I think several wrestlers stay in wrestling longer than they should. You have certain wrestlers who should have called it quites years aho, but are still going out and tryoing to perform. I'm not talking about Hulk Hogan, when he wrestlers he's doing pretty much the same that he did 20 odd years ago. But you get people like Ric Flair who go out every night and have bad matches. His last great performance was nearly 16 years ago. Are many fans going to remember him as the wrestler who had classic matches with Steamboat, Race, Rhodes etc?Or the bad wrestler, with bad selling, with the bad physique, who loses to everybody? There are more future fans than there are in the past.
Are Any Wrestlers Ruining Their Legacy?
- Thread starter Y 2 Jake
- Start date
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
I don't think Flair is ruining his legacy for the simple fact that he still puts on a great match. He moves fairly well, hits his spots, tells his story, and the matches he is in are usually realistic. With 30+ years experience, I buy the idea that he can hang with younger guys, but can't go on a title run.
Hacksaw Jim Duggan. I mean, he looks in shape (for him, anyway) and still gets a crowd going, but come on! He's well past being able to do anything. He wasn't even a "great" when he WAS in his prime. His three biggest accomplishments were the WCW US Title over Austin, the Royal Rumble win, and being Hogan's bitch for years. Now he's jobbing out to the Umagas and Snitskys of the world.
Tatanka was on that road not long ago. He looked terribly out of shape and out of sync with his opponents. Plus, nobody cared about him when he returned. Here was a guy who'd started with WWF on a two year undefeated streak.
Hacksaw Jim Duggan. I mean, he looks in shape (for him, anyway) and still gets a crowd going, but come on! He's well past being able to do anything. He wasn't even a "great" when he WAS in his prime. His three biggest accomplishments were the WCW US Title over Austin, the Royal Rumble win, and being Hogan's bitch for years. Now he's jobbing out to the Umagas and Snitskys of the world.
Tatanka was on that road not long ago. He looked terribly out of shape and out of sync with his opponents. Plus, nobody cared about him when he returned. Here was a guy who'd started with WWF on a two year undefeated streak.
I would have to say Ric Flair. He is in terrible shape, and his matches are just as bad. The only thing he could be usefull for is to put young guys over. But he doesn't even do that. Sadly the younger fans won't remember him for what he did when he was in his prime, but they'll remember him on the last chapter of his career. Now all of a sudden he's having guys who the WWE was building up for a long time job to him. Thankfully Flair is retiring at WrestleMania.
Bad matches or not, Flair still goes out there and wrestles.....even at his age, whereas guys like Hogan/Austin/etc make appearances once every blue moon. Flair's legacy will be cemented, not because of the quality of his matches but, because of his love of the sport and his dedication to the fans.
As far as legacy's go, I think that Triple H's has been tarnished. From marrying the bosses daughter, to cock-blocking every single one of his world title challengers (except Benoit, HBK, Goldberg and Batista), it appears that Triple H is (obviously) just out for himself. Just look at the PPV which just passed. Sure, Hardy won over Trips, but (as noted on WZ) Trips wanted his title shot at 'Mania, not the Rumble. I'm sure he'll be in the HoF someday, but I think that a lot of damage has already been done.
As far as legacy's go, I think that Triple H's has been tarnished. From marrying the bosses daughter, to cock-blocking every single one of his world title challengers (except Benoit, HBK, Goldberg and Batista), it appears that Triple H is (obviously) just out for himself. Just look at the PPV which just passed. Sure, Hardy won over Trips, but (as noted on WZ) Trips wanted his title shot at 'Mania, not the Rumble. I'm sure he'll be in the HoF someday, but I think that a lot of damage has already been done.
Scott Steiner is beyond ruining his legacy, the genetic freak is really slow in the ring and after watching early tapes from his career he was extremely mobile and agile. Also 3d what the fuck you guys need to lose a lil wait and go back to being badasses and not simply trying to put the youngins over. You guys can still put on great matches if you were in better shape so please do it. Last, Vincent Kennedy McMahon, ur titantron hasnt changed in 6 yrs and neither has ur persona. Vince either get off tv or come up with something new
I think Booker T ruined his legacy the minute he debuted in TNA, nothing against TNA Booker just doesn't seem to fit. he had a good legacy going but i guess HHH is too much of a bully on RAW that Booker jumped ship.
With the way things are going Jericho might've made a mistake coming back he was hyphed to hell then when he finally comes back he has 1 match with Orton not even a fued & now he's gonna be fueding with JBL, hell Hardy's match with Orton is already more hyphed then Y2J's was. another HHH doing i suppose maybe he's still pissed Jericho made him tear his first quad.
With the way things are going Jericho might've made a mistake coming back he was hyphed to hell then when he finally comes back he has 1 match with Orton not even a fued & now he's gonna be fueding with JBL, hell Hardy's match with Orton is already more hyphed then Y2J's was. another HHH doing i suppose maybe he's still pissed Jericho made him tear his first quad.
Flair has ruined his legacy a long time ago. I can't believe that people are saying he still "wrestles". Flair hasn't performed a "wrestling" move in years. Grabbing a crotch, chopping, and poking someone in the eye, all the while doing the "nature boy strut" does not constitute as wrestling moves.
Flair has dropped value in my opinion, and is way, way beyond his prime. And the Booker T statement is ridiculous. Booker T has spent 6 years in the WWE, he was in WCW for nearly ten years. He isn't a WWE guy, he will be remembered more for his tenure in WCW then WWE. So him going to TNA like a bunch of former WCW guys is nothing to be ashamed of.
Flair has dropped value in my opinion, and is way, way beyond his prime. And the Booker T statement is ridiculous. Booker T has spent 6 years in the WWE, he was in WCW for nearly ten years. He isn't a WWE guy, he will be remembered more for his tenure in WCW then WWE. So him going to TNA like a bunch of former WCW guys is nothing to be ashamed of.
Now i agree that saying Flair ''wrestles'' is a stretch.
His moveset is miniscule if even existent at all.
But there is one thing Flair can do better than just about anyone in the prefession...the a story.
He makes you beleive that despte being somewhat out of shape 60 year old man, he has a chance. He makes you beleive no matter how much the underdog, he could pull out a win. And that applies still to this day. Now of course we know they probably arent going to put him over a mew rising star, but the fact that he makes you think its a possibility as opposed to a probability, that is grade A story telling.
I do not think he is ruining his legacy in any way. I completly enjoy watching him.
and i think the younger fans of today were the same as i once was. They see a flabby old man on television(for me it was terry funk) and wishing and praying he would retire and leave.
but fans progrees as long as they truely love the business. they learn more names, mor moves more legends, more stories. they learn to appreciate the legends of yesteryear and watch their matches and fueds and grow to understand why they are where they are.
and as far as the older smarks go..i honeslty just dont understand completly how they dont enjoy watching Flair cut a ridiculously entertaining promo or kneedrop his own jacket.
His moveset is miniscule if even existent at all.
But there is one thing Flair can do better than just about anyone in the prefession...the a story.
He makes you beleive that despte being somewhat out of shape 60 year old man, he has a chance. He makes you beleive no matter how much the underdog, he could pull out a win. And that applies still to this day. Now of course we know they probably arent going to put him over a mew rising star, but the fact that he makes you think its a possibility as opposed to a probability, that is grade A story telling.
