Wrestler Of The Year

[The Dragon Saga]

That same "smarky" attitude can be flip-flopped though, especially on this forum.

Let's be honest, if every NXT show this past year was actually an ROH show, 90% of the fans who praise NXT to high heaven on here would have shitted on those shows if they ever watched them. If Sami Zayn had the exact same work in ROH this last year instead of in NXT, nobody would have bat an eyelash towards him. However, since NXT is under the WWE brand, and since Zayn is technically a "WWE Superstar," people want to say what he's done this past year is amazing, despite like I said, I guarantee if he did it in ROH instead, he would just be a "spot monkey" who only "smarks" like.

I haven't seen anything new from Zayn that I didn't see when he was El Generico, except his actual face and the fact he's gained some weight. But that's it. Why all the praise now? If he deserves 'Wrestler of the Year' this year, then El Generico should have been considered for it years prior. But of course, most of the people praising Zayn now, thought El Generico was nothing but a spot monkey then, who had no chance in hell of making it in WWE, just like Punk had no chance, just like Bryan had no chance, just like KENTA currently now has no chance, etc.

Sami Zayn has had a very good year. I'm very happy for his success, and I'm happy he's winning his silly little detractors over. I don't mind someone saying he deserved a nomination, but to be so sure that he deserves to be called 2014's Wrestler of the Year is ridiculous to me, because I just know most of the people saying that are only saying it because he currently wrestles under the WWE brand.

NXT is indeed awesome. I love it. But the praise it gets from the same people that shit on the indy wrestling is baffling to me. I will never understand that.

Anyways, if AJ Styles had the same matches he had this year on the indies in NXT instead, he'd be winning this by a landslide. But since he had those matches, his presence, his aura, his promos, etc. on the indy scene instead, it doesn't matter to a lot of people. Yet WWE's Development internet show does? Again, it makes absolutely no sense.

Also, I have nothing against the "mainstream" wrestling. I'm pretty certain this is the first year in quite sometime where I voted for a non-WWE wrestler as Wrestler of the Year on this forum, but AJ Styles is most deserving of my vote this year since the two guys who stuck out most in WWE this year, Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar, they were both very limited in action. One because of an injury, the other because of his contract. In no other sport or television program where someone was active on the team or show for less than 30% of the year would they ever win an award for best athlete or best actor of the year for their respective sport/program.

This is the best post in this entire thread.

We might be having two different conversations. If you want to talk about who is the kayfabe most successful wrestler of the year, then you have a good argument for AJ Styles. But The Great Khali had a ton of wins when he debuted too, should that make him a candidate for Best Wrestler?

Here's the BIG difference - Great Khali didn't have MULTIPLE great matches in a single year. Great Khali didn't do that by proving every single smarky internet know it all wrong! Great Khali didn't almost completely reinvent himself to the point where he is a bigger star now than he was ever before. AJ Styles did all of that, and then some.

I said the writing has an influence on the conversation, not because wins and losses matter, but because entertainment value matters. Sami Zayn was one of the, if not THE, most entertaining wrestler this year. And I'm not talking about funny promos or cool flippy tricks. While he is certainly adept at both, he was entertaining because we followed his story. He was given a role to play with a lot of potential and he made it his own. It was an amazing performance year-round. And yeah, he had a lot of losses on his way to the top, but those kayfabe losses shouldn't put him below Styles. If anything, they should put him above him, because Sami showed RANGE. Yeah, his character development is definitely worthy of Best angle, but that's not what I'm talking about here, I'm talking about his performance in said angle. A lot of other guys could have fumbled with it, but Sami excelled. A great script and a great angle can turn to shit if the wrestler doesn't excel at it, and Sami killed it.

You might not know you're doing it, but you're talking all about the angle. I don't think you seem to be able to differentiate between "best wrestler" and "best angle". I've already said it, JMT has already said it, Sami Zayn did nothing special this year. He had a very good year and he had some good matches, but in comparison to AJ Styles his year was tame. I've said it previously in this thread, this award comes down to two people - AJ Styles and Brock Lesnar, because in kayfabe they're the two most accomplished wrestlers this year. Daniel Bryan did something very special and he had a great four months - FOUR MONTHS - AJ Styles and Brock Lesnar respectively had great and dominating twelve months.

I don't think it's pure conjecture to say that AJ would have sucked ass in Sami's role. Maybe if he trained in NXT and improved on promos, facial expressions and ring psychology like Sami has, AJ might have been as good as Sami has been this year. But the current AJ Styles would have been a failure in that role. He has no charisma, his promos suck whether you want to say otherwise, and his matches are telegraphed movements with lots of spots that don't make any sense in the context of the match.

You've not seen AJ Styles at all this last year, have you? His facial expressions, psychology, general pacing is better than Zayn's. AGAIN, I knon the dude who used to be El Generico a lot more than most of you do, I'll state that categorically as a fact, when he signed with WWE I was the one who set-up the thread on here and saw people SHIT ON HIM, because this place always does the exact same thing - top indie wrestler signs for WWE/indie wrestler is shit on by WZF posters, despite seeing little of his work/indie wrestler debuts in WWE/indie wrestler is beloved and people act like they never shit on him - KEVIN STEEN is going to be the biggest example of this because for the last THREE YEARS I have been telling everyone and anyone how good he is. He got shit on. I got shit on. Steen debuts in WWE and everyone loves him.

I get you're all on the Sami Zayn bandwagon and that's fantastic, stay on. But as someone who was on his bandwagon eight years ago and is to this day, I know what he was capable of and I know what sort of year he has had. So once again, his year, compared to AJ Styles, is tame. Tame.

I'm not going to quote the rest of your post but I will sum it up; you're a contradiction. Everything you try to use to tear down Styles, applies to Zayn. Sami Zayn couldn't have done what AJ Styles did this year - because here's the truth - Sami Zayn's not good enough. He was never good enough. He was good, but he wouldn't have lasted two seconds in NJPW and he certainly didn't have "IT" to ever defeat guys like Okada, Suzuki, Tanahashi, Naito, the top guys in Japanese wrestling. AJ Styles did that, and in the process had phenomenal matches and won over an entire country's audience.

