Alex Shelley Reportedly Leaving TNA

[Uncle Sam]

WWE is like a teenager. I'm sure Vince *********es a lot and likes to stare at his friends' mothers' breasts, but that's not what I mean. WWE's fascinated with a concept one second, giving everything to make it succeed with unexpected enthusiasm - then it's bored of it a month later, putting it on the shelf and going out to ride bikes or skim stones or whatever it is teenagers do these days.

There's a lot of rumours shooting about regarding Shelley's future. I say "a lot" - it's one really; he's being brought in to help rebuild the cruiserweight division, and/or to be in a cruiserweight show. For starters, "rebuild" is a pretty redundant term, considering there wasn't that much there to start with. Secondly, while I think the idea is pretty novel and something I'd be interested in, I don't see it being much of a success, or WWE having much interest in it after a few weeks.

What I do have faith in is Alex Shelley. His stuff in Paparazzi Productions years ago was genuinely funny television, and I think he's more than proved himself in the ring, at least as one quarter of the Guns/Beer Money encounters. I've seen a few people say that Aries has much more potential - IDR and shattered dreams I think - but I don't think they're that disparate, nor do I think that Shelley is less valuable an addition to a roster just because he's not as good as Austin Aries.

Say what you will about Shelley's run in TNA - I was irked that they didn't hand the keys of the tag division over to The Guns much sooner - but he experienced considerable success. Meanwhile, Daniel Bryan's success in WWE has made me think anyone - with talent - can experience success there. So just wait until Alex Shelley has got to the heady heights of WWE's midcard while the general manager's in the main event. You'll be eating your words. Yes, you'll all feel very silly then.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

Alex was in a tournament on Xplosion to win a title shot (Magnus won it and the title shot has never been cashed in to my knowledge and probably never will) - hjad Shelley won the tournament he could have cashed it in and wrestled Kurt Angle for the TNA title at Destination X, that would have been a match worth watching.

I do remember that Xplosion tournament. If I remember rightly Magnus said on the Spin Cycle he used it with Joe to go for the tag titles, I think it was for one of the matches against Morgan and Crimson when they had the belts.

While that idea of Shelley facing Angle would be nice, it couldn't have happened because Xplosion doesn't air in the US and for Shelley to get a world title shot by winning a tourney most people don't know existed on a show they can't watch, they would be pretty peeved at that.

 

[Iversen]

Haven't read all the way through so apologies if this has been said but I think TNA is starting to have a problem with things like this. A few years back guys from the indies knew if they went to TNA they were likely to get a chance. Joe, Styles, Sabin, Shelly and so on. WWE wasn't an option because they wouldn't get a chance.

Recently though this has started to change. Punk and Bryan are the obvious ones but on top of that you've got KOW, Ambrose/Moxley, Rollins/Black and so on all coming in and all seemingly getting a chance in the WWE to actually show their stuff and make a name for themselves. It's not the graveyard of indie wrestlers it used to be. This means that to the likes of Shelley, Sabin god even Styles and Joe no longer see the WWE as such a distant reality and they might begin to think that it would be better for them to make the jump.

While I'm not saying that TNA are going to stop signing indie wrestlers as they obviously still do. The likes of Zema Ion and so on are still happy to come there but unlike before they don't seem to have their pick of the talent. They need to do something to make these guys want to come to them rather than hold out for WWE and quite frankly the only way they can do that is to start to push these guys on a regular basis. There has been signs of that recently with Storm and Roode but on the other hand the likes of Sabin, Shelley, Styles and co are basically in mid card purgatory at the moment. Hopefully they can turn it round because finding those great indie talents is what made the company and if they start to lose them the fans are going to be subjected to hour after hour of Hogan, Flair and friends which it seems most people don't care about any more.

 

[Rayne]

It surprises me how people don't understand this. It is a good thing yet too many spend so much time talking about how the mid card isn't the focus of the product anymore like this is a bad thing.

Show me the money. The top tier guys aren't drawing any better than the mid-card folks were, and they're getting paid more to draw that same number. How is it a good thing? It's been two and a half years since the switch to a main event driven format, where has the payoff been?

That all notwithstanding, it still doesn't change the fact that Alex Shelley is (was) a mid-carder in a company that has gone from a broad mid-card focus to a narrow main event focus.

I don't agree with this. If you are under 225, and unestablished, TNA is still definitely your best bet. WWE didn't even want Aries and it seems like much of DBD's success is in spite of the company, not because of it. How did things work out for Morrison? It is disingenuous to say if we ignore the main purpose of the X-division over the past few months then it isn't any good. When is the last time someone built up a smaller guy to the extent Aries has been?

Yeah, Austin Aries is great. No one gives a shit about Zema Ion; his role seems to be to make Austin Aries look as good as possible while remaining as invisible as he can. How are the rest of the cruiserweights in TNA/IW doing, now that the focus is unquestionably off the mid-card?

How did things work out for Morrison? He was a multiple time tag team champion, main evented a Royal Rumble, and people repeatedly bring up how his name recognition could help TNA/IW. I think he did alright for himself.

When was the last time someone build up a smaller guy to the extent Aries has been? Well, you mention Daniel Bryan, so you already know, but CM Punk isn't that big of a guy either. They happen to be main eventing these days.

If you're a cruiserweight in TNA/IW, you don't have a role these days. A cruiserweight in the WWE may have a television program of their own shortly. How are things better off in TNA/IW, unless your stage name ends in Aries?

 

[This is the return of WTM]

The one saving grace here is that with Shelley gone, Sabin can return to spark the X Division.

This is the one thing I hope and pray happens going into Open Fight Night, because after Aries match with Bully Ray at Sacrifice. Aries needs to move out into the regular midcard and either member of the guns were the only people I could see it winning it off him.

Come on Dave, make it work!

As far as Shelley leaving, I don't wanna sound like a pessimist but I feel that the E are going to misuse him so badly if he goes.

 

[JAK]

I do remember that Xplosion tournament. If I remember rightly Magnus said on the Spin Cycle he used it with Joe to go for the tag titles, I think it was for one of the matches against Morgan and Crimson when they had the belts.

While that idea of Shelley facing Angle would be nice, it couldn't have happened because Xplosion doesn't air in the US and for Shelley to get a world title shot by winning a tourney most people don't know existed on a show they can't watch, they would be pretty peeved at that.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I watch Xplosion for the wrestling matches and generally fast forwad through the Spin Cycle and other assorted bumph. I wasn't aware that the USA had no access whatsoever to Xplosion which makes me realise that anything that happens on the programme is pretty pointless.

