Are all wrestlers best as heels?

[Radical Canadian Goose]

I'm guessing that this has been done before but I'll try it until my thread gets closed. In my opinion most wrestlers are way better as heels than they are faces. Yes there are the odd exception (Sting, AJ styles, Hulk Hogan (yes I said it)) but there are many many more that are way better heels.

CM Punk- I'm starting to find him annoying as hell. Never in my wildest dreams when he was the leader of SES and before that when he turned heel on Jeff Hardy did I think that I would ever get annoyed with this guy

Big Show - Man, you suck as a face, turn heel again and start scaring the heck out of us again

Mark Henry - worst babyface ever... this heel turn ....BEST OF 2011

Chris Jericho - Please the man is the worlds best heel

Bobby Roode - Can't believe Beer Money was a face team cause heel Roode is a monster

Kurt Angle - Well nuff said

John Cena - yep, I had to do it. This is not a turn Cena heel thread by any means. I'm just saying I loved Gangsta Cena

Ok, so here's the question are most wrestlers better as heels and why?

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

On a purely entertainment level, most guys are "better" as heels. It's actually quite easy in comparison to get over as a heel, rather than a face. Getting people to hate you is much easier than getting them to cheer for you... Heel material is a lot easier to write, and characters are easier to develop. I mean, think about it... Who is more intriguing, Batman or the Joker? Professor X or Magneto? Spiderman or the Green Goblin? I mean, you see the faces or the heros all the time, conquering evil and saving the day. Sometimes you just want to see the villains that spend so much time preparing their craft actually succeed! It may sound terrible, but Joker actually killing Batman was probably the best ending the serious could have ever had... A hero is only as good as his greatest villain!

That being said, there's probably a FEW guys out there that were better as a face. I mean, Hogan drew billions for years before ever turning heel. Was he "better" or more enjoyable when he did? Impossible to tell, but I doubt it. Years separate those characters, as does a whole new demographic. I always thought Macho Man was better as a face, and didn't enjoy when Hogan forced him back into his cave...

 

[Brewski]

Like Mike said it's a lot easier to get people to hate you than it is to like you. There are guys who would forever be faces like Rock, SCSA, Foley, and HBK, but even those did their best work as anti-hero types. Characters who were cocky ass kickers. Guys like RVD and Jeff Hardy will always be faces because it's hard not to cheer a gymnastic high flying performer.

 

[JaneyD]

So in a nut shell, if I would to invest in a long term deal with a wrestler, I would have a better chance in getting my superstar noticed by first making him hated?

Was it Bobby "the Brain" Heenan that said, "Its better to be hated than ignored." ?

 

[GI Cake]

Heels are generally the best chance for wrestlers to give their chance to shine and show personlty. Lets take a look at your list of wrestlers, Chris Jericho made such a great heel is because he was able to tap into his personalty and express it. He was able to garner so much heat fans would throw punches at him if he were to run through the crowd.

Mark Henry makes such a great heel because his gimmick as a face was just plain goofy. Nobody cared about Henry beating anybody because at the end of the day he would still come to the ring wearing that kool-aid red tightsuit with a big old smile as heels like The Miz would walk all over them. With Henry being a heel, he was able to make the crowd scared of him with a scowl and size to take out wrestlers like Kane and the Big Show.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

It's a lot easier to be a heel. Simple as that.

It's hard to be the nice guy while still coming across as genuine, and it's hard to do it without being bland.

You can just have so much more range when you're bad.

I always have respect for guys that can pull off a strong face character, just because it's so much more difficult. At the same time though, I also have more respect for a good heel that can maintain that heel persona even after it gets popular enough to turn face

 

[Bookman]

I think the secret to succeeding as a wrestler is to develop in the ring and on the mic as a heel and then, after a long time, the fans will get behind you and you'll naturally turn face. A great example of this is Randy Orton. He was supposed to be the next big face after winning the World Title off of Benoit. His face turn ultimately failed, however, and he turned back to heel and worked as a heel for years until he got so over for being a badass that he became face. I think in wrestling's current state that's the best way to get over.

 

[WWEgirlxx]

I agree. It's hard to be a nice, believable, genuine guy on camera. It all boils down to one thing: it's hard to please EVERYONE, but it's not hard to piss them off.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I think the fact we live in a more cynical age has a great deal to do with it, just look at John Cena. There is literally no reason that anyone should boo him - he's not forced on us anymore than Sammartino, Backlund or Hogan were; he is (generally) underrated for his in-ring prowess and he never gives anyone cause to jeer him because he literally embodies 'Hustle, Loyalty & Respect'. Or does anyone remember good ole Rocky Maivia?

