WWE and Ratings

[joejoe]

Well another threat was started about the Raw rating but this is about the WWE as a whole.

Look the ratings are not as good as they were during the "Attitude" era and they aren't high across the board on all of their shows. Since the 3.0 came out for RAW it seems a lot more people are starting to predict the downfall of WWE.

Saying how they are losing money and the giving $1million away is a desperate attempt for ratings and how it failed miserably and the WWE is failing.

Guess what? The WWE isn't failing. The WWE is still one of the top watched shows on ALLLL of cable TV in the US. That is pretty impressive when you consider it has been on cable TV for a few decades now.

In addition the WWE doesn't make their money from ratings. They make their money from ticket sales, (Which have been fine), PPV buys (Also fine), Merchandise (From what I've read doing great), and DVD sales. (They are always the number 1 selling sports DVD every week.

Eric Bischoff was on VOW a couple weeks ago and expressed how upset he gets at the internet fans because they love to talk about the ratings but not a single one of them could tell you how they are calculated, and what exactly the difference between a 2.9 and 3.0 is.

The ratings aren't everything. While they do reflect a sample of how many people actually watch your program each week they do not give you a true estimate.

The WWE isn't losing money, in fact they are making money hand over fist if you pay attention to the market.

Ratings are down now because they are in a transition mode. New starts are starting to be built and eventually ratings will go back up. (Kennedy, MVP, Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase Jr,)

The WWE wasn't drawing huge ratings numbers back in the late 80s/early 90s but they were making money. And that was it is about.

Sad as it is the WWE doesn't really care if the fans love the product. As long as they are making money off the product there is no reason for drastic changes.

So all of those who are predicting the WWE's demise...just shut up.

 

[Mr-excitement]

You make some REALLY good points, but when ratings drop revenue does drops. The WWE had trouble making payroll according to Jim Ross during WCW's dominance of the Monday Night Wars.

Consider, everything springboards from TV, if people are not watching the shows, they wont know about the PPVs and if they dont order the PPVs or attend the live shows they lose merchanside dollars, ticket sales and PPV orders.

Trust me at Titan Towers, Vince and company are not sitting back and saying the ratings mean nothing and he and Eric were obsessed with them. Why do you think Eric tried to convince people to change the channel.

Ratings are a KEY revenue driver for the USA network and the WWE. Being number one is good, but a 4.0 allows a station to charge more for advertising than a 2.5.

 

[Papa Shango]

The ratings are very important. USA makes money off of advertising on RAW. The more people who tune in to RAW, the more advertisers will pay to appear on the show. Which means USA will promte RAW more, and it all goes around in a cycle. But in order to get people to tune in and stay tuned in, WWE needs interesting product, which it doesn't. WWE needs to have engaging shows in order to keep the ratings up. The ratings ARE important, that's what the Monday Night Wars were all about. It doesn't matter that RAW is one of the highest rated cable shows, ratings are still down. Desperate Housewives and Lost are two of the highest rated shows on TV, but the ratings are still slumping, and they are trying anything and everything to change that, by trying to introduce new characters and plot devices. WWE should try the same thing.

 

[joejoe]

You make some REALLY good points, but when ratings drop revenue does drops. The WWE had trouble making payroll according to Jim Ross during WCW's dominance of the Monday Night Wars.

Consider, everything springboards from TV, if people are not watching the shows, they wont know about the PPVs and if they dont order the PPVs or attend the live shows they lose merchanside dollars, ticket sales and PPV orders.

Trust me at Titan Towers, Vince and company are not sitting back and saying the ratings mean nothing and he and Eric were obsessed with them. Why do you think Eric tried to convince people to change the channel.

Ratings are a KEY revenue driver for the USA network and the WWE. Being number one is good, but a 4.0 allows a station to charge more for advertising than a 2.5.

You are correct somewhat but the difference is back when WCW was dominating WWE, they were losing money. Now the WWE isn't losing money.

Ratings are lower but they aren't losing money. If you notice WWE does a LOT of promoting for merchandise. They are always coming out with new t shirts and toys for people to buy.