I'll say this one last time, because this is where this ends - Sami Zayn wasn't nominated because the only people who want to vote for Sami Zayn are people who are so far up the bandwagon that they're hanging onto the edge. He had a good year. He had some good matches. His match with Cesaro was very good. But compared to AJ Styles, as I've stated before, they're eating his dust. He had this won after the G1 Climax.

He was consistent in a year rife of inconsistent main event talent. Done. Daniel Bryan did more in less though. The whole "change the entire build of the biggest show in a decade" and all.

AJ Styles wasn't just consistent, he flourished. He was the John Cena of pro-wrestling this year. He pulled good matches out of people who have no room to be having good matches. And he had great matches with guys when the expectation was he was going to have great matches. Once again, I'll produce evidence.

[YOUTUBE]Tu-imDgphK4[/YOUTUBE]




And I can continue. Vs. Naito, vs. Roderick Strong, vs. Hanson, vs. Michael Elgin. And more. Bryan was active for four months and in those four months had a great run, but he loses because that run only lasted four months! AJ Styles has been on a 12 month run of what Bryan did.

ROH and NJPW were good. But nothing mindblowing like Dragon Saga likes to say. Wrestlers wrestled. That's about it. They were more consistent this year than others, but why praise a promotion for doing what its supposed to do?

NJPW had an amazing year. Match quality, event quality, the fact that they're coming to America, the stadiums they've ran, 24 shows sold-out from February to May, the only reason that run ended was because they tried to run the Seibu Dome which was too large and in too much of an obscure location. The wrestling is what made the year, you see it as, "wrestlers wrestled", well in that case I'd like someone to explain to me why you should ever talk about WWL or any other lucha or Puerto Rican promotion on these forums again, because all they're doing is putting out, "wrestlers to wrestle".

ROH's year was the best they've had in years. Their growth, their quality, their stories - the best example I can think of is when people say, "ROH is all wrestling, they don't have enough stories", and then they watch Final Battle and understand how ******ed that makes them seem. There was more story in Briscoe/Cole than there was in Neville/Zayn, but like JMT said, people on this forum like yourself and others won't give it the props it deserves because it's ROH. ROH has a name because it was so good years ago that it irritated "mainstream wrestling fans" (what a ******ed term by the way). And yeah, the fans had something to do with that, but I'd prefer to tell people how good ROH is and get ONE person watching it, because the product deserves it then to talk about the same fucking subject that every WWE fan talks about on here. It's why this forum often sucks, yet places like Reddit are constantly growing, because all they want is good wrestling and cool things to happen, and when they happen, they get behind it.

People like TDS and The History come off as the worst and make me NOT watch any ROH or NJPW.

Awwwww. I'm sorry. Would it make you feel better if I non-sensically rambled on about WWE all the time? Would that please you? What about NXT? I guess that way I can fit in.

 

[Nate DaMac]

AGAIN, I knon the dude who used to be El Generico a lot more than most of you do, I'll state that categorically as a fact, when he signed with WWE I was the one who set-up the thread on here and saw people SHIT ON HIM, because this place always does the exact same thing - top indie wrestler signs for WWE/indie wrestler is shit on by WZF posters, despite seeing little of his work/indie wrestler debuts in WWE/indie wrestler is beloved and people act like they never shit on him

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=247305

- KEVIN STEEN is going to be the biggest example of this because for the last THREE YEARS I have been telling everyone and anyone how good he is. He got shit on. I got shit on. Steen debuts in WWE and everyone loves him.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=277645

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=280179

It's all in your head, dude. There were many more positive posts about these guys coming to the WWE than there were negative and most of of the negative came from braveh. The fact that people don't grovel at your feet whenever you laud an indy star the way you do isn't a slight towards them, it's indicative of you and your insufferable personality.

Awwwww. I'm sorry. Would it make you feel better if I non-sensically rambled on about WWE all the time? Would that please you? What about NXT? I guess that way I can fit in.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=247305

Did you read that thread before you linked it?

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=277645

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=280179

Those threads aren't what I was referring to. The second one is close, but not it. I can't find them now but last year I made a thread talking about how good Kevin Steen is and everyone shit on him. I remember I made a comparison between him and Vader and that got shit on. It's not in my head, it's on here. The issue isn't me. It's the forum. It's way things are viewed on here and don't change. Kevin Steen was a success because he's talented. I can tell everyone here that whenever Adam Cole signs for WWE, he'll be the next big thing. I could go on. As I said, last year, everyone shit on Kevin Steen, now you're all on the bandwagon. It's not the first time, it won't be the last. I get it.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Did you read that thread before you linked it?

Yes I did. Very few people, if any, were shitting on him, a few hated that they took his gimmick away, and a few had questions about whether or not he would be successful but thats it.

Those threads aren't what I was referring to. The second one is close, but not it. I can't find them now but last year I made a thread talking about how good Kevin Steen is and everyone shit on him. I remember I made a comparison between him and Vader and that got shit on. It's not in my head, it's on here. The issue isn't me. It's the forum. It's way things are viewed on here and don't change. Kevin Steen was a success because he's talented. I can tell everyone here that whenever Adam Cole signs for WWE, he'll be the next big thing. I could go on. As I said, last year, everyone shit on Kevin Steen, now you're all on the bandwagon. It's not the first time, it won't be the last. I get it.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I get you're all on the Sami Zayn bandwagon and that's fantastic, stay on. But as someone who was on his bandwagon eight years ago and is to this day, I know what he was capable of and I know what sort of year he has had. So once again, his year, compared to AJ Styles, is tame. Tame.

If anyone is on a bandwagon, it's you. Go through your posts. You're making a circular argument where you're conclusion is included in your premise. Basically, AJ Styles is the Best Wrestler of the Year... because he's the best wrestler. You say generic things like he has IT to defeat Okada and Tanahashi. Really? NJPW would take any guy who was big in America and push him at the top of the card. That's just a reality. They've done it hundreds of times, AJ isn't the first one.

