Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
And yet for both those things he's MIA. Why should I vote for an obvious transitional champ that will leave once his contract is up at Mania in 5 months?
Wrestler Of The Year
- Thread starter klunderbunker
- Start date
And yet for both those things he's MIA. Why should I vote for an obvious transitional champ that will leave once his contract is up at Mania in 5 months?
NegativeFeedback
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Aaaaaand Sami Zayn was snubbed. :/
Papa Pillman
I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan
The Rollins milk carton here is a travesty.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
He wouldn't deserve to win anyway.
The fact Daniel Bryan, who was only active for four months is winning is pretty stupid.
NegativeFeedback
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Bullshit, Sami Zayn is more deserving than any of the guys there. His 5 classics this year are better than any of these guys' matches, except for Cesaro, who's best matches were of course, with Sami Zayn.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Sami Zayn. Five classics. Only one who comes close is Cesaro.
So much smark I just puked on my laptop.
AJ Styles' year makes both of them eat his shit, metaphorically of course, but I'm sure if they were to meet quite possibly literally.
Pot, kettle
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Explain. I'm waiting with baited breath and an idea you don't know what the term is and will put it down to me preferring a promotion that's not WWE or TNA over the others despite having followed it for 10 years now, and for stating AJ Styles is the wrestler of the year while also making a strong case that not even Sam could not re-buttal. Please, thrill me.
You loathe more wrestling than the average smark on here.
NegativeFeedback
Mid-Card Championship Winner
There's a reason he's been proving you can make money without WWE or TNA in 2014 like you said in a post above. It's because neither WWE nor TNA want the guy at the rate he's asking. He's not worth it. He has delusions of grandeur and your perpetuating it by selling the ridiculous idea that he is a better all-around performer than Daniel Bryan or Sami Zayn.
Of course, AJ has been over-rated for years. He starts off all his matches slowly boring me to tears, he hits his stupid looking moves like the Styles Clash and he can't cut a decent promo to save his life. Sami Zayn had an amazing story that started off last year with him trying to prove his worth against Cesaro, and him feeling like failure time and time again after trying to win the NXT title made him put his career on the line against Neville in the best match of the year. And you think, what? That AJ's year was better because he showed up at NJPW, winning the title, competing in about 10 matches, then putting on a lame telegraphed spot-after-spot match with Tanahashi where he drops the title?? Yeah, right.
I admit I haven't seen ALL of AJ's best work this year. I heard he also had a good match with Curt Hawkins at PWG and haven't checked that out. But I saw his matches with Tanahashi, Kyle O'Reilly, Adam Cole, etc. They're okay. Some of them are even boring. Maybe there's a hidden gem somewhere that I haven't seen, but no matter what, a couple of matches can't come close to the journey and the level of character development that Sami Zayn has had in 2014 that culminated with the best main event of the year.
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
That's creative, that's booking and not talent. Sami Zayn has been quite efficient and one of the best of the years, but the fact that AJ Styles had more matches, and more good matches, should be enough to give him this award. Daniel Bryan had four months this year, yes it was great, but he shouldn't even be considered for an award of the year and the fact that he is, just shows how poor WWE was in 2014.
If we are counting kayfabe, hell of course Brock Lesnar will be considered "Wrestler of The Year" as he broke the streak and squashed John Cena's 2014 version for the World Title. But, this is not PWI and "Wrestler of The Year" should be the guy that has had the better matches of 2014 and AJ Styles is the best worker of 2014. He's been pretty relevant for a guy who left #2 promotion, no?
I'll give you a list of awesome matches, and you'll comeback and talk to me after it, it's even in chronological order so you understand how far AJ's gone:´
- AJ Styles vs. Roderick Strong: It was AJ's return to ROH and it was a brutal match. Not the best of the year, but it was the start and it was on ROH television, which had a lot of AJ's good matches.
- AJ Styles vs. Okada (c) - IWGP Title at Dontaku and also AJ's debut for New Japan. It wasn't fantastic, but it had a lot of meaning (kayfabe speaking, so Brock marks can relax).