If you ever go to a live event just stand at the merch table for 20 min and listen to how much people are spending. It is INSANE that money goes right into WWE's pocket. And that doesn't even include the stuff they sell off their website.

I'm sure Vince would want the ratings to be higher so he could spout off another acomplishment but in the big picture a 3.0 and 3.5 aren't going to hurt the WWE a ton.

Again a 3.0 doesn't mean that ONLY those people watch the show. Also keep in mind the DVR and Tivo factor.

A LOT of people record and watch the show later on. Some may say that wont effect it a ton but it does. I know for a fact I record Raw and many other people I know do as well.

 

[joejoe]

The ratings are very important. USA makes money off of advertising on RAW. The more people who tune in to RAW, the more advertisers will pay to appear on the show. Which means USA will promte RAW more, and it all goes around in a cycle. But in order to get people to tune in and stay tuned in, WWE needs interesting product, which it doesn't. WWE needs to have engaging shows in order to keep the ratings up. The ratings ARE important, that's what the Monday Night Wars were all about. It doesn't matter that RAW is one of the highest rated cable shows, ratings are still down. Desperate Housewives and Lost are two of the highest rated shows on TV, but the ratings are still slumping, and they are trying anything and everything to change that, by trying to introduce new characters and plot devices. WWE should try the same thing.

The WWE isn't making as much money as it used to but it is still making money.

As long as a company is always turning a profit the company is successful.

We may not love the WWE product as much as we used to but we are still watching the programs as many other people still are.

 

[Mr-excitement]

You are correct somewhat but the difference is back when WCW was dominating WWE, they were losing money. Now the WWE isn't losing money.

Ratings are lower but they aren't losing money. If you notice WWE does a LOT of promoting for merchandise. They are always coming out with new t shirts and toys for people to buy.

If you ever go to a live event just stand at the merch table for 20 min and listen to how much people are spending. It is INSANE that money goes right into WWE's pocket. And that doesn't even include the stuff they sell off their website.

I'm sure Vince would want the ratings to be higher so he could spout off another acomplishment but in the big picture a 3.0 and 3.5 aren't going to hurt the WWE a ton.

Again a 3.0 doesn't mean that ONLY those people watch the show. Also keep in mind the DVR and Tivo factor.

A LOT of people record and watch the show later on. Some may say that wont effect it a ton but it does. I know for a fact I record Raw and many other people I know do as well.

if the Tv ratings continue to drop then attendance and PPV buyrates will follow and it will eventually effect revenue. It is not just show driven either, in a bad economy with gas hovering above 4 bucks and it is almost 5 where I live, many people cut their entertainment budget.

I know people who have already said they can't afford any more PPVs and these people like me only get three to four a year. They definitely wont gas up the car and drive down to a show and buy food and merchandise.

If you think this 3.0 is just a small cyclical dip it is not. The WWE left one network in hopes of reaching more people, it spiked for a bit. The WWE used Mayweather in hopes of mainstream press and attracting new fans. Now they are giving away money - come on the company is getting desparate.

They got the press from Mayweather and huge WM numbers, but the fans did not stick around.

Understand, American idol which gets WAY more viewers than the WWE are concerned over just a small dip in ratings also. They are talking about making major changes and that is the No. 1 on ALL of TV.

This is not cyclical, the WWE has grown stale just like WCW did with its constant shoving of the NWO down the audiences throat. Only now Cena is being shoved down the audiences throat and Triple H.

Old fans are growing up and some simply are not sticking with the product I suspect.

 

[Shocky]

How can the ratings not be important? Why would people track them if they weren't important.

The WWE has a virtual monopoly on Monday Nights at this point. The Networks are all in repeats during the summer time, and their ratings have dropped as well, there are no playoff or big games on Monday Nights. There is simply no excuse for the WWE to be drawing 3.0's at this point of the year, none whatsoever.

