himself. He played the crowd perfectly. Sure DX was part of the reason that the Attitude Era was successful, but it got old, they got rid of it. Rock vs. Austin was the rivalry of the Attitude Era. That is why Triple H gets no props. The Rock and Austin were the main stars, with Triple H playing second fiddle.

 

[Blade]

You know everyone wants to talk about ratings like that's the only thing to be judged by. Let's say I buy that. Let's analyze this reply.

Let's say I'm right, and it's the big three: Austin, Rock, Triple H. Ok, now let's say Austin and Rock leave and Triple H stays and the ratings go down. Which happened. Fine

Alright, now lets say Triple H and Austin left and The Rock was still around. If you honestly think that from say, 2003 to today, the ratings would be a drastically higher because of one person, that's your right, but I think you are dead wrong.

Lastly, let's say The Rock and Triple H left and Austin was left. Call me crazy, but I just KNOW that the ratings would be basically if not exactly the same. The Whole Austin 3:16 and "What" and all that crap would have run its course and Austin would not be drawing significantly more than Triple H. Furthermore, Austin was still around in 2002 and the ratings were still dropping at a fast rate.

Triple H is officially underrated and I'm hoping I'm not the only one to see this in this thread.

*facepalm*
It's pretty much proven that Austin and The Rock were able to draw on their own, and it's beyond moronic to try and debate otherwise.
If Austin or The Rock had been on their own, then perhaps ratings would've dropped a bit, as WWE's creative staff isn't quite as edgy as the attitude era. But the ratings wouldn't have bombed like Triple H made them do.
Both The Rock and Austin carried WWE programming as faces of it at one point or another and they kept the ratings up. The only time that Triple H drew as a champion was when he was working with, you guessed it, The Rock or Austin. On his own, he failed until Cena and Batista made the save.

But you're missing my point. People always compare Austin to The Rock. They say that's the great rivalry..the great era of the decade. If The Rock is in a league of his own with promos then why does that not include Austinh then? Why is Austin paired with The Rock and Triple H isn't? WHY IS IT THE AUSTIN/ROCK ERA WHEN TRIPLE H WAS JUST AS VALUABLE. THAT IS MY POINT. Yes, Austin sold more merchandise. Yes, Austin had better catch phrases. But the same way there were things Austin and Rock did that Triple H did not do, there were things Triple H did that they did not do. And come to think of it, Triple H could be just as entertaining as The Rock...um...can you say DX???? Which by the way was just as responsible for the Attitude era success as anyone. Damn HHH gets no props

Because Triple H was not just as valuable. Any very talented wrestler could've been put in Triple's spot as number 3 guy and the attitude era would've gone exactly the same. Hell, some even argue that Triple H wasn't even the 3rd guy of the attitude era, cases can be made for Undertaker, Mankind or even Kurt Angle.
The Rock and Austin were huge draws. Triple H was not. That's why he's not as valuable.

 

[CKDaimen]

Ok you're all full of crap. Stinky, nasty crap.

CH David Quote:
"No I think we got your point. You want Triple H to be in the same league as Rock and Austin, even though he wasn't. Triple H vs. Rock or Austin isn't as good as Rock vs. Austin. Simple as that."

What's this "we" business? Speak for yourself. This is the type of conformist thinking that has HHH being this underrated to begin with. Everybody says Austin and Rock carried the company so everyone goes along with that lie.


CH David Quote:
"I'm confused here. For it to be the Austin/Rock era, Austin has to be just as good on the mic? I already said it once, nobody is in the same league as the Rock when it came to promos. Not counting Hogan."

I'm confused at this reply as well, so I guess we're both confused. My thread is about why it is not the HHH/Rock/Austin era NOT what it takes to be the Austin/Rock era.


CH David Quote:

"Because the Austin vs. Rock rivarly was better? Oh wait, you said it yourself, Austin sold more merch, meaning he was more popular than Triple H. Glad we got that covered."

Austin sold more merchandise than Triple H not just because of his character but because he was a babyface. If selling merchandise is all that matters in getting artistic credit for an era as well as credit for ratings, then John Cena better have a lot less haters starting right this very moment.

