a letter to Vince on the topic of tag wrestling

[Ambiguous Turd]

The bottom line here, Tastycles, is that you and I are never going to agree on the topic of Tag Team Wrestling.

Now, I could spend an entire morning and dissect each of your points again like I did the other times .... and quite frankly I have an itch to do so as there are a ton of remarks in your responses I could very easily do just that as they are so blatantly wrong. However for what purpose? Just so you can break your promise and keep posting again, just like you did with your last post?

In the interest of "completeness". Funny.

All this has turned into is a battle of "Who can get the last word in", and quite frankly, I've grown tired of it. Believe me, I've dealt with plenty of other obnoxious posters who have done the same thing-- argue for the sake of arguing.

I am comfortable with all the points I've raised, and by responding to you again, we are only going to be repeating and rehashing those same arguments.


The main differences in opinion are:

You think Vince has never put any emphasis on the Tag Team Division. I say he has clearly put more emphasis on the Tag Team Division in the past compared to today.

You think that ONLY quality of wrestlers matters in determining an effective Tag Team Division. I say that quantity and to a lesser degree, quality matters in determining that.

You say that Chris Jericho and Big Show are Tag Team Champions because Vince is intent on improving the Tag Team Division. I say that the primary reason they are champions is because he wants both Jericho and Big Show, two Upper Midcarders, floating between Raw and Smackdown to help support the lack of quantity of Upper Midcarders on both shows. This wouldn't be an issue if Vince was not participating in the Roster Split, as Jericho himself stated.

You think that the Tag Team wrestlers themselves and their wrestling ability is the reason for not getting over with the audience. I say the problem is with the both the Creative Department for not pushing the division properly as well as giving the teams decent gimmicks .... as well as the opportunity to get themselves over on the mic to get the audience to care about them in the first place.

You somehow think that TNA's business model revolves entirely around WWE's. When I start seeing TNA doing House Shows to the degree that WWE does, getting Impact out of the Impact Zone, making Impact go live, adopting a traditional ring (which they should actually do), go back to a Face/Heel broadcasting team, usher in ringside managers (yes, that means Male managers), make Dixie Carter a Heel owner ala Vince, tour their PPV locations regularly .... then we can talk. Until then, I maintain that the Creative pointers that they actually did follow from WWE have been piss poor ones.


And no, we aren't obviously going to agree on any of those. So why bother keep it going?


Oh, and btw, why don't you watch your snide insults? Rude and disrespectful people really rub me the wrong way. But, if you really want to go there, feel free to PM me, and we can both have a nice little talk.

 

[D-Man]

First of all, I'm stepping into this debate before it blows even further out of proportion (and because I'm just dying to give my views on it ). Nothing I'm about to say is meant to instigate anyone, but I'm not going to pull punches and play nice, either. And if anyone thinks I'm out of line for stepping in, I could give two shits. Welcome to the fact that these two gentlemen decided to make their beefs public on a public wrestling forum. That being said...

I've read this entire argument (which was very entertaining, by the way) and all I've gotten out of it is this...

Tag Team Character Development
Sidious blames Vince and the inner workings of the WWE for everything that he feels doesn't "entertain" him on WWE television. He is not willing to put any blame, whatsoever, on specific wrestlers for what they bring to the table in terms of their own character development.

Tasty believes the wrestlers themselves have a ball to run with and if they don't run with it correctly their character will be buried by WWE management because it doesn't generate dollars for them.

The Purpose of Jerishow
Sidious believes the only purpose they serve is to get their faces on television to balance out the television shows. He also believe that they don't necessarily work as the quintessential, cookie-cutter tag team that we've all been accustomed to over the years because they are not a gimmick (i.e. The Smokin' Gunns, The Highlanders as opposed to MVP & Mark Henry).

Tasty believes their combination was an inception that would generate interest in the tag team division. He believes their recent, repetitive presence on television proves that the WWE is putting emphasis on the tag division again.

The WWE as a Whole
Sidious believes that it has dug itself into a hole (mostly) over the past 10 years. Throughout this downward spiral, the many changes it has implemented (i.e. discontinuation of managers, less emphasis on midcard divisions, less use of "gimmicks") has severely hurt the product. In a nut shell, the WWE product is no longer "entertaining" to him. The lack of these downplayed divisions (midcard, tag team, managers) is severely hurting the WWE's character development. This, in turn is currently hurting the WWE's revenue and will only become more severe in the future.