I do not think he is ruining his legacy in any way. I completly enjoy watching him.
and i think the younger fans of today were the same as i once was. They see a flabby old man on television(for me it was terry funk) and wishing and praying he would retire and leave.
but fans progrees as long as they truely love the business. they learn more names, mor moves more legends, more stories. they learn to appreciate the legends of yesteryear and watch their matches and fueds and grow to understand why they are where they are.
and as far as the older smarks go..i honeslty just dont understand completly how they dont enjoy watching Flair cut a ridiculously entertaining promo or kneedrop his own jacket.
Obviously Flair because he has a Legacy. There are not to many older wrestlers who cant still perform(hbk,booker t, undertaker,sting all are old but have some value left)who have any type of stature to protect. Jim Duggan,Dustin Rhodes and Raven are three guys I think should retire from being wrestlers. They just don't have much to offer and to me look pathetic in the ring at times but they really don't have icon status. Raven was a "hardcore" icon for a long time, now he goes out there and he is the bad wrestler, with bad selling, with the bad physique, who loses to everybody guy.
I'm going to disagree with people here. I don't think Flair has ruined his legacy by staying, I think his legacy has been BOOSTED by staying. The way the WWE over glorifies Ric Flair and his contribution to professional wrestling is astounding. Before Ric Flair signed with the WWE, he was pretty much shown for what he was. An arrogant egomaniac, who was little more than a walking illogical spotfest of a match, who couldn't draw a stick figure, much less fans to his shows. Once wrestling became national, and people all over the country could watch Flair, did people not notice how he became less and less involved in major storylines? Flair was completely overrated back in the 80s, and the wrestling boom of the 90s proved that.
So, before Flair came to the WWE, he was known for what he really was. But since Flair has come to the WWE and become buddies with Triple H, all we've heard was about how great he was, how important he was, and how he is the greatest wrestler ever. They've put Flair on a pedestal that he could not have reached even if he HAD been extremely talented. They put him over as the greatest thing in professional wrestling history, when history and pure hard facts will tell you that's not the truth. I'm not saying he wasn't important to wrestling and wasn't a big draw for the NWA. I'm saying he wasn't a big draw overall.
So, in Flair's case, I think staying longer has actually increased his reputation.
So, before Flair came to the WWE, he was known for what he really was. But since Flair has come to the WWE and become buddies with Triple H, all we've heard was about how great he was, how important he was, and how he is the greatest wrestler ever. They've put Flair on a pedestal that he could not have reached even if he HAD been extremely talented. They put him over as the greatest thing in professional wrestling history, when history and pure hard facts will tell you that's not the truth. I'm not saying he wasn't important to wrestling and wasn't a big draw for the NWA. I'm saying he wasn't a big draw overall.
So, in Flair's case, I think staying longer has actually increased his reputation.
Illogical spotfest of a match? How did you go about figuring that one out?
He couldn't draw? He was the biggest draw in the NWA for the large majority of the 80's. While he didn't have the drawing power of the amazing Hulk Hogan, he was still a popular draw in America, and especially towards the late 80's where was gaining a cult following in Japan.
Not to mention:
Yet he was still the NWA's biggest draw. Even still, he was a main event player throughout the whole 80's.
Why?
Maybe that has something to do with the fact he was a part of WCW before he came to the WWE. They weren't going to promote Ric Flair while he was with the oppostion were they?
Even when he returned to the WWE in 2001, Jim Ross was making comments about how Ric Flair is one of the greatest of all time.
Except he IS extremely talented. Not only is one of the most charismatic wrestlers of our times, he knew how to put on an amazing match. His feuds with Steamboat, Sting, Windham, Race and Windham throughout the 80's prove this. His matches with Vader, Chono and Muto through the 90's proved he could still put great matches on.
Ric Flair was a big draw. Without comparing him to Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair was a big draw. People to this day still pay to go to WWE shows just to see Ric Flair.
Didn't he main event some event in Japan while drawing huge numbers? (I can't find the exact numbers).
FlairFan2003
Mid-Card Championship Winner
The idea that Flair couldn't draw is ridiculous - NWA business for the most of the 1980's was huge in the south and midwest - it was one area Vince McMahon could not break into and dominate. National television exposure courtesy of TBS Superstation made Flair the most recognizable wrestler on the planet not part of McMahon's cartoon universe. The fact that McMahon tried several times to lure Flair from the NWA shows his value at that time. And while booking and management problems played a role, WCW nearly went out of buisiness when they downplayed Flair he left for the WWF in 1991. McMahon also never attempted to alter Flair's character or look, making him the first wrestler of note from another federation who did not require a name change or gimmick change to compete - No "Mr Perfect" Ric Flair or "Million Dollar Man" Ric Flair, he was actually promoted as a great wrestling champion from a rival company, the first time WWF ever acknowledged a wrestler had a career before they worked for McMahon. That shows how big a draw nationally he was. Flair was also one of the biggest international draws of all time, particulalry in Japan where he regulalry played in front of sold ouit arenas in main events against both local and other US wrestlers for much of the 1980's.
The last few yrs Flair was in WCW he was marginalized, mostly to satisfy Hulk Hogan's ego and that may have tarnished his legacy a bit. If anything, returning to WWE has restored some of that. Sure his matches are not what they used to be but he is still more entertaining than 2/3 of the guys on the current roster, amazing given his age. Furthermore, WWE has largely portrayed him as a "Living Legend" cementing his reputation with a whole new generation of wrestling fans. It's amazing when my 12 yr old cousin wants to watch Four Horseman matches from 1987 because Ric Flair is in them. No doubt watching Shawn Michaels in the 1990's he was influenced by Flair, even more so than HHH today. Guys don't strive to duplicate Hulk Hogan, they strive to duplicate Ric Flair, further proof of his appeal both to fans and other performers.
As for not putting over younger talent, Flair has put over Chris Masters, Chris Jericho, RVD, MVP, Edge, and Randy Orton, as well as established veterans like HBK, Undertaker, and HHH. Yeah, he beat some of those guys too but with his popularity and contribution to the industry it wouldn't make sense to use him as a glorified jobber. It's hard to think of another main event wrestler who has put over guys as willingly as Flair. Certainly not Hogan.
If anything, Hogan has hurt (or at least cemented) his legacy by his unwillingness to work with younger talent and reluctance to put anyone over. If there is one guy who has tarnished his legacy it is him. I don't consider Austin as having tarnished his because he doesn't wrestle anymore due to injury. His guest appearances may be predictable but he doesn't expect active main event wrestlers to lay down to him on national television.
Some would say HBK has stuck around too long, particulary since his matches are getting shorter and his injury related time off more frequent. I would say he has enhanced his legacy by working with a wide variety of other wrestlers (putting some guys over he never would have made look good in his 90's heyday) while still being entertaining.
The last few yrs Flair was in WCW he was marginalized, mostly to satisfy Hulk Hogan's ego and that may have tarnished his legacy a bit. If anything, returning to WWE has restored some of that. Sure his matches are not what they used to be but he is still more entertaining than 2/3 of the guys on the current roster, amazing given his age. Furthermore, WWE has largely portrayed him as a "Living Legend" cementing his reputation with a whole new generation of wrestling fans. It's amazing when my 12 yr old cousin wants to watch Four Horseman matches from 1987 because Ric Flair is in them. No doubt watching Shawn Michaels in the 1990's he was influenced by Flair, even more so than HHH today. Guys don't strive to duplicate Hulk Hogan, they strive to duplicate Ric Flair, further proof of his appeal both to fans and other performers.