CH David Quote:
But the same way there were things Austin and Rock did that Triple H did not do, there were things Triple H did that they did not do.
"Use examples that are good and meaningful. Otherwise you have lost me."


Ok, let me attempt to help you. Triple H had a longer career, had MAJOR success both by himself AND in a successfull group, he has won more World Titles than both of them by far, and he was able to do something that Rock and Austin couldn't do....remain a heel or face whenever he wanted to. Austin's heel career never took off, even after the McMahon swerve of 2001. The Rock first didn't last as a heel, but after a while, the beloved Rock that we all like to remember got the John Cena treatment. That's right, The Rock, The Great One got the JOHN CENA TREATMENT (And you can tell it pissed him off, lol) He got BOOED when he was supposed to be CHEERED around 2002 if I'm not mistaken. My point being, Triple H was never BOOED when he was supposed to be cheered and never CHEERED when he was supposed to be booed. He was a better heel than both of them, although The Rock did have a stellar period as a heel, it was very brief in comparison to Triple H, as The Rock eventually got cheered several times when he was supposed to be booed. You then might say, "that's because the character was so awesome..." but the point is, HHH had an awesome character and got booed but could still be cheered if he ever wanted to turn face. So, to answer your question, more world titles, more career longevity, and more heel longevity, and more diversity as far as getting other people over around him, like DX. HHH is like Rob Thomas....in a group or solo, it doesn't matter.


CH David Quote:
"Triple H needed a stable to be entertaining. Wow that is just amazing. Yeah, DX was awesome back then. But you know what, he needed other people with him. The Rock got over by himself. He played the crowd perfectly. Sure DX was part of the reason that the Attitude Era was successful, but it got old, they got rid of it. Rock vs. Austin was the rivalry of the Attitude Era. That is why Triple H gets no props. The Rock and Austin were the main stars, with Triple H playing second fiddle."

BS, BS, BS. Triple H's role was like Ric Flair in WCW. You don't see people calling it the Sting and Dusty Rhodes era just because they were the two biggest babyfaces. That's pretty much what you guys are doing. Rock and Austin were popular, we get it. They were both HUGE FACES through MOST of the attitude era. Triple H was the heel. OF COURSE he wont sell the merch and what not. But he was still JUST AS VALUABLE. Think back. Triple H was the MVP of 2000. Not second fiddle, not filling in for an injured Austin, but the MV fucking P. Ask anybody AT THE TIME and they would agree. Now everybody has a short memory and all of a sudden from 1998-2002 it was Austin/Rock only. All I'm saying is, don't rewrite history. HHH was the number 1 heel, a great champion, and the fact that the ratings were strong during all of that gives him JUST AS MUCH CREDIT.

Ok, now Sly.

SlyFox696 Quote:
"Because he WASN'T just as valuable. How is this so difficult to understand?"

Because the ratings were just as strong with him as champion and he was extremly over at the time. Being champion during the era in question multiple times and being over and continuing to draw....yes, that makes it pretty difficult to understand.

SlyFox696 Quote: "If he was just as valuable, then a Triple H absence would have been just as hard on business as Austin or Rock leaving. But anyone who would argue that would be out of their mind, because these is ZERO doubt that Austin and Rock were the draws in the Attitude Era. Was Triple H a suitable adversary? Perhaps, but he wasn't the draw. Which means he wasn't as valuable."

There is no way to prove it, but I know that Austin and Rock would not still be drawing attitude numbers or anywhere near it if the other two of the big three had left. Since as I said, there is no way to prove that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.


SlyFox696 Quote:"Yes, they would be. Why? Because The Rock was one of the biggest draws in wrestling history, when he was 100% committed to wrestling."

So was Hogan, but he did not draw in 1993 and he did not draw in WCW until the nWo was created. Point being, just because you were a draw at one time does not make you a draw forever. You need GOOD WRITING. Good CHARACTER refreshment, and a great cast to work with.

SlyFox696 Quote:
"If Austin was healthy (like Triple H was), then ratings would have stayed higher than what they did with Triple H."

And that brings us back to you being full of dirty, stinky, nasty, crap.

SlyFox696 Quote:
"The Austin that brought fans to the show in droves in 1999, was not the same Austin that was in the WWE in 2002."