Tasty believes that the WWE has had its ups AND downs, but things are taking a turn for the positive. (What he believes to be) the newly generated interest in the tag divisions and midcard titles shows that the WWE does indeed care about those divisions, even though they aren't the primary money-makers for the company. They'll still continue to keep their primary focus on the main event, but now they're beginning to give notoriety to wrestlers in other divisions. But this is being done for the main purpose of nothing more than building up the main events of the future, since they are the money-makers.

Now, Let's Be Blunt
Both of these guys went from having a really good debate to having a really good, HEATED debate. It seems that they're both becoming more and more successful in pushing each other's buttons. Sidious just recently got hit with the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, to the point where he's talking "tough guy" with Tasty and instigating a PM battle between the two. But then again, Tasty's debating style can be anything but nice at times, especially when he's 100% against an opponent's stubborn views. It appears to me that Sidious is fitting into Tasty's categorization.

Sidious has a very detailed, laid out plan for what he is completely convinced will "save" the WWE. Unless all of these factors are in place, the WWE is doomed. Tasty is keeping an open mind to the way that the WWE is handling their recent, extreme adjustments to their product.

Now, let's get real about tag teams here. What's the moral of this story? Unless tag teams go back to sharing a collective, gimmicky-name and persona, Sidious thinks they are all dogshit. He thinks wrestlers are scripted from soup to nuts in every way that they're portrayed on television. He curses Vince for everything that he's done over the past 10 years since he took over creative and he thinks the remainder of the creative team should be fired. In a nut shell, he obviously hates Vince McMahon.

Tasty shared the views of the majority of people that I see in the IWC. He keeps an open mind to all aspects of the business and doesn't claim to be an expert. His knowledge of the roots of the sport is vast and can debate with the best of them on the history of the product and the effects it has produced, but he doesn't claim to be a fortune teller. He doesn't think that his chemistry lab has devised the perfect formula to put the ultimate healing ointment on the WWE and the future of professional wrestling. This is why I respect him and his views and I agree with everything he said 150%.

On the other hand, Sidious will never waiver in his quest to constantly publicize his negativity towards the product. His mind is far from open, and there is no way to please him unless you follow the strict rules of "Sidious's way or the highway." Nothing that anyone says or does will ever matter because the entire world is wrong and he is right. Even when the majority of posters in the IWC disagree with his views, none of that matters. Not even VINCE and the creative team of a multi-billion dollar organization knows more than a poster on Wrestlezone.com.

Sidious, believe it or not, I will always respect you for your convictions, your unwaivering views on the product and your knowledge of professional wrestling. But if you know so much and you're so right about all of your views, then whatever you do for a living is wasted. You're in the wrong business. Why don't you just go and fill out an application in Stamford, CT for a spot on the creative team and show Vince who the real genius is? Oh, that's right. Because Vince only caters to an "audience of one" and he'd never listen to your genius, right? Someday you're gonna have to realize that if the majority of experts think one way and you think another, you might want to re-think some of your views.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

First of all, I'm stepping into this debate before it blows even further out of proportion (and because I'm just dying to give my views on it ). Nothing I'm about to say is meant to instigate anyone, but I'm not going to pull punches and play nice, either. And if anyone thinks I'm out of line for stepping in, I could give two shits. Welcome to the fact that these two gentlemen decided to make their beefs public on a public wrestling forum. That being said...

I've read this entire argument (which was very entertaining, by the way) and all I've gotten out of it is this...

Tag Team Character Development
Sidious blames Vince and the inner workings of the WWE for everything that he feels doesn't "entertain" him on WWE television. He is not willing to put any blame, whatsoever, on specific wrestlers for what they bring to the table in terms of their own character development.

Tasty believes the wrestlers themselves have a ball to run with and if they don't run with it correctly their character will be buried by WWE management because it doesn't generate dollars for them.

The Purpose of Jerishow
Sidious believes the only purpose they serve is to get their faces on television to balance out the television shows. He also believe that they don't necessarily work as the quintessential, cookie-cutter tag team that we've all been accustomed to over the years because they are not a gimmick (i.e. The Smokin' Gunns, The Highlanders as opposed to MVP & Mark Henry).