Apologies for taking the thread slightly off topic. back to mourning the departure of Alex Shelley from TNA and the death of the MCMG.

 

[shattered dreams]

Show me the money. The top tier guys aren't drawing any better than the mid-card folks were, and they're getting paid more to draw that same number. How is it a good thing? It's been two and a half years since the switch to a main event driven format, where has the payoff been?

Why are you ignoring what the main eventers were getting paid when the area of interest was the midcard? Why should a company expect to grow in the mainstream with a focus not on the main event? Why do you think the rating would have stayed constant without any changes? Do you really expect me to believe Jeff Hardy isn't significantly outdrawing what Alex Shelley used to? Am I supposed to believe that Roode and Storm are making more than Nash and Booker T were?

Yeah, Austin Aries is great. No one gives a shit about Zema Ion; his role seems to be to make Austin Aries look as good as possible while remaining as invisible as he can. How are the rest of the cruiserweights in TNA/IW doing, now that the focus is unquestionably off the mid-card?

If at some point I am supposed to believe Zema Ion would be doing better in WWE then that is funny. Zema would not be getting national exposure in WWE right now. How are the people in the X-division doing? Pretty normal for the lower card in a mainstream company. How is the cruiserweight style doing in TNA? Just fine.

How did things work out for Morrison? He was a multiple time tag team champion, main evented a Royal Rumble, and people repeatedly bring up how his name recognition could help TNA/IW. I think he did alright for himself.

He did alright for himself but did he ever reach his supposed potential in WWE? No. Also, when did he main event the Royal Rumble? Shelley was a tag team champion in TNA and people bring up his name as someone that could help WWE. Why does this mean TNA doesn't use these guys but WWE does?

When was the last time someone build up a smaller guy to the extent Aries has been? Well, you mention Daniel Bryan, so you already know, but CM Punk isn't that big of a guy either. They happen to be main eventing these days.

Did they build CM Punk as a face? Does Shelley have anywhere near comparable mic skills to Punk? Daniel Bryan wasn't really built much. He was pretty much just put in the spot and practically every major jump in popularity he received was in spite of how WWE was trying to use him. He is also a good technical wrestler unlike Shelley and had a much larger fanbase backing than Shelley does. CM Punk counts but it was pretty drawn out and he is billed 4 inches taller than Shelley. I wouldn't really characterize either of those guys as working an X-division style though.

If you're a cruiserweight in TNA/IW, you don't have a role these days.

Unless you are AJ Styles, Daniels, Kaz, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Samoa Joe etc. if style is what you are looking for. Everyone starts somewhere and the company that just took a cruiserweight and actually built him up to higher than that is TNA with Austin Aries.

A cruiserweight in the WWE may have a television program of their own shortly. How are things better off in TNA/IW, unless your stage name ends in Aries?

The rumor of a television program that we know nothing about on a network that may never even exist is some shaky ground to be standing on. Remember that WWEs third programs have actually been getting worse ratings than TNA over recent times. This show may never exist and could conceivable be internet only for some time. If you aren't Austin Aries, once he moves on you could be the next Austin Aries, that is how. Has that guy that was ROH champion like two years ago even made it out of FCW yet? TNA just put a guy from OVW on tv for a few weeks and seems to have given him a roster spot on a whim. There are still more opportunities for these guys trying to make a name in TNA. For more established guys it is debatable but both companies have done things with such guys. I just think TNA has shown more potential to actually build such guys.

 

[Rayne]

Why are you ignoring what the main eventers were getting paid when the area of interest was the midcard? Why should a company expect to grow in the mainstream with a focus not on the main event? Why do you think the rating would have stayed constant without any changes? Do you really expect me to believe Jeff Hardy isn't significantly outdrawing what Alex Shelley used to? Am I supposed to believe that Roode and Storm are making more than Nash and Booker T were?

You're operating under the false pretense that I view the TNA/IW of 3-4 years ago as some perfect sunflower where all the decisions were logical. What the main eventers were being paid back then is irrelevant, as I never made any claim that TNA/IW was spending their money wisely there, either.

You're also raising the issue of the TNA/IW's move to a main event centered program, which I never brought up as a positive or a negative. It's that "must defend TNA!!!" reflex of yours acting up again, because I never made a statement saying whether it was good or bad for the company; I made a statement saying that it hasn't paid off.

Yes, I expect you to believe that Jeff Hardy is drawing the same numbers as Alex Shelley was. This is 2012, not 2003. If you doubt me, we can go to the ratings thread that Slyfox keeps, and I can show you the numbers. People weren't showing up just for Alex Shelley; they were showing up for the X and Tag divisions. Turns out that mid-card oriented style was drawing just as much as Hardy v. Angle main events. (TNA/IW doesn't release PPV numbers because they suck. If they were selling product, like any company in the world, they'd be bragging about it. We have TV ratings, which are flat.)

If at some point I am supposed to believe Zema Ion would be doing better in WWE then that is funny. Zema would not be getting national exposure in WWE right now.

You're right. Zema Ion isn't a WWE caliber talent. He gets no one invested in him, and you will forget about him once he's off TV for a month straight. His "national exposure" amounts to him getting a couple hundred extra dollars when he's wrestling in high school gyms. I'm sure you don't like that comparison, but Robbie E. is wrestling in a hundred-seat venue in my area this weekend. Tickets are $10. I don't think he's going to get a big paycheck for that, and his star's a bit brighter than Zema Ion's, who's role is, again, the guy who lies underneath Austin Aries.

WWE crusierweights, on the other hand, don't take independent bookings, because they are far too busy making money to schedule independent dates. Tell me again how TNA/IW is such a sweet place to be a cruiserweight; Evan Bourne's star ain't so hot lately, but I haven't heard of him having to work indy bookings.

He did alright for himself but did he ever reach his supposed potential in WWE? No. Also, when did he main event the Royal Rumble?

Ugh. Are you seriously trying to imply that things didn't work out for John Morrison because he was never a multi-time world champion, and that he's a case of the WWE treating cruiserweights poorly? FUCK, man. I'll argue logic with you, but you're doing that reflexive response thing you do when you feel someone's threatening TNA/IW.

I was mistaken about him main eventing the Rumble- I was confusing a nearly hour-long stint he had in it with a world title match he had with Jeff Hardy on Smackdown. Doesn't change the argument any.

Shelley was a tag team champion in TNA and people bring up his name as someone that could help WWE. Why does this mean TNA doesn't use these guys but WWE does?