As for not putting over younger talent, Flair has put over Chris Masters, Chris Jericho, RVD, MVP, Edge, and Randy Orton, as well as established veterans like HBK, Undertaker, and HHH. Yeah, he beat some of those guys too but with his popularity and contribution to the industry it wouldn't make sense to use him as a glorified jobber. It's hard to think of another main event wrestler who has put over guys as willingly as Flair. Certainly not Hogan.
If anything, Hogan has hurt (or at least cemented) his legacy by his unwillingness to work with younger talent and reluctance to put anyone over. If there is one guy who has tarnished his legacy it is him. I don't consider Austin as having tarnished his because he doesn't wrestle anymore due to injury. His guest appearances may be predictable but he doesn't expect active main event wrestlers to lay down to him on national television.
Some would say HBK has stuck around too long, particulary since his matches are getting shorter and his injury related time off more frequent. I would say he has enhanced his legacy by working with a wide variety of other wrestlers (putting some guys over he never would have made look good in his 90's heyday) while still being entertaining.
I watch the match, and notice the illogical build and working of the match, the stupid spots, and the lack of any kind of limb psychology.
Flair drew on his name, not on what he did. His reputation, not his quality, was what made people watch.
The NWA didn't have a set promotion that Flair would always appear. He wasn't on national TV every week, every month. He would travel from promotion to promotion, do his thing and then leave again, never letting the fans ever get tired of him.
When he went to the WWF, that was no longer the case, and people quit caring about him. When Flair went back to WCW, he was on TV every week, and people quit caring. Flair's schtick got old, once it was put on the same playing field from which we compare today, and compare with the WWF back in the 80s.
Yet he was still the NWA's biggest draw. Even still, he was a main event player throughout the whole 80's.
You're misunderstanding.
Flair's legacy by the time WCW went out of business was not a great one. It was one full of backstabbing stories, piss poor matches by an out-of-shape and overrated worker, who used every possible measure during his run to keep down any threats to his spot in the main-event.
Now, he's hailed as a great and unselfish worker, who was the best wrestler ever, blah blah blah.
This has all come about because of the WWE's spin and people being worked by it.
By 'I watch the match', do you mean his stuff from the past ten years or so? Because I'd agree. I'd totally disagree if you're referring that to his work in Japan (especially 1995) and the majority of his 80's stuff. His Japan stuff specifically voids your comment.
..Yet he made his name because of what he did and was - he was a great entertainer. Both in and out of the ring. How else would he have drawn? He wouldn't have had his reputation if he wasn't as good as he was.
Yes, but for most of the time, he was travelling promotion to promotion the NWA champion, defending his title all over the world.
I haven't seen enough footage of his 91 - 93 run in the WWF to comment. He definately got strong dislike crowd reactions from what I've seen on the Ric Flair DVD, so he must have been doing something right.
Maybe that's because the younger audience, such as myself, had never learnt of his past, what he'd accomplished, and hadn't seen the amazing matches he once had. I judged him based on what I saw at the time, which is what you mentioned above 'backstabbing stories, piss poor matches by an out-of-shape and overrated worker, who used every possible measure during his run to keep down any threats to his spot in the main-event'. Now knowing his full history and having seen his most acclaimed works, I can safely say I was wrong.
And just to be clear here, I'm in total agreement that the WWE have blown Flair's legacy out of proportion. But I still think he's one of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time, and deserves alot of the praise he recieves.
I'm talking about Ric Flair. His complete body of work.
He was still "little more than a walking illogical spotfest of a match". If you want a more detailed explanation, from someone a little more respected than me, you need to read Bret Hart's comments on Flair. They are all over the internet. He wrote a scathing piece on Flair.
I know that. I just said that. Once he got to a promotion where he was exposed as much as every other wrestler, he was no longer a draw.
The WWE is infamous for editing their DVDs to fit their own agenda. Now, I'm not saying that's what happened, just that they do it. You can really notice it on the Royal Rumble Anthology.
But, there's a reason why McMahon made no attempt to keep Flair from leaving.
There's no denying what he accomplished in professional wrestling. The point I made, from the very beginning, is that his reputation has been boosted incredibly from staying in wrestling for so long.
I haven't read it. A link to it would be appreciated.
Well I see no reason to further this debate as I'm in agreement with your point.
I tried to send this via PM, but it was 4 times larger than what PMs allow. So, I will post what I sent here.
This used to be found at www.brethart.com/comments but it has since been taken down once the Bret Hart website was re-done. However, here is what he wrote, and a link to the site I have since found it on. Additionally, the original post links to the Bret Hart page, showing that it was indeed once on there.
Im sure that if wrestling fans will give some thought to what Ive
written here, youll find it to be more accurate and far more interesting than
Ric Flairs book.
I dont know if Im more infuriated or disappointed by the derogatory
things he wrote, not just about me, but about other hard working members of
the wrestling fraternity, like Randy Savage and Mick Foley. I wasnt going
to comment because I didnt want to promote Flairs book for him, but as has
become usual in wrestling the truth is getting rewritten again and Im one of
the few guys who is trying to preserve an accurate chronicle of the wrestling
of our era.
It bears mentioning that if I didnt have some measure of respect for
Flair his comments wouldnt have phased me one way or the other. Sadly, the
way he has jumped to erroneous conclusions and put them out there for the
public as the truth has eroded whatever respect I had for him. Everybody has a
right to their opinion, but in my view a valid opinion should be backed up by
facts.
Yes, I did make some unflattering comments about Flair and Hogan back
in the early 90s. I then rethought what Id said and in the interest of doing
business with them, for the greater good of the business, I made a sincere
effort to apologize to both of them, publicly and privately. They each shook
my hand and told me not to worry about it and that it wasnt an issue, but when
I got to WCW I was never given any kind of a chance and whether either one
or both of them was behind it Ill probably never know, other than hearsay.
Now, years later, Hogan and Flair have both spoken inaccurately about me and
have tried to debunk and minimize my contributions to a business that I was
born into and have devoted my life to with deep passion and dedication.
Wrestling wasnt just a job for me, it was the only way of life I knew long before
either Hogan or Flair laced up a pair of boots and took their first wrestling
lesson to see what it was like.
Never, in all my life, have I ever been so infuriated by ridiculous
statements made about me. Perhaps they were purposely designed to get my
response and sell more books, who knows. Who cares?
Flair talks about how I could be the president of my own fan club. All
I can say is, hes one to talk! Self promotion was an intricate key to any
wrestler making it in the business. He convinced a legion of fans that he
was the best in the business - and theres nothing wrong with that. He even
convinced himself. But his peers, the guys who worked with him night after
night, know better. How could any fan know what kind of a worker Ric Flair
really is without actually working with him?