I said it in a post below and you didn't address it, but just because AJ Styles is treated like a big deal doesn't mean he is. He's definitely not as good as he says he is and he's not as good as the hype he gets. A lot of his moves are awkward, his ring psychology is no good, and yeah, his promos especially suck. None of his promos this year have been good either. You're confusing what is an increased sense of confidence on the microphone (which is evident in NJPW), with actual talent. Is he better because he stutters less? No, that doesn't mean anything. He can't act worth a dime, and his promos come off as a someone faking his way through a character. His promos range from bland to boring to terrible. How you could sit there and type that he has done entertaining promos is beyond me. Maybe you also enjoyed his Fortune mic-work with Ric Flair, but that's just an anomaly.

I watched more of those videos you posted and some of them were too boring to finish through. AJ Styles comes off as entertaining as a doorknob and he almost always has. WWE recognizes it and that's why he's never been the big deal he wants. AJ Styles isn't worth it. He's all hype. He's basically Jeff Jarrett. Someone who got to be World Champion among a roster of "new guys", and after establishing himself as a veteran, he got to ride that hype until forever. Now he's in Japan where he didn't have to do anything to get a push. He's not even the best wrestler in NJPW, let alone best wrestler of the year.

As for Sami Zayn, I was an avid watcher of ROH at the time Tyler Black was World Champ and El Generico and Kevin Steen were having their amazing feud. I was a big fan of all of them, but somehow, you think I'm less of a fan because I was aware of their limitations. You are completely wrong when you say the El Generico of 2010 could have jumped into NXT and played the part of Sami Zayn the way he's doing now. That's just not true. He was an over-seller who didn't understand ring psychology half as well as he does now, and he was more concerned with putting on entertaining moments than telling an entertaining story. He's far better right now. Same goes for Rollins who's promos are infinitely better and the fluidity between moves is far more realistic.

Both of these guys have improved far beyond anything AJ Styles has ever done. His matches are good, and some of them are great, but they don't hold a candle to the things Seth, Sami, Cesaro and others are doing in WWE.

It's also worth noting that this isn't even AJ's best year. His best year is arguably around 2005 when he was able to have some spectacular matches with much better opponents. But it's not like AJ was ever able to carry anyone on his own. In 2014, you're posting up a match like AJ vs. O'Reilly and saying that's one of his highlights of the year. Really?? That average match is what you consider one of the best of the year? The only way AJ can telegraph his moves more is with a giant teleprompter facing the camera telling him what to do.

You can keep sitting on the AJ hype-train, but once you come back down to Earth, you will notice that you're saying that the best wrestler in the world is someone who is out of his prime and who's prime wasn't that good enough to begin with.

 

[ABMorales787]

NJPW had an amazing year. Match quality, event quality, the fact that they're coming to America, the stadiums they've ran, 24 shows sold-out from February to May, the only reason that run ended was because they tried to run the Seibu Dome which was too large and in too much of an obscure location. The wrestling is what made the year, you see it as, "wrestlers wrestled", well in that case I'd like someone to explain to me why you should ever talk about WWL or any other lucha or Puerto Rican promotion on these forums again, because all they're doing is putting out, "wrestlers to wrestle".

Here's the thing about what I say and what you say. I'm not endlessly babbling and trying to make arguments about why AAA is better than other companies. They've been far better than WWE and I'll say better than ROH (I mean it too) just to spite you. Because I believe it. But if people don't watch it here, how am I supposed to make a solid argument? I'm basing it all on my preference. Unlike you, on the other hand, who has to post the matches in hope that people will watch and change their opinion. They won't. Because they aren't gonna waste their time watching wrestling matches posted at random at some forum for the sake of an argument. That's why I post all my stuff in one thread for anyone who would like to watch.

You remind me of an obsessive Christian trying to convince people to go to church and convert even though they really aren't against it. You're just shooing them instead.

 

[Papa Pillman]

You say generic things like he has IT to defeat Okada and Tanahashi. Really? NJPW would take any guy who was big in America and push him at the top of the card. That's just a reality. They've done it hundreds of times, AJ isn't the first one.

Please give some examples of any Gaijin who made it big in America prior to joining NJPW being pushed by New Japan above the midcard. It just doesn't happen and just like you're opinions on Styles you're clearly full of shit with that statement.

The only Gaijins who have won the IWGP Heavyweight title: Vader(who only had a short and forgettable run as a green newbie in AWA before making his name in Japan); Scott Norton(who got his start in NJPW); Bob Sapp(who made his name in Japan in K-1 and Pride); Brock Lesnar and AJ Styles.

So Lesnar is the only Gaijin that NJPW saw as worthy of being pushed into the main event and holding their top title prior to AJ. Sure shows what New Japan thinks of AJ, but surely they just push any random US talent they can get their hands on. New Japan doesn't know shit and you're obviously far more knowledgeable.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Unlike you, on the other hand, who has to post the matches in hope that people will watch and change their opinion. They won't. Because they aren't gonna waste their time watching wrestling matches posted at random at some forum for the sake of an argument. That's why I post all my stuff in one thread for anyone who would like to watch.

You remind me of an obsessive Christian trying to convince people to go to church and convert even though they really aren't against it. You're just shooing them instead.

Well, I had already watched some of those matches, and watched a few more, and they only confirmed what I was already thinking. AJ's moves are all telegraphed, they don't always make sense with what he's doing, he doesn't take account what offense he's already done when performing other moves, etc. He's not a story-teller. He's a guy who can hit individual moves very well, but struggles in setting up a coherent story unless put across another masterful storyteller. But of course, there's a lot of people who enjoy that type of wrestling. Just move after move and as long as it looks pretty, it's okay, but that's not my cup of tea.

When you said AAA, did you mean their main show or LU?? I've seen LU, but haven't seen anything AAA has put on despite speaking fluent Spanish. If it's really that good, maybe I should check it out.

So Lesnar is the only Gaijin that NJPW saw as worthy of being pushed into the main event and holding their top title prior to AJ. Sure shows what New Japan thinks of AJ, but surely they just push any random US talent they can get their hands on. New Japan doesn't know shit and you're obviously far more knowledgeable.

