Attention IWC! Heels suck. Get over it.

[Uncle Sam]

I don't really have a problem with anything in the OP except the notion that good guys should always win. In the crude carnival show/soap opera that is professional wrestling, I don't have a problem with that. People don't tune in to see sophisticated psychological drama that keeps you guessing. They tune in, I presume, to see stuff like Sting disguising himself by wearing a Sting mask. Though I think even that might be atypically complex.

I just made the inference that you're implying good guys winning always makes a more compelling story in all forms of media - perhaps presumptively. I suppose it's neither here or there in a discussion about professional wrestling, but I disagree.

Just a quick example that faces should always ultimately win before I go. When I learned that Chris Jericho beat Edge at WrestleMania, this was quite literally my expression:

 

[The Pagan]

However, add in the fact that the very definition of the word heel is a person that you find to be despicable and contemptible, and then you can understand why you can't like a heel. If you like a heel, then they aren't really a heel.

Exactly!!!! I hate Cena, therefore to me he is a heel.

I like Edge, Jericho, Orton, etc...so they are always going to be faces to me.

It is all about perception. If I like someone then they are a face to me. If I don't like them then they are a heel. I don't really care who the writers are TRYING to make me like and hate.

And as far as you judging people....Shut the Fuck Up!!! People are free to like who they want for whatever reason they like. If someone's favorite wrestler is John Boy X because he has 8 toes on his foot....that's their choice. Who the hell are you to tell them they are wrong....some douchebag on the internet....get the fuck over yourself. And I would think of you as a heel....so therefore

 

[ZeroVX]

Sly, I think the problem is that you're automatically associating every person who says "I like heels" with people who cheer heels at live events for the sake of cheering heels. You know that that can't be the case.

I can like a wrestler because of his work as a heel, but that doesn't automatically mean I'll cheer them when I see them at a live show. Likewise, I can dislike a wrestler because they can't work well as a face, but that doesn't mean I'll automatically boo them.

The whole "he would be better as a heel" argument is used when a wrestler is failing as a face for whatever reason. Take John Morrison for example. As a face, he's bland, boring, and has been stuck with R-Truth on RAW because he can't get people to care about him, outside of his in-ring abilities. As a heel back on ECW, however, he was at least able to draw some degree of heat. Hence why some people keep saying he should go back to being a heel.

As for the dictionary definition of heel, it really doesn't matter here. In wrestling, heel just became the codeword for the bad guy in a match or a feud. Considering way back in the olden days, they worked in kayfabe 24/7, so they had to use words in ways only they would get. The actual definition of heel doesn't work in this argument.

If you want to call people who cheer heels and defeat the purpose of being a heel stupid, that's one thing. Calling everyone who likes heels stupid is something else.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Exactly!!!! I hate Cena, therefore to me he is a heel.

I like Edge, Jericho, Orton, etc...so they are always going to be faces to me.

It is all about perception. If I like someone then they are a face to me. If I don't like them then they are a heel. I don't really care who the writers are TRYING to make me like and hate.

And as far as you judging people....Shut the Fuck Up!!! People are free to like who they want for whatever reason they like. If someone's favorite wrestler is John Boy X because he has 8 toes on his foot....that's their choice. Who the hell are you to tell them they are wrong....some douchebag on the internet....get the fuck over yourself. And I would think of you as a heel....so therefore

If that's your perception, then I feel sorry for you.

It's not as simple as somebody being a face because you like them and being a heel because you hate them.

The thing people don't get is that you can show respect to a heel by booing them. Booing a heel is the same thing is cheering a face. You're showing the wrestler that they are doing their job well.

 

[The Pagan]

If that's your perception, then I feel sorry for you.

It's not as simple as somebody being a face because you like them and being a heel because you hate them.

The thing people don't get is that you can show respect to a heel by booing them. Booing a heel is the same thing is cheering a face. You're showing the wrestler that they are doing their job well.

I was going off the definition provided by Sly. And it IS quite that simple.