Flair says that I believed my own press and convinced myself that Im
the best there is. When I boast about being the best there is, it is because
of three reasons. The first and most important is that I never injured any
wrestler in any way despite my physical style. This is something in which I
take a lot of pride and I dont know of anyone, who worked a schedule on par
with mine for as long as I did, who can truthfully make that same claim. The
second reason is that in the fourteenyears I was with the WWF, often wrestling
three hundred times per year, I missed but one match - and that was due to a
canceled flight. Again, I dont think there is anyone who worked that schedule
who can truthfully make that claim. Everyone on the road worked hard but I
was proud to be counted among the handful of guys with an exceptionally
dedicated work ethic. The third reason is that throughout my career I never once
refused to put over a fellow wrestler - except at Survivor Series 97. In a
conversation that I had with Shawn Michaels three weeks before Montreal, when I
was champion, I told him that despite our differences, I wanted him to know
that he was safe working with me in the ring and that I had no problem
whatsoever putting him over. Shawns exact words to me were, I appreciate that,
but I want you to know that Im not willing to do the same thing for you. This
was just plain unprofessional. Putting him over would have condoned his
disrespect, not just for me but for the honor of old school ways. Vince told me
that I could leave any way I liked, not to mention the fact that I had
contractual creative control for my last thirty days. The idea for him to beat me in
Canada was solely conceived to ruin me as a commodity in my home country where
WCW had big plans for me. Not to mention that when Shawn Michaels mocked
fornicating with the Canadian flag in the middle of the ring it went beyond
being personal to me, my fans, and my country!
I remember Ric Flair and Bobby Heenan coming up to me in the
dressing room in Nashville on May 6, 1989. I was in the Hart Foundation at the
time and Flair told me he was honored to shake my hand. I had never seen him
work. Being on the WWF road schedule made it nearly impossible to catch any
wrestling matches on TV because we were almost always working or traveling when
wrestling was on. From what little I did see of the NWA my impression was that
their TV show at that time was poorly produced and made the wrestlers come
off as second rate. Despite that, Id been lead to believe, like everyone
else, that Ric Flair was the best in the business. I always wondered, if he was
the best why wasnt he in the big league WWF? His popularity at that time
was largely concentrated in the deep south. I appreciated his compliment and
hoped I might have the chance to work with this legend some day.
About a year later Flair was head booker at WCW and he made me an offer
to come work there for money good enough that I had to seriously consider it.
As it turned out, Flair was unable to back up his offer and the deal
fell through when he nervously reneged. I lost respect for him and his word and
smartly chose to stay put in the WWF instead.
Eventually, Flair showed up in the WWF with the WCW belt and I was
somewhat surprised when he shamelessly crapped all over the history of the
territory that made him by not giving them their belt back. To this day I dont
know what would make him hurt his fellow wrestlers and their struggling company
like that. I admit I dont know all the facts on this so I wont comment
any further about it, and Ric should have done the same with me.
Flair was trumpeted into the WWF with great fan fare and at last, one
night in New Haven, I was thrilled to defend the IC belt against this great
legend in an unscheduled dark match that was taped for Coliseum video. I knew
more about ring psychology and real wrestling at the ripe age of nine than Ric
Flair knew in his entire lifetime yet out of respect I let him lead the match.
Ric suggested a finish that called for me to do a flying cross body where he
would subsequently catch me and stagger backwards with the two of us toppling
over the top rope only to be counted out for the finish. It was a simple but
risky move that Id done countless times before with lesser wrestlers but at
the end of the match when I dove into Flair he stood too far from the ropes,
mistimed it , and he simply didnt have the strength to catch me so we fell
down in an embarrassing heap. Ric suddenly came up with a new make shift finish
that, not surprisingly, benefited him and not me. It absolutely stunk but
these things sometimes tend to happen when two wrestlers work together for
the very first time. Although the match had been taped and can still be seen
today I wasnt going to make any kind of a big deal about it, but back in
the dressing room I was annoyed to hear Flair painting out to everybody that
somehow I had messed up the finish, implying that I was still a young up and
comer. If you understand wrestling, you know that all I could do was dive
into his arms and the rest was up to him. He proved to me, right then, that he
was full of it and was no legend at all.
Ric was an old fox that took such liberties every time he thought he
could get away with it. Youll find nary a wrestler that would describe me,
Savage or Foley as back stabbers or sneaky liberty takers, but with Flair you
better take a number!
I remember Flair worked with Randy Savage who, like me, was lead to
believe the same crap about how great Flair was when they had a Saturday
Nights Main Event TV match in Hershey on September 1, 1992. He somehow
became WWF champion and Vince McMahon carefully constructed an elaborate storyline
for this very important match. I was standing right next to Vince watching
the match live on a backstage monitor when Vince blew his stack as he watched
Ric do absolutely nothing he told him to do. Ric has never been able to do
anything but his one routine match, which consists of cartoon high spots
borrowed from Jackie Fargo and midget wrestlers, along with an assortment of tired
old ripped off Buddy Rogers high spots. My dad always called Flair a
routine man - because he did the exact same routine every night, every where,
and was forever stuck with it. An angry Vince met Flair as he came through the
curtain and he furiously ordered both Flair and an exasperated Randy to march
right back out and redo the entire match the way hed told them to do it!
Even then, as I remember it, Flair was still unable to impress Vince.
Personally, I would have been shamed with embarrassment to ever put the promotion,
myself, or my opponent through such a farce! I recall telling Randy that I
thought Flair was thirty minutes of non stop non psychology and Randy
shook his head and laughed along with me at how true it was.
I can tell you first hand that Ric Flair was not a great worker at
all. Yes, he did hilarious interviews but, to my taste, I never thought a
world champion was supposed to be hilariously amusing. Granted, Flair was
entertaining to watch - and theres nothing wrong with that. In fact, much like
Hogan, Flairs magnetism and charisma distracted from and offset his limited
ability in the ring. The single greatest contribution that Flair ever gave to
pro wrestling was the wooo from his silly chops. First off, chops hurt - and in
my opinion they look like crap.
For Flair to demean Randy Savage and Mick Foley is outrageous! In my
opinion, as someone who has worked with all three of them (and everybody else
from that era too) Ric Flair couldn't even lace up Randy and Micks boots!
They were both hard workers and exciting innovators who at least made every
possible effort to put on some kind of a different show from night to night.
Either one of them could call a great match any time they wanted. So what if
Randy wanted to put in an even greater effort by designing a great match in
excessive detail? That is a quality, not a flaw, and Flair is too lost in time
to grasp it. Sure Flair could call a match, the exact same one over and over,
talking and telegraphing every move! I can also say that Ric was a blatant
expose every time he cut himself. Hey look, Ric Flairs blading! ...
Some great pro! If old time shooters like Ed Strangler Lewis or Frank Gotch
were to look down from the heavens Im sure theyd be more impressed with Randy
and Micks realism and psychology than Flairs phony chops and upside-down
flips into the corner, where amazingly he somehow landed right on his feet! -
only to jog down to the next corner - where he climbed right up and - even
more amazingly - took ten or fifteen seconds to maneuver his opponents hands
carefully onto his chest so he could take a phony beal back into the ring!
If done on rare occasions, such silly routines, because they are highly
amusing and entertaining, often go undetected for how ridiculously phony they are.
But this pathetic routine was performed every time Flair went blank, and let
me tell you, he went blank all the time!