People say a lot of stupid shit on the internet. I don't defend everyone else's arguments, and have no idea why people keep coming to me with "but people on the internet say this, now defend it!"

Alex Shelley could do a lot better for himself in the WWE. TNA/IW isn't making people famous, unless you're watching TNA/IW. Last I checked, TNA/IW wasn't putting people in movies, boxing main events, MTV (ok, they did get people on "Family Feud"....), or anywhere else outside of the TNA/IW bubble. The ceiling in the WWE is just a little bit higher than the ceiling in TNA/IW.

Did they build CM Punk as a face? Does Shelley have anywhere near comparable mic skills to Punk? Daniel Bryan wasn't really built much. He was pretty much just put in the spot and practically every major jump in popularity he received was in spite of how WWE was trying to use him. He is also a good technical wrestler unlike Shelley and had a much larger fanbase backing than Shelley does. CM Punk counts but it was pretty drawn out and he is billed 4 inches taller than Shelley. I wouldn't really characterize either of those guys as working an X-division style though.

Yeah, I wouldn't characterize those guys as using an X-division style. Guess what? When you start main eventing, you change your style, as you are expected to work 20 minute matches more regularly, and cost the company much more money when you get hurt. You also tend to be older than the people who work the X-division style, have been wrestling for longer, and are thus slower and more prone to injury. Obvious statement is obvious.

Again; what does build have to do with anything? Are you trying to imply, again, that Daniel Bryan would be better off in TNA/IW because the WWE didn't embrace him as a golden boy? You can achieve more in the WWE than you can in TNA/IW. End of story, bottom line. If anything, Daniel Bryan is the proof that a cruiserweight can succeed in the WWE without a strong build from the company. Good news for Alex Shelley!

Unless you are AJ Styles, Daniels, Kaz, Jeff Hardy, RVD, Samoa Joe etc. if style is what you are looking for. Everyone starts somewhere and the company that just took a cruiserweight and actually built him up to higher than that is TNA with Austin Aries.

RVD and (laugh) Samoa Joe have never been considered "cruiserweights". Daniels and Kaz are nobodies that you are being told are somebodies; you will forget Kaz the moment he isn't on television. (Daniels at least has the Good Old Days to fall back on.) So, we're left with AJ Styles. I'll bet you real money he won't be in TNA/IW at the end of next year, because TNA/IW isn't doing anything with him now, and they have no intentions of doing anything with him besides using him to occupy space on the upper mid-card.

The rumor of a television program that we know nothing about on a network that may never even exist is some shaky ground to be standing on.

"It can't happen! It won't happen! I refuse to believe it! Lalalalala..."

I see you are unfamiliar with what a "soft sell" is, and thus I shall move on.

Remember that WWEs third programs have actually been getting worse ratings than TNA over recent times. This show may never exist and could conceivable be internet only for some time.

Fortunately, it's TNA/IW that pays by appearance. WWE stars are on salary with incentive bonuses, unless the have the leverage (a la Lesnar) to demand a contract with specific dates. I'll take money over being famous in Orlando.

If you aren't Austin Aries, once he moves on you could be the next Austin Aries, that is how.

Right. Who was the big X-division star right before Austin Aries again? You have the whole process backwards; the X-Division doesn't make the star. Austin Aries made himself with the talent he has. After he "moves on", the X-Division will resume being unimportant, because it will lack a charismatic performer to lead it.

Has that guy that was ROH champion like two years ago even made it out of FCW yet? TNA just put a guy from OVW on tv for a few weeks and seems to have given him a roster spot on a whim.

Yeah. Illustrate the difference between the two companies a little bit more, please. ROH champions need development before they're ready to work a WWE style; you can walk into TNA/IW and get a roster spot.

Braden Walker was a member of one of the biggest tag teams in TNA history. You might be asking, "who's Braden Walker?" Exactly. Just because you can be a star in the minor leagues doesn't mean that you deserve a spot in the big leagues.

There are still more opportunities for these guys trying to make a name in TNA. For more established guys it is debatable but both companies have done things with such guys. I just think TNA has shown more potential to actually build such guys.

TNA/IW is giving their mid-carders LOTS of opportunity. Robbie E. is getting the opportunity to wrestle in 100-seat theater houses. Jesse Neal had the opportunity to sign up for food stamps. I'm not aware that WWE performers get those opportunities. They have the opportunity of depositing a weekly check during their employment, rather than the "we'll pay you when we need you" deal TNA/IW works out with many of their lower-card performers.

If you seriously think that there is more potential available to people in TNA/IW than there is in the WWE, I don't know what to tell you. The days of the glass ceiling in the WWE are gone right now, when you have cruiserweights like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk main eventing, and that seems to be what your argument hinges on; that Alex Shelley is better off in TNA/IW, because the WWE would automatically hold him back (read: fail to push him to the moon.) That simply hasn't been true for the last few years; people who have talent have been getting their due in the WWE lately.

 

[shattered dreams]

You're operating under the false pretense that I view the TNA/IW of 3-4 years ago as some perfect sunflower where all the decisions were logical. What the main eventers were being paid back then is irrelevant, as I never made any claim that TNA/IW was spending their money wisely there, either.

You didn't claim that but you did say they are paying more and getting the same. How can you say they are paying more without making such a comparisons?

You're also raising the issue of the TNA/IW's move to a main event centered program, which I never brought up as a positive or a negative. It's that "must defend TNA!!!" reflex of yours acting up again, because I never made a statement saying whether it was good or bad for the company; I made a statement saying that it hasn't paid off.

How is it a good thing?

Yes, I expect you to believe that Jeff Hardy is drawing the same numbers as Alex Shelley was. This is 2012, not 2003. If you doubt me, we can go to the ratings thread that Slyfox keeps, and I can show you the numbers. People weren't showing up just for Alex Shelley; they were showing up for the X and Tag divisions. Turns out that mid-card oriented style was drawing just as much as Hardy v. Angle main events. (TNA/IW doesn't release PPV numbers because they suck. If they were selling product, like any company in the world, they'd be bragging about it. We have TV ratings, which are flat.)

So why is John Cena a draw then? Hell, why is anyone a draw then? Ratings are on a decline in the wrestling industry. If that is the only thing you are considering, then everyone sucks and all companies should just field the cheapest roster imaginable. If you really don't think Hardy moves a significant amount more merch than Shelley, I don't know what to tell you.

