All indies and ROH should merge already...

[The Dragon Saga]

People need to separate ROH from indy promotions these days.

You can bring a horse to water but if hes ******ed he'll probably just look at it with his jaw dropped and ask himself, "what the fuck is this?"

But RoH and other indy feds... there's a reason they are indies. If they ever tried to be bigger than what they currently are

On behalf of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Austin Aries, Colt Cabana, Antonio Cesaro and the many others who are actually entertaining and are straight off the indies I'd like to apologize for them not being to your standard. I'm certain your standard isn't very high, but I'd like to apologize anyway.

I'd also like to add that on behalf of ROH, sorry for not closing down in 2002 when they were "going out of business." And again in 2004... and 2007... and 2012... if you don't see the pattern here slap yourself. And for attracting so much attention that it went from a DVD product to a television and PPV product.

Enjoy watching Flo Rida perform at Mania next year.

 

[BaconBits]

On behalf of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Austin Aries, Colt Cabana, Antonio Cesaro and the many others who are actually entertaining and are straight off the indies I'd like to apologize for them not being to your standard. I'm certain your standard isn't very high, but I'd like to apologize anyway.

They "made" their names outside of RoH. Sorry. If the E or TNA had never called, nobody would give a flying fuck who they are, except for hardcore wrestling fans like you. Sorry. And hardcore wrestling fans can only take a wrestling promotion so far. See Paul Heyman's ECW for evidence.

I'd also like to add that on behalf of ROH, sorry for not closing down in 2002 when they were "going out of business." And again in 2004... and 2007... and 2012... if you don't see the pattern here slap yourself. And for attracting so much attention that it went from a DVD product to a television and PPV product.

ECW went from public access, to national TV to PPV. They failed in an epic manner, because, much like RoH and all other indy feds with any real talent, all the quality talent strives to be in the E or TNA, because, well, they want to earn real money and have real pull. Sorry.

Enjoy watching Flo Rida perform at Mania next year.

I'm sorry the truth makes your butthole hurt.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

They "made" their names outside of RoH. Sorry. If the E or TNA had never called, nobody would give a flying fuck who they are, except for hardcore wrestling fans like you. Sorry. And hardcore wrestling fans can only take a wrestling promotion so far. See Paul Heyman's ECW for evidence.

And without that place to make their names and get noticed they wouldn't be in WWE or TNA or anywhere, you idiot. ROH and the indies are the avenue for them to make "real money" and get "pull."

And ECW didn't fail because it went as far as it could, it failed because Heyman had the business skills of a fruit fly. He didn't know how to balance the books, he went beyond his means, booked talents such as Bam Bam, Dusty Rhodes, Brian Pillman and others who cost too much money.

You are the perfect example of what is wrong with "wrestling" fans if you call yourself that. You are clueless to how the business works. If ROH or all the indies disappeared tomorrow, where would everyone go? Where would they find the next CM Punk or the next Steve Austin or the next Chris Jericho who worked to get where they got?

Nowhere. There'd be nowhere to find the talent, because without the foundation, the building falls apart.

Gonna give you some schooling - the most important aspect of wrestling, isn't WWE or TNA. It's below it. Because when the John Cena's, Undertaker's and Kurt Angle's disappear they need more people to come through. And this is something Triple H, the guy who works at the top understands as said at the Performance Center opening, and if he understands it and is on the inside and you don't, then sue whoever educated you because they did a bad job.

 

[BaconBits]

A long ass rant that completely missed the point I was making

I never said that indies weren't necessary. They absolutely are. They are the place where even the best talent hones their skills. I even get down with indy wrestling sometimes, just for a change of pace.

I only said that indy feds cater to a very specific audience, and that audience is the types that populate wrasslin' forums. And that audience is rather small, certainly not big enough to sustain a indy style fed trying to turn itself itself into a mainstream style fed. If RoH and a bunch of other indy-style feds tried to merge and take it mainstream, they'd fail because the style they use doesn't appeal to mainstream tastes.