And it is stupid to boo someone you like. That is quite simple. If a heel wants to be booed they should stick to 5 moves like Cena. I find it stupid to boo someone because the writers have them acting like an asshole. If someone is good....cheer them....if they suck boo them....Simple as that.

Just because you want to play along with the kids...that's your choice(I feel sorry for you). I myself will cheer for who I want to win the match.

 

[AndyUK]

Well, I agree with most of your points and I don't like how people complain about Cena winning all the time considering the good guy winning is the logical conclusion to most stories but in a world where we're not kids anymore and we know wrestling isn't real, there shouldn't be a problem with people not hating heels because at the end of the day, they're only characters on a TV show.

Most people on this board don't want wrestling to see the heel get their ass kicked, they watch it because it entertains them tremendously. If you're a smark and you're a fan of the way a worker portrays his heel character then I don't see what is wrong with that. It's just like being a fan of an actor's performance as a villain in a film.

 

[RD_21]

So you will tell me that you can't like The Joker in The Dark Knight even if Heath Ledger did an amazing performance because he is the bad guy?

I am not a kid anymore I know that wrestling is staged and I have respect for people who know their job and know how to do it good. Even if Jericho come in my town and tell me I am an hypocrithe I will cheer for him and respect him for everything he did and his doing, for his ability to create the heat he is getting, he is simply awesome.

Same thing with Punk, I always loved him and keep loving him even if he's a heel, anyway he is mostly right and he shouldn't be a heel base on his message in a PG environnement but I disgress.

I want Cena to become heel become the super-Cena thing is bland. If he turn heel it will break the hearth of the kids and they will be able to create a new monster face by going against this new monster heel. The topic to me is more dumb than people liking heel, I mean like someone said who are you to tell people who they should or shouldn't like.

I know you have a good knowledge of the business and I know that cheering heel to be cool is dumb, but you will tell me that you don't like any heel or respect their work with the understanding of the business that you have?

I like Kane even if he is a monster because the guy busted his ass for the company and they could always count on him, plus his mic skill is really good lately.

I guess I just see the performer behind the character and that's why I will NEVER cheer The Great Khali no matter how face he is, that to me is dumb, liking a heel who deserve it isn't.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I've never said someone should turn face/heel, but fuck it.

1) Faces are what draws. No one pays to see bad people, if they did, prison would be a fucking carny show.

I pay to watch talented individuals wrestle. Who's good and who's evil is totally irrelevant. Guys who entertain me in the ring and on the mic (but more importantly, in the ring) i cheer for. People i think suck, get boo'ed. The wrestling world doesn't like it, tough. There are so many waste of space wrestlers on certain rosters or guys who just churn out the same old tired routine over and over, that the guys who stand out deserve to be praised.

Furthermore, if no one pays to see the heels, why do they make sell t-shirts for the heels?

2) Heels are supposed to be disliked. If you don't dislike them, they're not really a heel, now are they? And for the ignorant people out there, "heel" is not just a wrestling term, it's an actual word. Look up the meaning, and then see why you sound like a moron when you say you like a heel.

Loads of people like to root for the bad guy in lots of different situations. Certain women purposely get romanticaly involved with assholes. And even when they are victim of that person's nature, they STILL go back for more. Are you saying that because the girl still loves him that he's not still an asshole?

3) Good guys always beat bad guys. This isn't just in wrestling, this is in all forms of popular media in America, and probably around the world. People always whine about how John Cena wins matches...well, no fucking duh, he's a good guy, and the good guy should always win at the end of the day.

WHAT? Fuck off do the good guys always win. In movie trilogys, the second film usually ends up with the hero suffering a major disaster or one of the heroes dying.

A know loads of people who think 'The Empire Strikes Back' is the best of the orignal Star Wars trilogy, because it doesn't have a happy ending.

