2011 NCAA Football Thread

[TNA cross the line]

Clemson won 23-3. The game was not all that close. Va Tech only had 2 turnovers and 6 penalties for 60 yards. Clemson had 1 turnover and 5 penalties for 61 yards. Va Tech at home got flat out beat.

Be that as it may VT has the talent and potential to be a team better than Clemson and FSU and VT got beat soundly at home. It may have only been 6 penalties for 60 yards but they came in very crucial situations like 3rd downs and one roughing the punter. Clemson scored 10 points as a result of very avoidable Int and fumble. VTs defense took a powerful offence who was averaging 35 points a game and held them to 23. It WAS a close game all the way to about 9 min mark in the 4th and was 10-3 at half time. You obviously did not watch the game and to say it wasn't close at all is just dumb.

 

[Big Sexy]

Be that as it may VT has the talent and potential to be a team better than Clemson and FSU and VT got beat soundly at home. It may have only been 6 penalties for 60 yards but they came in very crucial situations like 3rd downs and one roughing the punter. Clemson scored 10 points as a result of very avoidable Int and fumble. VTs defense took a powerful offence who was averaging 35 points a game and held them to 23. It WAS a close game all the way to about 9 min mark in the 4th and was 10-3 at half time. You obviously did not watch the game and to say it wasn't close at all is just dumb.

I said it wasn't all that close and it wasn't. Va Tech never led during the game and they were down by at least 14 points for the last 25 minutes of the game. At no point during the last 25 minutes did Va Tech look like they were going to come back. The longest drive they had in the second half was just 7 plays and they didn't even get into Clemson territory on that drive.

 

[TNA cross the line]

At no point during the last 25 minutes did Va Tech look like they were going to come back.

Actually they were in the redzone with The score at 17-3 with about 10 minutes left in the fourth but went 4 and out when on 4th down Logan Thomas got pressured and threw the ball to the full back on an out route and missed a wide open TE in the endzone who got open right as Thomas threw to the FB. Had Thomas waited a second longer it would have been a TD and the score 17-10 and VT's Defense would have rode that momentum as Lane Staduim would have gone ape shit. But it didn't happen and we lost.

 

[Big Sexy]

Actually they were in the redzone with The score at 17-3 with about 10 minutes left in the fourth but went 4 and out when on 4th down Logan Thomas got pressured and threw the ball to the full back on an out route and missed a wide open TE in the endzone who got open right as Thomas threw to the FB. Had Thomas waited a second longer it would have been a TD and the score 17-10 and VT's Defense would have rode that momentum as Lane Staduim would have gone ape shit.

There's a lot of what ifs and assumptions in that statement. The FACT is that just like every other time in the second half, Clemson's defense got a stop and did not allow Va Tech to score.

 

[TNA cross the line]

There's a lot of what ifs and assumptions in that statement. The FACT is that just like every other time in the second half, Clemson's defense got a stop and did not allow Va Tech to score.

And thats what sucks about being a Va Tech fan every seasons is about what ifs and assumptions. Big preseason hype and the early and midseason let downs however they have always been phenomenal in late OCT and through NOV iv always said a playoff system would benefit teams like VT so much.

 

[Big Sexy]

LSU has proven to me that they are without a doubt the best team in the country and I would be very surprised if they did not win the National Title this year. As to who their opponent will be that's still up in the air but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that we will see a LSU/Bama rematch. Oklahoma State will obviously take on LSU if they win out but I'm not sure they will get by Oklahoma. Stanford would be next in line if they win out but they still have to get by Oregon and either USC (for a second time) or Arizona State in the Pac 12 Championship game.

If both OK State and Stanford end up losing then I believe a 1 loss Bama would get in over any other 1 loss team and over an undefeated Boise team. I personally don't want to see a rematch because I'd rather see a new match up but I do believe that we saw the top two teams in the country play each other Saturday night so it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

LSU has proven to me that they are without a doubt the best team in the country and I would be very surprised if they did not win the National Title this year. As to who their opponent will be that's still up in the air but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that we will see a LSU/Bama rematch. Oklahoma State will obviously take on LSU if they win out but I'm not sure they will get by Oklahoma. Stanford would be next in line if they win out but they still have to get by Oregon and either USC (for a second time) or Arizona State in the Pac 12 Championship game.

