2008-09 NBA Thread

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Dude, I am from Detroit and completely disagree with you here, the Pistons made the East finals in spite of having Chauncey on the team. What we really need to do is trade him to free up some space to try and sign a big name free agent next year (i.e Bosh, Wade, LeBron) and let Rodney Stuckey take over as the everyday point guard for the team. And to say the Pistons were the best team this year is just ignorant, I am a big Pistons fan but to say anyone but the Celtics were the best team is just ignorant.

For further evidence, look at where Chauncey was everytime Detroit made a comeback..on the bench. He is no longer Mr. Big Shot, when he was he took too many bad shots and they fortunately went in. Billups is not such a huge star like you think, it's time for the new blood to step up.

I'm not ignorant. I actually know what I'm talking about and you saying that the Pistons were winning in spite of Chauncey is showing me that you don't know anything about basketball. Stuckey is a beast, but without Chauncey there is no way we would have been better off. And the reason we made runs without him in the game is because he was only playing at like 80%, if he would have been healthy we would have won it all. Straight up, real talk
 
Detroit's not winning anything dude. Joe Dumars is full of shit, and is showing to be a terrible GM. He can't live on a couple of LUCKY draft picks and trades forever. Now that those guys are wearing down, he still doesn't part ways with them even though after they lost to the Celtics, he said he would make some changes.

Really though when I look at the Pistons, the main problem was the coaching. Saunders style just didn't fit well with that team and it looked like there was a lack of leadership there. For Dumars to then solve that problem by putting one of Saunders assistant’s as a head coach was beyond ******ed, IMO. What the fuck was he thinking? The Pistons since they won the championship in 2004 have always had the players that could win more of them, but the coaching just hasn't been there and Dumars just won’t solve that problem. And now, they're players, aka the one thing you could count on to at least give you a good season, are starting to get old and their value goes down every day. Yet, Dumars still won't make any moves. Dude is just a bad GM and if he keeps this up, Detroit fans will start calling for his head like they do Matt Millen.
 
For me, Joe Dumars showed how idiotic he is by drafting Darko over Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo was pretty much the next surest thing to being a superstar after LeBron, whereas Darko was a giant stiff from Yugoslavia that had bust written all over him, especially where he was only 17 years old, and nobody knew how he'd be able to handle and adjust to life in the United States against top competition.

The Pistons haven't done much of anything to improve their team... that is, unless you actually view Kwame Brown, who's the only person this decade who was a bigger bust than Darko actually contributing at an elite level. It remains to be seen whether or not Michael Curry can do a good job as a rookie coach.

The Celtics still need to get a replacement for James Posey, and that's going to be a tough find. As far as depth goes, Patrick O'Bryant was a very good signing, and JR Giddens and Bill Walker are going to be 2 more draft picks by Danny Ainge that grow at least into productive role players. The Celtics are still going to be fine. They'll find their replacement for Posey, and they have to be the favorites again out of the East. The Big 3 now have one year under their belt playing together, and Rondo, Perkins, and Powe are only going to get better.
 
I wouldn't say Dumars is a shitty GM. If we draft Carmelo there, we don't win an NBA title, simple as that. We don't trade for Rasheed Wallace and get hot at the end of the season. Now I agree something should have been done this off-season but to say he's a horrible GM is just being dumb. So he drafted Darco..that doesn't mean that other major draft picks he's made haven't had a big impact on the teams success (i.e Tayshaun Prince, Jason Maxiell, Rodney Stuckey).

As far as Michael Curry goes, he is the absolute perfect fit as the coach and when he was on the team he was essentially a player coach a few years back. The guy is all about tough D and hard work, a return to the championship mentality for the Pistons, I don't think they'll win it all this year but, probably a 6th straight trip to the Conference Finals and maybe a NBA Finals berth.
 
Joe Dumars is better at tinkering than he is building. He inherited a play-off team and made them better, but as far as rebuilding goes, I don't have much confidence in him. Stuckey was a good pick, and Prince, but as far as bringing in young guys, and his other drafts, he seems lost.

It doesn't matter though. If Ron Artest behaves, the Pistons could bring in LeBron and not win a championship. Houston will at least win a play-off series this year, and I would say four series sounds about right. Yao looked good this morning against the US, and is admittedly only about 70% healthy and out of shape. 32 minutes and 22 points will be good. Scola and Landry off the bench for 25 minutes and 20 points. 17 from Artest, 22 from McGrady, and 12 from Alston (estimated base don field goal percentage and team's average shots per game). Starting with 85 points from your top 7 average, and the defensive intensity that the team is known for is reason for excitement. I'm so excited I abandoned sentence structure.
 