And I'm sadly assuming that this was supposed to help your case?


SlyFox696 Quote:
Triple H is officially underrated and I'm hoping I'm not the only one to see this in this thread.

He's second on all time WWE recognized World Titles held, despite NEVER being a proven big-time draw. Please explain how that is "underrated".


Simple, because he does not get credit for an era in which he had just as many main events, just as many if not more title reigns, and had an awesome character. And then people say things like The Rock returning would show how he is way above everyone on the roster, when he was never FAR ABOVE Triple H, who is still there.

Wrestling is dying. Fans are changing. It has nothing to do with HHH being there or Austin and Rock not being there. But that's all I got to say, I mean, if nobody agrees with me on this thread then that just shows me that the Wrestlezone threads are not as big and diverse as I thought because I assure you, millions of intelligent wrestling fans who were actually watching the attitude era knows exactly where I'm coming from on this.

 

[Slyfox696]

Because the ratings were just as strong with him as champion and he was extremly over at the time. Being champion during the era in question multiple times and being over and continuing to draw....yes, that makes it pretty difficult to understand.

Being the champion doesn't mean you are the draw. Those are two entirely separate concepts.

There is no way to prove it, but I know that Austin and Rock would not still be drawing attitude numbers or anywhere near it if the other two of the big three had left. Since as I said, there is no way to prove that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

This is false, as we most CERTAINLY have a way to prove it. Triple H was a nobody when Austin took ratings from low 3s to 5s and 6s. Triple H was a midcarder in 1998, so to say he was responsible for Austin's drawing ability is absurd.

Furthermore, Triple H and Rock were BOTH in the main-event...and when Rock left to go make movies, Triple H couldn't carry the ball by himself.

The question isn't whether Rock or Austin or Triple H can draw now...we just have to ask if they could draw without each other. We know that Austin could draw with HHH, and HHH couldn't draw without Rock...so what else do we need to discuss?

So was Hogan, but he did not draw in 1993 and he did not draw in WCW until the nWo was created.

Uhh, this is false. From the moment Hogan stepped in WCW, they started turning a profit. They were bleeding money in the first half of '94, and were making profit at the end of '94.

And I'm sadly assuming that this was supposed to help your case?

Considering the whole point of your thread was to try and put Triple H on the same level as Austin, absolutely. If Austin had been healthy in 2002, he would have been drawing big time, and we know this because of what he was doing in 1998 and 1999. On the other hand, we had a healthy Triple H who couldn't draw, no matter how healthy he was.

Simple, because he does not get credit for an era in which he had just as many main events, just as many if not more title reigns, and had an awesome character.

Yes, because like has been said, you could have inserted many guys in there and accomplished what Triple H did.

Heck, the WWF did. Both Undertaker and Mankind were every bit as instrumental in the Attitude Era as Triple H was...but no where near as important as Rock or Austin.



Your whole point is that Triple H was on the level of Rock and Austin, when it's very clear he was not. THAT is what is "dirty, stinky, nasty, crap."

 

[drummerboy144]

Is like the rock said in his promos "i will make your candy ass famous" and thats what he did the rock made hhh more famous, dont get me wrong hhh was a great heel one of the best, and he made a great rival for the rock and austin but if it wasnt for that he wouldve been just another dude maybe decent but not great, he is now one of the best heels of all time but not in rock and austin level, just to give one more example wwe sucks rigth now and he is still around, he is just not good enough to make others watch like rock or austin would

 

[CH David]

Ok you're all full of crap. Stinky, nasty crap.

Are you a child? You seem childish with this.

What's this "we" business? Speak for yourself. This is the type of conformist thinking that has HHH being this underrated to begin with. Everybody says Austin and Rock carried the company so everyone goes along with that lie.

Fine, I apologize to the mods, but how about this. I GET YOUR FUCKING POINT!!!!!!! Happy?

I'm confused at this reply as well, so I guess we're both confused. My thread is about why it is not the HHH/Rock/Austin era NOT what it takes to be the Austin/Rock era.

Your statement was stupid then.

If The Rock is in a league of his own with promos then why does that not include Austinh then?

This is what I was replying to, and I was asking a question. So you aren't even adhering your own thread.

