Why all the hate on the Finger Poke Of Doom?

Mudlup50

Championship Contender
Pardon my confusion here, but I've never seen why there is this huge disgust for the FPoD. The first time I saw someone mention it, I went and watched it and if anything I thought it was hilarious and a great spot for a heel tag team. But people on here hate on it so hardcore and I don't get why exactly.

I get that Nash ended Goldbergs undefeated streak to win the belt(which is stupid for a guy who's already a main eventer but whatever)

I get there was 2 branches of the NWO, 1 Nash's and 1 Hogan's(which kinda makes sense being as most everyone joined the NWO)

I get Hogan was old(but this obviously wasn't an issue as in what 2002 WWE put the undisputed belt on Hogan)


So why all the hate for this segment? Especially over some other WCW failures which in my eyes are a lot worse.

P.S. I wasn't watching around the Attitude Era so you might have to give me some additional context when you explain it
 
It's simple bigotry and nothing more. The same people who hate the finger poke of doom also have no problem when WWE did the exact same spot with Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Oh, and let's not forget money in the bank which is the same thing; one guy pins the champ with no match just to change the title for the sake of it. Yet these guys love MITB. It all has to to with the fact that FPoD happened in WCW. If it had happened in WWE it would be seen as genius as it was the last great serve in wrestling. In an era where the internet was spoiling pro wrestling and giving out secrets and leaks, WCW managed to pull this swerve that NO ONE saw coming. It was great.
 
It's because WCW didn't win the Monday Night War, that's why there's so much hate. I don't know how true the scuttlebutt was, but supposedly the Fingerpoke Of Doom was set up to get Goldberg his redemption after losing to Nash at Starrcade '98. Goldberg was going to take out nWo member after nWo member until only Hogan was left standing. Again, this is what I heard, I can't confirm or deny it because I wasn't a part of WCW's creative team nor was I backstage to really know the story, unlike other members of our IWC ilk that act as if everything they read is fact and they're getting their information first hand.

I digress though, for one reason or another Goldberg didn't do that, I don't know what affected things to have Flair end up being the one to take the strap from Hogan and get storyline presidency. I didn't mind that as much because to be honest Flair was overdue for another heel turn, since he's just better at it, and he was also owed in my opinion a World Title win over Hogan. Since he didn't get one during their 1994 feud.

The way I see it, wrestling has done so many worse things...in WCW's case, you had Arquette and Russo winning the World Title the next year. That surpasses Hogan and Nash's fingerpoke of doom controversy, which to me I thought was HILARIOUS. Sorry if I offend anyone, actually no I am not. If you're an unabashed hater on everything WCW and cite all their negatives instead of their positives while praising WWE as doing no wrong, then I could give two shits about offending fans who have such a close minded perspective. The fingerpoke of doom equals comedy at its best.

And WWF/E has done some pretty asinine shit too, I mean Katie Vick plain and simply put was the WORST idea I ever saw between WWF/E and WCW. I mean seriously Triple H dressed as Kane having simulated sex with a dummy passing itself off as a corpse? I mean seriously, necrophelia? If WCW had done that, we'd never have heard the end of it.

If it was WWE that did the fingerpoke of doom, it would just be one of those moments WWE would laugh at itself over, and us IWC folks who are WCW bashers would overlook it. But because WCW was eventually absorbed by the then-WWF, and the angle didn't go the direction that a lot of fans may have wanted, it gets a lot of unnecessary hate, especially when WWE for years has done some rather quesitonable shit.

Ratings for WCW didn't just go down the toilet like people seem to want to say once the Fingerpoke happened, in fact ratings for episodes like the FPOD segment and onward are a lot better than some of the viewership WWE is pulling in these days.

Oh I could go on, and I look forward to other replies from any WCW bashers, yes I get they were far from perfect, but WWE while I give them credit for the lasting power they have, they've pulled many a disservice to their fans, and with being the only game in town they can afford to do so.
 
I personally think it was great. A big gripe about it, is the fact that it was Nash that ended the streak. The thing is, Goldberg had ran through everyone on the roster already. There wasn't going to be some up and comer rising out of the mid card to beat him, because he decimated anyone who was mid card. At the time the Wolfpack were the biggest faces in WCW and their leader was Nash. Therefore, Nash was essentially the top face other than Goldberg. People complain about how the match was one with Scott Hall using the stun gun. How else do you beat a guy who is booked to be unstoppable and doesn't feel pain? Then it added that element of drama because Hall and Nash were best friends, but Hall was from the rival faction and turning his back on the black and white. It created a lot of drama and speculation for the following Nitro.