Saying Joe Dumars is a bad GM is like saying Michael Jordan is a horrible basketball player. Joe Dumars is one of, if not the best GM in the NBA and if you ask anybody who knows anything about the NBA who the best Gms in the NBA are, Joe D will be near the top of everyones list. The reason he drafted Darko over Melo was because we already had Tayshaun at small forward and we didn’t draft D Wade because we had Chauncey and Rip. And when Joe D traded Darko to Orlando he got their 2007 first round pick and that pick turned out to be Rodney Stuckey, so if he didn’t draft Darko he wouldn’t have gotten Stuckey. That means Stuckey is the guy you need to start critiquing, and so far he has been pretty damn good. Not everyone is perfect and if he could Joe D would take back the picks of Mateen Cleaves and Rodney White, but he more then made up for those picks by drafting the likes of Tayshaun Prince, Jason Maxiell, Stuckey, and Mehmet Okur. As well as the trades he made to get Rip, Sheed, and Ben Wallace, and the signings of Chauncey and Antonio McDyess

The Pistons don’t need to rebuild, but saying that Joe D is only good at tinkering and not at rebuilding is completely wrong. He is great at both. Although the Pistons did make the playoffs the year before he took over, that was in the shortened 41 game season and during the offseason after that year the Pistons best player, Grant Hill, left Detroit. By the way Hill was going to sign as a free agent in Orlando, but Dumars being the great GM that he is was able to pull off a sign and trade to get Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins which was an amazing trade. So the team that Dumars inherited was far from a playoff caliber team. And that is why they went 32 and 50 his first year as GM. Then in only his second year as GM they went 50 and 32, and in just his 4th year as GM the Pistons won the NBA title. Not only that, but there was not one player on that Championship team that was on the Pistons roster when Dumars took over. In just 4 years he got 13 new players and they were Champions. If that’s not rebuilding I don’t know what is. Before you look up the Pistons roster from when Dumars took over to try and prove me wrong, Lindsey Hunter was on the Pistons the season before Dumars took over, but he was a free agent that offseason and Joe D did not resign him. I guess if you want to still count Lindsey to try and find a hole in my argument then go right ahead, it does not change the fact that Joe Dumars is an amazing GM and he completely rebuilt a bad team and turned them into Champions.
 
The NBA season is now in full swing and nearing the half way point.

In the Eastern Conference Boston dominated in the early going, but they have been struggling the last few games. Cleveland has been very surprising and they have the second best record in the NBA. Atlanta and Orlando are two young teams that have really built on their success from last year. The Pistons got off to a rocky start as they adjusted to the Allen Iverson trade, but as of late they have really gotten things going and they are 13-3 since inserting Rodney Stuckey into the starting lineup and they are currently on a 7 game win streak.

In the West the Lakers have been the best team continuing their great success from last year. San Antonio has been very impressive especially considering the injuries that Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili have had throughout the season. At one point they were playing with three rookies in the starting lineup, yet they still have the second best record in the West. Denver has played very well and the acquisition of Chauncey Billups proved to be a great move. New Orleans has struggled a little but are still off to a good start. Then there are 5 other teams in the West that are within a game and a half of each other.
 
I am Actually taking a punt ehre and saying teh finals will have Magic and Lakers. Why . well how is celtics gonna stop Howard and Lewis along with the improving Nelson. Same with cavs. Lewis can play D on James but who can play on Howard?

The Lakers are the obvious choice because of how they are playing. If bynum stays out of Foul toruble and gets his confidence back they will be unstopable. Kobe bryant clearly playign better than last year and Pau has now got his groove back while Trevor and Odom on the bench are unstopable.

For MVP. i think it is James or KObe againt. KObe is shootign ebtter this season while playing the best D he can but that doesn't show up on his stat card. While James has very high stats you don't see him doing the one percenters like Kobe does.
 
I can say now without a shadow of a doubt that the Lakers are the best western conference team and probably one of the best if not the best team in the NBA. Think about it, all of you guys said that they were not tough enough to beat Boston, what happened, they went out and beat them TWICE. They couldn't beat the Cavaliers? They went out and beat them TWICE. The fact of the matter is that the Lakers have built within their team the one thing that they did not have last year; mental toughness and I believe it will take them far in the postseason and hopefully towards an NBA Title.
 