Now onto the really good matches:
- ROH/NJPW War of The Worlds - AJ Styles (c) vs. Okada vs. Elgin
- NJPW Return to Yokoama Arena - AJ Styles (c) vs. Okada
- NJPW G1 Climax Day 1 - AJ Styles vs. Okada
- NJPW G1 Climax Day 4 - AJ Styles vs. Naito
- NJPW G1 Climax Day 7 - AJ Styles vs. Suzuki (MOTYC)
- NJPW G1 Climax Finals - AJ Styles vs. Tanahashi
- ROH All Star Extravaganza - AJ Styles vs. Adam Cole
- NJPW King of Pro Wrestling - AJ Styles (c) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
None of the matches above are less than 4 stars. Add to this a lot of his indy work and ROH B-Shows and TV Tapings and the guy was truly "phenomenal". Only his lists of "best matches of 2014" is bigger than Sami Zayn's full 2014 matches. So AJ's year was better, he had a lot more matches and he delivered in all of them, and in some, he over delivered. He clashed with Chris Hero, Kevin Steen, Jay Lethal, Matt Sydal and Kily O'Reilly in good matches.
AJ Styles should be considered the 2014 Wrestler of The Year. He may not have made the most impact as far as accomplishments go, but he sure gave it all inside the squared circle.
Be reasonable. Sami Zayn was tremendous, nobody is taking away that from him, hell, Saga's been a ROH fan since forever, so he would be proud seeing an allumni winning this one, but, just no. More matches with the same or more quality > few matches with quality.
NegativeFeedback
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether this should influence your pick. This is professional wrestling. It ALWAYS comes down to the booking. If someone is booked in short matches with shitty stories, they won't be able to contend for best wrestler. And the ones with the best material will have more opportunities to show off their tremendous skill. This isn't isolated to the wrestling industry. How many actors have won their award because they had the perfect scenes and the perfect director to pull it all off?
This year, Michael Keaton had Birdman, and Christian Bale had Exodus. Keaton will surely be nominated while Bale won't. Does that mean Keaton is a better actor? No, but Exodus had some pretty shit dialogue and the movie was all over the place, there was no possible way that Bale was going to spin that into an Oscar-nominated performance.
Likewise, Sami Zayn definitely had the best story this year. If we consider each character arc it's own film, then Sami Zayn's was undoubtedly 2014's Best Picture. His story captivated the audience, and took us on a journey where he had a chip on his shoulder to prove he can hang with the best in the business and after constant failures, he began to doubt whether he had to change who he is to follow his dream. It was built up perfectly and the climax at R-Evolution was phenomenal. His road to winning the NXT Championship was what wrestling should be about.
In contrast, AJ Styles showed up to NJPW and was given the title in his first match. The match wasn't even stellar, the guy gets the title and then that's it. This just doesn't compare. AJ Styles wasn't as entertaining as Sami Zayn this year, period, and it has a lot to do with the fact that he didn't have the material that Sami Zayn did. But realistically, would he have done better in Zayn's position? I don't think so.
When I'm choosing the best of the year, I have to analyze the total package. AJ has never had a good promo. Honestly, he has the charisma of a loaf of bread. That also comes off in his matches. He can pull off some good chain-wrestling, but he doesn't really have the screen presence to tell an amazing story like the one Sami Zayn did with Adrian Neville. Put AJ in his same spot and I don't think it would have been as good. Sami has done some great promos this year and he's really grown, while AJ has been more of the same that he's always been.
And like I said above, it also doesn't help that the Styles Clash looks absolutely stupid for both the guy taking it and the guy delivering it.