I didn't say "any random US talent". I said any TOP GUY. Most of the top guys in WWE leave to either retire, to go to another American company, or to take a hiatus and later go back to WWE. If NJPW could get their hands on Chris Jericho or Undertaker they would damn right put the title on them. Props to AJ for being viewed as a top US guy despite not being in WWE, but very few non-WWE guys are viewed that way.

 

[ABMorales787]

When you said AAA, did you mean their main show or LU?? I've seen LU, but haven't seen anything AAA has put on despite speaking fluent Spanish. If it's really that good, maybe I should check it out.

Both. Thought the two are pretty different. I tend to post them regularly in the Bar Room.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

If anyone is on a bandwagon, it's you. Go through your posts. You're making a circular argument where you're conclusion is included in your premise. Basically, AJ Styles is the Best Wrestler of the Year... because he's the best wrestler. You say generic things like he has IT to defeat Okada and Tanahashi. Really? NJPW would take any guy who was big in America and push him at the top of the card. That's just a reality. They've done it hundreds of times, AJ isn't the first one.

Oh, this will be good. Please, provide me a list of five gaijin names who've had a similar impact in Japan in the last 50 years. I'm dying to hear.

I said it in a post below and you didn't address it, but just because AJ Styles is treated like a big deal doesn't mean he is. He's definitely not as good as he says he is and he's not as good as the hype he gets. A lot of his moves are awkward, his ring psychology is no good, and yeah, his promos especially suck. None of his promos this year have been good either. You're confusing what is an increased sense of confidence on the microphone (which is evident in NJPW), with actual talent. Is he better because he stutters less? No, that doesn't mean anything. He can't act worth a dime, and his promos come off as a someone faking his way through a character. His promos range from bland to boring to terrible. How you could sit there and type that he has done entertaining promos is beyond me. Maybe you also enjoyed his Fortune mic-work with Ric Flair, but that's just an anomaly.

I like how you're trying to again tear down my argument by stating issues with it that were very evident in your own. I have produced, facts. You have not produced facts. You continue blabbering on about an angle as though it matters in the context of the question being asked in the title of the thread. It doesn't. So ignoring every irrelevant, stupid thing you've posted above, allow me to once again reiterate something that is obviously not processing in your brain. If this doesn't work, nothing will, and I will just render you potentially mentally inept

AJ Styles is the best professional wrestler of 2014, because he is the most accomplished professional wrestler of 2014. He made the biggest impact in wrestling in 2014. He was the most consistent in-ring performer in 2014, had the best matches in 2014 and was able to debut and win the IWGP Heavyweight Championship, arguably the most prestiged title in wrestling due to it lineage in wrestling, on his debut match for NJPW, against the John Cena of Japanese wrestling. Did Sami Zayn do any of that? No. Then this argument is over. I win.

You're very funny, I'm sure whatever you said in the rest of your comment was lovely, but I highly doubt it has anything to do with the question being asked and will just be you gushing over NXT because it's the new "hip" thing for every wrestling fan to get behind. I get it, enjoy it.

Here's the thing about what I say and what you say. I'm not endlessly babbling and trying to make arguments about why AAA is better than other companies. They've been far better than WWE and I'll say better than ROH (I mean it too) just to spite you.

I don't see where I try to tell anyone ROH is better. I don't. I tell people what happened, I tell them it was good, I advise them to watch. I do it on here and I do it on Reddit where there is a solid group of ROH fans. Here's the difference, this is, always has, and always will be a WWE centric forum. JMT's post was spot on the money, and if you don't think it was, you're full of shit. I like something that's not WWE and I enjoy posting about it. Now here's the best part, read this carefully.

I do not care what anybody else on this forum thinks about whenever I post anything, whether it be about ROH, WWE, Breaking Bad, Muse, Ebola - I don't care. I don't care if you like it, I don't care if you hate it. That's the best part of this being a forum. You don't like it? I don't care. I hope that clears some things up for you.

And while I don't follow AAA, I know others who do and who have said that it hasn't been very good this year, but was getting better toward the end. See you're biased, I'm biased, we're all biased. It's the great thing about opinions.

And considering I've posted links to matches and episodes of ROH and then either gotten messages or rep because people liked it, all I can say is, you're wrong, for one, and two I do enjoy how you think you know this shit when you don't. It's amusing. But lets bring this back to the point of the topic.

AJ Styles is the best wrestler of 2014. If he doesn't win this, it doesn't really matter all too much, he was still the best. Sami Zayn isn't even nominated, because he wasn't even in Styles' league. If people don't vote for Styles, they should vote for Lesnar, because other than Styles, he had the best year. Bryan was around for four months, had a good run, it wound up being meaningless because of his injury. Vote AJ Styles.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

AJ Styles is the best professional wrestler of 2014, because he is the most accomplished professional wrestler of 2014. He made the biggest impact in wrestling in 2014. He was the most consistent in-ring performer in 2014, had the best matches in 2014 and was able to debut and win the IWGP Heavyweight Championship, arguably the most prestiged title in wrestling due to it lineage in wrestling, on his debut match for NJPW, against the John Cena of Japanese wrestling. Did Sami Zayn do any of that? No. Then this argument is over. I win.

It looks like you'll never stop using that circular logic of yours. You're saying he's the best wrestler because:
• He is the best wrestler because he is the most accomplished wrestler (same thing)
• He is the best wrestler because he is the most consistent in-ring performer (same fucking thing)
• He is the best wrestler because he had the best matches in 2014 (WTF??)

I've explained to you in detail what AJ Styles sucks at. What exactly is wrong with his matches, his promos, his presentation, everything, and your answer is pretty much "nuh uh".

How about instead of replying with your 10th rendition of AJ IS THE BEST BECAUSE HE'S THE BEST, then why don't you explain exactly what makes him the most consistent in-ring performer, and what makes those matches so great.

I've gone into detail about why he isn't the best wrestler in the world. Your counter to that is that he is because he is.

 

[ABMorales787]

AJ Styles is the best professional wrestler of 2014, because he is the most accomplished professional wrestler of 2014. He made the biggest impact in wrestling in 2014. He was the most consistent in-ring performer in 2014, had the best matches in 2014 and was able to debut and win the IWGP Heavyweight Championship, arguably the most prestiged title in wrestling due to it lineage in wrestling, on his debut match for NJPW, against the John Cena of Japanese wrestling. Did Sami Zayn do any of that? No. Then this argument is over. I win.