I can say now without a shadow of a doubt that the Lakers are the best western conference team and probably one of the best if not the best team in the NBA. Think about it, all of you guys said that they were not tough enough to beat Boston, what happened, they went out and beat them TWICE. They couldn't beat the Cavaliers? They went out and beat them TWICE. The fact of the matter is that the Lakers have built within their team the one thing that they did not have last year; mental toughness and I believe it will take them far in the postseason and hopefully towards an NBA Title.

Congratulations, your winning some regular season games, great. But you basically have the same team as last year, doing well, like last year, with Bynum injured, like last year. And the Celts beat you in the Finals. Whats gonna change that this year? You might have Bynum back? We now have Mikki Moore and Stephan Marbury. Once the Celts are healthy again, there will be no stopping us.
 
We now have Mikki Moore and Stephan Marbury.

I've never heard anyone excited about having Mikki Moore on their team. The Celtics are also pretty much the same as last year except with Starbury instead of Posey. It all depends on Bynum. If he is healthy the Lakers are better.
 
Big Sexy the Lakers are not better with Andrew Bynum. Think about it, the Lakers have way more chemistry with Odom instead of Bynum. I think they have more chemistry because they can always expect Odom to do the right thing. They can trust Odom. Where as they might not always believe in Bynum because he is young and isn't old enough and thats what makes Bynum loose his confidence. So when Bynum got his 42 points and 15 rebounds I think they started to believe in him and thats what got the chemistry up. Now he is injured and it would be just safer playing Odom over Bynum anyways. Since Odom has started the Lakers have been 11-3 including the lose to Phoenix today. Which is alright I guess. With Bynum they were like 38-10 which is also good but just having Odom start would make the team better now and in the future. Bynum back in the team could be a bad team or a good team we will just have to see.

Anyways the Lakers can beat the Celtics now with or without Bynum so letting them add Starbuy and Moore is nothing. Starbury hasn't played in like 1 year and a half and ( not including his games he has played) and Moore isn't even that good. Moore was alright with the Kings but thats because they only had Artest. Starbury will not do much ot this team also because I jsut don't see him excelling with a team this great. Sure Starbury can run the plays on O but is he even that good of a defender? Not really think about it. The Celtics lost alot with getting rid of Posey and also loosing Brown and Cassel. The only team to beat Lakers this year in the finals are the Cavs and that is with Mo Williams scoring 25+.
 
Big Sexy the Lakers are not better with Andrew Bynum. Think about it, the Lakers have way more chemistry with Odom instead of Bynum.

How can you say the Lakers are better without Bynum. You say they have more chemistry with Odom, but it's not like Odom doesn't play when Bynum does. Yes they have him come off the bench but he still plays starters minutes. Bynum averages 14 points, 8 boards, and 2 blocks a game. You can't take those numbers away and say a team is better. I agree the Lakers are the best team with or without Bynum, but there is no way you can say that the Lakers are better without one of their best palyers.
 
How can you say the Lakers are better without Bynum. You say they have more chemistry with Odom, but it's not like Odom doesn't play when Bynum does. Yes they have him come off the bench but he still plays starters minutes. Bynum averages 14 points, 8 boards, and 2 blocks a game. You can't take those numbers away and say a team is better. I agree the Lakers are the best team with or without Bynum, but there is no way you can say that the Lakers are better without one of their best palyers.

Yeah so a seven footer his size and playign 30+ minutes a game is only averaging the amount of rebounds. He has got greta build and has size and yet only averages 8 rebounds. Don't get me wrong he is a good defender and the Lakers sometimes need him but when has he really done anything for the Lakers? All the time it's mainly Kobe/Pau/Fisher/Bench players (Ariza and Farmer, Maybe vujacic). People Like Lamar and Bynum have done shit this year. The only good run Bynum has had this year was after his magnificent game. Thats when the Lakers needed him. FOr 3 games the Lakers were better with him. Earlier in the season did it matter if they had him or not? Last year during and before the post season did they ened him? No they didn't. The Lakers are better without him most of the time and now we have Shannon Brown and Adam Morrison along with Josh Powell, I really don't see a difference.
 
The 8 rebounds come from being inexperienced. Last year in the finals they were missing that inside presence, which Bynum brought to the Lakers. Odom is a big man but he isn't really an inside presence. He can run freely and use his athleticism, something Bynum cant do. They needed someone to bump with Garnett, another thing Gasoft and Odom can't do. If anything the Lakers are a better team with Bynum because of his body, and his ability to grow as a scorer, rebounder, and a defender.
 