As stated, without ratings, USA can't sell advertisements for the higher price they are used to getting. USA is able then to negotiate with the WWE for a cheaper contract when the current deal runs up, and guess what, there won't be a ton of channels trying to negotiate because the WWE is proving itself not to be the draw it once was. The exact reason why the WWE left Spike in the first place was because they felt the ratings dipped because of moving to Spike from USA. They moved back, and two years later, they are averaging pre-Monday Night War numbers again.

This is a big problem for the WWE.

 

[joejoe]

if the Tv ratings continue to drop then attendance and PPV buyrates will follow and it will eventually effect revenue. It is not just show driven either, in a bad economy with gas hovering above 4 bucks and it is almost 5 where I live, many people cut their entertainment budget.

I know people who have already said they can't afford any more PPVs and these people like me only get three to four a year. They definitely wont gas up the car and drive down to a show and buy food and merchandise.

If you think this 3.0 is just a small cyclical dip it is not. The WWE left one network in hopes of reaching more people, it spiked for a bit. The WWE used Mayweather in hopes of mainstream press and attracting new fans. Now they are giving away money - come on the company is getting desparate.

They got the press from Mayweather and huge WM numbers, but the fans did not stick around.

Understand, American idol which gets WAY more viewers than the WWE are concerned over just a small dip in ratings also. They are talking about making major changes and that is the No. 1 on ALL of TV.

This is not cyclical, the WWE has grown stale just like WCW did with its constant shoving of the NWO down the audiences throat. Only now Cena is being shoved down the audiences throat and Triple H.

Old fans are growing up and some simply are not sticking with the product I suspect.

You keep bringing up other shows but wrestling is different than other shows. Pro wrestling has fan loyalty.

All of the people who were around during the attitude era were casual fans. The hardcore wrestling fans are always going to watch the product.

We sit and write on fourms and bitch and moan but bottom line is the hardcore fans keep coming back. We always will. That is what these ratings are reflecting now the actual wrestling fan who will be with them no matter what.

All Vince is trying to do with these outside endevours is bring back the casual fan. It is working for short bursts and they are making money off those short burts.

Again look back at the WWE in the late 80s/early 90s. They weren't drawing huge numbers but they were making money.

I'm not saying ratings don't effect the company but this thread was started to remind people that the WWE is not in a huge economic downfall. They are making lots of money and will be in business for years and years to come.

 

[Mr-excitement]

You keep bringing up other shows but wrestling is different than other shows. Pro wrestling has fan loyalty.

All of the people who were around during the attitude era were casual fans. The hardcore wrestling fans are always going to watch the product.

This is speculation. Actually, an argument can be made that the hardcore fans left when the old school territories died. Every era claims it has the true fans. Not necessarily true. Lots of shows have fan loyalty, people grow up and move on and they keep their money in their pocket in a bad economy.

We sit and write on fourms and bitch and moan but bottom line is the hardcore fans keep coming back. We always will. That is what these ratings are reflecting now the actual wrestling fan who will be with them no matter what.

So the ratings say that Vince really ONLY has a 3.0 audience?? And who is WE?? Fans won't always come back. Trust me when something comes along they like better or is cooler, they move on.

All Vince is trying to do with these outside endevours is bring back the casual fan. It is working for short bursts and they are making money off those short burts.

Not true in every case, he is not making money from the Million Dollar Mania. I dont think Federline or Floyd really made him any money either and in the end neither will cousin Sal. Those moves show desperation.

Again look back at the WWE in the late 80s/early 90s. They weren't drawing huge numbers but they were making money.

I'm not saying ratings don't effect the company but this thread was started to remind people that the WWE is not in a huge economic downfall. They are making lots of money and will be in business for years and years to come.

In your initial post, you said ratings don't matter and actually if memory serves and it does according to the link below, Vince was doing amazing numbers with SNME at that time:

http://www.twnpnews.com/information/sat.html

 

[Saiquan]

You are correct somewhat but the difference is back when WCW was dominating WWE, they were losing money. Now the WWE isn't losing money.

Ratings are lower but they aren't losing money. If you notice WWE does a LOT of promoting for merchandise. They are always coming out with new t shirts and toys for people to buy.

If you ever go to a live event just stand at the merch table for 20 min and listen to how much people are spending. It is INSANE that money goes right into WWE's pocket. And that doesn't even include the stuff they sell off their website.