The finger poke of doom itself was also great. Think about how it would have gone down if a legit match took place. Okay, let's say Nash goes over or retains. Fans will still be pissed that Goldberg got screwed and it would case heat for Nash. You don't want to have that much heat on one of your top faces like that. Then there would have had to be a rematch. To protect what Goldberg was at the time, it would likely had to have been a dirty finish, which is still bad for Nash, or Goldberg would regain the title. If Goldberg wins it back from Nash, everything is just the same as it was with the exception of Goldberg having that blemish on his record. The NWOs would be feuding with each other still, only with a little bit of tarnish on the face faction. Now let's back up and say that Hogan won the match against Nash. This would essentially put things back to the way things were before Goldberg won the title. Hogan as champ feuding with Goldberg and Nash. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because that worked well for them, but if they were gonna go that route it would look bad on Nash. The guy just did the unthinkable, by beating Goldberg, and then loses the next night? So no we go back to the finger poking. This was a great way to reunite the two NWOs. Nash Hogan and Hall all founded the NWO and were the baddest guys on the roster. It would make sense for these guys to revert back to being these bad guys. It was great for me as an NWO fan because it added strength to my favorite stable and eliminated their biggest rival. It also worked well for Goldberg because the NWOs weren't feuding with each other so they were able to attack him, cuff hime, taze him, paint him, etc without the ther faction running in for the save. This meant Goldberg would look strong because the only reason he was getting beaten and not winning his belt back was because the two factions were doing a number on him.

Another aspect, that I don't think people think about is merchandise. Not just new merchandise for the new colors, but also old merch getting sold as well. In those days fans were pretty loyal to whichever side they chose. Me being an NWO black and white fan, I hated the Wolfpack. When I played Revenge on N64, I used to always beat up Wolfpack members, Goldberg and DDP because they were the biggest foes of my team. You would never catch me wearing the red and black NWO colors. I'm sure some of the die hard Wolfpack fans were like that as well. After the finger poke however, I had all kinds of Wolfpack clothing. I could wear a different NWO shirt to school each day of the week because there was so much variety whereas previously I just had the originial shirt. New action figures were made showing black and white members in red and black as well.

So to recap, the whole situation created drama and speculation, protected Goldberg, protected Nash, gave us a revamped stable and helped merch sales.
 
Wow, "simple bigotry", can we not use such strong words for something as stupid as this, its like when people say "my eyes have been raped" or something similar, those words should not be thrown around lightly.

Besides that, most of the hate comes from people who loved WcW, because it was stupid plain and simple. It was completely different from the spot with DX in that DX was new at the time, HHH and HBK were actually friends at the time, so it made sense. Plus, this wasn't for the WORLD TITLE, it was for the Euro Title. WHYTF would NASH lay down for that, what was the point, the World Title is the pinnacle of your sport, why would you give it away? On top of that he gave it away to the guy he had spent the past year cutting vicious promos on.

To compare it to MITB is also idiotic, because again, no one is laying down and GIVING THE WORLD TITLE AWAY. No one in their right mind would ever give the pinnacle of their sport away, it should be treated like the ring in the LOTR movies, you will die to keep it.

The FPOD caused the nWo to get back together when everyone was already over it. Nash had been cutting scathing promos on Hogan for the better part of a year, people didn't really want to see them get back together. The other part that hurt it was that it came so soon after another move that left a bad taste in the fans mouths, Nash beating Goldberg's streak. People were already pissed about that, then they compound the issue by having the guy that broke the streak lay down for the guy that Goldberg beat to get the title, basically resetting everything. They should've simply kept the belt on Goldberg.

Now I wouldn't say this was the beginning of the end for WcW, I would say it was the third strike, first being Sting not winning clean in dominant form against Hogan and then having a solid run, 2nd being Goldberg losing to Nash, and this being third. All the really bad stuff that came after this to me really didn't matter, by the time the FPOD had happened I had started shifting to WWE. Its not like there are any wrestlers defending the stupidity of this angle, it is almost universally panned for a reason.

But the main point about this, and the part that doesn't compare to anything the WWE has ever done is that someone laid down and gave the WORLD TITLE away, the pinnacle of the sport to reform a faction with someone they had professed to hate because they wanted the title all to themselves. Didn't make a lick of sense, and of course nothing ever came from it. Compare it to Katie Vick all you want, yes that was an AWFUL angle, but it was also a one night thing with no real long lasting effect.
 