Tasty believes their combination was an inception that would generate interest in the tag team division. He believes their recent, repetitive presence on television proves that the WWE is putting emphasis on the tag division again.

The WWE as a Whole
Sidious believes that it has dug itself into a hole (mostly) over the past 10 years. Throughout this downward spiral, the many changes it has implemented (i.e. discontinuation of managers, less emphasis on midcard divisions, less use of "gimmicks") has severely hurt the product. In a nut shell, the WWE product is no longer "entertaining" to him. The lack of these downplayed divisions (midcard, tag team, managers) is severely hurting the WWE's character development. This, in turn is currently hurting the WWE's revenue and will only become more severe in the future.

Tasty believes that the WWE has had its ups AND downs, but things are taking a turn for the positive. (What he believes to be) the newly generated interest in the tag divisions and midcard titles shows that the WWE does indeed care about those divisions, even though they aren't the primary money-makers for the company. They'll still continue to keep their primary focus on the main event, but now they're beginning to give notoriety to wrestlers in other divisions. But this is being done for the main purpose of nothing more than building up the main events of the future, since they are the money-makers.

Now, Let's Be Blunt
Both of these guys went from having a really good debate to having a really good, HEATED debate. It seems that they're both becoming more and more successful in pushing each other's buttons. Sidious just recently got hit with the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, to the point where he's talking "tough guy" with Tasty and instigating a PM battle between the two. But then again, Tasty's debating style can be anything but nice at times, especially when he's 100% against an opponent's stubborn views. It appears to me that Sidious is fitting into Tasty's categorization.

Sidious has a very detailed, laid out plan for what he is completely convinced will "save" the WWE. Unless all of these factors are in place, the WWE is doomed. Tasty is keeping an open mind to the way that the WWE is handling their recent, extreme adjustments to their product.

Now, let's get real about tag teams here. What's the moral of this story? Unless tag teams go back to sharing a collective, gimmicky-name and persona, Sidious thinks they are all dogshit. He thinks wrestlers are scripted from soup to nuts in every way that they're portrayed on television. He curses Vince for everything that he's done over the past 10 years since he took over creative and he thinks the remainder of the creative team should be fired. In a nut shell, he obviously hates Vince McMahon.

Tasty shared the views of the majority of people that I see in the IWC. He keeps an open mind to all aspects of the business and doesn't claim to be an expert. His knowledge of the roots of the sport is vast and can debate with the best of them on the history of the product and the effects it has produced, but he doesn't claim to be a fortune teller. He doesn't think that his chemistry lab has devised the perfect formula to put the ultimate healing ointment on the WWE and the future of professional wrestling. This is why I respect him and his views and I agree with everything he said 150%.

On the other hand, Sidious will never waiver in his quest to constantly publicize his negativity towards the product. His mind is far from open, and there is no way to please him unless you follow the strict rules of "Sidious's way or the highway." Nothing that anyone says or does will ever matter because the entire world is wrong and he is right. Even when the majority of posters in the IWC disagree with his views, none of that matters. Not even VINCE and the creative team of a multi-billion dollar organization knows more than a poster on Wrestlezone.com.

Sidious, believe it or not, I will always respect you for your convictions, your unwaivering views on the product and your knowledge of professional wrestling. But if you know so much and you're so right about all of your views, then whatever you do for a living is wasted. You're in the wrong business. Why don't you just go and fill out an application in Stamford, CT for a spot on the creative team and show Vince who the real genius is? Oh, that's right. Because Vince only caters to an "audience of one" and he'd never listen to your genius, right? Someday you're gonna have to realize that if the majority of experts think one way and you think another, you might want to re-think some of your views.

Quick congrats on a lot of your analysis.

There is nothing more in this world that I want to do than be a writer (preferably the Lead Writer) on the WWE Creative Team, as that has been a dream of mine since I was 18.

My other dream when I was younger was to be a Heel manager in the company. I am able to take bumps and have done so as a heel ring announcer in the Indys, however am absolutely not in the condition to be a manager in WWE, since they want managers trained right along with the wrestlers and in the same condition as the wrestlers. I just don't have the physique for that, however can do basic bumping.

The problem with becoming a writer is plain and simply, you have to have a Hollywood background in writing in order to get on the writing team. I can absolutely 100% guarantee I could write better scripts than the current writers on the Creative Team could write. And I also have an absolutely clear cut vision for where I would take each of the shows, as you mentioned.