It is a strange time we live in, Punk got cheers as a pure heel. Aries gets the same reaction now.

Another thing is that it's hard to be successful as either now, there as many heels getting the windbush treatment as faces these days. To me, if you can get over with the fans - then it's down to your actual likability as to whether you'll be a better face (AJ, Storm, Ryder) or heel (Roode, Bully Ray, Miz).

 

[justtxyank]

Let me echo the "it's easier to be a heel" as the reason that most wrestlers are better as heels.

To get truly over as a face you have to find a reason for me to get behind you. It can't just be because you aren't a heel. What is it about you that compels me to care about you? To care when a heel beats you up? To care if they insult you? To care if you win a match? To yearn for you to win?

When HHH was the top heel in wrestling he was good at making people hate him so much they would pay to see him lose. How many faces can make you pay money because you want to see them win that badly? It's a tough sell.

But, you listed wrestlers who were best as heels. Let me argue with one.

Big Show: When he was the Giant in WCW he had a run in late 97, early 98 where he was white hot as a face. He had a reason. A cause that I could rally to. He was taking on the nWo. They'd turned on him. Betrayed him. Then they injured him. Why? All because he had the nerve to want a title shot he earned. He went total badass, no music when he entered, destroying people. For several months, his character was as awesome as it would ever be.

 

[DirtyD79]

I would say a lot of wrestlers are better as heels but not all. Some wrestlers have too flashy a moveset to get anyone to boo them or they just plain don't look intimidating or are just too clean cut to be heels. Look at Rey Mysterio in Filthy Animals. He loooked all of 12 years old without his mask. Billy Kidman looked like some teenager who mows lawns. They got X-Pac heat.

And then there's guys like Bobby Lashley. I'm sorry but the exact second he called somebody a bathturd that pretty much killed off any potential heat he could ever get. Without managers to do the heavy lifting on promos you're gonna get a lot of these guys killing their heat just by opening their mouths. You'll have a guy being billed as Grim McSlam Eater of planets, Damner of Souls, kicker of puppies, whatever then he puts the mic up to his mouth and out comes bathturd.

It's hard for a wrestler to find a character that fits their style, their personality, their apearance, and of course their limitations. And what's more different audiences have different tastes. What draws heat in one crowd will draw pops in another, or worst of all crickets and frogs. When an audience does nothing that's when you really got problems.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Heel and face is from the perspective of the audience.

Jericho is not best as a heel, he's best as a babyface who says asshole things, same thing with the rock and Austin. I think Undertaker is better as a badass babyface who is an evil bastard. I know that "evil" and "babyface" might be hard to equate, but like I said, perspective. Shit the Legion of Doom was like that too.

Sting is clearly better as a face, never heard anyone argue otherwise.

 

[FlairFan2003]

It's easier to be entertaining as a heel because you are not limited in what you can say or do to your opponents. In fact, much of the more outrageous behavior is not only entertaining, its essential if you want people to care if the hero beats you or not.

Many of the greatest Face over heel matches of all time came about because of crazy, and very entertaining things the heel did. Randy Savage crushing Steamboat's larynx with the time keepers bell, Flair breaking Dusty's leg, The NWO Invasion, etc the list is as ling as wrestling itself.

That said, the best wrestlers often are the guys who can get the crowd into them as a heel or fan favorite with little change in character or basic presentation. CM Punk is good at that now, Orton can do that although his character works better as a heel. HHH has always been good at that, Flair & Kevin Nash are veritable masters at it.

Some guys try but just dont have the charisma to pull it off. Steamboat could never play the heel for instance. Sheamus works much better as a heel than a face, but he's serviceable. Edge was good as a face, GREAT as a heel, Piper was great at both. A lot of it has to do with the charisma and creativity of the wrestler.

In the end, because you are not as limited in what your character can do, it is easier to be heel than a hero.

 

[Mustang Sally]

It's a lot easier to be a heel. Simple as that.

True. Take Dolph Ziggler, for example. He doesn't have defined mic skills, but with good ring skills and a few growled threats, he can get over quite well as a heel. It remains to be seen if he could ever get over as a boy scout.

Making it as a face is tougher because you either have to be great on the microphone (John Cena, C.M. Punk), or you have to have a gimmick that makes people rally behind you. I submit that with Creative coming up with something like that, lots of wrestlers could make effective faces.