Austin sold more merchandise than Triple H not just because of his character but because he was a babyface. If selling merchandise is all that matters in getting artistic credit for an era as well as credit for ratings, then John Cena better have a lot less haters starting right this very moment.

Firstly, the nWo was a heel stable and they sold a shitload of merchandise. So you can kiss that excuse goodbye. People would buy the merch they wanted. Austin was the face, the fucking face of the Attitude Era. Triple H wasn't. Rock was right behind Austin. Triple H was further behind the Rock.

Ok, let me attempt to help you. Triple H had a longer career, had MAJOR success both by himself AND in a successfull group, he has won more World Titles than both of them by far, and he was able to do something that Rock and Austin couldn't do....remain a heel or face whenever he wanted to. Austin's heel career never took off, even after the McMahon swerve of 2001. The Rock first didn't last as a heel, but after a while, the beloved Rock that we all like to remember got the John Cena treatment. That's right, The Rock, The Great One got the JOHN CENA TREATMENT (And you can tell it pissed him off, lol) He got BOOED when he was supposed to be CHEERED around 2002 if I'm not mistaken. My point being, Triple H was never BOOED when he was supposed to be cheered and never CHEERED when he was supposed to be booed. He was a better heel than both of them, although The Rock did have a stellar period as a heel, it was very brief in comparison to Triple H, as The Rock eventually got cheered several times when he was supposed to be booed. You then might say, "that's because the character was so awesome..." but the point is, HHH had an awesome character and got booed but could still be cheered if he ever wanted to turn face. So, to answer your question, more world titles, more career longevity, and more heel longevity, and more diversity as far as getting other people over around him, like DX. HHH is like Rob Thomas....in a group or solo, it doesn't matter.

So because Rock became so popular as a heel he became a face, that makes Triple H just as good? Because Triple H could stay one or the other? Well I suppose you can make an argument that Triple H plays his cerebral assassin character well. But I don't see how that qualifies Triple H as in Austin or Rock's league.

Ahh so more World Titles when they are passed like hot cakes, hello Edge has 9 in what, 3 years? Wow big accomplishment for Triple H to be up there in reigns. More career longevity, I may give you that one, but only because the Rock was smart enough to make the switch to Hollywood, making more money and not putting as much stress on his body. Heel longevity, Orton has been heel for the past what, 4-5 years? Does that put him in the same league or up there with the Rock?

BS, BS, BS. Triple H's role was like Ric Flair in WCW. You don't see people calling it the Sting and Dusty Rhodes era just because they were the two biggest babyfaces. That's pretty much what you guys are doing. Rock and Austin were popular, we get it. They were both HUGE FACES through MOST of the attitude era. Triple H was the heel. OF COURSE he wont sell the merch and what not. But he was still JUST AS VALUABLE. Think back. Triple H was the MVP of 2000. Not second fiddle, not filling in for an injured Austin, but the MV fucking P. Ask anybody AT THE TIME and they would agree. Now everybody has a short memory and all of a sudden from 1998-2002 it was Austin/Rock only. All I'm saying is, don't rewrite history. HHH was the number 1 heel, a great champion, and the fact that the ratings were strong during all of that gives him JUST AS MUCH CREDIT.

You can call it BS all you want. Doesn't make it true. When Triple H was getting his major heat, where was he? He was in the McMahon Helmsley Faction, and he was in Evolution. Those were his best heel times. He couldn't do it on his own. Oh wait, you might say when he went against HBK, well he got that heat because HBK had just come back, and attacked his best friend.

Did I say that he wasn't the #1 heel in 2000? I'm pretty sure I didn't Let me check. Nope, didn't say it. I meant to post that he was, but I left it out. Oh well. But never said he wasn't. He did a damn good job at it. But he gets left out because he played second fiddle to Rock and Austin. Are you that daft to not understand that? It doesn't matter if he was the best heel in 2000, he wasn't on the same level as Rock and Austin. Rock is/was the most electrifying man in sports entertainment, Austin was the face of the Attitude Era, Triple H was just the heel people wanted to see get beat.