I definitely need to check out some of the matches on your list, but one that stands out is the title match with Tanahashi which I found particularly boring. It's one of the overrated matches of the year. Starts off very slow and then they telegraph every spot. Of the ones I've seen, I think the Triple Threat is probably the best, but I still don't think it holds a candle to the Fatal 4 Way at NXT Takeover.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
TNA doesn't count, because it's shit. I generally enjoy WWE, not recently but that's because aside from NXT its been poor and everyone knows it has. Other than TNA and some obvious promotions (CZW for reasons that don't need stating and CHIKARA because I don't get it) there are very few promotions I don't enjoy. See, you're a TNA mark, but the fact is I am a much bigger fan of TNA then you'll ever be, that's why I feel hard done by, because after years of loyally following them and watching what they gave me with the hope they'd become something, they didn't. Instead they failed at everything they set out to do and produced a majorly horrible product on top of it, producing re-hash after re-hash, poor angle after poor angle, on occasion producing something good but ruining it down the line by over doing it. But just to bring this to a conclusion, you didn't know what the term meant and you were trying to be smart - here's the thing, only smart people can be smart. Add two and two together.
We're not talking about film.
We're talking about professional wrestling. In professional wrestling this year Sami Zayn's "story" was that he choked time and time again. I couldn't give a shit about the outside details of his "road to redemption", in 2014 he barely won the NXT Championship and it took him three times to do it.
What this comes down to is, what the title says - who is straight up the best professional wrestler of the year. You want to vote for best angle? There's a best angle award, go nuts, but in the year 2014, AJ Styles had some of the best matches anywhere and he had a lot better matches than Sami Zayn had. Sami Zayn couldn't wrestle Minoru Suzuki and produce the match Styles got out of him. AJ Styles did. AJ Styles walked into the second top wrestling promotion in the world, won over an entire fanbase in a matter of months and was hailed as the best gaijin NJPW has had in years.
You think him being in WWE or TNA matters? Doesn't matter one single solitary iota of shit. But here's the best part, you're talking about promos and characters and "entertainment" yet you obviously don't know a single thing about what AJ Styles has done this year, do you? When everyone thought the Bullet Club was kind of running out of steam and doing the same shtick over and over again, Styles becomes the leader and rejuvenates it. Not only has he been cutting good promos but he has been playing one of the top heels in NJPW all year and carrying that over to America while keeping it popular. No matter where he goes, whether he be in NJPW or ROH, AJ Styles has been playing AJ Styles, two different promotions, two different countries, same persona under one very busy schedule.
Your opinion is an opinion. You're trying to say that you think he couldn't have done what Zayn did because... you just think it? We're not thinking here, we're trying to decide who was the best wrestler of the past 12 months. Leave your thinking outside the comment box. What matters in the last twelve months is all that matters, and here is what AJ Styles has done as a professional wrestler in the last twelve months...
- Competed simultaneously for two of the top promotions in the world, NJPW and ROH, while also working the independent and international wrestling scene
- In 2014, out of the 84 matches he has recorded, he lost... four. You want to talk about booking?
- IWGP Heavyweight Champion in ONE match. Sami Zayn needed a story to build him to the title because him coming in and winning the title wouldn't have been convincing. AJ Styles however was able to enter NJPW and defeat Kazuchika Okada in one match. That's the equivilant of Okada coming to the US and beating John Cena for the WWE Championship in his first WWE match.
- Leader and key member of one of the most traveled and entertaining stables in all of wrestling, the Bullet Club, a stable he took over from Prince Devitt/Finn Balor and rejuvenated
- Countless match of the year candidates, much, much more than Sami Zayn's. Whether it be vs. Kyle O'Reilly from Ring of Honor Wrestling, vs. Adam Cole from All Star Extravaganza VI, Minoru Suzuki from G1, Okada from G1, Naito from G1 - he was even able to carry Yoshi fucking Tatsu to a decent match and Yoshi Tatsu sucks! And more.
And the biggest one of all - he proved almost every single solitary keyboard warrior who said, "Styles will be back in TNA by the end of the year, he can't be successful outside of TNA if he's not in WWE", and shoved it down their throats. Not only has he been a success and remained relevant but hes also paved the way and opened peoples eyes to the fact, that no longer do you need one of the aforementioned two, so long as you have the talent. His impact on wrestling in 2014 alone wins him this.
