AMAZING post articulating why I hate Cena so much

[Crocker]

Spoiler

Seth Rollins is the current WWEWHC. He got that title by cashing in mid-match during Reigns vs. Lesnar at Wrestlemania 31. He pinned Reigns, not Lesnar, in a move clearly designed to protect both those guys as much as possible. One thing was very clear, though: Brock Lesnar never lost the title, it was stolen from him.

Lesnar originally won the title off John Cena in a squash match at Summerslam 2014, and then retained in a couple of somewhat competitive rematches at NoC 2014 and the Royal Rumble, where a injured rib did not stop him from destroying and pinning Seth Rollins. We all know the story.
Lesnar, who was entitled to a rematch with Rollins, had to wait until Battleground to get it. And of course, he dominated the match because he's been an absolute monster since Mania 30 and nobody can put a dent in him, except a select few. One of those select few is the Undertaker, who interfered and cost Lesnar the match. Taker went on to get a dirty win over Lesnar.

Meanwhile, Cena and Rollins exchanged wins over the US title. Cena beat Rollins a number of times, all clean (or almost all, I can't remember). And Rollins beat Cena once for the US title via the dreaded Jon Stewart run-in (I believe Sammartino lost the title the exact same way).

So what we have here is this: Lesnar is god. Taker and Cena cannot beat Lesnar cleanly, but can be competitive with him. Reigns can as well, providing Lesnar runs into a pole. Rollins can't touch him and all of those guys have or probably can beat Rollins one-on-one. But Rollins is the WWEWHC.

Expanding on that, guys like Neville, who have competitive matches with Stardust, have had Rollins beat.

And all of this, all of these moments of weaknesses or outright clean losses for the WWEWHC make one thing perfectly clear to fans: The WWEWHC is not better than John Cena. He's not better than Brock Lesnar. He's not better than the Undertaker. He's good, but those guys are great.

And for a chickenshit champion, that's fine. But when you factor in other things, like CM Punk's big 'ol title reign that was a complete afterthought to Cena's "worst year ever" when he won MITB, the Royal Rumble, and beat Brock Lesnar, or the fact that John Cena has only suffered ten clean losses in the past ten years (Source) it's hard to make the argument that anyone who is not John Cena, Brock Lesnar, or the Undertaker is championship material.

Because there's an unseen title around the waists of these guys. A title that says "Yeah, I'm not the champion. But I'm better than the champion and I can beat him anytime I want." And to fans, these titles are all too apparent.
And it hurts the product, in the end. It hurts the roster to have one or two guys at the top who are untouchable and everyone else so far below them. Because everyone knows that Rusev isn't beating Cena. Everyone knows that Big Show isn't beating Lesnar. And even when that does happen, even when a Kevin Owens beats John Cena clean...Cena turns around and beats him twice and makes him tap. And what is Owens doing right now? He's feuding with Ryback, another guy who once lost a feud with Cena.

And the trend continues. Because everyone knows that Roman Reigns is not going to lose. So there is no real suspense to any part of the show involving one of these guys. It's only when they have a match with each other that anybody really gets that "big match" feeling where outcomes aren't obvious.
Taker vs. Lesnar? That's a Summerslam main event. Lesnar vs. Reigns? That's a Wrestlemania main event. Lesnar vs. Rollins? That's a Battleground main event. You see the difference? And how did that Battleground main event end? With a real contender to Lesnar, the Undertaker, interfering and Rollins vanishing into thin air, like his existence was something not to even be concerned about.

And of course, there is no solution to this issue at this point. You can't devalue Lesnar or Taker or even Cena. You can't have guys start racking up wins on these guys because fans are accustomed to them being at a certain level. Every time Cena loses, his merch sales dip. So WWE has him get his win back in convincing fashion. Brock Lesnar won't lose cleanly to anyone but the top guy to be (Roman Reigns). Undertaker is on the edge of retirement, and gave Lesnar mega-credibility after WWE's abysmal booking of Lesnar upon his return on 2012. So as it stands now, all these guys live in the stratosphere above the rest of the roster. And then WWE stands around wondering where all the stars are and why the ratings are sinking.