Wrestling is dying. Fans are changing. It has nothing to do with HHH being there or Austin and Rock not being there. But that's all I got to say, I mean, if nobody agrees with me on this thread then that just shows me that the Wrestlezone threads are not as big and diverse as I thought because I assure you, millions of intelligent wrestling fans who were actually watching the attitude era knows exactly where I'm coming from on this.

So we aren't diverse because some people don't agree with you? Well shit I guess all 15,498 need to agree to be diverse. Wait, being diverse is liking other things, so you want the opposite. You want people to conform to your thoughts. People don't think Triple H should be part of the Austin/Rock Era title. But I guess we are full of crap to think that.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm of the opinion that Rock and Austin's best matches were against HHH and not each other but that's not relevant to this particular discussion. Rock and Austin were the figureheads of the Attitude Era and HHH is grouped with Undertaker and Mankind in that they were important but not so important. It's hard to say during his peak if HHH was a good draw because Rock and Austin were always there. Even when Austin was out in 2000, the Rock was still there.

And there were plenty of times where HHH was cheered when he was supposed to be booed. When he faced Steiner, I'm sure the crowd was booing him more than HHH. How does the rating still being strong give HHH credit when Rock and Austin were still there? We saw how the ratings were when HHH was the main guy after Rock and Austin left and that further proves that HHH isn't a great draw and isn't in the same league as the other two.

 

[patdsez]

I'm jumping in here. Triple H is indeed as valuable as The Rock and here's why - without Triple H there is no Rock. Every great babyface needs a great heel and HHH carried The Rock to great matches and last time I checked this was professional wrestling we're talking about here. Without Hunter there's no ire for The Rock and as far as Rock being the greatest mic worker of all time - you're crazy. The Rock is a catchphrase machine - more often than not he said the same ten things in every promo and maybe switched them up a little bit and if you think calling a guy "hermie" or making an idiot dance around is high comedy than those are your issues to work out. Hunter always cut great promos - promos that moved storylines along, Rock's promos were always cut in spite of a story. It was all about The Rock. Triple H was more valuable to the product as a whole than Rock was. Rock made a lot of money - absolutely, no question about it, but Rock made Rock money - Hunter made WRESTLING and WWE as a whole a better and made wrestling and WWE money. He made it amore entertaining place and for those of you saying he was carried by Shawn you're nuts. Hunter's greatest run came when Shawn was sitting at home. In short you don't have Hulk Hogan without Andre the Giant and you don't have the Rock - this Rock that you all salivate over - without Hunter. Here's another thing if Rock is better on the mic than Hunter it was only by a small margin (Rock was all flash and Hunter all substance), but in-ring Hunter was fifty times the worker than Rock was. To suggest that Hunter wasn't the draw is also foolish - who were either of these guys (Rock and Austin) feuding with if not for Hunter. People pay just as much to see the bad guy get beat up as they do to watch the face beat him. It is so ignorant to think that if Hunter wasn't there as the foil either one of these guys would have been as successful.

 

[JJYanks121]

It is tough to be revered when you play the heel. For almost 2 years, the top heel was Mr. McMahon. From Wrestlemania 14 through the whole higher power storyline, McMahon was the top heel to Austin's top face. When McMahon's star faded, Triple H's star rose as top heel. Undertaker's heel run abruptly ended when he left with an injury, and the Corporate Ministry was disbanded by then. When Triple H was revealed as Stephanie's husband and then she revealed herself to be on his side, followed soon by McMahon himself in a match where, for the first time ever, the heel walked out of Wrestlemania as champion. At that point, HHH was on top. Granted, Austin was out with an injury as well as Taker, but the McMahon Helmsley era maintained quality ratings and obviously HHH had a lot to do with it.

While the Rock was the face of 2000, HHH was the heel of 2000. Programming was driven by Rock's promos and HHH's dastardly acts. I'm not going to argue whether you will look back fondly on this time at HHH, but the fact is, he was all over programming with a heel version of DX called the McMahon/Helmsley faction. Perhaps in 20 years, he will be looked at like his idol, Ric Flair, who was the consummate heel his whole career, but for now, there's hate towards him by some. However, you have to give credit where credit is due. He did some great heel work back then. Being the top heel doesn't mean selling merchandise or being popular. It means being so hated that whoever takes you on gains that much more in popularity because the fans are so anxious to see you get beat. If he's fighting the Rock, you buy Rock shirts and armbands to show your support because not only do you love the Rock and want him to win always, but you want him to win even more because of your utter hatred for HHH. That's the sign of a quality heel and HHH back then did it well.