I'm sure Vince would want the ratings to be higher so he could spout off another acomplishment but in the big picture a 3.0 and 3.5 aren't going to hurt the WWE a ton.

Again a 3.0 doesn't mean that ONLY those people watch the show. Also keep in mind the DVR and Tivo factor.

A LOT of people record and watch the show later on. Some may say that wont effect it a ton but it does. I know for a fact I record Raw and many other people I know do as well.

Im with you 100% I'm 16 and i just got a car. It a 2007 ford edge. I would pay to order pay per views but with the way gas prices are it takes almost $60 dollars to fill up my car. So i don't order as many pay per views as i did when i was 14 and 15 because i just doon't have the money.

I have a DVR so i work from 2:45 pm till 10:45 pm. So i record raw. And watch on sunday when im off. But i tell my little brother to cut my TV on and leave on USA just to try and help ratings. And i know tons of m friends record just as much.

With the way the world is today most shows ratings will go down because you can record it and watch it later. And yes that hurts WWE a ton because then the company begans to look like a failure. So in my point of few if you took away the Tivo and DVR the ratings might reach 3.5 or 4.0 becuase then you will make time to watch.

 

[Sunsetrocket]

These days, when I see WWE programming, it reminds me of WCW in terms of quick fixes and confusing angles that insult the viewers intelligence on a weekly basis. The same can definitely be stated about TNA too. Until the WWE makes several changes to its creative and business models, then this swift decline in ratings and fans will continue to occur.

 

[Mr-excitement]

Im with you 100% I'm 16 and i just got a car. It a 2007 ford edge. I would pay to order pay per views but with the way gas prices are it takes almost $60 dollars to fill up my car. So i don't order as many pay per views as i did when i was 14 and 15 because i just doon't have the money.

The above is more telling. Many people cannot afford to shell out money for some of the product, nor can some afford to attend shows and buy merchandise.

 

[Shocky]

It would be a valid argument, because DVD and TiVo are changing the way everything is as far as television goes but...

Nielsen Media Research announced that it will provide national TV audience estimates that include viewing from Digital Video Recorders (DVRs).

"Nielsen is keeping pace with the evolving ways that people watch television, thereby ensuring that our ratings continue to be accurate and reliable. The introduction of audience estimates for DVR is a major milestone in ratings history and will provide the most detailed information ever on how and when people watch television," says Sara Erichson, general manager of national services, Nielsen Media Research.

They've been including DVR into ratings since 2005, in December. So the same week in 2006 was a 4.0 and a 3.8 last year. Falling nearly a whole point. And since Eric Bischoff instead of acknowledging that there are fans that don't live in the old WCW territory and we are capable of tying our own shoes, a percentage point is

As of August 27, 2007, there are an estimated 112.8 million television households in the United States. A single national ratings point represents one percent of the total number, or 1,128,000 households for the 2006-07 season. Share is the percentage of television sets in use tuned to the program.

.

So it's time to call a spade a spade, the ratings suck because the product sucks, and losing nearly 1/4 of your audience in a year, and losing half of the audience you once had during the last boom period, all of which mind you has happened in a FREAKING MONOPOLY, is a very, very bad sign for the WWE. Hell, giving away a million dollars did jackshit, if not turn off, more of your own core audience.

You can say the WWE is doing fine financially, and I won't argue that, but it has little to nothing to do with the current product. It has more to do with the DVD's and those damn "Smarks", remember those guys that Eric Bischoff insulted (and we all know how well the company he ran ended up under that same mentality) will buy up those DVDs. But guess what, there is only a finite number of DVD's the WWE can release. When you release your big guns all at once like this year, including Stone Cold, Rock, Michaels, Triple H, the Hardyz, a Starrcade DVD, a Hell in the Cell DVD, the WWE is doing all it can to keep that audience happy, but eventually, it will run out of material, and may not have made a new star that people give a damn about in the process.