Undertaker exists to put over Lesnar. Lesnar exists to put over (probably) Reigns. Cena exists to be put over. The midcard has zero credibility, and the feuds they have with each other will elevate nobody, because none of them have any kind of status to the fans. I'm supposed to be impressed that you beat Ryback and Durph Zurgle? Those guys couldn't even get one hit in on Brock Lesnar.

And that's why nobody's watching.

TL;DR: There is a belt around John Cena's waist that says "You can't see me" and it is the most prestigious title in the WWE.

Spoiler

Building off of /u/ZigZagDUCK's awesome post, I wondered when Cena avenged his losses.

I'm considering avenged losses in the same feud. Years down the line usually doesn't count, but apparently Batista specifically referenced his 2008 win in their 2010 feud.

Shawn Michaels, RAW, April 23, 2007
Avenged Loss: WWE Backlash 2007 (April 29, 2007) (def. Michaels, Edge, and Orton)
Days Between Loss and Avenged Win: 6 Days
Great Khali, SNME, June 2, 2007
Avenged Loss: WWE One Night Stand 2007 (June 3rd 2007)
Days Between Loss and Avenged Win: 1 Day (Not Counting Tape Delay)
Triple H, Night of Champions 2008
Avenged Loss: N/A (NOTE: May have avenged loss months or years down the line, but not in the same feud.)
Batista, Summerslam 2008
Avenged Loss: Wrestlemania 2008 (March 28, 2010)
Days Between Loss and Avenged Win: 588 Days (I Don't Want to include this one since it was almost two years since the loss and it didn't avenge the original match in any way, but someone in the comments wanted it included.)
Big Show, RAW, March 30, 2009
Avenged Loss: Wrestlemania 25 (April 5, 2009) (def. Edge and Big Show)
Days Between Loss and Avenged Win: 6 Days
Randy Orton, Hell in a Cell 2009
Avenged Loss: WWE Bragging Rights 2009 (October 25, 2009)
Days Between Loss and Avenged Win: 21 Days
The Rock, Wrestlemania 28
Avenged Loss: Wrestlemania 29 (April 7, 2013)
Days Between Loss and Avenged Win: 371 Days
Daniel Bryan, Summerslam 2013
Avenged Loss: N/A
Brock Lesnar, Summerslam 2014
Avenged Loss: N/A
Kevin Owens, EC 2015
Avenged Loss: N/A

 

[therockiswwf]

So remember when Rikishi ran over Austin? Yeah well Austin chose not to press charges (which you can't exactly do but it is a TV show so whatever). Yet when Austin wanted to run down Rikishi, everyone told him not too because he would be arrested. Well if Austin didn't press charges, then maybe Rikishi wouldn't mind getting run over that much and not press charges as well. So they should have told Austin that he might go to jail if he runs over Rikishi and not that he will go to jail.

Anyways my point is Rikishi didn't do it for The Rock, he did it for John Cena.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Can we be blessed with a Tim Rule?

 

[John McCass]

I won't lie and I read this. The question still arises "Why can't Cena win every match he is going to participate in, for his character confines him to"?

EDIT: And there are lots of posts around the internet that would prove you are wrong.

Spoiler

http://camelclutchblog.com/wwe-john-cena-deserves-better/
https://www.wattpad.com/65204938-why-john-cena-doesn't-suck-my-opinion

The bottomline is that all of these are someone's opinion and you can't alter someone's mindset. Your opinion is not a fact. Neither is mine.

 

[Rayne]

TL;DR version: John Cena is presented as popular and I resent popular things, and my favorite performers should be getting what he gets.

Make sure to express your disapproval by wearing your "Never Shuts Up" T-shirt to a RAW taping and express your opinion with a sick burn on a sign. Don't forget to tell people on the Internet afterwards that you were the loudest person there chanting 'John Cena sucks'.