Consider some of the faces. There have been a few performers who have somehow become successful good guys with a comical gimmick (Santino Marella, Zack Ryder, Eugene), and some who have become sympathetic figures because of stuff that's been done to them. Of course, for that to happen, they need an evil heel to bring about their face turns (Bret Hart comes to mind, after his problems with Bad News Brown). You can name many others, too.

Occasionally, Creative comes up with face turns so seemingly illogical that they become monster turns. Undertaker and Randy Savage come to mind. Whoever would have thought they could turn face at all, yet look at the long-term success both achieved as good guys.

To summarize: Anyone can be a heel with a sufficiently nasty personality and/or ring deeds, but it's a rare performer who can attain sustained success as a face unless he's got the right program. To be a good guy, you need an counterpart who's so evil that you can't help root for the victim.

 

[Harthan]

It's easy to be a heel for one simple reason. If you're trying to be a face, and you suck at it, the crowd boos you. If you're trying to be a heel, and you suck at it...the crowd still boos you. After that, the rest follows logically. The standard heel moves seem to draw heat in just about any circumstance, while the standard face moves are difficult to get a pop out of it unless the timing is just right. When it comes down to it, a failing face can switch over to a successful heel nigh instantaneously - the inverse is not true.

As for whether wrestlers are "better" as heels, that's a difficult question to answer, considering "better" is a wildly subjective and ill defined term. From my point of view, this isn't always true. I think CM Punk has been better than ever as a face in the last eight months than he ever was as a heel - on the mainstream level, at least. At the same time, Mark Henry was a horrible face, but became one of the best heels in the game lately. Randy Orton was a better heel, or so I thought, until he had arguably one of his best years in 2011 as a face. John Cena was destined for the midcard as a heel, but as a face, he became the new top dog.

Are wrestlers unanimously better as heels? I certainly don't think so. I think it's harder to succeed as a face than it is as a heel, to be sure, but for the right guy, when they figure it out, they can be loads better as a face than they were as a heel. It all depends on the character, the booking, and the circumstances. Like many questions like this - all-encompassing and subjective (Are all wrestlers best as heel) - this is a question that has no well defined answer - because the question itself is ill-defined.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin View Post
It's a lot easier to be a heel. Simple as that.

I disagree, I actually think it's harder to be a true heel, by that I mean a heel that people genuinely hate. It's hard nowadays to accomplish that because alot of people find the "bad" things you do cool so they'll cheer. I think it would be difficult to get true heel heat, especially without resorting to cheap heat. Heels generally control more of the match and usually are a little edgier on the mic so I think that's why people seem to think wrestlers are better heels but usually those guys that you think make better heels aren't actually that good because they get pops. To get a character that the people genuinely hate I think takes talent. I mean you have to be bad enough so people don't like you but if you're too edgy people will find it cool so you'll get some pops. To find that perfect median has got to be tough.

 

[ezuvgu]

One of the things Russo absolutely was right about was that wrestling needs to have more shades of gray, although that idea (like many Russo ideas) would probably be executed better in the hands of a more talented booker. Most wrestlers do not get over at all as a face, while many heels get cheered despite their status as heels.

The way to find the right middle ground would be to basically have no "face" or "heel" designations, but instead just have wrestlers play specific characters and do whatever is logical from the perspective of each character. Some characters might be face-like. Others might be heel-like. Many will be somewhere in-between. Let the fans cheer who they want and boo who they want. There would be none of the awkward situations where former enemies are suddenly teaming with each other just because one of them recently turned.

Cena was my favorite wrestler when he was a heel, but he is beyond awful as a face. I was a big fan of CM Punk and was glad to see him pushed until they brought him back and gave him the obnoxious gimmick he has now (his comment about the WWE Title being "uninteresting" because it was held by Del Rio was inexcusable and sounded like the kind of crap face Cena is always saying). Beer Money was a great heel team in 2010, but they were also a very good face team in 2011. TNA made the right decision by booking their main event push the way they did, as they chose the right face and the right heel. I like Kurt Angle as a face or a heel, although I haven't liked his current heel run that much. Matt Morgan is a horrible face (especially during the concussion angle period) and a very good heel.

Certain wrestlers absolutely cannot play a heel. AJ Styles, Sting, and Ricky Steamboat qualify as examples of natural faces that shouldn't be turned heel. I would not put Jeff Hardy on that list, since I like his heel promos better than his face promos. Hardy's heel run was ill-fated however as he never really had a great match and with the way it ended at Victory Road.