As for Rics criticism of how my comeback was repetitive, all I can
say is that I felt that, logically speaking, why wouldnt I break into my
patented arsenal of best moves before going into my finish? I did, in fact, change
it up from time to time, but I also recognized that most fans completely
understood what I was doing. It made as much sense as doing the same finishing
move every night, except my finish was a series of moves. The fact that Ric
took exception to this is a simple example of his inability to fully understand ri
ng psychology.
The day after I wrestled Davey at Wembley at Summerslam 92 in front
of 86,000 fans I flew to Baltimore. They were playing a tape of the show in
the hotel bar and I was watching a tape in my room when there was a knock at my
door and low and behold both Randy and Flair stood there beaming. They each
shook my hand and I remember Flair excitedly grinning and praising me saying,
Brother, that was the greatest match Ive ever seen. The greatest!
For Ric Flair to say that I wasnt a draw is just plain ridiculous. Im
very sure that I sold enough tickets throughout my career. Who is he kidding?
Everyone knows that most of the time WCW wrestlers worked in front of empty
chairs in empty arenas. All one has to do is watch Flairs DVD to see the
empty seats and the exact same match with every opponent, whatever their shape or
size. After Vince made him redo his SNME match his days were numbered in
the WWF because he clearly wasnt what he was cracked up to be. Six weeks
later Flair was told to lose the belt to me in Saskatoon on October 12, 1992. As
I understood it, Flair declined putting me over on TV, despite the fact
that he himself had just told me that Wembley was the best match hed ever
seen ! Let alone that I was the biggest draw the WWF had in Europe and all the
foreign markets, consistently main eventing in front of, not sold out
buildings, but entirely sold out tours! And I had a very strong following in
North America too. The WWF was reeling from sex and steroid scandals at that
time and I was seen as a safe bet to carry the belt, in large part, because I
worked hard and I kept my nose clean. When I won the title in Saskatoon that
night I came back to the dressing room with a dislocated finger and a rolled
ankle, both as a result of Ric failing to tell me what he was doing in the
ring. (I generally never got hurt.)
I worked with Flair every night for a while after that and I finally
went to Vince totally exasperated and told him that I thought that Ric was
intentionally sabotaging my matches every night since Id won the belt. To be
honest, Ric always worked hard but nothing he did in the ring ever made sense.
Just when hed masterfully worked my leg hed suddenly grab a headlock and
call a long series of running high spots! Just when we had the crowd ready to
burst hed call some lame spot that would kill all the heat wed built up and I
forever found myself shaking my head at how wed have to build it up all over
again. Most of what Ric called made him look like a world beater and in some
matches Id blast him with fifteen or twenty terrific looking working punches
only to see him never go down but then finally wobble and take one of his
pathetic and comedic face bumps. Sometimes hed do his upside-down flip into
the corner two or three times in a row and in one match, only days after I won
the title, he called for a small package out of a figure four and pinned
himself without even giving me a comeback! When I finally went to Vince he scolded
me and told me that I was his champion and from here on in to take charge of
my matches - and that Flair wasnt as good as he was cracked up to be! I was
trying to respect Ric at the time but since he was heading back to WCW I
had no choice but to take control. Ric apologized to me saying he was having
problems at home but today hes telling some bullshit story about Charles
Barkley and the Ultimate Warrior.
A few months later, when I found out Id be having a one hour marathon
match at the Boston Garden with Ric, I came up with a brilliant storyline
that I ran by Vince, who loved it. When I ran it by Flair in the dressing room
the night of the show he immediately interrupted me and began telling me what
we were going to do instead. I finally had to cut him off and sadly dress him
down in front of several wrestlers saying, Ric, Im the champion and this is
how its going to go. He dropped his jaw, turned red, and took his seat,
saying, Youre the champ. He never, ever got over it either. Scott Hall was
there and often told this story to other wrestlers for years. Sadly, old Ric
still managed to mess up the timing for every fall, in what I could only see
as intentional. At the time I was furious to read in Dave Meltzers
Wrestling Observer Newsletter how Ric Flair carried me for the full sixty minutes!
Ric Flair never carried me, ever! Years later I spoke with Meltzer about
it and we cleared the air when after hearing my perspective on it he agreed
that he didnt have all the facts and told me that hed never seen the Boson
match, which was reported to him by a fan who was there. If anything, Flair was
not only notorious for sucking up to the office but generally took liberties
with his opponents who had been convinced that he was going to make them. If
you watch Flairs matches youll see that he usually made himself at the
expense of his opponents , something I was famous for not doing.
Enough about this so called great worker. He was a three dressed up as
a nine who left his opponents second guessing their own abilities after
working with him.
For shame that Ric Flair should take pot shots at Terry Funk, Mick
Foley, Savage, me or anyone else. But none of this is what infuriates me the
most.
For Flair to denounce me for my role in the infamous Survivor Series
in Montreal, all I can say is that he wasnt there and he ignores much of
the truth when it comes to the facts. The most complete and accurate written
account of the whole Montreal debacle, for anyone who is interested, is
available at brethart.com - written by Dave Meltzer. I stand proud with my head
held high for the way I handled myself and the position I took for the business
and my fellow wrestlers that fateful day. I find solace in remembering two
truly great champions, Harley Race and Dory Funk, who did call me up to tell
me they were proud of me for how I handled myself in Montreal. Thats all the
endorsement Ill ever need! Thats all I need to say about it.
Far above and beyond anything else Flair said, it is his comment about
how I exploited my loving brother Owens death that is unforgivable.
Frankly, this is such a low class blow that it is even beneath him! If he wants to
take pot shots at me as a wrestler thats bad enough, but it is reprehensible
that he would judge me for the way I handled myself in the aftermath of my
brothers death. All I can say is that I stood by Owens widow through a
fierce and bitter time, never once failing her or their children. I did what I
think Owen would have wanted me to do and I answer to Owens memory not to
Ric Flair. For him to say that I fueled the law suit because of Montreal
is ridiculous and disgusting.
I think its fair to say one had to walk in my shoes to fully comprehend the
situation and when I put my story into words in a book about wrestling that
is worth reading only then can anyone appreciate all that I lost and all
that I gave during such a difficult time. For this asshole to blindly poke me
in the eye would be like me declaring that Flair showed great cowardice when
he let Bobby Shane die in that tragic plane crash back in 75 !
Foley , Savage and Bret Hart have been doing just fine outside of the
world of wrestling. What else has Ric Flair got? Id like to punch Ric Flair
right in the nose - but Id probably have to kick somebody in the ass to do
it! In the infamous words of Dick Cheney, go f**k yourself Ric and be glad
that someone like me doesnt shove your head squarely up your ass someday.
written here, youll find it to be more accurate and far more interesting than
Ric Flairs book.
I dont know if Im more infuriated or disappointed by the derogatory
things he wrote, not just about me, but about other hard working members of
the wrestling fraternity, like Randy Savage and Mick Foley. I wasnt going
to comment because I didnt want to promote Flairs book for him, but as has
become usual in wrestling the truth is getting rewritten again and Im one of
the few guys who is trying to preserve an accurate chronicle of the wrestling
of our era.
It bears mentioning that if I didnt have some measure of respect for
Flair his comments wouldnt have phased me one way or the other. Sadly, the
way he has jumped to erroneous conclusions and put them out there for the
public as the truth has eroded whatever respect I had for him. Everybody has a
right to their opinion, but in my view a valid opinion should be backed up by
facts.