If both OK State and Stanford end up losing then I believe a 1 loss Bama would get in over any other 1 loss team and over an undefeated Boise team. I personally don't want to see a rematch because I'd rather see a new match up but I do believe that we saw the top two teams in the country play each other Saturday night so it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Everything you've said is probably true except one thing.

Stanford will not have to play USC again if the Cardinal win out. It doesn't matter if the Trojans win the South. Our sanctions prevent us from playing beyond 12 games (AKA regular season). USC is done after November 26th regardless of what happens.

The only reason we were allowed to play 13 games last year is because Hawaii petitioned the NCAA cited financial concerns if they took the game from them in Hawaii. USC was a huge draw and people had booked flights and rooms months in advance. Due to that, the NCAA allowed USC to play Hawaii as a 13th game.

It's a common misconception that a lot of people, who don't follow Pac-12 football closely, are misinformed about. Hell even some who do are unaware of this.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Also, Big Sexy, there's one other thing; UCLA controls their own destiny at this point. Arizona State is on the outside looking in after their loss to the Bruins on Saturday.

I know it's hard to believe, but UCLA is in first place in the Pac-12 South.

 

[Big Sexy]

Everything you've said is probably true except one thing.

Stanford will not have to play USC again if the Cardinal win out. It doesn't matter if the Trojans win the South. Our sanctions prevent us from playing beyond 12 games (AKA regular season). USC is done after November 26th regardless of what happens.

The only reason we were allowed to play 13 games last year is because Hawaii petitioned the NCAA cited financial concerns if they took the game from them in Hawaii. USC was a huge draw and people had booked flights and rooms months in advance. Due to that, the NCAA allowed USC to play Hawaii as a 13th game.

It's a common misconception that a lot of people, who don't follow Pac-12 football closely, are misinformed about. Hell even some who do are unaware of this.

Good call. I expect USC to lose to Oregon, and Arizona State to win out so it may have been a moot point anyways. Stanford's toughest test is definitely Oregon.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

You may want to read the above post too.

My bad, I tried to edit to include it, but I couldn't get there before you replied. Arizona State can win out right now and it won't matter. UCLA is in charge of their own destiny. If Arizona State loses to Arizona, they're done for good. Even if UCLA loses to the Trojans.

Also, as a side note to your Oklahoma and Oklahoma State comment, prior to this past Saturday, I would have agreed with you. Oklahoma lost Dom Whaley and Ryan Broyles for the season. That's going to be HUGE headed into Bedlam. Right now you have to favor Oklahoma State over an Oklahoma team that's getting blasted with key injuries.

 

[Big Sexy]

You may want to read the above post too.

My bad, I tried to edit to include it, but I couldn't get there before you replied. Arizona State can win out right now and it won't matter. UCLA is in charge of their own destiny. If Arizona State loses to Arizona, they're done for good. Even if UCLA loses to the Trojans.

I know UCLA is in control but I don't see them beating USC. ASU is the only team still in contention for the Pac 12 south that has an easy schedule where they will be favored in every game.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I know UCLA is in control but I don't see them beating USC. ASU is the only team still in contention for the Pac 12 south that has an easy schedule where they will be favored in every game.

I think you're right and you might be wrong. Arizona State has had a number of problems that give me pause when looking at the Duel in the Desert. I honestly believe that Arizona can beat them. Will they be favored? Sure. But look at the teams the Sun Devils have had problems with; Illinois, UCLA, and Oregon.

Arizona moves the ball up and down the field as efficiently as any of them. Despite having ZERO offensive line, Foles is still 4th in the nation in passing. I mean, if Kevin Prince can throw for almost 200 yards on your defense, what the hell do you think Foles and Criner can accomplish.

I realize that Arizona looks like shit, but they always get up for that game and it's important to note that THEY get to play spoiler this year. They can ruin ASU's season and that will mean a lot to that team. It will be Foles' last game as a Wildcat (I don't count ULL) and it will be the one that means the most to him.

ASU is suspect to me right now and that's a very loseable game for them.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

For what it's worth, I actually think that ASU's schedule is a bit more difficult than UCLA's at this point. Cal isn't a bad team and has the ability to shock ASU. I think that Utah and Colorado are less of a threat to beat UCLA than Arizona and Cal are to beat ASU.