You're right. Zema Ion isn't a WWE caliber talent. He gets no one invested in him, and you will forget about him once he's off TV for a month straight. His "national exposure" amounts to him getting a couple hundred extra dollars when he's wrestling in high school gyms. I'm sure you don't like that comparison, but Robbie E. is wrestling in a hundred-seat venue in my area this weekend. Tickets are $10. I don't think he's going to get a big paycheck for that, and his star's a bit brighter than Zema Ion's, who's role is, again, the guy who lies underneath Austin Aries.

So he makes more money when he does what he was doing before he joined TNA (which he is still allowd to do while with TNA) and still has the chance, no matter how remote it might be, to grow in the company. Sounds horrible.

WWE crusierweights, on the other hand, don't take independent bookings, because they are far too busy making money to schedule independent dates. Tell me again how TNA/IW is such a sweet place to be a cruiserweight; Evan Bourne's star ain't so hot lately, but I haven't heard of him having to work indy bookings.

Far too busy making money? You are hilarious if that was meant to be remotely serious. They aren't allowed to book independent stuff to begin with and they would barely have the time to anyway. If you think the cruiserweights in WWE (I'd be interested to know who they are btw since TNAs guys that have worked their way up the card don't count anymore) are getting rich you obviously forgot that all companies are pretty cheap with their lesser talents. Sure WWE does pay more but you also work more and they don't pay nobodies all that well.

Ugh. Are you seriously trying to imply that things didn't work out for John Morrison because he was never a multi-time world champion, and that he's a case of the WWE treating cruiserweights poorly? FUCK, man. I'll argue logic with you, but you're doing that reflexive response thing you do when you feel someone's threatening TNA/IW.

Actually that isn't the case. I am arguing that he wasn't treated much better than Shelley has been. Take that to mean what it will.

People say a lot of stupid shit on the internet. I don't defend everyone else's arguments, and have no idea why people keep coming to me with "but people on the internet say this, now defend it!"

Yeah, I find that annoying too.

He was a multiple time tag team champion, main evented a Royal Rumble, and people repeatedly bring up how his name recognition could help TNA/IW.

Alex Shelley could do a lot better for himself in the WWE. TNA/IW isn't making people famous, unless you're watching TNA/IW. Last I checked, TNA/IW wasn't putting people in movies, boxing main events, MTV (ok, they did get people on "Family Feud"....), or anywhere else outside of the TNA/IW bubble. The ceiling in the WWE is just a little bit higher than the ceiling in TNA/IW.

No doubt the ceiling, and potential for earnings, is higher. However, is Alex Shelley ever really going to be John Cena? Extremely unlikely. I don't think everybody necessarily automatically makes more by going to WWE. TNA pays up for their top guys if you work your way up. I really doubt Styles was offered more money to come to WWE than what TNA paid him on his last contract. Probably the same for Joe. I guarantee you those guys make more than a guy low on the card in WWE. I think the crux of our disagreement is what exactly constitutes a "cruiserweight guy." If you are CM Punk or DBD and they want you it is a good gig to take. If they didn't even want Aries, I just don't see how it is the place to be for all these guys. I especially don't see why Punk and Danielson count in WWE but we can't even include Aries in TNA because he made it above the lower card Seems like an exceedingly convenient measuring stick. Being in FCW and not being able to work the indies hardly sounds like an opportunity that has you rolling in the dough.

Yeah, I wouldn't characterize those guys as using an X-division style. Guess what? When you start main eventing, you change your style, as you are expected to work 20 minute matches more regularly, and cost the company much more money when you get hurt. You also tend to be older than the people who work the X-division style, have been wrestling for longer, and are thus slower and more prone to injury. Obvious statement is obvious.

What would someone like Shelley do in such a scenario? He doesn't have the mic skills of Punk or the technical ability of DBD. This could be an issue. You continually make the case that the existence of these two guys makes WWE awesome while the state of the TNA X-division is so bad. Newsflash: WWE doesn't even have a cruiserweight division right now. That should be relevant, just like the guys that have succeeded in TNA should be.DB

Again; what does build have to do with anything? Are you trying to imply, again, that Daniel Bryan would be better off in TNA/IW because the WWE didn't embrace him as a golden boy? You can achieve more in the WWE than you can in TNA/IW. End of story, bottom line. If anything, Daniel Bryan is the proof that a cruiserweight can succeed in the WWE without a strong build from the company. Good news for Alex Shelley!

My point on these guys has never been they shouldn't be in TNA. It has been that it doesn't seem nearly as promising as you try to make it out to be for talents that need to be built up or are heavily reliant on the high flying style.

RVD and (laugh) Samoa Joe have never been considered "cruiserweights". Daniels and Kaz are nobodies that you are being told are somebodies; you will forget Kaz the moment he isn't on television. (Daniels at least has the Good Old Days to fall back on.) So, we're left with AJ Styles. I'll bet you real money he won't be in TNA/IW at the end of next year, because TNA/IW isn't doing anything with him now, and they have no intentions of doing anything with him besides using him to occupy space on the upper mid-card.

I'd take that bet. Both RVD and Samoa Joe have clearly been associated with the X-division style. I notice you altogether skipped Jeff Hardy. I suppose he doesn't count either for whatever convenient reason. You think people in WWE won't forget Shelley once he is gone? You might think of Daniels as a nobody but that doesn't mean he isn't prominently feature on the show right now.

"It can't happen! It won't happen! I refuse to believe it! Lalalalala..."

I see you are unfamiliar with what a "soft sell" is, and thus I shall move on.

Yeah, because I denied it could happen

Fortunately, it's TNA/IW that pays by appearance. WWE stars are on salary with incentive bonuses, unless the have the leverage (a la Lesnar) to demand a contract with specific dates. I'll take money over being famous in Orlando.

Are you in some way trying to get me to believe that the guys on whatever NXT is now make more than everyone in TNA?

Right. Who was the big X-division star right before Austin Aries again? You have the whole process backwards; the X-Division doesn't make the star. Austin Aries made himself with the talent he has. After he "moves on", the X-Division will resume being unimportant, because it will lack a charismatic performer to lead it.

When was the last big star? Before the last big crusierweight star in WWE. Isn't that all that matters? This circular logic seems flawed anyway. You agree that a charismatic performer can grow in the X-division and have it lead to better things in TNA, yet you are saying such a performer should not go to TNA because the division isn't thriving. Makes little sense.

Yeah. Illustrate the difference between the two companies a little bit more, please. ROH champions need development before they're ready to work a WWE style; you can walk into TNA/IW and get a roster spot.