Remember when Hulkamania was dying, but a former patriot turned turncoat won the WWF title? The house popped that night like almost never before when Hogan came out to defend his country's honor. People liked Hogan, but even more, they hated Slaughter and his crew at that time and wanted nothing more than Hogan to win and raise the stars and stripes. THAT is what a heel does, and in terms of importance, HHH is the second best heel of the attitude era to McMahon himself. Rock and Austin and then Mankind would be top faces, but HHH's heel run cemented him as a top player for years to come. I'd argue that his ability to garner hate, maybe have even raised the popularity of Austin or Rock when they were facing him that much more.

 

[Sully]

These people are all idiots. Triple H is definetly...absoultley in the Rock and Austin's league. He is probably beter then both of them! For one, Triple H is still in the buisness entertaining his wwe fans, Austin and Rock are not entertaining there wwe fans, and austin isn't entertaining any fans. If Austin and Rock were beter, then they'd still be wrestling today? How can somebody be beter then someone whos lasted longer. And Triple H has won more world championships then they have! Triple H is on the burge of passing Flair's record even with 13 champion reigns. I beleive he'll bypass flair by the end of his carrer, and his way younger then flair. Triple H didn't selfishly leave his company to make it on his own acting. Austin didn't even do anything the past 7 years except show up on raw a few times and piss off a bunch of religious people with that 3:16 crap, I'm not religious though, I just though it was pointless. HHH has had more exciting feuds, not that Austin and The rock havn't had some of the best feuds in history, HHH had way more intense feuds and is still feuding, not to metion he's part of one of the most loved and hilarious tag teams, and has had a fun character featuring a birtish blue blood, to a backstabbing brilliant heel, to a rebel againts the company. And don't forget he has been in the second most hell in a cell matches of 8 and winning 6 of them. And in one of the first tag team hell in a cell matches. I'd say Triple H is the one whos in the league of his own. You people are all idiots.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

That's B.S. Triple H is so undervalued when it comes to this subject. Triple H is AMAZING at capturing the audience and he never fully gets the credit he deserves for that. Whether as a heel or as a face, Triple H has a lot of charisma and IS in the Rock's league and always was.

Absolutely hysterical.

Just for the benefit of those wondering where this quote from, CKDaimen tried to rudely derail the thread in the General WWE section on The Rock's return and take it off topic. The thread got moved here, because it wasn't a Current Event topic. But I am responding to that post in here, in this thread.

To be honest, I'm glad the Admins kept the thread in here after all, after reading those remarks from you, CK.

Triple H is absolute shit compared to the Rock. Triple H may be a better technical wrestler in the ring, but as far as being on the mic ... The Rock absolutely owns Triple H in every conceivable way possible.

As a matter of fact, one could very much argue that Triple H wouldn't even be as despised as a Heel, if it weren't for The Rock's mic work in getting him over with the audience.

The Rock could make things up in an instant-- he was a master at improvisation, unlike Triple H. All of Triple H's interviews are heavily scripted, and anyone with a set of ears can tell that. All of his words are unoriginal, bland, and completely generic ... unlike The Rock. His emotions come across as completely forced.

If you want to talk about ring skills, then fine. That is a topic open for debate.

You want to talk about mic skills ... then there absolutely is zero comparison between the two. Triple H is absolutely nowhere near The Rock's league on the mic. Nowhere.