 

[Instant Classic]

Ask yourself why are people not tuning in to watch. The reason is the lack of decent storylines. HHH is a stale champion, the Cena/HHH feud is nothing new and most people are rightly presuming that the fued is just to get the WWE by until the draft. Plus the storyline behind the fued with Cena is nothing different it's another "I want the belt" feud which though should be the basis of all wwe title feuds can't only be the sole reason for a feud. It gets boring, there needs to be a storyline behind it, and because there isn't one people arent intrested. And while the actual wrestling and matches on the card as a whole is slightly better than this time last year, the feuds/storylines are less intresting , and good matches will only get you so far IMO. WWE really neds this draft to freshen up storylines, I am really hoping for Edge to get drafted to Raw though it seems unlikely atm with the La famila storyline because it would just be something much more intresting.

 

[Mr-excitement]

He will get around to a Jim Crockett promotions DVD at some point and Mid-South if he owns it, but at some point the well will run dry or the DVD audience will dry up.

 

[joejoe]

It would be a valid argument, because DVD and TiVo are changing the way everything is as far as television goes but...



They've been including DVR into ratings since 2005, in December. So the same week in 2006 was a 4.0 and a 3.8 last year. Falling nearly a whole point. And since Eric Bischoff instead of acknowledging that there are fans that don't live in the old WCW territory and we are capable of tying our own shoes, a percentage point is .

So it's time to call a spade a spade, the ratings suck because the product sucks, and losing nearly 1/4 of your audience in a year, and losing half of the audience you once had during the last boom period, all of which mind you has happened in a FREAKING MONOPOLY, is a very, very bad sign for the WWE. Hell, giving away a million dollars did jackshit, if not turn off, more of your own core audience.

You can say the WWE is doing fine financially, and I won't argue that, but it has little to nothing to do with the current product. It has more to do with the DVD's and those damn "Smarks", remember those guys that Eric Bischoff insulted (and we all know how well the company he ran ended up under that same mentality) will buy up those DVDs. But guess what, there is only a finite number of DVD's the WWE can release. When you release your big guns all at once like this year, including Stone Cold, Rock, Michaels, Triple H, the Hardyz, a Starrcade DVD, a Hell in the Cell DVD, the WWE is doing all it can to keep that audience happy, but eventually, it will run out of material, and may not have made a new star that people give a damn about in the process.

The ratings don't suck. The ratings aren't awesome but they don't suck. When you are the highest rated program on all of cable TV you don't suck.

TV ratings are down all over the place. Every year the NBA NHL NFL and MLB playoffs are down because more people are using the internet for their sports information and viewing.

Looking at it now a 3.0 sucks compared to the 6-8s they were getting during the attitude era.

It all comes down to the bottom line. The bottom line is WWE isn't going out of business anytime soon. It's not the begining of the end as many in the IWC have predicted.

As long as the WWE continues to sell out arenas all over the country and have high PPV buy rates they'll be fine.

Once those take a huge dip then the WWE will be in trouble.

 

[Ozzy33090]

There's no doubt the WWE needs to build new stars. I'm not the only one who has noticed that the WWE has been far too reliant on its usual household names.

For starters, Cena held the belt for about a year and squashed everyone in the process. Over on Smackdown, you have/had the Undertaker continually feuding over the title. Sure, everyone says Taker deserves one final run. But is it that necessary? The longer Vince waits to build up new contenders, the more stale the product is going to become.

Look at what's transpired recently. The HHH/Cena feud, while likely just to happen until the draft, is not at all unique. It's very stale, and like others have said, strictly a feud over the championship and nothing more. There's no doubt that the WWE needs to build up stories. But not just simple stories and attacks every week, rather.. complex ones.

Another thing that's bothering me on RAW, is the Burchill/Kennedy feud. Yeah, I'm a big Burchill fan and maybe a bit partial to him, he potentially could be built as a main eventer. And it definitely could be done in the not so distant future. But what happens? Burchill jobs to Kennedy in a clean match. Sure, he gets the cheap attack afterwards, which only means the feud goes on. But still, you have to be careful with guys like him. He's getting over as a heel, why not put him even more over with a win over Kennedy on regular television? Katie interference would've been fine. It's the only decent feud going on, as it has an actual story. Burchill is standing up for Regal and whatnot. Any other feud these days is so bland.