See what I mean? You shoving down your favoritism. You call the IWGP title the most prestigious championship in wrestling. That's kinda funny. Because it's not 50+ years old like the the WWE title. Which is the most well known championship in wrestling. Which Daniel Bryan, John Cena and Brock Lesnar happened to win once in this year too. Much like AJ Styles. He had the best matches of 2014? That's nice. And debatable.

I don't see where I try to tell anyone ROH is better. I don't. I tell people what happened, I tell them it was good, I advise them to watch. I do it on here and I do it on Reddit where there is a solid group of ROH fans. Here's the difference, this is, always has, and always will be a WWE centric forum. JMT's post was spot on the money, and if you don't think it was, you're full of shit. I like something that's not WWE and I enjoy posting about it. Now here's the best part, read this carefully.

You just got through spewing about NJPW having the best year ever, Spongebob. One or the other, you just spend your time praising one or both as gospel.

I do not care what anybody else on this forum thinks about whenever I post anything, whether it be about ROH, WWE, Breaking Bad, Muse, Ebola - I don't care. I don't care if you like it, I don't care if you hate it. That's the best part of this being a forum. You don't like it? I don't care. I hope that clears some things up for you.

And they call me a Killjoy.

And while I don't follow AAA, I know others who do and who have said that it hasn't been very good this year, but was getting better toward the end. See you're biased, I'm biased, we're all biased. It's the great thing about opinions.

I'm not shoving down people's throats why Myzteziz is the best wrestler going today like you do for AJ Styles.

And considering I've posted links to matches and episodes of ROH and then either gotten messages or rep because people liked it, all I can say is, you're wrong, for one, and two I do enjoy how you think you know this shit when you don't. It's amusing. But lets bring this back to the point of the topic.

You got rep for clips. Bravo. How's that proving me wrong? Because it hasn't turned opinions around. Haven't seen a post going "WOW! AJ Styles is Phenomenal! Thank you for clotting my screen with Dailymotion."

No, seriously. Why the fuck are they so big?

AJ Styles is the best wrestler of 2014. If he doesn't win this, it doesn't really matter all too much, he was still the best. Sami Zayn isn't even nominated, because he wasn't even in Styles' league. If people don't vote for Styles, they should vote for Lesnar, because other than Styles, he had the best year. Bryan was around for four months, had a good run, it wound up being meaningless because of his injury. Vote AJ Styles.

If it were El Generico in ROH, I bet you would not shut up about him.

 

[Bernkastel]

Brock won a match that I never thought could be won...

Really, you don't honestly believe that Undertaker would have remained undefeated do you? That the Streak would never end? It was a marketing tool. It was bound to end someday. Kane, Orton, and Henry have all been candidates for that honor in the past. And while Brock ending the Streak was a surprise, it was hardly a match that couldn't have been won.

Why Brock...I answered that above.

Why should Lesnar be wrestler of the year? He's had lackluster matches all year. His match with Big Show was mediocre, and his match with Taker and against Cena were underwhelming. And his lack of presence has done him no favors, with weak booking following Mania.

Cena really went out of his way to carry Lesnar to a good rematch at NOC, and basically the feud in general, along with several other side feuds to fill in for injured talent. Barring non WWE talent, if anyone deserves WOTY it's him, not Brock Lesnar.

 

[Nate DaMac]

We wouldn't be having this stupid conversation if Seth Rollins would have been nominated. Sure, TDS would still be pushing AJ but Rollins would be so far in the lead no one would be responding to him.

You guys dropped the ball.

 

[Dirk]

Really, you don't honestly believe that Undertaker would have remained undefeated do you? That the Streak would never end? It was a marketing tool. It was bound to end someday.

I think it's more the fact that it was Lesnar who was booked to go over, compared to his other recent opponents at Wrestlemania. You could make a case for Punk being even more of a long shot, but he did come off the longest title reign in the modern era.

I can see PG's point that Lesnar (or rather, Lesnar's booking ) shocked the fans, but I agree that his performance in 2014 ranges from "not good" to "somewhat poor", depending on whether or not you attribute Paul Heyman's assists (which we shouldn't, really). That's not wrestler of the year material to me, but it's a matter of preference, I guess.

 

[Dirk]

We wouldn't be having this stupid conversation if Seth Rollins would have been nominated. Sure, TDS would still be pushing AJ but Rollins would be so far in the lead no one would be responding to him.

You guys dropped the ball.

Rollins was mentioned in the nominations thread, though. Then again, so were a lot of guys...

 

[The Dragon Saga]

It looks like you'll never stop using that circular logic of yours. You're saying he's the best wrestler because:
• He is the best wrestler because he is the most accomplished wrestler (same thing)
• He is the best wrestler because he is the most consistent in-ring performer (same fucking thing)
• He is the best wrestler because he had the best matches in 2014 (WTF??)

I've explained to you in detail what AJ Styles sucks at. What exactly is wrong with his matches, his promos, his presentation, everything, and your answer is pretty much "nuh uh".

How about instead of replying with your 10th rendition of AJ IS THE BEST BECAUSE HE'S THE BEST, then why don't you explain exactly what makes him the most consistent in-ring performer, and what makes those matches so great.

I've gone into detail about why he isn't the best wrestler in the world. Your counter to that is that he is because he is.

You have literally not provided one single example of any criticism you have had of AJ Styles. You want me to really run down why Sami Zayn has been nothing special this year, because once again you don't seem to be able to deter the fact that this goes to the best wrestler of the year within the realms of kayfabe, which I adhere to, have given examples. You seem to be a bit special though so I'll try to explain this as simple as possible.