 

[donnelllangs]

I am one person who hates triple h but I must say that the triple hater is up there with the rock and austin. I can remember when the rock had a hard time beating triple h at a ppv and austin comes in to help the rock win. The rock was always the best on the mic. The rock also got over with that people's elbow which I still can't believe because when he first started doing it. I was like what the hell but it got over. If you can remember, the people did start getting tired of the rock. They started booing him. The rock does have a lot of years in wresting. He came into the wwe in 1995 or 1996. He made an immediate impact on the audience but he started to get boos because when the nwo came to the wwe, the rock only had what 6 years in the wwe and challenged hogan to an icon vs icon match. People didn't like that but hogan was ready to pass him the torch and he did because the rock is doing what hogan did. He went to hollywood for a while, came back and did some wrestling, he had to stay on top so he added a new catch phrase which I say that he stole from scott hall. The catchphrase just bring it. Scott Hall used to say don't sing it bring it. The rock also stole the sharp shooter form Bret Hart. The rock also stole some wrestling style from stone cold which John Cena is who I think is like. John Cena is a stone cold and the rock mixed. He tries to talk on the mic like the rock and he wears a cap, t-shirt and shorts like stone cold but what those to stole from stone cold is the fast pace movement in the ring. What everybody stole from stone cold is setting up there moves from behind. Austin started that move. However back to triple h, he will be on top from here on out. I mean he got the mcmahon's in his back pocket. When you get hot in the business he knows how to cool you off. Just ask booker t. lol. He is the james brown of wrestling. He is the hardest working man in the business. Now if the rock comes back, the ratings will go up some probably in the 4's but don't expect the 5's. After a while it will go back down because the creative team can't put anything together nor can the other wrestlers create their characters like the rock, stone cold or triple h can. Also the rock's merchandise didn't sell the way Stone cold's did. Stone cold is being compared to hogan. The rock nor triple h is no where in that mix. So yeah even though I hate triple h's politics in the back and how he don't want some other wrestlers to shine, he is up there with the rock and stone cold whether we like it or not and with the mcmahon's he is bigger.

 

[amar1212]

this thread is so pointless..i believe u did not watch the attitude era....comparing Triple H to the Rock/Austin is like comparing Soulja boy to Tupac/Biggie..he needed someone like Shawn to put him over. and he struggled when Shawn left..and then guys like autin and rock had to put his ignorant ass over.

 

[amar1212]

this thread is so pointless..i believe u did not watch the attitude era....comparing Triple H to the Rock/Austin is like comparing Soulja boy to Tupac/Biggie..he needed someone like Shawn to put him over. and he struggled when Shawn left..and then guys like autin and rock had to put his ignorant ass over.

 

[Athena]

I might be the only one in this thread who agrees with the TC, but anyone who thinks that the Rock is so superior to HHH and contributed so much more is ignorant and blind.

A lot of people are just saying that "ROCK WAS SO MUCH MORE ENTERTAINING OMG LOOK AT THESE PROMOS HHH CAN'T DO THAT." Good. It wasn't his job as a heel to make people laugh or entertain them whatsoever. His job was to make people hate him as much as he could, and he did that better than anyone I can think of in the past decade. All he would have to do is get into the ring and run a simple promo, and the heat he would draw with his arrogant and smug attitude was tremendous.

Sure, the Rock was more entertaining than HHH when they were together in the early 2000s, but then again it wasn't a battle of who was more entertaining. Are HHH's mic skills at the same level of the Rock's? No, I don't think anyone's were or ever will be as good as or better than the Rock promo wise, but HHH was damn close.

Let's use a modern example with Cena-Orton. Now, the face here, Cena (rock or austin) has his catchphrases, is pretty good on the mic, but is basically the stereotypical good guy running around saving the day. You can argue that Austin and the Rock were anti-heroes, but in that case they're doing the same thing but in different ways. Do you think that anyone would give a damn about Cena, Austin, or the Rock if there wasn't a dynamic heel (Orton/HHH) to feud with? Without them, they'd have nothing to do but sell merchandise or go into squash feuds like Cena's recent feud with the Big Show. But with a heel like HHH, you want to see the good guy win because you hate the heel so much. HHH did that better than anyone else, both on the mic and in the ring, and Orton's on his way, but not quite there yet.

People just like to jump on HHH hate wagon because it's the popular thing to do in the IWC.