 

[BaconBits]

You are so incredibly cliché in your opinion that you had to plagiarize some other smarktastic loser on Reddit to make your point.


I don't think I've ever seen anything as pathetic as this on this forum.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

I definitely agree with you. I'm not sure why people can't understand this.

 

[A11oftheLights]

I definitely agree with you. I'm not sure why people can't understand this.

It's not that we dont understand it is more that we find it pathetic. As baconbits said it cliche and at the end of the day he's just sooking because his favourite wrestler isnt getting booked exactly how he wants

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Except you've spent the last two months ******* off about a variety of reasons that you hate him. Now we are supposed to believe there is just one reason.

I'm starting to have trust issues with you Crocker.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

But people like you don't hate Cena. You're infatuated with him. You act like a bitter nerd who likes the "popular" girl at the school, but knows he has no shot, so you tear her down as a defense mechanism. Seriously, what would you do if you didn't have Cena in your life?

 

[BaconBits]

But people like you don't hate Cena. You're infatuated with him. You act like a bitter nerd who likes the "popular" girl at the school, but knows he has no shot, so you tear her down as a defense mechanism. Seriously, what would you do if you didn't have Cena in your life?

My guess? He'd bitch about whatever else Wreddit tells him to hate. It's probably be something relating to Dolph Ziggler's booking. He's a God to those losers.

 

[Rayne]

Seriously, those of you who Network, check this out.

http://network.wwe.com/video/v380114783

It's from The WWE List, which is like a BuzzFeed style listicle video of WWE shit. This one is Biggest Underdogs, and while there's a lot of warm feelies inside the half-hour video, the pertinent part is right in the first five minutes. A WWE produced video details how people want to root for the person who isn't supposed to get pushed to that level, and how they resent the people that are always on top. They reference the put-upon nature of professional wrestling fans, and state that they're natural fans of the underdog.

This is the reason people were treated to Daniel Bryan getting wtfowned during NXT Season One, why there were months of him being shitbagged on by Michael Cole, why he was repeatedly called a "B+ player"; to get fans rooting for the underdog. They did it so well they totally fucked up their Batista return, because people demanded the underdog had to win.

The WWE is fine with acting as a "source of approval" that their fans rebel against. They've been doing it ever since Vince McMahon put on his baggy sweatpants for the first time. They draw out the big moments- not every couple of months like the impatient little twunts around here expect, but for years at a time. And the fans cream their jeans when it happens.

For me, the first time I saw them do this (and being an impatient little twunt that I was at the time) was with Shawn Michaels back in the mid-90's. They drew it out for about a year and a half, with him being the 'cool heel' and losing to Diesel, then having to wait another full year to finally win it in That Ironman Match You All Should Remember.

Mankind, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Shawn Michaels, the WWE has used this formula over and over and over and over again, and in each era there was the Popular Face alongside of them. They're doing it with Seth Rollins right now, and building Roman Reigns into the John Cena role, and it's working elegantly.

 

[Blade]

Seth Rollins is the current WWEWHC. He got that title by cashing in mid-match during Reigns vs. Lesnar at Wrestlemania 31. He pinned Reigns, not Lesnar, in a move clearly designed to protect both those guys as much as possible. One thing was very clear, though: Brock Lesnar never lost the title, it was stolen from him.

Yep. Because Seth Rollins is a heel. That's how heels use their MitB briefcase. It's also occasionally how faces win it when WWE want to see a heel get their comeuppance after cheating to retain their title.

Let's see if there's a point to this first section.

Lesnar originally won the title off John Cena in a squash match at Summerslam 2014, and then retained in a couple of somewhat competitive rematches at NoC 2014 and the Royal Rumble, where a injured rib did not stop him from destroying and pinning Seth Rollins. We all know the story.

Yes. Lesnar destroyed Cena because that's how Lesnar was being built. And Rollins put up a pretty good fight for a heel at the Royal Rumble.

Still looking for a point.