Yeah, the comparison to MitB is asinine. There is a match in that case, and there's a logical reason for why the match is so short...but that's not my issue with the Fingerpoke of Dumbassery.

It was for the World Title! The supposed reason that every wrestler ever gets into wrestling...to be the champion! It wasn't the WWF Hardcore Comedy title, and it wasn't for the WWF Light Heavyweight European Only Defended on a Friday Belt.

Why should I as a fan give a shit about any title match ever again if you tell me your belt isn't even worth fighting over? If Kevin Nash can't be bothered to care, why should I?

And as for whether they won the Monday Night Wars is irrelevant. I checked out largely BECAUSE of that (and thankfully missed the David Arquette nonsense. THAT made me laugh because by that point WCW was laughable on the whole.)
 
"The thing is, Goldberg had ran through everyone on the roster already. There wasn't going to be some up and comer rising out of the mid card to beat him, because he decimated anyone who was mid card."

Hogan domnated the scene for the better part of two years, you're telling me Goldberg could only do it for 6 months? At this point he hadn't faced the Macho Man, they brought Sid in the next year, Big Poppa Pump and Booker T rose through the ranks, yes there were plenty of opponents for him to face. The fans wanted to see more Goldberg.

"Think about how it would have gone down if a legit match took place. Okay, let's say Nash goes over or retains. Fans will still be pissed that Goldberg got screwed and it would case heat for Nash. You don't want to have that much heat on one of your top faces like that. Then there would have had to be a rematch. To protect what Goldberg was at the time, it would likely had to have been a dirty finish, which is still bad for Nash, or Goldberg would regain the title. If Goldberg wins it back from Nash, everything is just the same as it was with the exception of Goldberg having that blemish on his record"

Then they should've kept the belt on Goldberg.

"Now let's back up and say that Hogan won the match against Nash. This would essentially put things back to the way things were before Goldberg won the title. Hogan as champ feuding with Goldberg and Nash. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because that worked well for them, but if they were gonna go that route it would look bad on Nash. The guy just did the unthinkable, by beating Goldberg, and then loses the next night?"

So instead they reset to how it was before the nWo split? How about you don't reset at all and let your top face rule the roost?

"It also worked well for Goldberg because the NWOs weren't feuding with each other so they were able to attack him, cuff hime, taze him, paint him, etc without the ther faction running in for the save. This meant Goldberg would look strong because the only reason he was getting beaten and not winning his belt back was because the two factions were doing a number on him."

Goldberg was never the same after this, how was it successful? He never looked strong again(at least as strong as he once did), and it doesn't matter how may people beat him down, Goldberg used to routinely take out the entire nWo, now he's helpless against them? They did the same dumb shit with Sting. In 97 Sting could take on the entire nWo single-handedly, then you fast forward a year and he's getting manhandled by like 3 nWo guys, killed that character the same way it hurt Goldbergs.
 
I'm pretty sure the ratings actually picked back up for WCW after this angle with the reformed nWo.

Then it all fell apart.

The only problem I have with the fingerpoke of doom was that the Nash/Hogan reconciliation didn't seem believable, and sure enough, before the year was out (August) they were already "mortal enemies" again.

They didn't give us any reason to BELIEVE that Nash would want to reform the nWo. The initial moment was a big swerve, but the whole "we've just been playing around for the last year" mentality was really lame.
 
Wow, "simple bigotry", can we not use such strong words for something as stupid as this, its like when people say "my eyes have been raped" or something similar, those words should not be thrown around lightly.

Besides that, most of the hate comes from people who loved WcW, because it was stupid plain and simple. It was completely different from the spot with DX in that DX was new at the time, HHH and HBK were actually friends at the time, so it made sense. Plus, this wasn't for the WORLD TITLE, it was for the Euro Title. WHYTF would NASH lay down for that, what was the point, the World Title is the pinnacle of your sport, why would you give it away? On top of that he gave it away to the guy he had spent the past year cutting vicious promos on.

To compare it to MITB is also idiotic, because again, no one is laying down and GIVING THE WORLD TITLE AWAY. No one in their right mind would ever give the pinnacle of their sport away, it should be treated like the ring in the LOTR movies, you will die to keep it.

The FPOD caused the nWo to get back together when everyone was already over it. Nash had been cutting scathing promos on Hogan for the better part of a year, people didn't really want to see them get back together. The other part that hurt it was that it came so soon after another move that left a bad taste in the fans mouths, Nash beating Goldberg's streak. People were already pissed about that, then they compound the issue by having the guy that broke the streak lay down for the guy that Goldberg beat to get the title, basically resetting everything. They should've simply kept the belt on Goldberg.