Braden Walker was a member of one of the biggest tag teams in TNA history. You might be asking, "who's Braden Walker?" Exactly. Just because you can be a star in the minor leagues doesn't mean that you deserve a spot in the big leagues.

According to you Braden Walker is too busy counting money to care Doesn't this simply prove that Shelley could flame out like Walker since you seem to think the hypotheticals of Bryan are so telling. I still don't buy languishing in FCW is a significant financial advantage of any real measure.

TNA/IW is giving their mid-carders LOTS of opportunity. Robbie E. is getting the opportunity to wrestle in 100-seat theater houses. Jesse Neal had the opportunity to sign up for food stamps. I'm not aware that WWE performers get those opportunities. They have the opportunity of depositing a weekly check during their employment, rather than the "we'll pay you when we need you" deal TNA/IW works out with many of their lower-card performers.

Robbie E. makes more money now than he used to. How is that not an opportunity? You think WWE is knocking on Jesse Neal's door trying to give him a salary? Amusing. Your analogies make no sense. You pick guys that WWE has no interest in and say they would be better off if WWE gave them a "ton" of money even though they aren't ready. True but completely irrelevant.

If you seriously think that there is more potential available to people in TNA/IW than there is in the WWE, I don't know what to tell you. The days of the glass ceiling in the WWE are gone right now, when you have cruiserweights like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk main eventing, and that seems to be what your argument hinges on; that Alex Shelley is better off in TNA/IW, because the WWE would automatically hold him back (read: fail to push him to the moon.) That simply hasn't been true for the last few years; people who have talent have been getting their due in the WWE lately.

I never said Shelley would be better off in TNA. This whole thing started from my comment about unestablished guys. I remain unconvinced that FCW, or even nothing since WWE has no interest in most of these guys, is a superior option TNA where you have a very real chance of easily ascending to the midcard if you are good enough. If you have talent a midcard guy in TNA can get paid at least as good as a nobody in WWE.

 

[GrandSword]

Don't hold your breath on that one IDR. Sabin's best friend just left the company, and chances are he feels exactly the same as Shelley does. He might not be as vocal about it, but he's got to be pissed. However, he's got something tying him to TNA at least in Velvet Sky but still.

Well if Vince can gets hands on Velvet Sky, and if he needs to sign the Guns to do it, then maybe that would be an easy decision. Sky although has bad tattoos = ratings, and if Vince can bring the Guns over, much like he did with the Dudley Boys (no real change to their gimmick fromm ECW) with Velvet as their valet, he could a big money spinner. The Guns blow the Usos, Primo/Epico and any other tag team WWE has, out of the water. They are very marketable.. But they would probably need to stop smoking weed.. which may be a problem for them...haha

 

[i'm a cm punk girl]

Pretty sure their talent did too.
yeah when did I say they werent talented.

Vs. Mexican America
Vs. Joe/Magnus
The Reality Show

That's not half a dozen.

How cute? Did you forget his feud with Aries in January and Febuary of 2012? Pretty sure you take those appearances plus the ones you mentioned and you get past the half dozen mark for the year 2012. I thought you take good notes when it comes to Alex Shelley in TNA.


They had one of those matches already and as you said, it was off.
One team they could face.
Angle and AJ aren't an official team.

And when the ring rust is gone, the rematch could be even better. If AJ and Angle feud with Kaz and Daniels for awhile then there is a chance they stick as a tag team for a bit which would give The Guns another opponent to face. (thats why I said "and even" because there is a chance that could happen)



He was captain of a Lethal Lockdown team, got to team with Jeff Hardy, face Kurt Angle, get a rub from Hulk Hogan, and was placed ahead of AJ Styles, Austin Aries, Mr. Anderson and Rob Van Dam at Lockdown. That's a main event push.

This is probably my favorite thing you wrote

So was Tomko how'd that work out for him

So just working with Jeff Hardy, it means garrett's getting a main event push. So Jeff Jarrett in 2011 was a TNA main eventer cause he worked with Jeff Hardy. Does that mean Mr. Anderson is now a TNA main eventer too cause he is working with Hardy?

Guess that means AJ Styles is back to being a TNA main eventer than, oh and I guess Daniels and Kaz have finally become TNA main eventers because they are working with Kurt these days. Joe just wrestled Kurt last week, is he a main eventer now too? Those guys went toe-to-toe with Angle while Garrett got his ass kicked for 95% of the match but lasted just long enough to survive the 5 minutes for "the win"

Hulk said the same thing about The Pope, Beer Money, AJ Styles and all the other young babyfaces TNA had when Hulk came onboard in 2010. You seem like the guy to claim that Hogan was full of shit when he said that awhile back but when he says it about Garrett it means "oh my god thats a main event puch in the making". Cant have it both ways

Oh and Drew "the chosen one" Mcintyre got the ultimate rub and he went Nowhere too.

Again see Tomko in 2008, Captained a Lethal Lockdown team of guys more talented than him and yet what do you know, HE NEVER GOT A MAIN EVENT PUSH AFTER THAT. Lethal Lockdown is a featured match but it doesnt necessarily mean a main event push.

So I guess alot of TNA wrestlers are getting a "main event push" based on this laughable logic



Total matches on TV/PPV this year:

Shelley: 6
Ion: 10, four of which were for the X-Division Title.

See, not only do I watch the shows, I take good notes.

Kinda sad if you really took notes, not something Id advertise.

What division? There are about three teams, most of which aren't any good. They've had two tag matches since they've been back. That's not being the focus. That's being another part of something that means nothing.

When its clear that they arent clicking yet due to ring rust, why would you have them on TV? They have been doing all the house shows since they returned and now Sabin is getting back in the swing of things and once that happens, theyd be the featured tag team for TNA. Shelley is jumping ship (if true) before this could happen

 

[Kitten Cutter]

Far too busy making money? You are hilarious if that was meant to be remotely serious. They aren't allowed to book independent stuff to begin with and they would barely have the time to anyway. If you think the cruiserweights in WWE (I'd be interested to know who they are btw since TNAs guys that have worked their way up the card don't count anymore) are getting rich you obviously forgot that all companies are pretty cheap with their lesser talents. Sure WWE does pay more but you also work more and they don't pay nobodies all that well.