 

[tripsfan1]

I think alot of the arguements made in reference to the late nineties vs. now are a bit biased and unfair. Case in point. So if the Rock and Austin both returned to Raw now, would the ratings return to their stellar peaks of the late nineties. ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is not to discount anything the Rock & Austin accomplished for wrestling, but much of it was due to the whole attitude era, the Monday night Wars, and many other factors that made wrestling ratings so strong back then. The Rock and Austin were the main attractions at that time, and I agree, it was well deserved. The Rock is without a doubt the greatest ever with a mic in his hand. But Triple H is easily as good as Austin on mic Skills, and as good as both at in ring skills, IMO.
I always believe that Triple H will never truly get a fair shake from the die hard, life long wrestling fans, as so many will always lable Trips as someone who was given everything due to his marriage/Alliance to the McMahon family, when I believe he is the best draw in wrestling currently, and one of the biggest impacts of this decade.
WWE would not be where it is today without the likes of Austin and Rock, I agree, but could Triple H have possibly replaced one of the two and given the same impact to the sport?? An arguement that will go on forever.....

 

[CH David]

These people are all idiots.

Well thank you for insulting myself, a Moderator and an Admin. Not to mention the others in this thread who also support their opinions.

Triple H is definetly...absoultley in the Rock and Austin's league. He is probably beter then both of them! For one, Triple H is still in the buisness entertaining his wwe fans, Austin and Rock are not entertaining there wwe fans, and austin isn't entertaining any fans.

So still being in the business, he is better than Austin and the Rock? Explain to me how the fuck that makes sense. Hogan was out for a good 7 years. Is Triple H better than Hogan? Austin is making movies, granted shit, but still making movies. Rock has been making a good career with the Disney flicks, and kids will drag their parents to see them. But Triple H is still wrestling, definitely better.

If Austin and Rock were beter, then they'd still be wrestling today? How can somebody be beter then someone whos lasted longer. And Triple H has won more world championships then they have! Triple H is on the burge of passing Flair's record even with 13 champion reigns. I beleive he'll bypass flair by the end of his carrer, and his way younger then flair.

Soooo, Steve Austin, whose neck was broken in a match, yet finished said match, should still be wrestling in your opinion? A career threatening injury took him out, and now any possible bump he would take could possibly paralyze, maybe even kill him, but Triple H is still there so he is better.

As far as the Rock, he left for his own benefit. Who are we to say he should still be here? Triple H is doing what he loves, Rock was looking out for himself, which is what you have to do. One injury could cut you short, and you may be left with nothing. Rock chose the safer and better money route. Still doesn't make Triple H better.

HHH has had more exciting feuds, not that Austin and The rock havn't had some of the best feuds in history, HHH had way more intense feuds and is still feuding,

But he isn't feuding right now. He has a match with Shawn Michaels and John Cena for the title. That isn't really a feud so much as a match. They haven't even built it up that much. His last "feud" perse, as a part of DX was against Legacy. Before that I'll concede Orton, but that ended up sucking. Triple H has had some very good feuds no doubt, but just aren't on par with Rock and Austin's feuds.

not to metion he's part of one of the most loved and hilarious tag teams, and has had a fun character featuring a birtish blue blood, to a backstabbing brilliant heel, to a rebel againts the company. And don't forget he has been in the second most hell in a cell matches of 8 and winning 6 of them. And in one of the first tag team hell in a cell matches. I'd say Triple H is the one whos in the league of his own. You people are all idiots.

So because he was a part of DX, was the Connecticut Blue Blood, he is better? I don't see your logic. Second most HIAC matches, and winning 6 you say? Oh by the way, not that this really matters, it might but doubt it, he wasn't in the first tag team HIAC, The Undertaker and Steve Austin vs. Mankind and Kane went to a no contest.

Triple H has had a lot of success, most of that being due to not many people being huge on Raw in 03 and 04, little into 05 as well. But that still doesn't mean he should be up there with Rock and Austin. And again, thank you for calling us idiots, your opinion is noted.

 

[The Phenomenal One]

I'm going to keep this short and sweet. IMO, HHH was not the third man in the Attitude Era. That spot easily goes to The Undertaker. Now, you talk about somebody who doesn't get the credit they deserve as far as what they brought to the Era of Attitude. LOL I remember when I was way younger and I got a WWF cake for my birthday. The cake was designed with WWF stuff lol. Pretty badass. And on that cake, it was a picture from WWFShopzone.com or whatever the hell they called. It was Austin, Rock, and Taker. It's a reason that it wasn't Austin, Rock, and HHH. HHH was simply not third man of the Attitude Era.