Now I wouldn't say this was the beginning of the end for WcW, I would say it was the third strike, first being Sting not winning clean in dominant form against Hogan and then having a solid run, 2nd being Goldberg losing to Nash, and this being third. All the really bad stuff that came after this to me really didn't matter, by the time the FPOD had happened I had started shifting to WWE. Its not like there are any wrestlers defending the stupidity of this angle, it is almost universally panned for a reason.

But the main point about this, and the part that doesn't compare to anything the WWE has ever done is that someone laid down and gave the WORLD TITLE away, the pinnacle of the sport to reform a faction with someone they had professed to hate because they wanted the title all to themselves. Didn't make a lick of sense, and of course nothing ever came from it. Compare it to Katie Vick all you want, yes that was an AWFUL angle, but it was also a one night thing with no real long lasting effect.


First, WWE did something very similar n 1988 when Andre cheated, bribing the ref to quick count Hogan and steal the title only to sell it to Ted DiBiase.

You have to look at where WCW was in early 99/late 98. The NWO roster split was a failure, largely because the infusion of WCW guys made the Red & Black basically not the NWO and the Black & White was almost entirely mid carders and jobbers, with the exception of Scott Hall (who missed a lot of time due to his many drug problems) and Hogan, who worked a semi part time schedule. Add the fact that for most of the fall into Dec 98 and Starrcade you had no Lex Luger or Brett Hart and then Sting was injured. The fact that WCW was still neck & neck with WWE and Starrcade 98 was the success it was is nearly a miracle.

WCW had no strong heel presence at the start of 99. Nash had clearly been a face most of 98, and was booked as a face heading into Starrcade. Even the Title switch was done in a way that made it look like Nash was not responsible for the interference that won him the title. Every successful company needs a strong heel/heel faction, as the constant opposing force to who ever the top heroes are. WWE had McMahon & His Corporation as well as DX during the late 90s, in the 80s WWE had The Bobby Heenan Family (with it’s rotating membership but clearly stated goal of destroying Hulk Hogan) and the NWA had The Horsemen and The Midnight Express. No one wants to pay to see the hero unless he is facing a legit threat from a tough heel. WCW had no main event level heel/faction with the basic destruction of the original NWO and needed one badly.

Nash was a great choice to end the Streak. Who else was left ? Goldberg already beat Big Show, Sting, & DDP, as well as Hogan (although their was money in a re match later). Nash had a similar undefeated streak with his year long run as WWE Champ. Other than Flair and Hart who was left to end The Streak ? CERTAINLY you don’t waste ending Goldberg’s streak on some midcarder or up and comer, NO WAY the audience believes one of those guys beats the un-beatable Monster. You can believe Nash, Flair, Hogan, Hart, Sting ending the streak, no way Goldberg runs though those guys and loses to Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, etc. The storyline for the Starrcade match, which worked a lot of the history of Nash WWE Title reign, was very well done. The Streak was old, WCW needed something new, they were running out of worthy contenders, it was a good time to end it.

The Finger Poke itself was a brilliant move. 1) Totally un-expected, this was a turn no one saw coming 2) Brings back Hogan and makes him relevant again – he was clearly the most hated character in WCW and the one guy wrestling fans in general and WCW fans in particular wanted to see lose 3) Re-Establishes the NWO as a major heel faction, completely unscrupulous, underhanded, lying cheating scoundrels. The “purging” of the non essential members right after was also brilliant, the group very quickly turned into a lean, mean, fighting machine, like they were in their heyday 96-mid 97. It also made them look more heartless and cold, always a good thing for villains. 4) It wasn’t a re-tread of the NWO angle because there was one major difference, the group no longer controlled WCW. For much of 96-98 having NWO leader Eric Bischoff also in charge of the WCW allowed the group un limited protections, changing match decisions, altering booking plans to protect the guys in the ring, he was the ultimate and the original “Bad Boss/Evil CEO” . However, by early 99 EZ E was out of power, noted Hogan nemesis, avowed NWO opponent, and WCW loyalist Ric Flair was in charge of the company. Giving the NWO back the World Title gave some sway but they now had to contend with a WCW boss who no longer protected them, in fact, he was dedicated to destroying them, giving WCW in general and opponents like Goldberg & Sting a powerful ally they didn’t have before. The group was back, the company had a cohesive evil heel faction everyone hated, but they weren’t in power, now they were in chase mode, trying to reclaim the kingdom and protect their only asset (World Title).