Yes, I did make some unflattering comments about Flair and Hogan back
in the early 90s. I then rethought what Id said and in the interest of doing
business with them, for the greater good of the business, I made a sincere
effort to apologize to both of them, publicly and privately. They each shook
my hand and told me not to worry about it and that it wasnt an issue, but when
I got to WCW I was never given any kind of a chance and whether either one
or both of them was behind it Ill probably never know, other than hearsay.
Now, years later, Hogan and Flair have both spoken inaccurately about me and
have tried to debunk and minimize my contributions to a business that I was
born into and have devoted my life to with deep passion and dedication.
Wrestling wasnt just a job for me, it was the only way of life I knew long before
either Hogan or Flair laced up a pair of boots and took their first wrestling
lesson to see what it was like.
Never, in all my life, have I ever been so infuriated by ridiculous
statements made about me. Perhaps they were purposely designed to get my
response and sell more books, who knows. Who cares?
Flair talks about how I could be the president of my own fan club. All
I can say is, hes one to talk! Self promotion was an intricate key to any
wrestler making it in the business. He convinced a legion of fans that he
was the best in the business - and theres nothing wrong with that. He even
convinced himself. But his peers, the guys who worked with him night after
night, know better. How could any fan know what kind of a worker Ric Flair
really is without actually working with him?
Flair says that I believed my own press and convinced myself that Im
the best there is. When I boast about being the best there is, it is because
of three reasons. The first and most important is that I never injured any
wrestler in any way despite my physical style. This is something in which I
take a lot of pride and I dont know of anyone, who worked a schedule on par
with mine for as long as I did, who can truthfully make that same claim. The
second reason is that in the fourteenyears I was with the WWF, often wrestling
three hundred times per year, I missed but one match - and that was due to a
canceled flight. Again, I dont think there is anyone who worked that schedule
who can truthfully make that claim. Everyone on the road worked hard but I
was proud to be counted among the handful of guys with an exceptionally
dedicated work ethic. The third reason is that throughout my career I never once
refused to put over a fellow wrestler - except at Survivor Series 97. In a
conversation that I had with Shawn Michaels three weeks before Montreal, when I
was champion, I told him that despite our differences, I wanted him to know
that he was safe working with me in the ring and that I had no problem
whatsoever putting him over. Shawns exact words to me were, I appreciate that,
but I want you to know that Im not willing to do the same thing for you. This
was just plain unprofessional. Putting him over would have condoned his
disrespect, not just for me but for the honor of old school ways. Vince told me
that I could leave any way I liked, not to mention the fact that I had
contractual creative control for my last thirty days. The idea for him to beat me in
Canada was solely conceived to ruin me as a commodity in my home country where
WCW had big plans for me. Not to mention that when Shawn Michaels mocked
fornicating with the Canadian flag in the middle of the ring it went beyond
being personal to me, my fans, and my country!
I remember Ric Flair and Bobby Heenan coming up to me in the
dressing room in Nashville on May 6, 1989. I was in the Hart Foundation at the
time and Flair told me he was honored to shake my hand. I had never seen him
work. Being on the WWF road schedule made it nearly impossible to catch any
wrestling matches on TV because we were almost always working or traveling when
wrestling was on. From what little I did see of the NWA my impression was that
their TV show at that time was poorly produced and made the wrestlers come
off as second rate. Despite that, Id been lead to believe, like everyone
else, that Ric Flair was the best in the business. I always wondered, if he was
the best why wasnt he in the big league WWF? His popularity at that time
was largely concentrated in the deep south. I appreciated his compliment and
hoped I might have the chance to work with this legend some day.
About a year later Flair was head booker at WCW and he made me an offer
to come work there for money good enough that I had to seriously consider it.
As it turned out, Flair was unable to back up his offer and the deal
fell through when he nervously reneged. I lost respect for him and his word and
smartly chose to stay put in the WWF instead.
Eventually, Flair showed up in the WWF with the WCW belt and I was
somewhat surprised when he shamelessly crapped all over the history of the
territory that made him by not giving them their belt back. To this day I dont
know what would make him hurt his fellow wrestlers and their struggling company
like that. I admit I dont know all the facts on this so I wont comment
any further about it, and Ric should have done the same with me.
Flair was trumpeted into the WWF with great fan fare and at last, one
night in New Haven, I was thrilled to defend the IC belt against this great
legend in an unscheduled dark match that was taped for Coliseum video. I knew
more about ring psychology and real wrestling at the ripe age of nine than Ric
Flair knew in his entire lifetime yet out of respect I let him lead the match.
Ric suggested a finish that called for me to do a flying cross body where he
would subsequently catch me and stagger backwards with the two of us toppling
over the top rope only to be counted out for the finish. It was a simple but
risky move that Id done countless times before with lesser wrestlers but at
the end of the match when I dove into Flair he stood too far from the ropes,
mistimed it , and he simply didnt have the strength to catch me so we fell
down in an embarrassing heap. Ric suddenly came up with a new make shift finish
that, not surprisingly, benefited him and not me. It absolutely stunk but
these things sometimes tend to happen when two wrestlers work together for
the very first time. Although the match had been taped and can still be seen
today I wasnt going to make any kind of a big deal about it, but back in
the dressing room I was annoyed to hear Flair painting out to everybody that
somehow I had messed up the finish, implying that I was still a young up and
comer. If you understand wrestling, you know that all I could do was dive
into his arms and the rest was up to him. He proved to me, right then, that he
was full of it and was no legend at all.
Ric was an old fox that took such liberties every time he thought he
could get away with it. Youll find nary a wrestler that would describe me,
Savage or Foley as back stabbers or sneaky liberty takers, but with Flair you
better take a number!
I remember Flair worked with Randy Savage who, like me, was lead to
believe the same crap about how great Flair was when they had a Saturday
Nights Main Event TV match in Hershey on September 1, 1992. He somehow
became WWF champion and Vince McMahon carefully constructed an elaborate storyline
for this very important match. I was standing right next to Vince watching
the match live on a backstage monitor when Vince blew his stack as he watched
Ric do absolutely nothing he told him to do. Ric has never been able to do
anything but his one routine match, which consists of cartoon high spots
borrowed from Jackie Fargo and midget wrestlers, along with an assortment of tired
old ripped off Buddy Rogers high spots. My dad always called Flair a
routine man - because he did the exact same routine every night, every where,
and was forever stuck with it. An angry Vince met Flair as he came through the
curtain and he furiously ordered both Flair and an exasperated Randy to march
right back out and redo the entire match the way hed told them to do it!
Even then, as I remember it, Flair was still unable to impress Vince.
Personally, I would have been shamed with embarrassment to ever put the promotion,
myself, or my opponent through such a farce! I recall telling Randy that I
thought Flair was thirty minutes of non stop non psychology and Randy
shook his head and laughed along with me at how true it was.
I can tell you first hand that Ric Flair was not a great worker at
all. Yes, he did hilarious interviews but, to my taste, I never thought a
world champion was supposed to be hilariously amusing. Granted, Flair was
entertaining to watch - and theres nothing wrong with that. In fact, much like
Hogan, Flairs magnetism and charisma distracted from and offset his limited
ability in the ring. The single greatest contribution that Flair ever gave to
pro wrestling was the wooo from his silly chops. First off, chops hurt - and in
my opinion they look like crap.
