Wyatt-Taker Volume 2

[OYDK]

Undertaker could kill a baby in the middle of the ring and throw it's tiny little baby parts at everyone in the crowd, and he'd still be over as a face. You cannot make Taker a heel. They tried as best they could with their best face right now, and what happened? The crowd went mild for Brock's entrance and people cheered and then sat in their normal appreciative/stunned silence for Taker.

Numero Uno: They didn't actually try making Taker a heel. The best they could? What, a ball shot is going to get the crowd to turn on Taker? What did he do that was so heel? Also, contrary to popular belief, The Undertaker could not in fact, kill a baby in the middle of the ring, throw it's little baby parts everywhere, and still remain a face... You CAN turn him you know... The only reason people refused to boo Taker upon his return is because they've only seen him so sporadically. Survivor Series will be Taker's 4th match this year. The crowd will accept a heel turn from Taker at this point if it's genuine.

How would Taker taking lead of the Wyatt family develop Bray's character?

Better yet...what is Bray's character? What are his objectives? His goals? You can't talk about Bray's character because Bray doesn't HAVE a character. He's cult leader guy...who...is never really effective...ever..at stuff...because...things...

Numero Doso: Literally just answered your own questions. "What is Bray Wyatt's character?" "He's a cult leader." That's his gimmick. The fact that WWE books him to fail at everything is the REASON people like you think he doesn't have a character. His goals? Objectives? It's to prove to the world that what he says is true. That true good doesn't really exist in the world and everything is a lie. With Cena, he tried to prove that Cena's persona as a good-guy superhero was false. He failed. With Ambrose, he tried to prove that he and Wyatt are one in the same, bad, sick people. He kind of succeeded. With Jericho, he tried to prove that "Y2J Save Us" was all BS. He failed. With Reigns, he's moved on and entered a feud out of revenge. He has a character, but all the failures in his objectives have made simple minds unable to grasp what that is.

What better way to develop the character of a cult leader than to have them brainwash one of the strongest minds in the business. A legend. How the hell does this even need explaining?

You want a guy who got completely psyched out by Undertaker at WM 31 to brainwash him now, when Bray is arguably even worse?

Numero Treso: Psyched out? What are you talking about? When was he psyched out, the one time Taker actually contributed to that feud by setting a chair on fire? Wyatt carried that entire feud, the only time they interacted was at Wrestlemania. Worse is subjective and a matter of preference. This obviously coming from a non-fan of Wyatt.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Numero Uno: They didn't actually try making Taker a heel. The best they could? What, a ball shot is going to get the crowd to turn on Taker? What did he do that was so heel? Also, contrary to popular belief, The Undertaker could not in fact, kill a baby in the middle of the ring, throw it's little baby parts everywhere, and still remain a face... You CAN turn him you know... The only reason people refused to boo Taker upon his return is because they've only seen him so sporadically. Survivor Series will be Taker's 4th match this year. The crowd will accept a heel turn from Taker at this point if it's genuine.

They had him blatantly cheat to win against their most over face at the time using a technique that is universally considered to be out of bounds. Undertaker is widely believed to be on his retirement tour, people are going to enjoy seeing him because they're going to feel like it's the last time they will. Brock in Minnesota was an obvious exception, because they were cheering on their "hometown" boy that they hadn't seen live in forever and a half.

Numero Doso: Literally just answered your own questions. "What is Bray Wyatt's character?" "He's a cult leader." That's his gimmick. The fact that WWE books him to fail at everything is the REASON people like you think he doesn't have a character. His goals? Objectives? It's to prove to the world that what he says is true. That true good doesn't really exist in the world and everything is a lie. With Cena, he tried to prove that Cena's persona as a good-guy superhero was false. He failed. With Ambrose, he tried to prove that he and Wyatt are one in the same, bad, sick people. He kind of succeeded. With Jericho, he tried to prove that "Y2J Save Us" was all BS. He failed. With Reigns, he's moved on and entered a feud out of revenge. He has a character, but all the failures in his objectives have made simple minds unable to grasp what that is.

What better way to develop the character of a cult leader than to have them brainwash one of the strongest minds in the business. A legend. How the hell does this even need explaining?

So he's a cult leader who is horrible at his job? For a while, he was a cult leader who didn't even have a cult. Cult leader isn't a character, it's a sketch of one.

So, how is this guy who fails at everything going to brainwash someone who has accomplished everything (except beating Brock Lesnar, but WWE has established that mercifully will never happen again)? When have we seen Bray's amazing ability to control people with his words really worked? He kinda got Daniel Bryan for like...a month...and then he lost to Usos 100 times and Bryan left. Wyatt doesn't have anything to GIVE Taker, so why would Taker follow? Vince had something to give Taker when he was the higher power (power). Paul Bearer had the urn and magic and blah.