And you're wrong about ECW. Yes, Paul Heyman is a horrible businessman, but if his product had appealed to more than 1500 people in Philly and 50k people in other places, he would have made enough money that his lack of business sense wouldn't have been such an issue.

 

[Coco]

First post in nearly 3 years. Her last post?



Incredible foresight.

Seven minutes into his first NXT appearance:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=2111547&postcount=120

Also, this:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=2111776&postcount=227

#DownSinceDayOne

[/Rattlesnake]

Though to be fair, there was an uncomfortable amount of praise for Alex Riley in that thread. So maybe we shouldn't take that thread too seriously.

Where is Rattlesnake anyway? I'm dying for some new rectal sanitation advice.

 

[Miko]

And without that place to make their names and get noticed they wouldn't be in WWE or TNA or anywhere, you idiot. ROH and the indies are the avenue for them to make "real money" and get "pull."

And ECW didn't fail because it went as far as it could, it failed because Heyman had the business skills of a fruit fly. He didn't know how to balance the books, he went beyond his means, booked talents such as Bam Bam, Dusty Rhodes, Brian Pillman and others who cost too much money.

You are the perfect example of what is wrong with "wrestling" fans if you call yourself that. You are clueless to how the business works. If ROH or all the indies disappeared tomorrow, where would everyone go? Where would they find the next CM Punk or the next Steve Austin or the next Chris Jericho who worked to get where they got?

Nowhere. There'd be nowhere to find the talent, because without the foundation, the building falls apart.

Gonna give you some schooling - the most important aspect of wrestling, isn't WWE or TNA. It's below it. Because when the John Cena's, Undertaker's and Kurt Angle's disappear they need more people to come through. And this is something Triple H, the guy who works at the top understands as said at the Performance Center opening, and if he understands it and is on the inside and you don't, then sue whoever educated you because they did a bad job.

Is it just me, or are you spoiling for a fight and reading into things that were never said? He never said indies weren't important and could all close, he said most would never get any BIGGER because of a lack of mainstream appeal and the costs of attempting to do so would bankrupt them. Sheesh!

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Is it just me, or are you spoiling for a fight and reading into things that were never said? He never said indies weren't important and could all close, he said most would never get any BIGGER because of a lack of mainstream appeal and the costs of attempting to do so would bankrupt them. Sheesh!

Saga as an history of being all worked up when independent wrestling or indy wrestlers are on the line. So no big deal, that's who he is and respect him for that. He loves his wrestling no doubt.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I only said that indy feds cater to a very specific audience, and that audience is the types that populate wrasslin' forums.

I disagree. When ROH went to HD Net it began gaining more and more casual viewers. Don't believe me? Look at their Facebook page where nothing but casuals post. The audience may not be as big but an audience does not make a standard of a product, an audience does not make performers. You could have gold but if not enough people can reach it not enough will get a bit. There are guys in Japan right now doing a whole hell of a lot more than a ton of guys in WWE and TNA, solely because the users of this forum do not know who they are doesn't make them any less good.

And you're wrong about ECW. Yes, Paul Heyman is a horrible businessman, but if his product had appealed to more than 1500 people in Philly and 50k people in other places, he would have made enough money that his lack of business sense wouldn't have been such an issue.

No, I'm right. ECW on TNN's average rating was 1.1. What people seem to miss is the fact they were used as an experiment to see would wrestling fly on the network, when they saw it did they began negotiating with WWE. And ECW got those ratings without ANY advertisement. There wasn't even an advertisement for the debut episode outside of what ECW did on their nationally syndicated Hardcore TV show.

ECW was a tape trading company. People wanted to know about it they found the tapes, same way if someone wanted to see guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe, Aries, Rave, Strong, McGuinness work excellent matches in ROH years ago they bought the DVD's. One company tried to be bigger than it is and died, the other continues expanding, constantly. At its own pace.

Saga as an history of being all worked up when independent wrestling or indy wrestlers are on the line. So no big deal, that's who he is and respect him for that. He loves his wrestling no doubt.