For Flair to demean Randy Savage and Mick Foley is outrageous! In my
opinion, as someone who has worked with all three of them (and everybody else
from that era too) Ric Flair couldn't even lace up Randy and Micks boots!
They were both hard workers and exciting innovators who at least made every
possible effort to put on some kind of a different show from night to night.
Either one of them could call a great match any time they wanted. So what if
Randy wanted to put in an even greater effort by designing a great match in
excessive detail? That is a quality, not a flaw, and Flair is too lost in time
to grasp it. Sure Flair could call a match, the exact same one over and over,
talking and telegraphing every move! I can also say that Ric was a blatant
expose every time he cut himself. Hey look, Ric Flairs blading! ...
Some great pro! If old time shooters like Ed Strangler Lewis or Frank Gotch
were to look down from the heavens Im sure theyd be more impressed with Randy
and Micks realism and psychology than Flairs phony chops and upside-down
flips into the corner, where amazingly he somehow landed right on his feet! -
only to jog down to the next corner - where he climbed right up and - even
more amazingly - took ten or fifteen seconds to maneuver his opponents hands
carefully onto his chest so he could take a phony beal back into the ring!
If done on rare occasions, such silly routines, because they are highly
amusing and entertaining, often go undetected for how ridiculously phony they are.
But this pathetic routine was performed every time Flair went blank, and let
me tell you, he went blank all the time!
As for Rics criticism of how my comeback was repetitive, all I can
say is that I felt that, logically speaking, why wouldnt I break into my
patented arsenal of best moves before going into my finish? I did, in fact, change
it up from time to time, but I also recognized that most fans completely
understood what I was doing. It made as much sense as doing the same finishing
move every night, except my finish was a series of moves. The fact that Ric
took exception to this is a simple example of his inability to fully understand ri
ng psychology.
The day after I wrestled Davey at Wembley at Summerslam 92 in front
of 86,000 fans I flew to Baltimore. They were playing a tape of the show in
the hotel bar and I was watching a tape in my room when there was a knock at my
door and low and behold both Randy and Flair stood there beaming. They each
shook my hand and I remember Flair excitedly grinning and praising me saying,
Brother, that was the greatest match Ive ever seen. The greatest!
For Ric Flair to say that I wasnt a draw is just plain ridiculous. Im
very sure that I sold enough tickets throughout my career. Who is he kidding?
Everyone knows that most of the time WCW wrestlers worked in front of empty
chairs in empty arenas. All one has to do is watch Flairs DVD to see the
empty seats and the exact same match with every opponent, whatever their shape or
size. After Vince made him redo his SNME match his days were numbered in
the WWF because he clearly wasnt what he was cracked up to be. Six weeks
later Flair was told to lose the belt to me in Saskatoon on October 12, 1992. As
I understood it, Flair declined putting me over on TV, despite the fact
that he himself had just told me that Wembley was the best match hed ever
seen ! Let alone that I was the biggest draw the WWF had in Europe and all the
foreign markets, consistently main eventing in front of, not sold out
buildings, but entirely sold out tours! And I had a very strong following in
North America too. The WWF was reeling from sex and steroid scandals at that
time and I was seen as a safe bet to carry the belt, in large part, because I
worked hard and I kept my nose clean. When I won the title in Saskatoon that
night I came back to the dressing room with a dislocated finger and a rolled
ankle, both as a result of Ric failing to tell me what he was doing in the
ring. (I generally never got hurt.)
I worked with Flair every night for a while after that and I finally
went to Vince totally exasperated and told him that I thought that Ric was
intentionally sabotaging my matches every night since Id won the belt. To be
honest, Ric always worked hard but nothing he did in the ring ever made sense.
Just when hed masterfully worked my leg hed suddenly grab a headlock and
call a long series of running high spots! Just when we had the crowd ready to
burst hed call some lame spot that would kill all the heat wed built up and I
forever found myself shaking my head at how wed have to build it up all over
again. Most of what Ric called made him look like a world beater and in some
matches Id blast him with fifteen or twenty terrific looking working punches
only to see him never go down but then finally wobble and take one of his
pathetic and comedic face bumps. Sometimes hed do his upside-down flip into
the corner two or three times in a row and in one match, only days after I won
the title, he called for a small package out of a figure four and pinned
himself without even giving me a comeback! When I finally went to Vince he scolded
me and told me that I was his champion and from here on in to take charge of
my matches - and that Flair wasnt as good as he was cracked up to be! I was
trying to respect Ric at the time but since he was heading back to WCW I
had no choice but to take control. Ric apologized to me saying he was having
problems at home but today hes telling some bullshit story about Charles
Barkley and the Ultimate Warrior.
A few months later, when I found out Id be having a one hour marathon
match at the Boston Garden with Ric, I came up with a brilliant storyline
that I ran by Vince, who loved it. When I ran it by Flair in the dressing room
the night of the show he immediately interrupted me and began telling me what
we were going to do instead. I finally had to cut him off and sadly dress him
down in front of several wrestlers saying, Ric, Im the champion and this is
how its going to go. He dropped his jaw, turned red, and took his seat,
saying, Youre the champ. He never, ever got over it either. Scott Hall was
there and often told this story to other wrestlers for years. Sadly, old Ric
still managed to mess up the timing for every fall, in what I could only see
as intentional. At the time I was furious to read in Dave Meltzers
Wrestling Observer Newsletter how Ric Flair carried me for the full sixty minutes!
Ric Flair never carried me, ever! Years later I spoke with Meltzer about
it and we cleared the air when after hearing my perspective on it he agreed
that he didnt have all the facts and told me that hed never seen the Boson
match, which was reported to him by a fan who was there. If anything, Flair was
not only notorious for sucking up to the office but generally took liberties
with his opponents who had been convinced that he was going to make them. If
you watch Flairs matches youll see that he usually made himself at the
expense of his opponents , something I was famous for not doing.
Enough about this so called great worker. He was a three dressed up as
a nine who left his opponents second guessing their own abilities after
working with him.
For shame that Ric Flair should take pot shots at Terry Funk, Mick
Foley, Savage, me or anyone else. But none of this is what infuriates me the
most.
For Flair to denounce me for my role in the infamous Survivor Series
in Montreal, all I can say is that he wasnt there and he ignores much of
the truth when it comes to the facts. The most complete and accurate written
account of the whole Montreal debacle, for anyone who is interested, is
available at brethart.com - written by Dave Meltzer. I stand proud with my head
held high for the way I handled myself and the position I took for the business
and my fellow wrestlers that fateful day. I find solace in remembering two
truly great champions, Harley Race and Dory Funk, who did call me up to tell
me they were proud of me for how I handled myself in Montreal. Thats all the
endorsement Ill ever need! Thats all I need to say about it.
Far above and beyond anything else Flair said, it is his comment about
how I exploited my loving brother Owens death that is unforgivable.
Frankly, this is such a low class blow that it is even beneath him! If he wants to
take pot shots at me as a wrestler thats bad enough, but it is reprehensible
that he would judge me for the way I handled myself in the aftermath of my
brothers death. All I can say is that I stood by Owens widow through a
fierce and bitter time, never once failing her or their children. I did what I
think Owen would have wanted me to do and I answer to Owens memory not to
Ric Flair. For him to say that I fueled the law suit because of Montreal
is ridiculous and disgusting.