Sami Zayn, has done nothing this year, that he did not do as El Generico. He is El Generico, minus his mask. He always had good facial expressions and mannerisms, because his mask was made so he could convey emotions. His selling if anything has actually worsened since joining WWE. Why? Because he has been told to tone it down, when the way he used to sell gained him more sympathy from crowds (e.g. his flailing around like a fish out of water when he took a back bump). As far as 2014 goes for him, hes had four good matches, and one very good match. I can name four very good matches he had in 2012, I can name five very good matches he had in 2010. He won a title, on his third attempt, and it was the NXT Championship. The NXT Championship doesn't mean much, does it? I mean, really, it is what the OVW Championship was six years ago and that meant very little, didn't it? Or does holding a title that the likes of Big E. and Bo Dallas held mean something all of a sudden.

His win/loss record isn't as strong as say AJ Styles'. His matches aren't as good as AJ Styles'. These aren't "circular arguments", these are facts. You can't disprove them. What do you want me to do, run down how he got a near perfect match that made a Japanese crowd come to their feet against Minoru Suzuki, who is known for being stiff as any MMA fighter around? A great match is a great match, if you haven't seen it, there's little point of me explaining it to you. I've actually seen all of Sami Zayn's matches this year. You don't have to explain anything to me. Your only counterpoint is, "I watched AJ Styles last year and the year before and he's overrated despite what everyone else thinks hurhurhur-SamiZayn-hurhurhur-NXT-hurhurhur". My argument, kicks your arguments ass, but once again, lets just point something out to you.

Sami Zayn's not nominated, AJ Styles is.

See what I mean? You shoving down your favoritism. You call the IWGP title the most prestigious championship in wrestling. That's kinda funny. Because it's not 50+ years old like the the WWE title. Which is the most well known championship in wrestling. Which Daniel Bryan, John Cena and Brock Lesnar happened to win once in this year too. Much like AJ Styles. He had the best matches of 2014? That's nice. And debatable.

Debate it. I want you to seriously debate it. I can guarantee you one thing, El Mesias sure as shit wasn't lighting the world on fire in 2014, was he?

And the WWE Championship's lineage isn't as strong because the title isn't perceived as strong as the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. If you watched NJPW you'd understand that, they build the entire promotion around the title, their champion can't run off for three months and comeback when he wishes It's not favortisim it's more common sense.

I'm not shoving down people's throats why Myzteziz is the best wrestler going today like you do for AJ Styles.

I think you're in the wrong thread. You do get the title is, "Wrestler of the Year"? What do you want me to talk about? The finale to season two of Peaky Blinders? It was quite disappointing, I wish they'd done more with Tom Hardy's character.

You got rep for clips. Bravo. How's that proving me wrong? Because it hasn't turned opinions around. Haven't seen a post going "WOW! AJ Styles is Phenomenal! Thank you for clotting my screen with Dailymotion."

Really? Cause AJ Styles is neck and neck with Brock Lesnar and Daniel Bryan, and I will attest that the reason for that is the arguments presented by myself, JMT and The History. I would also attest to the fact the reason he is doing so well is because throughout the year several of us have kept up to date on what Styles has been doing. Think you need to re-evaluate what you're saying here mate, you seem to be a bit lost.

If it were El Generico in ROH, I bet you would not shut up about him.

Not really. You seem to forget I have accredited that one other person should win this award if not Styles, and it's Brock Lesnar. Everyone knows my fondness for Daniel Bryan, but I'm not an idiot. He doesn't deserve to win because he wasn't as active as Styles or even Lesnar, I believe. He had a great four months, but four months is nothing. I've been quite vocal to the annoyance of people like Sam in the NXT thread about how when everyone thinks what Zayn is doing is great, I've already seen it. It's like Steen/Generico now becoming Zayn/Owens, I'm sure a lot of you will mark out during their feud and think it's the greatest thing ever, and you'll probably plaudit it as such, yet unless they do something truly special I will remember their original feud that most likely can't be topped. I'm biased in my support for ROH because I enjoy it, I do however feel 100% AJ Styles has been the best wrestler in the world in 2014, because I know he has.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I had to go with Daniel Bryan. Even though Bryan's been out for the second half of 2014, there's nothing that's happening or has happened while he's been out that's been remotely close to as interesting as his journey to WrestleMania XXX. From what we've seen in his few appearances, he's also still incredibly over, fans wanna see him back and they're still invested in him.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

See pissants like TDS is why I dislike the boards at times, but I guess they need a place to lurk as well.

You're an idiot man, don't quote me here and reply, quote and reply to someone else.

Anyway, I will agree that its Brock booking that is doing it for me. And it has been pretty sweet. There isn't a thread called Best Booked Wrestler, so yeah.

 

[ABMorales787]

Debate it. I want you to seriously debate it. I can guarantee you one thing, El Mesias sure as shit wasn't lighting the world on fire in 2014, was he?

Never mentioned him. He's been hurt most of the year, but the 3 months he's been active, he's been 2 totally different gimmicks at once in El Mesias and Mil Muertes. So yeah, that's good.

And the WWE Championship's lineage isn't as strong because the title isn't perceived as strong as the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. If you watched NJPW you'd understand that, they build the entire promotion around the title, their champion can't run off for three months and comeback when he wishes It's not favortisim it's more common sense.

See, this is where what you do gets you so much heat. You, in all your self belief, actually think the IWGP title is more valuable than the WWE title. If you can't find what's wrong with that, there's no point in talking to you because you're more stubborn than a fundamentalist Christian.

I think you're in the wrong thread. You do get the title is, "Wrestler of the Year"? What do you want me to talk about? The finale to season two of Peaky Blinders? It was quite disappointing, I wish they'd done more with Tom Hardy's character.

You do it everywhere.

Really? Cause AJ Styles is neck and neck with Brock Lesnar and Daniel Bryan, and I will attest that the reason for that is the arguments presented by myself, JMT and The History. I would also attest to the fact the reason he is doing so well is because throughout the year several of us have kept up to date on what Styles has been doing. Think you need to re-evaluate what you're saying here mate, you seem to be a bit lost.

Am I? Because I also know what AJ has done. The difference between you and JMT is he realizes not everyone thinks the same and will yield to other opinions. Unlike you who has to make insane proclamations about a title in Japan meaning more than the top title of the most successful company in the world.