I know of Sami Zayn a lot fucking longer and have supported him a lot fucking harder than anybody else who has joined the, "we <3 Sami Zayn" bandwagon. I love hes NXT Champion, I love that he and my undoubted favorite wrestler of the past five years Kevin Steen are in NXT together - but his year is leagues below AJ Styles'. Unlike you, I've watched both, at the same time. Until you've done that, you're going off what you think, and no offense, what you think is worthless in this conversation because I've actually seen both and I know what both have done.
That's a crock of shit.
You are a follower of relatively obscure feds, you spend a lot of time following the likes of Meltzer and wrestling journalists like him and you pop into the TNA support thread twice a week, only to complain how much you hate it. That's called being a smark.
It's hyporcitical to give Negative Feedback for being a smark, when, you're a pretty big one yourself.
By the way, you can call me stupid all you like, it doesn't make you less of an unbearable and self-righteous ass.
Thriller Ant
Beep Bop Boop
So did Matt Taven. Does he get a vote for wrestler of the year?
I missed whatever started an argument about booking, but wins and losses aren't that important in wrestling.
Sami beat two former midcard champions in the same night when he debuted. It's not the same as winning a world title, but it's the closest you'll get in WWE/NXT. Also, AJ Styles was still AJ Styles. A good chunk of the audience knew who Rami Sebei is/was, but Sami Zayn was something brand new that needed to be established.
I give him credit for picking up where Devitt left off, but Bullet Club was already hot and established when he came in. Also, he's not responsible for the excellent stuff the other guys are doing, which they'd still be able to do without AJ.
This is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Since he is an established player and working in companies that give random midcard matches 15 minutes, AJ gets the opportunity to have these great matches every time out. I'm not taking anything away because they are very good (although I've seen quite a few of his matches this year with really bad botches), but he gets the opportunity to go out and put on a 20 minute classic just about every time.
Sami had great matches at every single NXT live special, which, besides the occasional longer match on the TV show that he would steal the show with, were pretty much his only 4 chances to really put out a MOTY candidate. Two of them, Cesaro and Neville, are right at the top of the list, while Breeze and the 4 way could easily been in the conversation as well.
"TNA sux and I know everything better than everyone else."
"I watched everyone before you did and I know everything better than everyone else."
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
AJ Styles, as good as a year he may have had, he will never have Brock's 2014. If you talk about solely ring work, you can put a ton indie boys on this list as well as a good number of NXTs. BUT, which is that one wrestler who has had amazing moments like breaking (a once believed to be) unbreakable streak at the biggest wrestling PPV, and squashing the franchise at the 2nd biggest PPV (its still real to me damnit!)...
What is worse is while people can come and make good cases, WITHOUT looking down on mainstream wrestling, some just can't be taken seriously because they are too high and mighty coz they watched Zayn as Generico.
Then again, what would be WZF be without a few bouts of smarky nausea.
What is worse is while people can come and make good cases, WITHOUT looking down on mainstream wrestling, some just can't be taken seriously because they are too high and mighty coz they watched Zayn as Generico.
Then again, what would be WZF be without a few bouts of smarky nausea.
That same "smarky" attitude can be flip-flopped though, especially on this forum.
Let's be honest, if every NXT show this past year was actually an ROH show, 90% of the fans who praise NXT to high heaven on here would have shitted on those shows if they ever watched them. If Sami Zayn had the exact same work in ROH this last year instead of in NXT, nobody would have bat an eyelash towards him. However, since NXT is under the WWE brand, and since Zayn is technically a "WWE Superstar," people want to say what he's done this past year is amazing, despite like I said, I guarantee if he did it in ROH instead, he would just be a "spot monkey" who only "smarks" like.
I haven't seen anything new from Zayn that I didn't see when he was El Generico, except his actual face and the fact he's gained some weight. But that's it. Why all the praise now? If he deserves 'Wrestler of the Year' this year, then El Generico should have been considered for it years prior. But of course, most of the people praising Zayn now, thought El Generico was nothing but a spot monkey then, who had no chance in hell of making it in WWE, just like Punk had no chance, just like Bryan had no chance, just like KENTA currently now has no chance, etc.