Lesnar, who was entitled to a rematch with Rollins, had to wait until Battleground to get it. And of course, he dominated the match because he's been an absolute monster since Mania 30 and nobody can put a dent in him, except a select few. One of those select few is the Undertaker, who interfered and cost Lesnar the match. Taker went on to get a dirty win over Lesnar.

He sure did!

Meanwhile, Cena and Rollins exchanged wins over the US title. Cena beat Rollins a number of times, all clean (or almost all, I can't remember). And Rollins beat Cena once for the US title via the dreaded Jon Stewart run-in (I believe Sammartino lost the title the exact same way).

Yeah, WWE doesn't book cowardly heels very well. Not sure what that has to do with Cena.

So what we have here is this: Lesnar is god. Taker and Cena cannot beat Lesnar cleanly, but can be competitive with him. Reigns can as well, providing Lesnar runs into a pole.

Gets pushed into a pole, actually.

Rollins can't touch him and all of those guys have or probably can beat Rollins one-on-one. But Rollins is the WWEWHC.

Rollins had a few minutes where he stunned Lesnar. Even Heyman was looking worried for a little while. Apart from the blood, he did pretty much the same amount of damage as Reigns did at Wrestlemania, and more damage that Cena did at Summerslam.

Expanding on that, guys like Neville, who have competitive matches with Stardust, have had Rollins beat.

Whole lotta complaining about Rollins' booking. No linking this to a valid reason to hate Cena. I'm losing patience.

And all of this, all of these moments of weaknesses or outright clean losses for the WWEWHC make one thing perfectly clear to fans: The WWEWHC is not better than John Cena. He's not better than Brock Lesnar. He's not better than the Undertaker. He's good, but those guys are great.

Yep, Rollins has been booked as a weak champion. Again, nothing to do with Cena.

And for a chickenshit champion, that's fine. But when you factor in other things, like CM Punk's big 'ol title reign that was a complete afterthought to Cena's "worst year ever" when he won MITB, the Royal Rumble, and beat Brock Lesnar, or the fact that John Cena has only suffered ten clean losses in the past ten years (Source) it's hard to make the argument that anyone who is not John Cena, Brock Lesnar, or the Undertaker is championship material.

Because CM Punk was never really the big a draw. He had a few good months where his merch did well, and that's about it. Did nothing to help ratings, and apart from Hell in a Cell in 2012, did nothing to help Pay Per View buys. And it's not like he didn't get the chance, either. He got a shit ton of TV time in 2011 and 2012. But he got really boring, really fast. And that's coming from me, a big CM Punk fan.

But, again, Punk's booking and ability, or lack therof, is not John Cena's fault in the slightest.

Because there's an unseen title around the waists of these guys. A title that says "Yeah, I'm not the champion. But I'm better than the champion and I can beat him anytime I want."

Yep, just like there's been for decades. From Hogan to Austin to Rock to Triple H to Lesnar to Cena, there's always been someone who was above the title. But that's not a bad thing. It makes them seem like even more of a draw to have that mythical aura.

And to fans, these titles are all too apparent.

Clever them!

And it hurts the product, in the end.

No, it's WWE's terrible booking that's hurting the booking, not the drawing ability of guys who are above the title.

It hurts the roster to have one or two guys at the top who are untouchable and everyone else so far below them.

But how? There's always been guys like that. Literally for decades.

Because everyone knows that Rusev isn't beating Cena.

Yeah, just like everyone knew that Punk isn't beating Cena, or Edge isn't beating Cena, or the Shield isn't beating Cena's team, or Sheamus isn't beating Cena, or Daniel Bryan isn't beating Cena, or like Owens isn't beating Cena. Like those guys, right?

But, again, Cena doesn't make the booking decisions.

Everyone knows that Big Show isn't beating Lesnar.

True dat. But hey, it never hurts Lesnar to F5 a giant for a quick pop to keep him warm till the Undertaker rematch, right? But are you saying you want Big Show to win? That he's being held down and deserves a chance? I'm not sure what point you're trying make here.