Did The Dark Knight have a happy ending? Or did his friend go crazy and get killed, the love of his life get blown up, he's blamed and hunted by the city and his most dangerous enemy to date is waiting to strike at him again? So yeah sorry, no the heroes don't always win. It'd be petty fucking boring if they won all the time and no one would watch would they?

4) Heels win only so a bigger face can beat them. This is very important, and what so many of you don't understand. If a heel is made to look strong, it's ONLY so a face gets a bigger reaction when he beats him. This idea that a heel is getting buried is complete nonsense because THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT!

Burying a heel is pointless. Take CM Punk right now. Why would i believe that he would be a threat to ANYONE. If they announced CM Punk versus John Cena at a PPV, i'd be willing to bet money that either Punk would get squashed in under a minute, or he'd hit no more than 2 moves and win by cheating.

Obviously they use 'cheating' to achieve more heel heat, but in situations like Punk v Taker in HIAC last year, why would i believe for a second that CM Punk was going to beat the Undertaker in the match that Taker innovated and has been in the majority of, plus he's bigger, stronger, heavier, more experienced than Punk and has literally just come back fresh from having time off.

On top of that, Punk struggled to beat Jeff Hardy of all people, who spent the better part of 2 years losing to guys like Orton, Edge and HHH, gaining maybe a couple of wins over each of them. In 2 YEARS.

If Hardy rarely ever beat them, and Punk struggles to beat Hardy, why would i then think Punk would beat The Undertaker, ESPECIALLY when Taker got screwed by Punk at the previous PPV. As you say Sly, heels only win so the face can beat them thoroughly next time, so again, i ask every single person who's ever said 'Taker shouldn't have buried Punk at HIAC' why the fuck would you even entertain the notion that CM Punk had any chance of beating The Undertaker in one of his own speciality matches?

And note, i haven't even taken into account any of the politics bullshit here.

This year he's faced Rey Mysterio like 3 or 4 PPVs in a row, and lost all of those matches. He's now fueding with Big Show, and again is losing repeatedly and being made to look like a mid-card nothing.

When they dispand the SES and he's on his own again, face or heel, why would i believe he'd have any chance of beating any other guy who's ever been in the ME? He'd have to beat all of them at least once without a single loss for me to think he's got a chance of being any kind of threat to the faces.

I'm sure there are other things I could admonish those in the IWC on, but this is a start. For those of you who actually thought heels matter for a reason other than to get a face over, post your shame here. And quit saying you like heels, because you sound like an idiot.

Of course they only exist to put over the heels, but if they themselves are insigificant, how does it help the face when they beat them? Look at Eddie Guerrero's WWE title win over Brock Lesnar. Lesnar had creamed everyone for months and then suddenly little Eddie Guerrero, who everyone is thinking is simply getting a title match because they never put any thought into the PPV title matches in the month prior to Wrestlemania.

And look what happened. Eddie won. It was a feel good moment for everyone. The funny Mexican guy who's busted his ass from coast to coast, battled addiction and then floated around in WWE mid-card limbo for years, actually beat the unstoppable champion.

Now, would it have had the same impact that night if he'd beaten the champion when it was someone like Santino, who never beats anyone and hell, doesn't even win his own titles?

So yes heels have one purpose, but no way are they unimportant.

 

[xmulderx]

What the fuck is wrong with so many of you? It seems like your answer for everything boring is "turn him heel". Or, and this one is popular, "if he'd turn heel, I'd like him a lot more". Why? Are you all so incompetent as to see that heels suck? Do you twits even understand what the term "heel" means? How can you like a heel? It doesn't make any sense.

1) Faces are what draws. No one pays to see bad people, if they did, prison would be a fucking carny show.

2) Heels are supposed to be disliked. If you don't dislike them, they're not really a heel, now are they? And for the ignorant people out there, "heel" is not just a wrestling term, it's an actual word. Look up the meaning, and then see why you sound like a moron when you say you like a heel.

3) Good guys always beat bad guys. This isn't just in wrestling, this is in all forms of popular media in America, and probably around the world. People always whine about how John Cena wins matches...well, no fucking duh, he's a good guy, and the good guy should always win at the end of the day.