See, while I don't have the WWE's accounting books, I'd say YES, the lesser talents of the WWE are probably making more than some of the mid-carders and below of TNA. Let's take some of the lesser guys like Yoshi Tatsu, JTG, Tyson Kidd, Michael McGillicutty, and Percy Watson. All of them would probably be TNA X-division guys, and while they spend most of their time on NXT, I'd bet anything they are getting paid more. And working more is the point of professional wrestling. If no one sees you, you're not gonna make it. Those five guys have more of a legitimate shot of main eventing in 3-4 years than Zema Ion, Jesse Sorenson, Robbie E, Chris Sabin and Kaz.

And yes, I DID say 3-4 years because Daniel Bryan two years ago was on NXT and is now main-eventing. If I were Alex Shelley I'd want even the slightest chance that could happen to me.

Actually that isn't the case. I am arguing that [John Morrison] wasn't treated much better than Shelley has been. Take that to mean what it will.

I never saw the main event appeal in Morrison. I liked him at times, he impressed me, but just another high-flying spot monkey in the end. I think he'd be great in TNA\IW, but I couldn't see him being any more different than Shelley.

No doubt the ceiling, and potential for earnings, is higher. However, is Alex Shelley ever really going to be John Cena? Extremely unlikely. I don't think everybody necessarily automatically makes more by going to WWE. TNA pays up for their top guys if you work your way up. I really doubt Styles was offered more money to come to WWE than what TNA paid him on his last contract. Probably the same for Joe. I guarantee you those guys make more than a guy low on the card in WWE. I think the crux of our disagreement is what exactly constitutes a "cruiserweight guy." If you are CM Punk or DBD and they want you it is a good gig to take. If they didn't even want Aries, I just don't see how it is the place to be for all these guys. I especially don't see why Punk and Danielson count in WWE but we can't even include Aries in TNA because he made it above the lower card Seems like an exceedingly convenient measuring stick. Being in FCW and not being able to work the indies hardly sounds like an opportunity that has you rolling in the dough.

We shouldn't compare Shelley to Cena because Vince will always love his hulking masses of roids. Do keep in mind though that it was the fans that brought Daniel Bryan back, and it was Daniel Bryan who had to fight a lot of obstacles on his way to the top. Remember that he barely had a gimmick before he won Money in the Bank.

The easy way to do the comparison is this: ANY superstar under 225 is a cruiserweight. Therefore, Punk and Danielson do count, along with Cody Rhodes, Santino Murella, Christian, and Kofi Kingston, all of whom have been or currently are a champion in the past 3 months. Meanwhile, TNA's champions are Robert Roode, Devon, Aries, Daniels and Kaz, and all of their challengers don't come close to being crusierweights. (Anderson, RVD, Hardy, and AJ are probably hovering 230 by now, and Bully Ray, Magnus, Samoa Joe are not)

I remain unconvinced that FCW, or even nothing since WWE has no interest in most of these guys, is a superior option TNA where you have a very real chance of easily ascending to the midcard if you are good enough. If you have talent a midcard guy in TNA can get paid at least as good as a nobody in WWE.

Let's see: join a bigger company with higher pay where smaller guys are finding new roles and help develop a TV show dedicated to other wrestlers at your weight class, OR stay in the company that pushes you to the back for bigger guys, and the one champion in your weight class is too busy feuding with a guy 100 lbs. bigger to defend the belt?

Or in Layman's terms: You sell toothpaste. Do you: A. join Colgate and start at entry level, or B. stay with Mom and Dad's Old Fashioned Toothpaste, even though they've been downsizing your position?

 

[Rayne]

You didn't claim that but you did say they are paying more and getting the same. How can you say they are paying more without making such a comparisons?

More is expected of the main event stars than was three to four years ago, because the focus is on the main event now. You are attempting to get me to claim that TNA/IW was investing their money better three or four years ago, and that is not my argument. If you don't understand that a company can make bad decisions at two separate times, I can't help you any farther.

So why is John Cena a draw then? Hell, why is anyone a draw then? Ratings are on a decline in the wrestling industry. If that is the only thing you are considering, then everyone sucks and all companies should just field the cheapest roster imaginable. If you really don't think Hardy moves a significant amount more merch than Shelley, I don't know what to tell you.

Hardy does move more merchandise than Shelley, because, as I'll say again and again it seems, the focus was on the MID-CARD. A group of performers as opposed to a single one. Hardy might sell more merchandise than any individual one of those guys, but merchandise follows ratings and point-of-sale opportunities (mainly house shows), and those are flat.

So he (Zema Ion) makes more money when he does what he was doing before he joined TNA (which he is still allowd to do while with TNA) and still has the chance, no matter how remote it might be, to grow in the company. Sounds horrible.

This has nothing to do with my argument about the WWE being a better place for a performer than TNA/IW. This is more of your reflexive "how dare you say anything that could potentially possibly be interpreted by anyone as having a chance to offend TNA!" bullshit.

TNA/IW is a better fit for Zema Ion, because he is completely unexciting as a wrestler, and does not have the material to make it within the WWE. The WWE also pays a lot more than TNA/IW; last I checked, the WWE didn't offer a "we'll pay you when we need you" schedule, but provides their wrestlers steady work until they no longer need them- like any other business.

Far too busy making money? You are hilarious if that was meant to be remotely serious. They aren't allowed to book independent stuff to begin with and they would barely have the time to anyway. If you think the cruiserweights in WWE (I'd be interested to know who they are btw since TNAs guys that have worked their way up the card don't count anymore) are getting rich you obviously forgot that all companies are pretty cheap with their lesser talents. Sure WWE does pay more but you also work more and they don't pay nobodies all that well.

Yeah. Show me the guy that left the WWE and complained about the size of his check. Not the guy who said "I think I should get as much as this guy", but the guy who said "I need to go on food stamps because I can't afford to live while wrestling for this company."

Why would they barely have the time to work independent dates? Because they're working dates for the WWE where they get paid more money per appearance then they would by performing in a hundred-seat arena for $10 tickets. Stop making my arguments so easy for me.

Yeah, I find that annoying too. (Demanding answers for the statements of others.)

Then don't ask me to do it.

No doubt the ceiling, and potential for earnings, is higher. However, is Alex Shelley ever really going to be John Cena? Extremely unlikely. I don't think everybody necessarily automatically makes more by going to WWE. TNA pays up for their top guys if you work your way up.

Yes. Every company in the entire world pays their employees more money for working up. Obvious statement is obvious. You're assuming that Alex Shelley would automatically be cast permanently as a low-card wrestler, as he wouldn't be embraced by the WWE, while at the same time saying Daniel Bryan managed to work his way up the card without being embraced by the WWE.