And even when that does happen, even when a Kevin Owens beats John Cena clean...Cena turns around and beats him twice and makes him tap. And what is Owens doing right now? He's feuding with Ryback, another guy who once lost a feud with Cena.

Yeah, Owens is being trusted to try and help elevate the Intercontinental Title, something that was originally planned for Daniel Bryan. Poor Kev.

It's... Almost as if he's not ready to be elevated from the main card. Weird, huh?

And the trend continues. Because everyone knows that Roman Reigns is not going to lose.

What the fuck are you talking about? Reigns loses all the time. He's been squashed multiple times by the Wyatt family now that Strowman is around. Reigns has also lost at Wrestlemania. Because everyone knew that Reigns was going to win that night, remember? I believe he's list to Big Show once or twice. Aren't you in favour of Big Show winning?

And before that, he was injured for ages. So he wasn't doing much winning then. Except winning the battle against hernias!

So there is no real suspense to any part of the show involving one of these guys. It's only when they have a match with each other that anybody really gets that "big match" feeling where outcomes aren't obvious.

Except, when Cena loses, you lot are one of the first people to mark the everloving fuck out and talk about what a great moment it is. If you thought there was always a chance of Cena losing, it wouldn't be as big a deal, and you wouldn't furiously finger yourself over something like Owens winning clean.

But again, Cena still has no choice in that matter. So you still have no reason to hate Cena.

Taker vs. Lesnar? That's a Summerslam main event. Lesnar vs. Reigns? That's a Wrestlemania main event. Lesnar vs. Rollins? That's a Battleground main event. You see the difference? And how did that Battleground main event end? With a real contender to Lesnar, the Undertaker, interfering and Rollins vanishing into thin air, like his existence was something not to even be concerned about.

Wait... So you're saying that the bigger, proven draws are trusted with headlining the biggest shows! Get the fuck outta here!

But again, it's not Cena's decision.

And of course, there is no solution to this issue at this point.

You Cena haters are such a dramatic bunch.

You can't devalue Lesnar or Taker or even Cena. You can't have guys start racking up wins on these guys because fans are accustomed to them being at a certain level.

Yeah. I know when you were watching Owens beat Cena, you were complaining about how it's super unrealistic that Cena would lose to a nobody, instead of furiously fingering yourself.

Every time Cena loses, his merch sales dip.

Ah, making a statement of fact without the proof to back it up. The hallmark of every great argument.

So WWE has him get his win back in convincing fashion. Brock Lesnar won't lose cleanly to anyone but the top guy to be (Roman Reigns). Undertaker is on the edge of retirement, and gave Lesnar mega-credibility after WWE's abysmal booking of Lesnar upon his return on 2012. So as it stands now, all these guys live in the stratosphere above the rest of the roster. And then WWE stands around wondering where all the stars are and why the ratings are sinking.

Undertaker exists to put over Lesnar. Lesnar exists to put over (probably) Reigns. Cena exists to be put over. The midcard has zero credibility, and the feuds they have with each other will elevate nobody, because none of them have any kind of status to the fans. I'm supposed to be impressed that you beat Ryback and Durph Zurgle? Those guys couldn't even get one hit in on Brock Lesnar.

And that's why nobody's watching.

TL;DR: There is a belt around John Cena's waist that says "You can't see me" and it is the most prestigious title in the WWE.

Okay, I'm done replying because none of these things are reasons for you to hate Cena. Reasons for you to hate Vince? Sure. Reasons for you to hate the booking team and writers? Sure.

But John Cena isn't making any of the decisions that you disagree with. So essentially, you're hating somebody for something they can't control. Wait... Isn't that... Basically the definition of prejudice.

Holy shit, you guys! It can't possibly be that Cena haters are prejudiced twatbags who just complain and whine regardless of what Cena does because their baes aren't getting pushed?

Also, lol at trying to ignore the fact that Reigns is a new star that isn't Cena, Lesnar or Taker. Because it doesn't count as a new star being created if it's not a star that the IWC approves of as they rage behind their computer screen, getting Doritos dust everywhere.