Not really. You seem to forget I have accredited that one other person should win this award if not Styles, and it's Brock Lesnar. Everyone knows my fondness for Daniel Bryan, but I'm not an idiot. He doesn't deserve to win because he wasn't as active as Styles or even Lesnar, I believe. He had a great four months, but four months is nothing. I've been quite vocal to the annoyance of people like Sam in the NXT thread about how when everyone thinks what Zayn is doing is great, I've already seen it. It's like Steen/Generico now becoming Zayn/Owens, I'm sure a lot of you will mark out during their feud and think it's the greatest thing ever, and you'll probably plaudit it as such, yet unless they do something truly special I will remember their original feud that most likely can't be topped. I'm biased in my support for ROH because I enjoy it, I do however feel 100% AJ Styles has been the best wrestler in the world in 2014, because I know he has.

I already said what I thought about Zayn and Owens. It can be argued what Daniel did in those 4 months was far more than what AJ did in his full year in NJPW. Which is why he's inching away with the poll. But I know you're just gonna retort with AJ being IWGP Champion.

Has anyone mentioned his rash of Styles Clash botches this year? Not his fault, I know.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

See, this is where what you do gets you so much heat. You, in all your self belief, actually think the IWGP title is more valuable than the WWE title. If you can't find what's wrong with that, there's no point in talking to you because you're more stubborn than a fundamentalist Christian.

Explain to me how it's not. I also asked you to debate with me who you think has had as many good matches as AJ Styles has had this year and you have just decided not to retort. Its been in existence 27 years, some of the best pro-wrestlers of all-time have held it in those 27 years, it has been defended in-front of 70,000 people at one point, as much as a WrestleMania. And the big reason, as I mentioned, I think it's either on par or maybe a little bit more prestiged than the WWE title, is the way they treat it.

Often, in WWE, the title comes across as a mere prop. You don't get that from the IWGP Heavyweight title. When you watch a NJPW event you sense how important it is, their guys talk about dying for it. But hey, Brock Lesnar's defended the WWE title once in four months so you know, guess it wins.

I already said what I thought about Zayn and Owens. It can be argued what Daniel did in those 4 months was far more than what AJ did in his full year in NJPW. Which is why he's inching away with the poll. But I know you're just gonna retort with AJ being IWGP Champion.

If you really think that and like throwing around the word "insane", turn to the nearest mirror and say it three times. Look what's staring back at you. You'll have an answer. What Bryan did in four months isn't comparable to what Styles did in 2014.

Has anyone mentioned his rash of Styles Clash botches this year? Not his fault, I know.

Nope, but funny you mention that. I haven't heard the audio yet, haven't had a chance, but Styles spoke to the Observer yesterday for an interview and spoke about the Styles Clash and how three of the four people this year who have taken bad Styles Clashes have apologized after to him and taken responsibility for the botch. Except for one. Lionheart. And AJ knows that the reason hes made such a fuss about it is, he's a nobody, really. Not Styles' words but it's what he meant. He's just a wrestler from the UK who nobody not from England probably ever heard of, and he knew it was a way for him to create some buzz and play the victim, but Yoshi Tatsu came to AJ in Japan and told him to not stop using the Styles Clash because it wasn't his fault, it was Yoshi's.

Not related to who the best wrestler is, but interesting nonetheless. Remix will love to read it I'm sure.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

You have literally not provided one single example of any criticism you have had of AJ Styles.

Really?

He starts off all his matches slowly boring me to tears, he hits his stupid looking moves like the Styles Clash and he can't cut a decent promo to save his life.

And you think, what? That AJ's year was better because he showed up at NJPW, winning the title, competing in about 10 matches, then putting on a lame telegraphed spot-after-spot match with Tanahashi where he drops the title??

I saw his matches with Tanahashi, Kyle O'Reilly, Adam Cole, etc. They're okay. Some of them are even boring.

AJ Styles showed up to NJPW and was given the title in his first match. The match wasn't stellar, the guy gets the title and then that's it.

AJ has never had a good promo. Honestly, he has the charisma of a loaf of bread. That also comes off in his matches. He can pull off some good chain-wrestling, but he doesn't really have the screen presence to tell an amazing story

And like I said above, it also doesn't help that the Styles Clash looks absolutely stupid for both the guy taking it and the guy delivering it.

I definitely need to check out some of the matches on your list, but one that stands out is the title match with Tanahashi which I found particularly boring.It's one of the overrated matches of the year. Starts off very slow and then they telegraph every spot. Of the ones I've seen, I think the Triple Threat is probably the best, but I still don't think it holds a candle to the Fatal 4 Way at NXT Takeover.

Maybe if he trained in NXT and improved on promos, facial expressions and ring psychology like Sami has, AJ might have been as good as Sami has been this year.

He has no charisma, his promos suck whether you want to say otherwise, and his matches are telegraphed movements with lots of spots that don't make any sense in the context of the match. And I can's stress this enough, but some of his moves just look stupid.

AJ Styles reminds me of Gregory Helms. Solid wrestler who can not only put on good matches, but carry awful opponents to good matches as well. But has anyone ever called Gregory the Best in the World? No. He would need a hell of a lot of work to be the Top wrestler in the world, and while AJ is being booked like it, it doesn't mean it's true. Jeff Jarrett booked himself into 12 world title reigns. That doesn't make him the Best wrestler in the world.

I said it in a post above and you didn't address it, but just because AJ Styles is treated like a big deal doesn't mean he is. He's definitely not as good as he says he is and he's not as good as the hype he gets.

A lot of his moves are awkward, his ring psychology is no good, and yeah, his promos especially suck. None of his promos this year have been good either.

You're confusing what is an increased sense of confidence on the microphone (which is evident in NJPW), with actual talent. Is he better because he stutters less? No, that doesn't mean anything. He can't act worth a dime, and his promos come off as a someone faking his way through a character. His promos range from bland to boring to terrible. How you could sit there and type that he has done entertaining promos is beyond me.

I watched more of those videos you posted and some of them were too boring to finish through. AJ Styles comes off as entertaining as a doorknob and he almost always has. WWE recognizes it and that's why he's never been the big deal he wants. AJ Styles isn't worth it. He's all hype. He's basically Jeff Jarrett. Someone who got to be World Champion among a roster of "new guys", and after establishing himself as a veteran, he got to ride that hype until forever. Now he's in Japan where he didn't have to do anything to get a push.