I like intelligence, I frown upon stupidity. Of any forum I post or have ever posted on the most ignorant towards indy wrestling is this one. And despite guys like Bryan and Punk rising to the top certain users on here will still throw around moronic stereotypes that weren't true in 2002 and remain to be non-existent in 2013. Cause you know, Bryan is an uncharismatic, vanilla midget who'll never achieve anything because he can't tell a story and will certainly never main event a main WWE PPV with John Cena for the WWE Championship.

Oh, wait.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

I like intelligence, I frown upon stupidity. Of any forum I post or have ever posted on the most ignorant towards indy wrestling is this one. And despite guys like Bryan and Punk rising to the top certain users on here will still throw around moronic stereotypes that weren't true in 2002 and remain to be non-existent in 2013. Cause you know, Bryan is an uncharismatic, vanilla midget who'll never achieve anything because he can't tell a story and will certainly never main event a main WWE PPV with John Cena for the WWE Championship.

Oh, wait.

You are knocking on the wrong door dude, I agree 100% with you on that. It was very difficult to predict in 2002 what would happen in 2013, but those guys proved the world that indy wrestling is important, specially to become the professionals that they are now. Also, the beauty in it, is that "Dragon" aka Bryan Danielson doesn't exist anymore and nobody would ever thought he would become that sensation he is right now. In ROH he showed people what he could do in the ring, and even though some WWE or, Mainstream wrestling fans don't care for, I think that a portion will always care. In the WWE he evolved, he's no longer the fantastic wrestler, he's an entertaining character that can wrestle and that is what EVERYBODY should look for.

The only problem I have with people that love indy wrestling is their stupidity or arrogance when it comes to indy talent that goes into the WWE main roster. An example is the fact that most people really think CM Punk is the best in the world and that turns him into an overrated piece of crap. I also hate when somehow, somewhere people like to say that "generic indy wrestling" is the most underrated guy and the sole reason for that is because he was an indy star and the people defending it a indy mark.

 

[King Patrick Star]

Ring Of Honor merging with every Independent promotion would essentially be the re-rebirth…again…of the National Wrestling Alliance. I think it could work. ROH could be the main NWA affiliate and then when ROH gets a TV deal, they can drop NWA and pick up names like Hogan, Flair, and by the time this idea actually happens, Cena.

I think I’m just going to watch Raw, Smackdown, and Impact, and MAYBE Main Event, and if I still feel the need to watch more Professional Sports Wrestling Entertainment, which I won’t, I’ll check out Total Divas.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Ring Of Honor merging with every Independent promotion would essentially be the re-rebirth…again…of the National Wrestling Alliance. I think it could work. ROH could be the main NWA affiliate and then when ROH gets a TV deal, they can drop NWA and pick up names like Hogan, Flair, and by the time this idea actually happens, Cena.

I think I’m just going to watch Raw, Smackdown, and Impact, and MAYBE Main Event, and if I still feel the need to watch more Professional Sports Wrestling Entertainment, which I won’t, I’ll check out Total Divas.

ROH already has a TV deal, dumbass

 

[Miko]

ROH already has a TV deal, dumbass

Whoa, whats with all the hostility in here?

 

[BaconBits]

I disagree. When ROH went to HD Net it began gaining more and more casual viewers. Don't believe me? Look at their Facebook page where nothing but casuals post. The audience may not be as big but an audience does not make a standard of a product, an audience does not make performers. You could have gold but if not enough people can reach it not enough will get a bit. There are guys in Japan right now doing a whole hell of a lot more than a ton of guys in WWE and TNA, solely because the users of this forum do not know who they are doesn't make them any less good.



No, I'm right. ECW on TNN's average rating was 1.1. What people seem to miss is the fact they were used as an experiment to see would wrestling fly on the network, when they saw it did they began negotiating with WWE. And ECW got those ratings without ANY advertisement. There wasn't even an advertisement for the debut episode outside of what ECW did on their nationally syndicated Hardcore TV show.