Last year during and before the post season did they ened him?

Obviously they did because they got crushed in the finals, especially inside.

The Lakers are better without him most of the time and now we have Shannon Brown and Adam Morrison along with Josh Powell, I really don't see a difference.

It is official. You know absolutely zero about basketball. You don't see the difference between Andrew Bynum and Shannon Brown, Adam Morrison, Josh Powell. You don't see the difference between one of the best young centers in the NBA, and three average journeymen players. The Lakers have guys like Gasol and Odom that are also very good rebounders, which is why Bynum averages 8 a game. And it's not like 8 is a bad number. Just because this guy isn't Shaq or Kareem Abdul Jabaar doesn't mean he sucks. The Lakers are a great team without Bynum, but they are a better team with him. There is no evidence that can refute that.
 
Congratulations, your winning some regular season games, great. But you basically have the same team as last year, doing well, like last year, with Bynum injured, like last year. And the Celts beat you in the Finals. Whats gonna change that this year? You might have Bynum back? We now have Mikki Moore and Stephan Marbury. Once the Celts are healthy again, there will be no stopping us.

and congratulations to you for making yourself like like a complete and utter idiot. If you read my post the right way, you would have known that I was referring to the present day. We are the best now! Not 2 months from today...now! We beat the Celtics twice. That is something we did not do last year. As many have said, Marbury has not played in over a year and Mikki Moore is a bench warmer at best with no real threat to anyone. I would like to have Bynum back but the fact that they are playing well (minus the last 2 games) without Bynum shows what a deep team they are. No one can argue that they are not tough anymore. The Celtics have to get past the Cavs my friend and the Cavs are beating the crap out of everyone (except the Lakers of course).

If the Celtics start winning big games without Garnett, then I will agree that they are a deep team but for now I will contend that the Celtics need him more than the Lakers need Bynum.
 
You can talk all the crap you want, but you still have to look out for San Antone, Pops is taking a new approach, knowing he has a top 4 seed locked up. He is resting his players, and they are battling through injuries to an extent.

Pops is a genius and the Spurs are proven winners, so counting them out isn't smart. When the Playoffs hit they'll be good and rested, and Duncan and Parker and Manu should start taking over games. Unless they get matched up with a quicker team. I am not saying the Spurs are going to win, but they seemingly win every other year, so hey, this could be it.

Go San Antone..
 
Meh, I don't know. We should have added a big or another scorer. Like Camby, Sheed or Vince Carter. We didn't and I think that'll come back to fuck us come playoff time. In the WCF we looked old, out of shape and completely overmatched by LAL half the time. This team isn't much different outside of the addition of Mase, luckily he's clutch. But in order for me to be real sold on us being Finals bound, we should have added someone.

Pop's a genius though, you're right and the team chemistry is top notch. So who knows.
 
and congratulations to you for making yourself like like a complete and utter idiot. If you read my post the right way, you would have known that I was referring to the present day. We are the best now! Not 2 months from today...now! We beat the Celtics twice. That is something we did not do last year. As many have said, Marbury has not played in over a year and Mikki Moore is a bench warmer at best with no real threat to anyone. I would like to have Bynum back but the fact that they are playing well (minus the last 2 games) without Bynum shows what a deep team they are. No one can argue that they are not tough anymore. The Celtics have to get past the Cavs my friend and the Cavs are beating the crap out of everyone (except the Lakers of course).

If the Celtics start winning big games without Garnett, then I will agree that they are a deep team but for now I will contend that the Celtics need him more than the Lakers need Bynum

I did read your damn post. And I stated that this is how they were last year, they were the best team in the West. I was stating the similaritites between this years and last years Laker team. And then predicting how it turned out. Mikki Moore is a servicable big man. Marbury is too gifted a player to not make an impact. So he hasnt played in a while. PJ was retired last year and a lot older. It took him a while, but his impact was in the playoffs. If Celts are healthy, we will be in finals. Today was not good, but once Garnett comes back, and the new guys get the swing of things, we will be fine.
 
You can talk all the crap you want, but you still have to look out for San Antone, Pops is taking a new approach, knowing he has a top 4 seed locked up. He is resting his players, and they are battling through injuries to an extent.