Numero Treso: Psyched out? What are you talking about? When was he psyched out, the one time Taker actually contributed to that feud by setting a chair on fire? Wyatt carried that entire feud, the only time they interacted was at Wrestlemania. Worse is subjective and a matter of preference. This obviously coming from a non-fan of Wyatt.

Nah, it was mostly the time when Wyatt tried to do his scary spiderwalk thingy, and all Undertaker had to do was sit up to turn Bray into a gigantic puddle of goo and fear. Bray came at the king and missed, hard.

By worse, I really meant Bray's positioning not so much his work. Is he better off now than he was before he lost to Taker? Or from his peak (which I guess would be when he beat Bryan at RR? I have a hard time picking one for him)?

I want Bray to succeed, truly. (I want everyone to. Business is better if everyone is good.) I just don't see it. It's a nice idea, but no one has executed it terribly well outside of cell phone lights. The E certainly deserves some (at least half of the) blame in this, but so does the man behind Bray.

 

[OYDK]

They had him blatantly cheat to win against their most over face at the time using a technique that is universally considered to be out of bounds. Undertaker is widely believed to be on his retirement tour, people are going to enjoy seeing him because they're going to feel like it's the last time they will. Brock in Minnesota was an obvious exception, because they were cheering on their "hometown" boy that they hadn't seen live in forever and a half.

The same face who did the exact same thing at HIAC? I really don't think the low-blow was an effort to turn Taker heel. Why would they have tried turning him after the match was over? It was more to get the point across that Taker had to pull out every trick to get the job done against Lesnar.

Like I said before, a Taker turn is not impossible. Taker's portrayed as a face and has been for the past 4-5 years now, probably a lot longer, but they've never gone through with a real attempt to turn him. Low-blowing Brock Lesnar a couple of times is not going to turn the people. Attacking Daniel Bryan during a faux retirement speech? Aligning with The Authority? Bowing down to the Wyatts? All possible options for a Taker turn. And the crowd would boo the shit out of him for "selling out".

So he's a cult leader who is horrible at his job? For a while, he was a cult leader who didn't even have a cult. Cult leader isn't a character, it's a sketch of one.

I'm always making this point. It's not Bray's fault that he always fails. People always hate on WWE Creative EXCEPT when it comes to Wyatt for some reason. Want somebody to blame for Wyatt's losses to Cena, Bryan, Jericho, Reigns, etc. and his failures, don't blame Bray, blame Creative. Wyatt's job is to create a compelling program, what comes after is completely out of his hands.

Also, cult leader is a character. I have no clue what you're talking about in regards to "sketch" of a character. A cult leader is somebody with a messianic complex, who wholly believes in changing the world through their message. Bray Wyatt is the cult leader of the WWE Universe. His main goal is not to recruit a bunch of people, it's to spread his message to the masses. The people who really dislike Wyatt, I've noticed, are the ones who completely misunderstand the character he's trying to portray.

So, how is this guy who fails at everything going to brainwash someone who has accomplished everything (except beating Brock Lesnar, but WWE has established that mercifully will never happen again)? When have we seen Bray's amazing ability to control people with his words really worked? He kinda got Daniel Bryan for like...a month...and then he lost to Usos 100 times and Bryan left. Wyatt doesn't have anything to GIVE Taker, so why would Taker follow? Vince had something to give Taker when he was the higher power (power). Paul Bearer had the urn and magic and blah.

How? Again, many options available. Have you watched pro-wrestling before? The Wyatt's could find the urn, they could "torture" (implied but never said) Taker into obedience, or as we saw Monday, they could "vanquish his soul"... and yeah that last option is actually what they're going with... There are countless of logical and ridiculous options out there that WWE could use. Like I said, this is pro-wrestling.

 

[chicagokmc]

The problem with Wyatt and Taker being on the same side is simple...who would be able to beat them? Lesnar? Been there done that. WWE is implying no more Lesnar/Taker. Reigns? Who could he team with that would beat the full Wyatt family + Wyatt + Taker? (Cena is out, so is Orton)

In my opinion one of the problems with the Wyatt family was that they were TOO physically imposing, as a group, over everyone they faced. Stroman's addition and now the return of Rowan makes it even worse. Taker, Kane and yes probably Big Show plus someone like Ambrose on one side makes for a much better scenario that at least from a storyline standpoint, seems like more evenly matched teams.