The problem I have, however, would be the same problem that Paul Heyman had. Vince and I would eventually butt heads. Vince gets in a pissing contest with his writers when they perceive that they have better ideas than he does. I have no doubt that if Heyman was allowed to book either ECW, Smackdown, or Raw, it would produce higher ratings than any of the current writers writing the show. And he proved it when he was writing Smackdown when Stephanie was on leave of absence during her pregnancy.

But Vince likes to flaunt his authority, even sometimes at the expense of his own company, because the man can't control his ego. And he hurt ECW, just because he wanted to get into a pissing contest with Paul Heyman. Here, I would be the one having a sincere desire to want to help Vince and his company produce some incredible numbers, but I think there would be a lot of push back from each of us if we actually worked together.

It would certainly be an interesting ride, though.

However, yes I have stated many times that I think Vince gives too many matches away for free on weekly television.

I have touched base many times on the different directions I would take each of the shows in, but Raw and Smackdown would have the number of matches reduced, and in exchange, there would be more time dedicated to angles, getting character personas over on the mic to make the much needed attachment to the audience, and more storyline aspects returning to the show.

In essence, the shows would be primarily geared towards drawing the viewer into intense conflicts that actually make you want to see the big fights where they really count .... that being on PPV. I would not give you Randy Orton vs John Cena on Raw, only to give it to you again later in the week on PPV. Rather, I would keep these stars separated from each other in the ring until the actual PPV.

Also, with me, you wouldn't be seeing feuds drag on for 4-6 months. Most feuds would end around 2 or 3 PPV's at the most and then move on to another.

You wouldn't be seeing the same stars feuding with each other several times a year, because I would also have an intense focus on Developmental and constantly producing new fresh faces.

Managers would be brought back on all brands.

Face/Heel Broadcasting teams would return.

There would be a much greater focus on the production value of superstar entrances. In some cases and depending on the superstar, even a rock concert-like feel. I would like to see a much greater variety in the types of themes used, from rock, to alternative, rap, 80's music, instrumental, ..... themes that elicit fear for horror type characters like Kane (John Carpenter's music is an inspiration to me) as well as music that gets you absolutely psyched.

All areas of the roster would be focused on being developed, and that includes the thread topic with Tag Team Wrestling.

More time would be allocated to character development and guys/gals being given time on the mic to get themselves over with the crowd.

Raw would be turned into a very different show with a completely different feel to it. More geared towards the older teens and adults. Definitely would be a show with a much more serious feel to it, somewhat dark at times, mixed with some Hollywood elements, storylines with twist and turns in them, with some very complex characters involved. Angles and storylines that really attach to your emotions while making you excited, angry, confused, laugh, and cry. You would have an absolute pledge from me that you would NOT feel like you are watching the same show every single week like you do today.

And I stand behind my thoughts that this show needs a complete, absolute overhaul and something new that has never been tried before to give fans something to talk about once again.

Smackdown would be somewhat of a throwback to 80's and early 90's wrestling, and somewhat resemble the current overall WWE product as well as WCW Nitro, in as far as being a family-oriented product.

And ECW would be renamed and turned into a very wrestling-focused product, for the true fans of technical wrestling.


So yeah, my vision is very clear cut in what to do with each of the shows.

As far as me "hating" Vince McMahon. I had a lot of respect for the past accomplishments of the man, and very much enjoyed him as a TV persona from the Hogan Era to the Post Attitude Era. However, no I have absolutely been less than impressed with the changes the man has made to the business over the years. No, I don't think he is listening to fan feedback, and rather, he is listening to the "Audience of One".

As far as "the experts", I think it is beyond clear that even though WWE needs people in Creative with some experience to maintain a nice balance of the old .... they also need some fresh new blood in there with some new and innovative ideas to give the audience something fresh that they've never had before. So in my opinion, the company really needs both, and the company as well should be open to new ideas that haven't been tried before to get people talking about sports entertainment once again.

Thank you for your comments, though. And yes, I am pretty stubborn. It is possible to break through my stubborness, but one has to have a pretty damn good case and be prepared for some severe push back if they want to attempt to. A lot of that comes from a mix of my personality, but also my decades of studying the complexities of the business, itself.