You are guys are pathetic. If I cared enough, I'd feel sorry for you.

 

[BringThePain834]

In Memory of Crocker

God only knows when - 2015

 

[Crocker]

I don't got time anymore to argue with ignorant Cena apologists.. my patience is slowly dwindling for people here. Keep thinking what you want Blade

 

[Crocker]

Anyways Blade I made a linked your post on Reddit and one of the comments said, "This gave me cancer"

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Says he doesn't have time for this.

Continues to post about it anyways.



Plz...Tim...Rule...

 

[Con T.]

Would you like to see the post from the OP of the original thread?

...

Hi, I wrote the original "Unseen Title" post. Just want to repeat here what I said elsewhere

My post was not about why John Cena is poopy or anything like that. Quite the contrary, John Cena absolutely deserves his spot because he is the best wrestler in the world. However, WWE should have more upward mobility for their roster. One full-time star simply isn't enough to cause people to tune in every Monday night.

It's not at all about hating Cena, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't crosspost it further with alternative titles.

Thank you.

Which, wasn't the point of Blade's post that none of how Rollins' is booked has to do with Cena?

 

[Crocker]

"THE CONDESCENSION! Why do people feel the need to talk like this? Even if you disagree with someone and have a point (I don't think this guy does but regardless) do you have to word it in a way that makes you sound like a smug asshole."

""But people like you don't hate Cena. You're infatuated with him. You act like a bitter nerd who likes the "popular" girl at the school, but knows he has no shot, so you tear her down as a defense mechanism. Seriously, what would you do if you didn't have Cena in your life? "
What fucking trash."

 

[Con T.]

Dude, at this point, you're really going against the wishes of the OP.

Like, please, read what the guy wrote.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

It's pretty goddamn ironic that Crocker shows a link that's suppose to prove his point, but reading the comments on it the majority think exactly as we do.

The people that agree with him are probably his own alts, too. And if not, I bet my life that they don't know he makes more alts here than he even can count.

 

[Blade]

Anyways Blade I made a linked your post on Reddit

OH NOES! DE PEPLE ON REDIT DON' LYK ME!

and one of the comments said, "This gave me cancer"

One can only hope.

Would you like to see the post from the OP of the original thread?

Spoiler

Hi, I wrote the original "Unseen Title" post. Just want to repeat here what I said elsewhere

My post was not about why John Cena is poopy or anything like that. Quite the contrary, John Cena absolutely deserves his spot because he is the best wrestler in the world. However, WWE should have more upward mobility for their roster. One full-time star simply isn't enough to cause people to tune in every Monday night.

It's not at all about hating Cena, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't crosspost it
further with alternative titles.

Thank you.

Which, wasn't the point of Blade's post that none of how Rollins' is booked has to do with Cena?

Well wouldya look at that.

I have absolutely nothing against the OP, who is clearly an intelligent person. But it was also clear that Crocker took an argument that wasn't his to begin with, and that he didn't even understand, posted it as a different argument due to his misunderstanding, and is now getting called out.

With that said, I use a condescending tone when talking to Crocker because I know, as a fact, that I am better and smarter than him. Crocker's actions and misunderstanding of the OP's post prove this to be true.

Obviously, the OP didn't take offense to my post, assuming he saw it, because he's clearly more mature than Crocker, but I wasn't aiming my jabs at him. I was aiming them at Crocker, because that's what Crocker deserves for pulling shit like this. But I do apologise for the OP if he thought my comments were aimed at him.

Ya gonna post that on Reddit, Crocky?

 

[Slash-LN]

Typical media posting quotes without context. That's how they try to sway your opinion.

 

[BaconBits]

I like how you link to Wreddit and it's a different name than the last time you linked yourself to Wreddit.

How pathetic are you that you have to go to a different forum to bitch about this one, using a fucking sock puppet. Seriously dude, less internet. More real life.

 

[ABMorales787]

So basically, you hate John Cena because WWE has shitty writers.

We know.