4) Heels win only so a bigger face can beat them. This is very important, and what so many of you don't understand. If a heel is made to look strong, it's ONLY so a face gets a bigger reaction when he beats him. This idea that a heel is getting buried is complete nonsense because THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT!



I'm sure there are other things I could admonish those in the IWC on, but this is a start. For those of you who actually thought heels matter for a reason other than to get a face over, post your shame here. And quit saying you like heels, because you sound like an idiot.

Mate, this is pretty much all nonsense. Who is better to watch in a ring: Jericho or Cena? Who does WWE intend to be a heel? Who would I pay to go see? Y2J.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

Mate, this is pretty much all nonsense.

No your post in pretty much all nonsense as it adds nothing at all to this discussion.

Who is better to watch in a ring: Jericho or Cena?

Moot point mate, how does one being better in the ring than the other have anything to do with them being a heel or a face? It doesn't man, besides both do their jobs in the ring and do them well. Is Jericho the better wrestler? He is. Is Cena the better entertainer by majority? He is. Again though doesn't make a difference is why they are a heel or a face.

Who does WWE intend to be a heel? Who would I pay to go see? Y2J.

Of course they intend on Jericho being the heel, that's obvious. Good for you if you would pay to go see him, that's your right, however do Chris Jericho the favor of booing him, and show him you respect his work as a heel. If you don't like Cena, fine don't cheer him, don't do anything.

You people need to realize that indifference is what makes or breaks a wrestler's momentum, push and popularity. Let's say in this scenario that everyone in the arena LOVED all the heels and hated all the faces on the card. So they boo the faces and cheer the heels, do you think Vince cares? No, because they are all getting reactions, which means you are if anything paying attention to them. Now let's say you boo all the heels, but yet the entire arena is silent when the faces come out, do you think Vince cares? Hell yes, it shows him no one is interested in his faces, so then he will have to change things up.

You people can like and hate who you want, but boo the heels, cheer the faces and be indifferent to those you don't like. The indifference is what will make the changes happen, more often than not.

 

[McFly High]

because i root for heels more than i rule for faces makes me an idiot? i gotcha.



did it ever occur to you that i find the heels right now entertaining? im not going to root for somebody because thats what im supposed to do. if you suck, you suck. heel or face. I can sincerely say i find a Dashing Cody Rhodes more entertaining than a John Cena. Just the same way i find a Kaval and Danielson more entertaining than a Ziggler or DiBiasse JR.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

because i root for heels more than i rule for faces makes me an idiot? i gotcha.

Don't know who this directed at, but I'm guessing not me as I never stated people who root for heels are idiots, but I'll respond anyways. I'm not saying you are an idiot for rooting for heels. More power to you, I heavily root for The Miz, I love him, but I do not actually cheer him, I still boo him, which shows respect to The Miz. It shows him that I am paying attention to him, and that he is playing his heel role good.

did it ever occur to you that i find the heels right now entertaining? im not going to root for somebody because thats what im supposed to do. if you suck, you suck. heel or face. I can sincerely say i find a Dashing Cody Rhodes more entertaining than a John Cena. Just the same way i find a Kaval and Danielson more entertaining than a Ziggler or DiBiasse JR.

Then don't root for them. But don't acknowledge them either. What I am trying to say, if you don't like them and want something done about it, don't even bother booing them, do nothing. When a wrestler gets a reaction whether it's the right one or not, it is still a reaction, which shows management that you are still being entertained and watching it. If you sit there and don't do anything, or even go take a piss, it will show management you don't want to see this wrestler for whatever reason and if that happens enough, you'll get your wish and something will change.

 

[McFly High]

Don't know who this directed at, but I'm guessing not me as I never stated people who root for heels are idiots, but I'll respond anyways. I'm not saying you are an idiot for rooting for heels. More power to you, I heavily root for The Miz, I love him, but I do not actually cheer him, I still boo him, which shows respect to The Miz. It shows him that I am paying attention to him, and that he is playing his heel role good.