When it comes to their two rivalry games, anything can happen. UCLA can beat USC and UA can beat ASU. Or vice versa.

Speaking strictly as someone who sees these teams play week in and week out, I'd favor UCLA's schedule over ASU's. USC is entirely banged up on defense and missing some really key players that could prove to be costly against Rick's Pistol formation.

 

[Big Sexy]

Regardless of who wins the south I think we can all agree that Stanford or Oregon will likely annihilate them. The class of the Pac 12 is in the north this year.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Regardless of who wins the south I think we can all agree that Stanford or Oregon will likely annihilate them. The class of the Pac 12 is in the north this year.

Pretty much. If, and this is a BIG if, Stanford gets past Oregon, I think Stanford is the likeliest team to lose in the Pac-12 title game. They've suffered the injury bug much like Oklahoma has recently and it's hit them at key positions. Owusu is likely done for the season after those big hits two weeks in a row. They've lost 2 tight ends, and multiple backs.

If EITHER of those teams is going to lose in the title game, it's going to be Stanford. I would still put big money on Stanford and Oregon, though.

 

[Megatron]

Since we're mostly clear of all the OOC games (aside from a few cupcakes for SEC, Pac 12, and Big 12) so here's my rankings after the end of September.

1. LSU - Still think Alabama's better, but 3 wins against WVU, Miss. St (even though they seem very flawed now) and Oregon is more impressive then anyone else. The game against Bama will be the SEC West Championship Game, for sure.
2. Alabama - Have looked equally impressive, capping it off with a dominating performance against a better-then-they-looked Arkansas team. I wouldn't be surprised if the game against LSU was a 13-10 type affair.
3. Oklahoma - These guys, unlike the first two teams, have a passing offense that, as expected, has lit up most of their competition. Plus, holding EJ Manuel and Florida State to 13 points at Florida State was impressive.
4. Boise State - I might take them over any other team in the country in a one game scenario with Kellen Moore under center, but the Georgia win would've looked better if they pulled off the win against South Carolina. This is probably their ceiling until the other teams drop.
5. Stanford - Andrew Luck has played as well as expected, although their toughest test has been Arizona (which, if you haven't heard, isn't all that good). Their schedule looks very, very manageable as well, with no Arizona State as Crossover and Oregon coming to Stanford.
6. Wisconsin - Russell Wilson has given the Badgers the playmaking threat and talent that they expected when he got here. However they, like Stanford, haven't faced a stern test yet, which will change next week against Nebraska.
7. Oklahoma State - Beating Texas A&M in college station is no joke, even though the Aggies screwed themselves over with all of the turnovers they had in the 2nd half. Brandon Weeden to Justin Blackmon has been just as effective as last year, as well.
8. Nebraska - They have had some issues defensively (mainly Fresno State hanging 20+ on them) but they are still undefeated now will be able to show how good they really are with Big 10 play starting up this week.
9. Oregon - I know they looked bad against LSU Week One, but this offenses will still be in the upper echelon this season with LaMichael James and Darron Thomas at the helm. The showdown against Stanford will be for the Pac-12 North crown, for sure.
10. South Carolina - Cocky rounds out the top ten with Marcus Lattimore leading the way. Stephen Garcia is quite the enigma, though, and I'd be surprised if the Ol' Ballcoach has any confidence with him. Their D-Line as well is crazy good.
11. Virginia Tech - The Hokies, like some others, have fed up on weak OOC competition, but have done what they're supposed to do and have won all of them. It will be interesting to see how they fare against what appears to be their biggest divisional competition - the triple option Yellow Jackets.
12. Georgia Tech - So yes, I have the Yellow Jackets right behind their divisonal rivals, just because the triple option is clicking like it was when they won teh ACC two years ago. Tevin Washington has been accurate with the deep ball and its one of the main reasons why these guys are 4-0 for the first time since 1990.
13. Florida - This team also hasn't shown much, but they are 2-0 in SEC play (granted, those wins were over Tennessee and Kentucky, but it's still two). Will Muschamp has a lot of talent that he can work with, starting with RB Chris Rainey, and will no doubt be the Gamecocks toughest test in the SEC East.
14. Texas A&M - They did, indeed, blow it against Oklahoma State yesterday. The game had all of the makings for them taking the reigns and getting the first lead in the Big 12, but they shot themselves in the foot constantly in that 3rd quarter. Are now the 3rd horse in a 3 team race, and will have to pull an upset on OU to keep their hopes alive.