Pops is a genius and the Spurs are proven winners, so counting them out isn't smart. When the Playoffs hit they'll be good and rested, and Duncan and Parker and Manu should start taking over games. Unless they get matched up with a quicker team. I am not saying the Spurs are going to win, but they seemingly win every other year, so hey, this could be it.

Go San Antone..


OK I do admit Spurs are a pretty good team in the playoffs. They are very dangerous in the playoffs and just keep coming up with surprises. Anyways Spurs look like they might not make it to the WCF this year. I know I am shocked as well but Tim Duncan is gettign old and has shown it this year not playign to what he was 4-5 years ago. Manu has been injured and just hasn't done much this year as well and Tony Parker had a rough first half eyar but has picked it up now. The only way Spurs can beat the Lakers/Hornets/Rockets is if Manu is healthy and Mason is hitting his shots. Spurs have it on the defensive end but they are very incosistent on the offensive end.
 
The way I see it there are right now four teams that can win the title: San Antonio, Los Angeles, Boston, and Cleveland. Orlando is close but I don't think this is the year (maybe next year).

We have been doing fine with the injuries of Duncan and Ginobili. Tony Parker has been playing great and Mason has been doing the job. I believe we need to acquire one more post player alongside Duncan for depth purposes, but we're doing great for now.

I believe the Lakers can beat the Cavaliers without Bynum but I still don't think they can beat the Celtics. True, they have been playing tougher defensively but they still remember what happened last year. Boston still has the size to beat them but Kobe will remind his teammates every day about the Finals last year. Odom has been playing strong but the question is will he show up when it's time to show up?

Boston aren't as good as they were last year mainly because of injuries and losing Posey. They're still a formidable team and may get the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference but it will be a tough road back to the Finals. Rondo is starting to become one of the premeire point guards in the NBA and when Glen Davis and Leon Powe get more playing time and become better integrated, who knows what this team can do.

Mo Williams was a huge pickup for Cleveland as he can take some off the load off of Lebron James's shoulders. Ben Wallace's injury was a huge loss as he was a body inside. Most likely, they will be the ones to acquire a Joe Smith to fill that spot. If they get the number #2 seed they have a 2nd round matchup with Orlando (assuming the Magic advance) and that will be tough especially if the Magic can shoot the 3 effectively.
 
I did read your damn post. And I stated that this is how they were last year, they were the best team in the West. I was stating the similaritites between this years and last years Laker team. And then predicting how it turned out. Mikki Moore is a servicable big man. Marbury is too gifted a player to not make an impact. So he hasnt played in a while. PJ was retired last year and a lot older. It took him a while, but his impact was in the playoffs. If Celts are healthy, we will be in finals. Today was not good, but once Garnett comes back, and the new guys get the swing of things, we will be fine.

Though they still primarily rely on offense the Lakers have displayed a much better defensive attitude in their contests with the Celtics. They played an all out defensive game (when Bynum was playing) and they played a good defensive game in the game at the Garden and it went into overtime. People questioned their toughness well they answered that question.

Bynum's injury is not as serious as it was last year. It is similar but not as bad. The fact of the matter is that the Lakers are playing well against good teams right now. It gives them a measure on how well they could play against the beasts in the playoffs. The difference between this years Lakers and last years.

Last years Lakers agianst Celtics: 2-6 (including playoffs)
against Cavaliers: 0-2

This years Lakers against Celtics: 2-0
against Cavs: 2-0

half of those games were played without Bynum. They are not the same team.
 
I heard a rumor that Drew Gooden is going to sign with San Antonio after he clears waivers. It doesnt seem like much but he is a good defender and is a Popovich like player. In Sacramento he averaged 13 points a game and nearly 9 rebounds. He should either be a back up or is going to start right away. He should help take pressure off of Duncan, and he will clearly help there defense. I didnt realize he was only 27 so this could be a good pick up and hopefully it'll benefit my Spurs come playoff time. Go San Antone.
 
Drew Gooden was a huge pickup for the Spurs. He now gives Spurs the much needed bench that thye needed and they don't have to rely on Duncan to help at that 4/5 spot. Gooden can score (shown in Bulls) and can play D. The pick up of Swift to Suns helps them alot as well because this will now give them that extra back up they need for the 4 spot. With STAT out they have been missing that 4 spot and with Swift who is athletic and can play alright D this can help them. Cavs picked up Joe Smith who is a veteran and played great in his early career and his still decent for his age now. Every team that had a chacne to make it to the finals has picked up a good player and Lakers stayed with the same team. Will this lead to a finals letdown?
 
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