Then don't root for them. But don't acknowledge them either. What I am trying to say, if you don't like them and want something done about it, don't even bother booing them, do nothing. When a wrestler gets a reaction whether it's the right one or not, it is still a reaction, which shows management that you are still being entertained and watching it. If you sit there and don't do anything, or even go take a piss, it will show management you don't want to see this wrestler for whatever reason and if that happens enough, you'll get your wish and something will change.

i was directing the post to the threadstarter.

but you're right about one thing. when im not a fan of a face, i just dont cheer or do anything. even though i believe Cena is good dude in real life, i feel his gimmick has been stale for 2 years now.i dont boo or cheer for the guy. i just dont respond. Even though Jericho is a heel, he's my favorite wrestler, i just cant help but chant his name. (Even though booing him will show respect, i just dont have it in me to do that).

 

[LigerBomb]

The problem of course stems from the meta-analysis and post-kayfabe realities of modern Pro-wrestling. Like many who grew up watching a kayfabe product, there came a day when the genie escaped the bottle and I learned the business was, for lack of a more appropriate term, 'fake'. While I can't pinpoint the exact moment, somewhere between then and now I stopped being a casual fan of the business and more of a critic and commentator. Mind you this critique wasn't for external consumption but rather internal satisfaction and entertainment as it became the new way I derived enjoyment from the art of pro-wrestling.

As such, when I cheer Chris Jericho I'm really cheering Chris Irvine the man who is portraying the (currently) heel character Chris Jericho. And I cheer not because I "like the bad guy" but instead because I applaud the work Mr. Irvine is doing. Much like Sly I firmly understand that a heel's only job is to get heat, (hence my appreciation for Jericho as he understands that fact and actively rejects "cool heel" characterization and clichés) much as it is the face's job to get over.

Pro-wrestling isn't complicated. At its core it's episodic storytelling—in the sub-genre of the morality play—that centers around heroes and villains, their conflicts and eventual resolutions. As much as people clamor for change and deviation, this basic truth of the business is rather firmly entrenched. And it's for good reason, as it forms the foundation of the industry. There's an old expression "Methods are many, principles are few. Methods may change, principles never do."

So as times change and characters go from black and white to shades of gray you can be forgiven—to an extent—when the shit-heel (–noun; a contemptibly dishonorable or irresponsible person) becomes entertaining enough that you enjoy his/her performance more than that of the baby-face*. It's most definitely your right to do so.

However, at the end of the day you should divorce that sentiment from the nature of the character, the overlying storyline—and more importantly the villain's place within it—and understand why the bad guy doesn't win, is booked to lose, is made to look weak and foolish, etc. (and whatever other gripes you may have). Similarly you should understand the role of the baby-face and his characterization and why he does what he does and seemingly wins—as heroes are know to do—against all odds and in potentially unbelievable fashion.

That last bit becomes especially true when you recall that the current WWE product is targeted towards younger fans and as such will rely on relatively simple character archetypes and story structures purely for the sake of clarity and viewer comprehension.





*Though as an aside, because a heel's only job is to get heat—or depending how you look at it; get the baby-face over—a heel that is liked and cheered (not for the entertainer's performance but for his actions and character choices) really isn't doing his job all that well. If you "like the heel" and want him to win instead, he's by and large made two critical errors. 1. Through his performance he has broken the viewer's ability to suspend disbelief and pulled them out of the story 2. (and more importantly) if he's liked more than the face, and gets over at the expense of the face, congratulations you (as the heel) just buried the face and the whole overall program the two of you are working because he's going to be the guy eventually winning (not you, Duh!) and potentially moving on to a bigger feud, becoming hot, having a good run on top and making the company more money which you in turn get a piece of. So you basically did the exact opposite of the job you're being paid to do and possibly hurt your own bottom line in the long run. You made the face look bad, and in a way yourself as well becuase you lost to the guy people hate. You've also set up problems for the face's next program and made the next heel's job that much harder as he attempts to undo your damage. Again, this is why Jericho, for example, is an excellent heel.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I have to agree with you Sly for the most part.