15. Clemson - The Tigers have really made a name for themselves over these last two weeks, picking up an upset win over SEC foe Auburn and an upset over ACC favorite Florida State. Tajh Boyd has played big in both of these games and with the talent hotbed that they're in they might be finally playing to their potential.
16. South Florida - BJ Daniels and crew have reeled off 4 straight wins to start the season, with none of them being against top competition after their week 1 win against ND. Still, they and WVU appear to be the class of the Big East and should be the teams fighting for the BCS spot at the end of the season.
17. Baylor - I'd put money on RGIII being the best dual threat QB in the nation, and he could carry this team on his back for an 8 or 9 win season, which no doubt would be a huge success when you consider most people think they're the fourth or fifth best team in their own STATE.
18. West Virginia - They hurt themselves with mental mistakes last night against LSU, and when you make as many mistakes as they did against a top 5 team in LSU, you're chances of winning are very, very low. Geno Smith still should have no problem lighting up the Big East, and I'd still tab them as my favorites in the league, despite having them below South Florida.
19. Illinois - Somewhat of a dropoff here between the top 2 teams in the Big ten and #3. I don't think the Fightin' Illini are the 3rd best team in the conference, mind you, but out of the teams involved in that discussion (MSU, UM, OSU, Iowa) they have the best win (vs. Arizona State) and still have a perfect record, which 3 of the 4 don't have. I don't think they'll maintain this spot, but from what we've seen, the Zookers are on track to go bowling for back to back season.
20. Arkansas - Probably a little bit too big of a dropoff for a team they did get beaten by one of the three best teams in the nation, but they put up only a few jabs before the Crimson Tide hit them with the knockout punch early and often. They still have an offense to be dynamic, but there appears to be a steep step between them and the top 2 in the division.
21. Arizona State - Yes, they lost to Illinois, but it was in Champaign and they did just dominate a pretty solid USC team. Brock Osweiller is leading the best team in their division and I'd be absolutely shocked if they weren't the ones fighting Oregon or Stanford for the Pac 12 championship.
22. Florida State - Two straight losses in games where they were supposed to show they were back have hurt their ranking. While they did limit the OU offense for the most part, losing a key ACC matchup against Clemson is never good. They're gonna be playing catch up for quite some time now.
23. Michigan - The Wolverines still have many question marks, but they have beaten everyone on their schedule so far, 3 of them quite handily and one with late heroics. However, now going on the road, it will be interesting to see how this team plays. They have Northwestern and MSU coming up on the road (after Minnesota this week), which will be true tests to see how they stack in the Big 10. Like Illinois, i don't think they'll stay, but they've beaten who they've been thrown at so far.
24. Texas - I don't wanna say the Longhorns are back, because I don't think they're better then the 5th or 6th team in the conference right now, but they do have Garrett Gilbert out of there (he wasn't good) and have rekindled the McCoy to Shipley combination, just with Colt and Justin's younger brothers, respectively. They'll have to rely on the defense to win many of their games, though.
25. Michigan State - Homer alert, I know. They lost their only test, on the road against ND, and have filled up on cupcakes since, but this team still has a strong defense (who really shouldn't be blamed for all 31, since 7 were on KO return and NDs FG was off a long INT return). They may have to rely on that to win them some games, because their offensive line is still a question mark, but I think Le'Veon Bell should be getting slightly more carries then Baker for now, because he's a bruiser and can shed some arm tackles and take slight pressure off the line. I still like Baker, and he could get going in the big ten play since he hasn't had a boatload of carries and should be relatively fresh, but Bell can punch it inside the 10 and has breakaway speed. This team will have to show up this next month if they wanna take seriously in the Big 10, with a stretch of games looking like - @OSU, vs. UM, vs. UW, @ Nebraska. The Big 10 schedule makers didn't do them much help, but there is a bye in between those games and I don't think 3-1 is unrealistic, should the run game produce.

With half the conference season over for most, here's a new (and condensed) top 25.