I think its fair to say one had to walk in my shoes to fully comprehend the
situation and when I put my story into words in a book about wrestling that
is worth reading only then can anyone appreciate all that I lost and all
that I gave during such a difficult time. For this asshole to blindly poke me
in the eye would be like me declaring that Flair showed great cowardice when
he let Bobby Shane die in that tragic plane crash back in 75 !
Foley , Savage and Bret Hart have been doing just fine outside of the
world of wrestling. What else has Ric Flair got? Id like to punch Ric Flair
right in the nose - but Id probably have to kick somebody in the ass to do
it! In the infamous words of Dick Cheney, go f**k yourself Ric and be glad
that someone like me doesnt shove your head squarely up your ass someday.
http://boards.ign.com/legends_of_wrestling/b5946/62795690/p1
Thanks for that, an interesting read. There's some stuff there I was never aware of, and some stuff I totally disagree with. I'll get to them later.
What I don't understand is why no other wrestlers (to my knowledge) have come out and said anything similar to what Bret has said. I mean, he's pretty much worked with every big name in the sport, and yet I haven't seen anyone else saying anything at all. Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Jim Ross, Arn Anderson, Dusty Rhodes, Roddy Piper among others have all claimed Ric the greatest/one of the greatest in ring performers of our time.
Why does Bret Hart always use this criteria to put himself over as the greatest of all time? I'm damn well sure there's other wrestlers out there who haven't injured another wrestler, missed an event or never refused to put anyone over.
What I don't understand is why no other wrestlers (to my knowledge) have come out and said anything similar to what Bret has said. I mean, he's pretty much worked with every big name in the sport, and yet I haven't seen anyone else saying anything at all. Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Jim Ross, Arn Anderson, Dusty Rhodes, Roddy Piper among others have all claimed Ric the greatest/one of the greatest in ring performers of our time.
Why does Bret Hart always use this criteria to put himself over as the greatest of all time? I'm damn well sure there's other wrestlers out there who haven't injured another wrestler, missed an event or never refused to put anyone over.
fearthereaper
The Dead Shall Rise Again
I'm gonna go with any TNA wrestler. It's not their fault, though. When TNA signs a "former WWE or WCW world champion", that person is given a title shot by the next ppv. The "drug test dropouts" want to be the veteran that takes TNA and overthrows WWE. They should be lookin to help get the younger guys over. Instead they find themselves in angles involving each other. i.e. Angle vs. Booker T; Angle vs. Christian Cage; Christian vs. Rhino; Goldust vs. Kane.....oh wait, Abyss (I'm sure many of you have made the same mistake); Sting vs. Angle. that would have been awesome 10 years ago...now, who cares??
SlipKnoTonKpilS
New Member
Ric Flair.
AnthonyMango/NoFate007
A Post Is Worth A Thousand Words
Obviously, Benoit ruined his legacy with what he did. Now, they're trying to act as if he never existed. A man who was once a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame now may never be involved in it because he snapped and did such a terrible act.
Another person that's ruining their legacy, if you can count it as such, is Scott Hall. This guy was huge when he was Razor Ramon, big when he was in the nWo, and since then, his life has just been spiraling downward into nothingness. Whereas some names stay at the top (ala Shawn Michaels), I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of new wrestling fans had no idea who Scott Hall was and thought he was just some old pathetic has-been that is looking for something to occupy his time and replace the money he's wasted away. Wait a sec....
Third, I have to agree when people say Bret Hart. Ever since MSJ, he's been bitching and complaining. When you watch his interviews, he's incredibly self-serving and arrogant. Now don't get me wrong, as a performer, Bret is EASILY one of the top 3 of all time, and definitely one of my top five favorites. No one can argue that he was simply amazing. However, Bret's inability to blame himself at least partially for Survivor Series is making him seem like a spoiled little brat...some rich kid who didn't get what they wanted when they wanted it. Now more than ever, the guy who seemed like he was the nicest, most respectable of them all, seems like current day Triple H minus the family connections and power, in a way.
One person I think we can all agree hasn't even come close to ruining his legacy is the Undertaker. This guy, for his age, is still putting on the same caliber of matches that he used to ten years ago. He hasn't cheapened his feud qualities, he's obviously one of the major players, etc. The Undertaker never dies down. Its going to be a sad day in wrestling when that guy retires.
Another person that's ruining their legacy, if you can count it as such, is Scott Hall. This guy was huge when he was Razor Ramon, big when he was in the nWo, and since then, his life has just been spiraling downward into nothingness. Whereas some names stay at the top (ala Shawn Michaels), I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of new wrestling fans had no idea who Scott Hall was and thought he was just some old pathetic has-been that is looking for something to occupy his time and replace the money he's wasted away. Wait a sec....
Third, I have to agree when people say Bret Hart. Ever since MSJ, he's been bitching and complaining. When you watch his interviews, he's incredibly self-serving and arrogant. Now don't get me wrong, as a performer, Bret is EASILY one of the top 3 of all time, and definitely one of my top five favorites. No one can argue that he was simply amazing. However, Bret's inability to blame himself at least partially for Survivor Series is making him seem like a spoiled little brat...some rich kid who didn't get what they wanted when they wanted it. Now more than ever, the guy who seemed like he was the nicest, most respectable of them all, seems like current day Triple H minus the family connections and power, in a way.
One person I think we can all agree hasn't even come close to ruining his legacy is the Undertaker. This guy, for his age, is still putting on the same caliber of matches that he used to ten years ago. He hasn't cheapened his feud qualities, he's obviously one of the major players, etc. The Undertaker never dies down. Its going to be a sad day in wrestling when that guy retires.
i would have to say kane. when he first started in WWE he was this dominant, maniacal monster shrouded in secrecy and never spoke. he had a presence about him that only the undertaker rivaled. the last couple of years however, he's lost his monster persona, and has spent most of his time putting over other guys. its a real shame because there are only a few long time vets left in the game and kane has earned way more than what he currently has under his list of achievements. i'd love to see the big red machine get another title run before he hangs up his boots for good, which might be very soon
Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
I would have to say Scott Hall. He was in one of the Best WM matches and ladder matches at WM10. He was apart of the most dominate and infuential group in WCW history the NWO. Now he is no showing events. I'm actually sad when I think about what has happened to Scott Hall. When I was little I would Mark out when he was on TV in WWE and WCW. He was one of the best (IMO) and Now he's let his addictions get the best of him and he will probably never be in the ring again after what happened in TNA. It sucks the big one
M
Mugatunow
Guest
Triple H is ruining his legacy. The more he buries the other wrestlers,the more he looks like he's desperate to gain a top spot, when he already has one. This makes him look selfish and almost unrealistic as a wrestler. Triple H is only going to be remembered for the fact that he never had a realistic fued with anyone in his later years because he never lost.
Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
Triple H just recently put over Jeff Hardy in a #1 contenders match. I'm pretty sure if he wanted to he could have made it so he would win look at who he's married to. While he has buried a lot of guys in the past I think he is sterting to help put guys over. I mean his match with hardy at Armageddon was the best of the night IMO