That's the crux of our argument. Guess what? Alex Shelley is a low-card guy now in TNA/IW, and they clearly had no plans on using him. If he was going to "work his way up" in TNA/IW, that would have happened years ago; he's not exactly new to the scene.

You're acting as if a guy isn't John Cena, he'd be better off in TNA/IW. Get back to me once you realize how many dates each company is paying for. TNA's road tour sucks; the WWE's is an established marketing machine.

But professional wrestlers can "grow" in TNA/IW, to one day take over that 1.0 ratings slot, which beats the WWE's third ranked program. Sounds like a winning move!

I'd take that bet. Both RVD and Samoa Joe have clearly been associated with the X-division style. I notice you altogether skipped Jeff Hardy. I suppose he doesn't count either for whatever convenient reason. You think people in WWE won't forget Shelley once he is gone? You might think of Daniels as a nobody but that doesn't mean he isn't prominently feature on the show right now.

I forgot Jeff Hardy. He hasn't been a cruiserweight for years; if you haven't noticed, he's put on a few pounds, and not all of that is muscle mass.

I'll place $100 down that AJ Styles will not be wrestling for TNA/IW at the end of 2013. I honor all of my monetary bets. Will you still be around the board when it comes time for me to collect?

Daniels is still a nobody, being featured in a supporting role in a company which wanted him so badly they released him last year. They hired him back because it turns out a lot of their other wrestlers were nobodies, too.

Are you in some way trying to get me to believe that the guys on whatever NXT is now make more than everyone in TNA?

No. You are taking the most ridiculous possible interpretation of an argument and trying to present that as the core of opponent's argument. It's a pretty asinine debate tactic. Knock it off.

According to you Braden Walker is too busy counting money to care

No, "according to me", which is never the case when someone says that, Braden Walker didn't have the skills to make it in the WWE.

Doesn't this simply prove that Shelley could flame out like Walker since you seem to think the hypotheticals of Bryan are so telling. I still don't buy languishing in FCW is a significant financial advantage of any real measure.

Yes, he could. The WWE is a step up from TNA/IW. People don't talk about how people could improve their exposure by moving from the WWE to TNA/IW. The WWE expects more of their performers, and not everyone that can make it in TNA/IW can make it in the WWE. You are operating under the illusion that they are remotely equal companies, when they only thing they have in common is they both have a television show.

Robbie E. makes more money now than he used to. How is that not an opportunity? You think WWE is knocking on Jesse Neal's door trying to give him a salary?

I was mocking your comparison of an opportunity in the WWE as opposed to an opportunity in TNA/IW. TNA/IW offers, at the end, an opportunity to get hired (or hired back) by the WWE. The WWE offers you the opportunity to be a movie star and main event in front of stadium crowds. Your argument seems to hinge on the idea that wrestlers don't get those opportunities in the WWE unless they're part of a small, select group, which you then go onto acknowledge as mistaken by bringing up Daniel Bryan.

I never said Shelley would be better off in TNA. This whole thing started from my comment about unestablished guys. I remain unconvinced that FCW, or even nothing since WWE has no interest in most of these guys, is a superior option TNA where you have a very real chance of easily ascending to the midcard if you are good enough. If you have talent a midcard guy in TNA can get paid at least as good as a nobody in WWE.

Yes. Again, TNA/IW is a second-tier company, whether you want to cop to it or not. Performers that can't cut it in the WWE can rise to the midcard in TNA/IW. STOP MAKING MY ARGUMENTS FOR ME. If you are an inferior wrestler without the talent to succeed in the WWE, or are looking for a company to build your skills in while you wait for the WWE to notice you, than TNA/IW provides great opportunities for you.

 

[Remix]

You didn't claim that but you did say they are paying more and getting the same. How can you say they are paying more without making such a comparisons?

Last time WWE and TNA got into a bidding war for a free agent WWE won. I also know the starting salary for a bottom ring FCW Tallent is $500 a week. Not great, but it goes up as you get tenure, and Alex Shelley is going to get a bigger pay cheque than Jacob Novak anyway. So yeah, $500 for two or three shows a week.

Also, there's Shannon Moore's reaction to being jobbed out. Buying a house and an escalade with the money he gets for lying on his back. Even the bottom of the barrell WWE guys make good money

So why is John Cena a draw then? Hell, why is anyone a draw then? Ratings are on a decline in the wrestling industry. If that is the only thing you are considering, then everyone sucks and all companies should just field the cheapest roster imaginable. If you really don't think Hardy moves a significant amount more merch than Shelley, I don't know what to tell you.

That the person saying it is wrong. And I disagree that older TNA was midcard focused. That's a byproduct of Russo going all out to give everyone a storyline. Shockingly, when given stuff to work with and a direction midcarders get to do more than if they're overlooked.

Far too busy making money? You are hilarious if that was meant to be remotely serious. They aren't allowed to book independent stuff to begin with and they would barely have the time to anyway. If you think the cruiserweights in WWE (I'd be interested to know who they are btw since TNAs guys that have worked their way up the card don't count anymore) are getting rich you obviously forgot that all companies are pretty cheap with their lesser talents. Sure WWE does pay more but you also work more and they don't pay nobodies all that well.

Actually, when you take into account that one of the founding principles of WWWF was everyone getting a cut of the box office takings, the size of WWE's audience, Jim Ross' opinion that there's never been a better time to get in on the wrestling buisness financially, and WWE jobbers being able to afford expensive things (Moore and his escalade, and long time jobbers buying three houses with Ham 'n' egger money) it can be inferred that they do.

No doubt the ceiling, and potential for earnings, is higher. However, is Alex Shelley ever really going to be John Cena? Extremely unlikely. I don't think everybody necessarily automatically makes more by going to WWE. TNA pays up for their top guys if you work your way up. I really doubt Styles was offered more money to come to WWE than what TNA paid him on his last contract. Probably the same for Joe. I guarantee you those guys make more than a guy low on the card in WWE.

Shelley probably isn't making top guy money though, is he? If he is, TNA are over paying him.

I think the crux of our disagreement is what exactly constitutes a "cruiserweight guy." If you are CM Punk or DBD and they want you it is a good gig to take. If they didn't even want Aries, I just don't see how it is the place to be for all these guys. I especially don't see why Punk and Danielson count in WWE but we can't even include Aries in TNA because he made it above the lower card Seems like an exceedingly convenient measuring stick. Being in FCW and not being able to work the indies hardly sounds like an opportunity that has you rolling in the dough.