He's not even the best wrestler in NJPW, let alone best wrestler of the year.

In 2014, you're posting up a match like AJ vs. O'Reilly and saying that's one of his highlights of the year. Really?? That average match is what you consider one of the best of the year? The only way AJ can telegraph his moves more is with a giant teleprompter facing the camera telling him what to do.

Well, I had already watched some of those matches, and watched a few more, and they only confirmed what I was already thinking. AJ's moves are all telegraphed, they don't always make sense with what he's doing, he doesn't take account what offense he's already done when performing other moves, etc. He's not a story-teller. He's a guy who can hit individual moves very well, but struggles in setting up a coherent story unless put across another masterful storyteller. But of course, there's a lot of people who enjoy that type of wrestling. Just move after move and as long as it looks pretty, it's okay, but that's not my cup of tea.

If you can read through all 5-or-6 of my posts including all the quotes above and say with a straight face that I "literally haven't provided a SINGLE example of criticism" than you're obviously just being a troll.

As for Sami Zayn, like I also said below, splashing like a magikarp is exactly the type of thing he had to GET RID OF to become as good as he is now. Saying that he doesn't flail like a fish anymore isn't a criticism, it's a good thing. He's learning in NXT how to work matches that make sense, where each spot flows into the next one in a way that makes sense and helps suspend disbelief. His style was more comical, and now he's much more credible as a serious top guy. AJ Styles however sucks at that, and after each spot, he slows down with an implicit period of "And now for my next trick, I'm gonna..." and then he performs his next move. It's insulting to a viewer like me who wants to see a fight that isn't so obviously fake.

AJ Styles is good, but not great. And there are plenty of great wrestlers who deserve to be nominated at the top. Just because he got paid good money to beat a bunch of better and more entertaining wrestlers doesn't make him the best wrestler in the world.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

What makes the "Wrestler Of The Year" the "Wrestler Of The Year"? Titles? Performances? PPV Buy Rates / Ratings? Heat? Booking? Push? The federation? Promos? Complete package?

Basically, it comes down to your own personal preference. I can't be arsed with this whole "My preference is greater than your preference!" BS running this thread at the moment.

I'll simply say I've given my vote to Cesaro for providing quality bouts and receiving great heat despite some extremely ill advised booking AND inconsistent push. While Lesnar, Styles and Zayn have claims to this crown - all have received very strong pushes and booking... would anyone say the same for Cesaro?

On a side note, I agree that both Rollins and Ambrose deserve to be on this list... I also believe that both Lashley (for his TNA WHC run) and Ziggler (still trying to work out the Nickelback level disrespect he regularly gets about here) had strong claims for nomination.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Really?
If you can read through all 5-or-6 of my posts including all the quotes above and say with a straight face that I "literally haven't provided a SINGLE example of criticism" than you're obviously just being a troll.

I think the point is that when your criticisms are asinine as:

AJ Styles is "boring", his matches are "boring", and he shows "no charisma" in the ring, he has "no psychology", his matches are a series of "telegraphed spots", he needs to "improve his facial expressions", AJ versus O'Reilly was "average", he's "not a storyteller", etc. etc. Yada, yada, bullshit, stupidity, etc.

Then no one is going to take your criticisms seriously and they are just gonna gloss right over them. Because literally everything you just quoted yourself saying is individually one of the dumbest things spoken on this board, and all taken as a group show you to be either ignorant, clueless, or both.

Dragon Saga may be unintentionally trolling, but you on the other hand are either intentionally trolling and believe none of the objectively false shit you're spewing about Styles or you're an absolute idiot who has no clue whatsoever what it is he is watching. I hope for your sake it's the former, because if its the latter then please give up on this sport because its way over your head.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

If you can read through all 5-or-6 of my posts including all the quotes above and say with a straight face that I "literally haven't provided a SINGLE example of criticism" than you're obviously just being a troll.

It's all the exact same thing over and over again. You aren't providing examples, you aren't providing anything credible. You're just saying generic keyboard warrior lingo that wrestling fans use to criticize a wrestlers in-ring performance. So, try again. Try harder. Just try.

AJ Styles however sucks at that, and after each spot, he slows down with an implicit period of "And now for my next trick, I'm gonna..." and then he performs his next move. It's insulting to a viewer like me who wants to see a fight that isn't so obviously fake.

You've never actually seen an AJ Styles match, have you? Are you confusing him with The Young Bucks? The Young Bucks are two guys and AJ Styles is one. It's a pretty hard mistake to make mate. Maybe get your eyes checked out.

AJ Styles is good, but not great.

Well 15 people voted for him here and Zayn wasn't even nominated so, I'm going to say he's pretty great.

A And there are plenty of great wrestlers who deserve to be nominated at the top. Just because he got paid good money to beat a bunch of better and more entertaining wrestlers doesn't make him the best wrestler in the world.

Actually it kind of does. I don't think you completely understand wrestling :/

But nevertheless, AJ Styles is the best wrestler in the world because of his talent, because of his pacing, because of his diversity, understanding of what makes a good, compelling wrestling match as well as his presence in the ring and how despite his lack of ability to speak he is able to convey his feelings through his movements in the ring. He has several great matches this year, as I have stated before, none of which have been matched by a match involving Sami Zayn. I'd say the weakest of the best matches Styles has had this year was vs. Adam Cole at All Star Extravaganza VI and even that is on-par with Zayn vs. Cesaro, 2 out of 3 falls. Hes won a much more important title than Zayn, he did it immediately showing how well he was viewed by the bookers, he was the first gaijin to win the title in nine years and the person to do it before him was Brock Lesnar. He went from being hated by the Japanese audience to being loved due to his quality and talent. He drew more people to larger arenas on bigger shows and he is ending 2014 as the face of NJPW's first North American PPV, and has been labeled by Jim Ross, "the biggest mistake I ever made as the head of talent relations".

If this was a boxing match, I'd have had you KO'd in the first second of the first round by whistling in your direction.