1. LSU - Beat Bama in Bama and is in the drivers seat for the BCS National Championship.
2. Stanford - Have the best QB and will be in good shape should they get by Oregon (although I don't believe they will).
3. Oklahoma State - One of the few undefeateds left, their D is still very suspect after KSU's rather weak offense hung 45 on them.
4. Boise State - I'd love to see them in the National Championship should the two above them fall, but I think a rematch is more possible (sadly).
5. Alabama - Gave that game away to LSU. Have nobody to blame but themselves.
6. Oregon - The offense is in it's groove and could be a darkhorse contender should everyone above them fall, although I think a Bama/LSU rematch would happen before an LSU/Oregon rematch.
7. Oklahoma - Theoretically they appear to have the best chance of the 1 loss teams since they lost so early.
8. Arkansas - They can create quite a dilemma if they can knock off LSU in a few weeks to create a three way tie in teh SEC West (which would be complete chaos).
9. Clemson - Complete offense, no defense. Fun to watch, but can be shut down by a good defense.
10. Penn State - Complete defense, little offense. Boring to watch, but always seem to be in the game. I know the scandal is over their head right now, though, so it'll be interesting to see how this team reacts towards JoePa.
11. Virginia Tech
12. Michigan State
13. Georgia
14. Houston
15. Wisconsin
16. South Carolina
17. USC
18. Georgia Tech
19. Texas
20. Nebraska
21. Kansas State
22. Michigan
23. Auburn
24. Cincinnati
25. Louisville

 

[Davi323]

While the Penn State scandal has dominated the college football world, another potentially very important thing happened yesterday that may have slipped through the reporting cracks.

Yesterday the NCAA slapped the dreaded "Failure to monitor" accusation against Ohio State. For those of you that followed the whole Jim Tressel/Tattoogate stuff, the one thing that OSU Buckeye fans held on to was that the NCAA had not used those words. Now, in light of yet another booster related scandal, involving a former booster named Robert DiGeronimo who provided improper benefits to players, the NCAA has.

being charged with "Failure to monitor" is one of the most serious accusations that can be levied against a college athletics program. What was OSU's response? They are going to cut 5 scholarships over 3 years. Whoopdeefuckingdoo. Just like their self-imposed penalties with Tattoogate, it's a fucking joke. They still do not understand just how serious their situation is. This situation is unrelated to tattoogate, which, as a separate incident, would clearly make OSU count as a repeat offender, which will incur stiffer penalties than it would otherwise. As far as NCAA charges go, "Failure to monitor" is the second most serious charge they can issue, only behind "Lack of Institutional control". OSU has so far managed to avoid that one, but given all of the scandals OSU has been through over the past decade, I would not be shocked at all to see the NCAA charge them with that too at some point.

This is potentially a big fucking deal for Ohio State.

 

[Big Sexy]

We're going into Conference Championship weekend and here are my predictions.

SEC- LSU by two touchdowns over Georgia. The Bulldogs are a good team but LSU has been the best team in the country since week one and I don't see that changing.

Big 10- Wisconsin by 10 over MSU. It's hard to beat the same team twice in a season and State doesn't have the home field advantage this time. I see Montee Ball going off like he has all season long and the Badgers getting redemption.

ACC- Va Tech is much better from the first meeting and Clemson seems to get worse every week. The youth has finally caught up to the Tigers and I expect Va Tech to get a one td victory.

Pac 10- This one is easy. Oregon is going to route UCLA. It's too bad USC has their sanctions because I'd love to see that rematch but instead we get a blowout.

And even though it isn't technically a Championship game, OU and OK State are playing for the Big 12 title. I actually think OK State will pull it off this year getting a 3 point victory in what is sure to be a shootout.

 

[TNA cross the line]

Wow i just finished a whole humble pie and it took all night long... Congrats Clemson your are the best team in the ACC "THIS YEAR" but look out cause next year the Hokies WILL! be back in contention with a more experienced team with nearly the entire defense returning next year with about 10 starters depending whether Hosley go's pro or not. Also we still have Logan Thomas and hopefully David Wilson wont go pro either. so i conclude with this enjoy it Clemson while you can and dont go embarrassing the ACC anymore than it already is by losing to WVU.


sincerely... An enraged Hokie fan

 

[Big Sexy]

Well I got 4 out of the 5 games right. With that said, OK State proved last night that they deserve to be in the National Championship game over Alabama. They absolutely dominated their biggest rival and what is a very good team in Oklahoma. Ok State has also won 5 games against current top 25 teams vs just 2 for Alabama. They also have 7 wins over bowl bound teams vs just 3 for Alabama. I know the Tide kept it close against LSU but in the end they still lost. Ok State is just as deserving as Bama and they haven't lost to LSU. LSU/Ok State is the right decision for the championship game.