Its a known fact its easier for a wrestler to get over as a heel because its easier to push peoples buttons than it is to get people to like you, its simple human psychology, most people hate a lot more people than they like (or at least don't care for them).

I also agree that faces should go over the heels, but not all the time, if heels lose all the time then it won't mean anything when the faces do win, but sometimes its better for a heel to win in the beginning so at the end of the feud/storyline the face can win, and on top of that it will mean more. Take for example the Summerslam main event, it would have benefited the storyline a lot more if Nexus beat team WWE because its obvious the story is still going on (the RAW win helped a bit I'll admit). It kind of goes hand in hand with your 4th rule, the heel should win to put over a bigger baby face. If Nexus didn't lose clean they would be built up that much more, so when the WWE finally did beat Nexus it would have meant so much more, if Nexus did win at the end of the day it would have benefited EVERYONE more than it did having them lose.

Another thing is turning someone heel from a face can help them get over more (like I said before) for when they become a face. Take for example Randy Orton, when he first became face (in '04 right after he won the World Title) he wasn't that over with the crowd, so it made sense to turn him heel because it worked, so the WWE did. Through the years he went from a regular heel, to the most hated person in the WWE, to getting some cheers and now he's the most over face in the WWE right now(a tweener technically, but he's booked as a face) probably even more than John Cena. Without that heel turn Orton never would have become the face he is today. When it comes to building wrestlers, a lot of times heel is the way to go because it gets them more over with the crowd, so when they do turn face they get a larger reaction then they would have initially. Of course there are exceptions to the rule (like Steamboat) but a heel turn can help out over time.

In John Cena's case its pretty stupid because he's their #1 face and he's already hugely over and popular. I would like to see Cena heel I admit, but its for selfish reasons because I enjoyed the old Cena better. Frankly, it would be idiotic to make him heel now. Like Hogan he shouldn't become heel until his fanfare has worn out (like when Hogan joined the nWo).

So all in all I agree with you for the most part, but there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[Undying777]

Im sorry OP but I have to disagree with you on this.

I think being upset and calling us names just because we cheer for heels in a staged show is stupid. Ok (Kayfade) we should not cheer for the bad guy doing bad things. I get that but for me kayfade went out the window the day I found out that wrestling was staged. Ever since then, I watch wrestling like I am watching a movie. I cheer for the actor or the entertainer who is entertaining me the most. I don't cheer their actions I cheer their ability to make it look real. I cheer their ability to suck me into the storyline and not want to change the channel. IMO the heels are better at doing that.

EG.. Batman Dark Night.. Awesome movie. Christian Bale did a good job but we all know Heath Ledger stole the show. Did I cheer when The Joker bombed the hospital? No!! But I did cheer the acting abilities of Heath, who made that scene in the movie so entertaining.

 

[The Crimson Mask]

I agree heels need should be booed and that there main purpose is to put over faces. Wrestling is a never ending storyline however, so a heel winning a feud is necessary. If the faces always win it becomes monotenous. John Cena is our current example of that. Everyone is sick of him winning. He never really faces adversity for long. He always prevails. Would he draw less if Nexus dominated him at Summerslam or would his character become deeper by haveing more adversity to overcome?

 

[LigerBomb]

I agree heels need should be booed and that there main purpose is to put over faces. Wrestling is a never ending storyline however, so a heel winning a feud is necessary.

The OP said as much by reiterating the fact that heels can, and should win, if only to make their eventual downfall matter more.

If the faces always win it becomes monotenous.

And very profitable. Cena, Rock/Austin, Hogan, Sammartino etc.; WWE is a face "territory" always has been, probably always will be.

John Cena is our current example of that. Everyone is sick of him winning.