ECW was a tape trading company. People wanted to know about it they found the tapes, same way if someone wanted to see guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe, Aries, Rave, Strong, McGuinness work excellent matches in ROH years ago they bought the DVD's. One company tried to be bigger than it is and died, the other continues expanding, constantly. At its own pace.



I like intelligence, I frown upon stupidity. Of any forum I post or have ever posted on the most ignorant towards indy wrestling is this one. And despite guys like Bryan and Punk rising to the top certain users on here will still throw around moronic stereotypes that weren't true in 2002 and remain to be non-existent in 2013. Cause you know, Bryan is an uncharismatic, vanilla midget who'll never achieve anything because he can't tell a story and will certainly never main event a main WWE PPV with John Cena for the WWE Championship.

Oh, wait.

LOL. You cited HDNet as a reason RoH is succesful...

Take your hipster wrestling fan bullshit somewhere else. And maybe there you can actually stay on topic.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

LOL. You cited HDNet as a reason RoH is succesful...

Take your hipster wrestling fan bullshit somewhere else. And maybe there you can actually stay on topic.

This is the best post you've made all year, keep it up!

 

[BaconBits]

This is the best post you've made all year, keep it up!

I'm not the one making an ass of myself every time somebody mentions something even slightly detrimental about indy wrestling.

And when I made valid points, you countered with bullshit that had nothing to do with what I just said. You kept bringing up the quality of the product, which I never called into question. I only said it's not palatable to mainstream audiences, and you know what? It isn't. If it was, it would still be on HDNet.

 

[justinsayne]

ROH's show is being syndicated across the country, on channels most people actually have instead of on a channel most people either don't have or don't know exists. ROH's current tv situation in probably better than it was when they were stuck on HDnet.

 

[King Patrick Star]

ROH already has a TV deal, dumbass

I meant a real TV deal. USA, SyFy, Spike, even Ion. Any channel to get ROH in New Jersey.

 

[justinsayne]

I meant a real TV deal. USA, SyFy, Spike, even Ion.

As opposed to a fake TV deal?

 

[BaconBits]

ROH's show is being syndicated across the country, on channels most people actually have instead of on a channel most people either don't have or don't know exists. ROH's current tv situation in probably better than it was when they were stuck on HDnet.

I know their TV situation is better in terms of channels and available homes, but in many places they get horrible time slots like 3AM. That isn't doing them any favors at all.

It's an indy style fed that got ahead a little bit better than most do, but it's by no means ever going to reach mainstream status and if they did try to attain that, they'd fail.That's the main point I've been making the whole time, but this dude is thinking I think the product sucks. I don't. I've watched it a few times. It's decent wrestling. But I am a lifelong wrestling fan.

 

[King Patrick Star]

As opposed to a fake TV deal?

As opposed to a 20 State TV deal that only covers 40% of the United States.

 

[justinsayne]

As opposed to a 20 State TV deal that only covers 40% of the United States.

Yeah, & they've done what they can to make it up to the other 60% of the country my putting the show up online every week for free.

 

[King Patrick Star]

Touché!!

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I don't get ROH on my TV.

 

[klunderbunker]

I do. I don't watch it due to it being a horribly run TV show for its first few months that bored me to death.

 

[justinsayne]

The show would be much better if they ever decided to get rid of that indignant tool, Kevin Kelly, he's easily one of the worst commentators I have ever had to endure in all my time watching wrestling.

It would also probably be better if they didn't shelve weeks worth of shows then shove spoilers from all those shows all over their website & youtube, for example they gave us the finish & backstage reaction to reDRagon losing the titles before they ever aired the match, & with Steel Cage Warfare, they made us wait 5 weeks for the match, everyone knew the results of everything that happened in that match after a full month before it aired.

Since Cornette's dumbass is gone the quality of matches & storytelling are decent for a one hour show, but between Kevin Kelly, & their ******ed desire to shove spoilers in you face they still have a lot to do if they ever want to improve the weekly tv show.