All in all, if McMahon wants to improve his ratings, he totally obliterates Million Dollar Mania. He lets championship feuds be more than about JUST the titles themselves. And that's a solid foundation. It's silly how Vince doesn't realize any of this, that's the sad part.

 

[Jack bruce]

Well the only thing that can get the wwe probably back on the map, is go back to there tactics in 2005 the last golden year of the wwe, put some background to why there fighting get people to talk about your product. I mean unless your a wrestling smark the eddie vs. rey storyline was one of the best storylines of its time. I mean thats the only rivalry my brother is still talking about and hes anti wrestling for life. I mean think about it your about to have your child taken away if you dont win a match for his custody papers trust me now well its not all that good unless you put yourself in there shoes. But if your not a wrestling smark it was entertaining now look at it now,half the time it`s the same old thing its either i beat you in a match or you betrayed me thats it Borrrrrrrrrrinnng especially if your not a wrestling smark all i got to say is this give them some good background reasons as to why there fighting not some maniac beating up a miget thats not believeable and no one going to buy it for people who believe wrestling is real and put in more wrestling *cough raw* and learn how to utilize your midcarders and tag divisions.

 

[Shocky]

The ratings don't suck. The ratings aren't awesome but they don't suck. When you are the highest rated program on all of cable TV you don't suck.

TV ratings are down all over the place. Every year the NBA NHL NFL and MLB playoffs are down because more people are using the internet for their sports information and viewing.

Looking at it now a 3.0 sucks compared to the 6-8s they were getting during the attitude era.

It all comes down to the bottom line. The bottom line is WWE isn't going out of business anytime soon. It's not the begining of the end as many in the IWC have predicted.

As long as the WWE continues to sell out arenas all over the country and have high PPV buy rates they'll be fine.

Once those take a huge dip then the WWE will be in trouble.

Have you read any houseshows reports or taping results, usually the words, the top section or half of the arena was blacked out because they aren't selling out. WWE sells out pay per views, because there is still some sort of feeling that it may actually be good and that it is a big event. Likewise with Wrestlemania, Wrestlemania is something that is pop culture and it's the one weekend when the WWE actually seems to give a damn.

Sports ratings are down, but take a look at recent ratings, they still dominated the WWE in almost everyway shape and form. The whole argument has been lately that, well, don't worry about it, it was a a holiday (Memorial Day) or it was the playoffs (NHL and NBA, plus Monday Night Baseball), but guess what, what happened this Monday? No Holiday, no competition, most of the cable programming is in reruns, and the WWE tanks out with a 3.0.

Defend that number if you want, but that's bad news for a company that lacks an identity at this point. The WWE has a ton of youth, but refuses to do anything with it. Instead they choose to keep guys like Triple H and Shawn Michaels, two unproven draws, at the top of the company. Vince McMahon thinks he is bigger then the company and tries to throw a million dollars at people to try and buy a quick fix, and that turned on him.

Eventually, Shawn Michaels will retire, Vince McMahon will die and Triple H, well who am I kidding, Triple H will be well into his 21st title reign in twenty years while his fans still animately defend him being at the top of the company.

 

[Sunsetrocket]

He will get around to a Jim Crockett promotions DVD at some point and Mid-South if he owns it, but at some point the well will run dry or the DVD audience will dry up.

Well stated. I truly feel the same way. Vince really hasn't hit the surface of his library yet, but he really needs to do a better job educating the fans about these previous organizations because I have a feeling that these DVDs about the AWA and possibly the future releases of JCP and CWF DVDs will mostly interest the older fan that actually remembers them and some fans that would like to know more about them. 24-7 is a great tool for fans to be educated about these past companies, and I don't believe the E does a great job in hyping the 24-7 model. Continuously promoting it through RAW, Smackdown, and ECW via commercials and announcers will do wonders and will get fans interested, which will in turn, might encourage the younger viewers to buy DVDs about some of these defunct companies.