Not the kiddies buying the merch and filling the arenas.

He never really faces adversity for long. He always prevails. Would he draw less if Nexus dominated him at Summerslam or would his character become deeper by haveing more adversity to overcome?

His team imploded from the inside, he faced opposition and interference from a jealous outsider, he was outnumbered and the victim of a nasty out of ring beating (including a brutal DDT to the floor), then through will, determination, and exploiting his opponents' inexperience (their only obvious weakness) he narrowly escaped defeat. Seems to me like he overcame a decent deal of adversity in that match.

 

[SickJames]

Superheros are what I want to bring up here. We actually arent morons I mean Superman is popular, but he's not as exciting because you know he's gonna win moreso than others, I mean if I'm not as interested in him as Batman because only cryptonite can beat him. See I like him, but I'm just bored with him.

Batman is not arguably greater, he is the best superhero of all time. He's human which makes him better having no super powers, having legit threats to his life more than any other big name superhero and he's intelligent and really better than Superman though they try to pin him as the head guy of the Justice League, when they are at that table Batman always catches on to things no one else does and sits silently listening & thinking then he speaks, they listen and he's like a true leader.

But not to get too off topic here, I'm just making a point that Batman is a face, but isnt like Superman face where he always will come out on top no matter what, with the faces like Cena we dont get that threat like Rock had with HHH in the Attitude Era, Cena doesnt even get screwed much. It sucks and ppl LOVE The Joker. More ppl loved The Dark Knight for him than Batman, so no we arent screwed up. Heels can be fun, bad things are enjoyable. Just like ppl have "weird" freaky painful fetishes

The Joker would be way over as a character in WWE, hell look at Doink, while no Joker, he was a good heel.

I just think that being a face that ppl know will always dominate is gonna make ppl hate you, but Batman unlike Superman for example can connect more to the ppl by being one of them, but also having more struggles and more realism, because no one wins all the time, thats another good lesson to teach kids and Cena doesnt lose enough. Rock & Austin loss a good amount. Cena's character is going BACKWARDS to the time of Hogan and ppl are over that shit, we want Batman & Joker not Superman & Darkside is basically what I'm saying, we love faces & heels, but right now we have more heels we like because the faces are fucking predictable like Superman and unrealistic in terms of me ppl being on the edge of their seats because this face may not make it.

Batman can be in legit trouble, Superman 99.9% of the time cant, Cryptonite is rarely even used in his TV show.

No one wants to see faces win every feud overall. Heels should win sometimes and matches more, not faces always winning week to week, it also becomes fucked up because if a guy is a face oh he wins a lot, but when he's a heel he loses a lot. That makes no sense. In reality if a guy was a trained marine he's doing good by defending his country, he has the SAME skills if he decides to then be a criminal. What I'm getting at it he can be as successful in getting away with his crimes being more skilled than an amateur criminal so he switches from good guy to bad, but so what if he still has his skill? If a wrestler is high level and skilled switching to bad and losing makes them look bad as an athelete, it sucks they should still win. if thats how it is for Jericho btw then when HHH turns heel I wanna see him lose a lot and put over Evan, Daniel, Kaval & McIntyre then. He wont because he's HHH, but Jericho is on his level and he has to lay down?! ...bullshit!

The Undertaker is a good example of keeping realism with his skill, legacy, star power whether heel or face because he doesnt lose much but does lose but looks good for his character, but isnt boring, thing is he's perfectly booked really because his character shouldnt put too many over clean but rather by being screwed, so why cant Jericho be like this as a heel? I'm not saying put no one over but this is about not losing like Kane. That's a damn good example even though he's World Champ now look at his career compared to Taker's.

Paranormal as well and shouldnt have been tarnished, but was. HHH would never be tarnished like that, Kane shouldnt have either. They wouldnt have had Austin lay down for Evan Bourne & lose 3 straight times PPV & Raws.




Just an example. I've basically covered what I wanted to cover