Seth Rollins makes double the money in FCW than he did on the indies. Shelley is higher profile than that useless twat and consiquently should be able to get comfortably more than that.

What would someone like Shelley do in such a scenario? He doesn't have the mic skills of Punk or the technical ability of DBD. This could be an issue. You continually make the case that the existence of these two guys makes WWE awesome while the state of the TNA X-division is so bad. Newsflash: WWE doesn't even have a cruiserweight division right now. That should be relevant, just like the guys that have succeeded in TNA should be.DB

If you think that without a cruiserweight division cruisers get buried you're a fudging moron. And again, I'm going to draw your attention to WWE jobbers having good job security (look how long Funaki was there for) and make surprisingly good money.

Are you in some way trying to get me to believe that the guys on whatever NXT is now make more than everyone in TNA?

Everyone? No. The guys on food stamps, and the people working second jobs, yes.

According to you Braden Walker is too busy counting money to care Doesn't this simply prove that Shelley could flame out like Walker since you seem to think the hypotheticals of Bryan are so telling. I still don't buy languishing in FCW is a significant financial advantage of any real measure.

Bad example, unless you think very poorly of Shelley. Walker showed up out of shape, declined FCW and stunk up the joint with his "I'm not even going to pretend I give a fuck" attitude. If Shelley isn't a dumbass and sticks with WWE he'd be making better money for less effort than he would on the indies. Less risk of getting injured too, with the safer style, a well put together ring and WWE foots the bill for any and all injuries suffered in their rings.

I never said Shelley would be better off in TNA. This whole thing started from my comment about unestablished guys. I remain unconvinced that FCW, or even nothing since WWE has no interest in most of these guys, is a superior option TNA where you have a very real chance of easily ascending to the midcard if you are good enough. If you have talent a midcard guy in TNA can get paid at least as good as a nobody in WWE.

Which is, of course why Aries only went back to TNA after WWE decided they didn't want him, and Shelley only came back to TNA after his tryout with WWE didn't work out. WWE is the safer option for most wrestlers. The minimum wage is higher, the average wage is higher and the potential for earnings is far greater. For Shelley or 9/10 of the TNA roster WWE would be a better financial bet, garanteed.

 

[shattered dreams]

I won't be going quote war here. At some point that gets too far down the rabbit hole and it just becomes bickering over semantics only loosely related to the original point. I would like to clarify some of the misconceptions about my position that seem to have developed.

WWE does pay more for the same spot on the card than TNA does. They do work more but that doesn't change the fact that they make more. If money today is your only goal and WWE is offering you a similar spot on the card then by all means it is your best option. However, if money is the only factor then I don't understand the relevance of the relative state of TNAs X-division? It should be irrelevant if that is the case. Look at what WWE will pay you, look at what TNA will pay + what you think you might make in your spare time and pick whichever is better. Same goes for ratings or exposure whatever else might have been discussed. As far as the existence of straight to DVD movies I am not sure why that is important. Has CM Punk or DBD been in any of these movies anyway? I get the concept of potential earnings but I think you tend to sell the ability to grow in TNA short.

Interesting anecdote is what AJ Styles will say about when he got offered the development deal of $500 dollars a week. He turned it down and 3 months later they shut that developmental place down and his assumption was they would have just cut his "contract." Instead he went with TNA and others and is doing pretty good for himself. I know wrestlers aren't good at math but I have a hard time believing they are spending all their time counting $26,000 dollars a year earned as an independent contractor that still has to be used to pay for healthcare among many other things. The argument for the potential of WWE should be adjusted for the possibilities of making it that high on the card. Just the fact that it is possible isn't enough by itself from an expected outcome standpoint. The reason I kept talking about build is that I think a lot of these smaller guys would have to start much lower than a DBD. The time frames to get somewhere, and associated probabilities of success, make the potential comparisons much more murky than they are being made out to be IMO.

Shelley leaving is likely the best for him. He had stalled out in TNA as far as growth. If he hadn't stalled out then I think it would be much more debatable. I don't really have high hopes for him in WWE but I wish him the best. I just think it is silly to argue that WWE is a better spot for cruiserweights because of the state of such a division in the current TNA product when the current WWE doesn't even have such a division. They might at some point but the wrestling industry is always ripe with rumors of new promotions that don't come to fruition. Even if they do the recent track record of these tertiary shows in WWE is pretty questionable. If the shows don't do well I can't see them continuing to pay the talent wages much better than an Impact type wage. I still believe that for guys that are unestablished cruiserweights TNA is no worse than WWE as a place to be all things considered.

Oh yeah, as far as the AJ bet you are on Rayne. I prefer bets of honor, so if you want to adjust the terms I am fine with that, but if money is what motivates you I am fine with your terms.

 

[Rayne]

Oh yeah, as far as the AJ bet you are on Rayne. I prefer bets of honor, so if you want to adjust the terms I am fine with that, but if money is what motivates you I am fine with your terms.

I'd have to change the term. His contract doesn't expire until 2014, so he's locked in there, and I don't think he'll be granted a release. I thought it expired in 2013, with my expectation that it will not be renewed, and he had less than a year remaining on it.

I'll still make that bet with you for 2014, however the term then becomes excessively long, as I strongly doubt that I'll be around here then.

Also, the X-Division is irrelevant. There isn't a guy in the division who anyone cares about besides Austin Aries, and he keeps feuding with Zema Ion because there is literally no one else who could hang with him right now.

 

[Hero_kidstackz]

I just pray to god alex shelley dont become a jobber helping get people over in tthe long run i dont think he would stay long if that happen but then again you just cant leave a wwe contract like you can tna i been waiting for the revised C weight division ever since HHH became COO remember when he promised c weight and better tag team? Idk about tag but c weight a different story. Back to topic matches with rey, tyson kidd and mayb even dolph would be great not many other c weights unless new talent keep coming

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I just pray to god alex shelley dont become a jobber helping get people over in tthe long run i dont think he would stay long if that happen but then again you just cant leave a wwe contract like you can tna i been waiting for the revised C weight division ever since HHH became COO remember when he promised c weight and better tag team? Idk about tag but c weight a different story. Back to topic matches with rey, tyson kidd and mayb even dolph would be great not many other c weights unless new talent keep coming

I hope like hell he does, because it'll probably mean his time spent in that company will come to a close a lot sooner, which'll open the door to a TNA return, where he belongs. The X Division needs him. The tag division needs him. TNA fans need him.

You won't find a bigger fan on this forum hoping for a total flameout between the two so he can come home.