The SEC is also extremely hypocritical. Back in 2006 Ohio State went undefeated and their last win came over previously undefeated Michigan in a very close game that came down to the last possession. There were many teams calling for a rematch between OSU and Michigan in the National Title game but Florida and all of the SEC brass were adamant that Michigan already had their chance and the one loss Gators deserved a shot. Now that it is the SEC team looking for a rematch they are doing the opposite and saying that Bama deserves a rematch because of how close the previous game was.

 

[nick p]

ESPN's BCS show tonight will probably be the highest rated its ever been​

 

[TSG]

So apparently, 6-6 Ohio State is set to do battle with 6-6 Florida is the Gator Bowl. I see this as wrong on so many levels. It used to be that you had to be 10-2 or 11-1 to make a January bowl, and the Gator Bowl played host to many prestigious teams each year that were of high caliber. It was considered storied and prestigious. 10 years ago, you wouldn't even make a bowl at 6-6, now you can make a storied and historic one. Now it's more about who your former coach and next coach are. I mean, I realize it's all about the money these days, but the Gator Bowl should have a better level of competition then you would see in the Insight, Poinsettia, or Hawai'i Bowl. Just another reason for a playoff in my opinion, the bowl system is becoming a joke.

 

[Shocky]

It is some serious bullshit, but unfortunately it's all about the money. It used to be that the #3 Big Ten bowl (let's call it the Gator Bowl) had to pick the 3rd best Big Ten team. Now the bowl gets the third pick of any Big ten team. It's some serious bullshit.

 

[TNA cross the line]

Seriously a rematch LSU and Alabama. I think this is an absolute shame to have two teams from the same conference let alone dame division play for a BCS national title. THIS SEC BIASED NEEDS TO STOP! Give Ok State a chance to play LSU, Alabama had their chance against LSU AT HOME and still lost let someone else have a crack at them! Or just have a fucking PLAYOFF already!

 

[BooCocky]

I've been a Pitt fan my entire life and I do nothing but praise the University. But right now I am sick. Todd Graham is a piece of shit who deserves all the bashing in the world. ESPN ripped him a new asshole, Pat Forde of Yahoo Sports ripped him a new asshole. Honestly, I see no problem with it. His 3rd wife Penni is a loud mouth bitch. Actually she's worse than Todd himself.

Todd lied to his players, lied to his recruits that visited this past weekend. ASU is a bottom feeder team in the pac 12. Pitt was on the up rise with their move to the ACC. Hopefully Leach and Kelly put up 80 points on him. Hell, hopefully Rich Rod puts up 80 points. Hopefully no recruits believe the used car salesman. Hopefully Graham is fired shortly and goes back to coaching High School ball. I believe in leaving for better opportunities but this isn't one. He resigned after 1 season and after our AD decided he couldn't apply or interview for the job. ASU is not a dream job. Hopefully another dream job comes around next year.

Pitt players, past and present have been very vocal. Devin Street ranted on twitter for hours. Scott McKillop took jabs at him several times. B Lindsey took a shot. Heck, some no named olineman were going at it too. Our recruits are sticking together too apparently. Saddler contacted Shell and apparently Shell is still on board. So are the Davis boys, Voytik and the other local recruits. Shell is going to be very big from here on out. If he goes I'm going to assume other players go elsewhere. Hopefully Pitt moves quickly. I want Chryst or Christobal but I'd be happy with Sal Sunseri or even Teryl Austin.

Pitt is still a good school, has excellent facilities and has a lot to offer. Hopefully we don't hire a car salesman this time around. We can't have a Graham fiasco. It's a shame too, I had faith in Graham and supported the motto in Todd we trust. Well now we need to prepare for the bowl game. Our young players need to play for the seniors...