Sami Zayn has had a very good year. I'm very happy for his success, and I'm happy he's winning his silly little detractors over. I don't mind someone saying he deserved a nomination, but to be so sure that he deserves to be called 2014's Wrestler of the Year is ridiculous to me, because I just know most of the people saying that are only saying it because he currently wrestles under the WWE brand.
NXT is indeed awesome. I love it. But the praise it gets from the same people that shit on the indy wrestling is baffling to me. I will never understand that.
Anyways, if AJ Styles had the same matches he had this year on the indies in NXT instead, he'd be winning this by a landslide. But since he had those matches, his presence, his aura, his promos, etc. on the indy scene instead, it doesn't matter to a lot of people. Yet WWE's Development internet show does? Again, it makes absolutely no sense.
Also, I have nothing against the "mainstream" wrestling. I'm pretty certain this is the first year in quite sometime where I voted for a non-WWE wrestler as Wrestler of the Year on this forum, but AJ Styles is most deserving of my vote this year since the two guys who stuck out most in WWE this year, Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar, they were both very limited in action. One because of an injury, the other because of his contract. In no other sport or television program where someone was active on the team or show for less than 30% of the year would they ever win an award for best athlete or best actor of the year for their respective sport/program.
NegativeFeedback
Mid-Card Championship Winner
We might be having two different conversations. If you want to talk about who is the kayfabe most successful wrestler of the year, then you have a good argument for AJ Styles. But The Great Khali had a ton of wins when he debuted too, should that make him a candidate for Best Wrestler?
I said the writing has an influence on the conversation, not because wins and losses matter, but because entertainment value matters. Sami Zayn was one of the, if not THE, most entertaining wrestler this year. And I'm not talking about funny promos or cool flippy tricks. While he is certainly adept at both, he was entertaining because we followed his story. He was given a role to play with a lot of potential and he made it his own. It was an amazing performance year-round. And yeah, he had a lot of losses on his way to the top, but those kayfabe losses shouldn't put him below Styles. If anything, they should put him above him, because Sami showed RANGE. Yeah, his character development is definitely worthy of Best angle, but that's not what I'm talking about here, I'm talking about his performance in said angle. A lot of other guys could have fumbled with it, but Sami excelled. A great script and a great angle can turn to shit if the wrestler doesn't excel at it, and Sami killed it.
I don't think it's pure conjecture to say that AJ would have sucked ass in Sami's role. Maybe if he trained in NXT and improved on promos, facial expressions and ring psychology like Sami has, AJ might have been as good as Sami has been this year. But the current AJ Styles would have been a failure in that role. He has no charisma, his promos suck whether you want to say otherwise, and his matches are telegraphed movements with lots of spots that don't make any sense in the context of the match. And I can's stress this enough, but some of his moves just look stupid.
I followed El Generico in the indies too. And guess what, he had very similar issues as AJ Styles. He would get hit with a sick move, and he'll start splashing like a magikarp. I get that he was a funny guy, but he had to tighten up the story-telling in the ring to really achieve the type of classics he's having in NXT.
I get that you have a hard-on for AJ Styles' style, but it's nothing spectacular despite guys like Dave Meltzer constantly overrating his matches. AJ Styles reminds me of Gregory Helms. Solid wrestler who can not only put on good matches, but carry awful opponents to good matches as well. But has anyone ever called Gregory the Best in the World? No. He would need a hell of a lot of work to be the Top wrestler in the world, and while AJ is being booked like it, it doesn't mean it's true. Jeff Jarrett booked himself into 12 world title reigns. That doesn't make him the Best wrestler in the world.
If the conversation is purely, "who did best in their job of being a professional wrestler by entertaining the fans, gluing them to their TV screens and getting the audience to be emotionally invested in your character", the answer is definitely Sami Zayn.
Wow. AJ had a very consistent year. Was there any need to smear "I <3 ROH/NJPW" and "Fuck TNA" into such a basic argument?
He was consistent in a year rife of inconsistent main event talent. Done. Daniel Bryan did more in less though. The whole "change the entire build of the biggest show in a decade" and all.
He was consistent in a year rife of inconsistent main event talent. Done. Daniel Bryan did more in less though. The whole "change the entire build of the biggest show in a decade" and all.
Obviously.
Lesnar had four matches all year.
Big Show: Terrible.
Undertaker: Highly disappointing would be a generous description.
Cena I: Extended squash.
Cena II: Good match, shit ending.
Few appearances, no promos, little outside the ring. How does that make someone WOTY?
I guess it largely depends on wether you look at this solely from a kayfabe perspective. Even then Styles might have good chances in a match on neutral ground.
MrHashasheen
Enjoying Wrestling
Woah, woah, woah. Back on up. Let's not say such hurtful things, TDS.
Thriller Ant
Beep Bop Boop
I agree with what you are saying here. I've seen so much indy stuff that absolutely blows TNA and WWE out of the water, but gets dismissed because it's from the indies. I'd say that right now, NXT falls in the middle somewhere. Not a ton of people watch it, but since it is affiliated with WWE, it has more credibility to the anti-indy crowd although I totally agree that the people who like NXT but hate on the indies are confusing.
For what it's worth, NXT was easily my favorite promotion this year, followed by Chikara. I didn't see a ton of ROH or PWG, but I enjoyed what I saw. Didn't watch any TNA, and WWE was pretty bad for most of the year. I also have read in multiple places that New Japan was awesome, but I haven't put in the effort to track any of it down.
ROH and NJPW were good. But nothing mindblowing like Dragon Saga likes to say. Wrestlers wrestled. That's about it. They were more consistent this year than others, but why praise a promotion for doing what its supposed to do?
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
Brock won a match that I never thought could be won, and he was booked very strong for the bulk of the year. My gauge here, is when I look back at 2014, what will I remember... I will remember Bryan's amazing 3 months to Mania, Austin/Rock/Hogan in the same ring, Warrior's passing and Brock as the wrestler of the year because of 2 very crucial matches.
I have nothing against the indies and their fans until, they become stupid in their fandom. People like TDS and The History come off as the worst and make me NOT watch any ROH or NJPW. But Devitts jacket, Kenta's running strike, Chris Hero's name and Samoa Joe Vs Punk did.
I wish Styles signs with the E next year, I really do. I have always liked him to an extent and I wish he atleast gets on the big time once before his career is over.
Why Brock...I answered that above.
Hard Hit Prince
Not really working as a
I think you're getting way to personal against me and TDS, while I've not bashed any other company and just stated my opinion. I watch WWE, I watch what I like from the rest of the promotions and that's it. And I've said this - from a booking standpoint, Brock Lesnar should get this no doubt, it's not even a question. But "Wrestler of The Year" should be a lot more than "booking" or "storylines". Imagine that it was The Great Khali that did those two things - will you really give him the title of "Wrestler of The Year"?
It all ends up with different perspectives I guess. Daniel Bryan had an amazing four months, with good matches and a compelling storyline. AJ Styles had a more consistent run for the past twelve months, and I am giving my opinion, because of consistency. Just because some people don't understand what AJ accomplished, it doesn't mean it should be taken away from him, ence why I am really pushing for him to win this award, which means nothing, but it makes my dick look bigger I don't know.
AJ Styles promo work has been severely underrated in here, he's not awful, he's average, but he shows a lot of emotions inside the ring and that's more than we can ask for in such promotions as Ring of Honor and New Japan. He's a great worker, sure the finisher looks bad, but is the finisher really a "subject" for the title of "Wrestler of The Year"? He has a move, it finishes matches, people pop when he goes for it, so it works as it is. Just because the guy didn't wrestle in WWE, doesn't mean he can't wrestle, because he really can and he works a good style (no pun) and this year, wrestling wise, was one of the worst in the WWE (at least for singles stars).