The fact the WCW twice topped the 5.0 mark in the ratings despite airing head to head vs RAW in Feb 99 (after the FP of Doom) shows the audience was tuned in and interested in the new dynamic.

WCW should have had Goldberg run through the group, with Flair doing what he could to force the NWO to face him as they tried like cowards to avoid him. I would have drawn out the rematch between GB & Nash one on one until the summer, probably Great AM Bash time, with the idea that if GB beats Nash he gets his title shot vs Hogan, if he loses Bischoff gets back control of WCW. Have GB win but suffer a brutal beatdown that leaves him MIA until October (in time for Halloween Havoc, one of the biggest shows every year WCW did). Have GB win the title at HH.

Certainly it seemed like WCW was moving in a related direction but they tanked everything with three huge audience killing moves post FP of Doom…..1) Having Flair job AGAIN to Hogan – They set up a huge match at SuperBrawl and WCW fans were dying for Flair to win – I get that these two were big money and the SB PPV did very well in 99, but fans weren’t interested in seeing Flair screwed over again, remember WCW fans disliked Hogan because he was from the “other company” and Flair was “our guy”. Flair was extremely over at this point, and WCW still had no Hart, Luger, or Sting back yet, but having Hogan screw him over AGAIN with the major set up they did for this match didn’t please the audience 2) The Double Turn – Fans were interested in the re formed NWO, they were invested in Flair and hated Hogan, the infamous Double Turn may have been one of the worst decisions WCW made during this time. The crowd at the PPV hated it, it was maybe the most dead crowd Ive ever seen for PPV main event, the biggest pop of the night coming when Flair won the title (despite cheating). This also weakened the whole NWO dynamic, after investing so much time re-inventing them WCW basically tanked them for no reason when they were hot and drawing money 3) Hogan left right after the Double Turn – All that effort to bring him back and re form the NWO as a mega heel power group and not only does Hogan turn face inexplicably mid story but then he leaves for several months right after. What’s the purpose of the Double Turn if Hogan is leaving ? If WCW wanted to give Flair the title it would have made more sense for him to beat Hogan clean, then slowly turn heel to protect his belt, becoming a tweener, with Goldberg on the clear face side and the remnants of the NWO on the clear heel side. Have the NWO turn on Hogan and dump him because he lost, have Goldberg still run through the NWO, have him beat Flair for the belt, and have Hogan come back, feud with the NWO, then set up a face Hogan-Face GB match for the belt. Either that or have GB beat Hogan clean since he is leaving, have the NWO turn on him so he can return a face later in the year, have GB battle the Nash lead group through the summer with some tension between him & Flair over title shots. Doing the Double Turn that no one wanted, then disbanding the NWO so soon after working so hard to re establish them, then having Hogan leave right after…..that made no sense.

Ive always said the FP of Doom was brilliant, it set up WCW for some great potential storyline (at a time when Sting, Hart, & Luger were MIA, potential only improves when they start returning and getting involved), but WCW so clearly fumbled it all away it’s almost amazing. The audience didnt buy it either, there was a huge drop in ratings post Double Turn and they never recovered, declining slightly through out the year before bottoming out at year’s end when Russo came in.
 
I remember watching it and thinking, "well that was disappointing and really made no sense."

It was too big off a swerve at the wrong time. People were pissed about Goldberg. Nash reuniting with Hogan had no basis. Someone like Nash seemed to be doing better as his own man.

But mostly imagine if you are promised a huge main event and get nothing in return for no good reason other than to make you feel stupid. Watching it now as part of a monthly package, knowing it is going to happen, with the ability to fast forward and jump to next week's show in less than a minute is a lot different than sitting there for two hours, get screwed, and have to wait a week for the story to continue. It gives you too much time to feel like an asshole and get more angry.
 
The comparisons to Triple H vs. HBK and Nash vs. Hogan are ridiculous.

Heel Sgt. Slaughter was trying to break DX up by making those two face each other. Since HBK lied down, DX stayed together and made Slaughter look like a fool. It made perfect sense at the time, unlike Hogan poking Nash. It was a classic antic that was sticking it to the man, and it wasn't even for the biggest belt in the company. The FPOD was just a bad swerve featuring two individuals who were in the midst of a heated rivalry, unlike HHH and Shawn.

That on top of how many times WCW went with the "I'll lie down for you" shtick really made the FPOD look even worse by today's standards. Yeah, we didn't forget that WCW made that a continuous thing, right?
 
A thread about the FPOD...awesome! Haven't posted in months....

I agree 100 percent with the OP. Why all the hate for one of the biggest swerves in all of wrestling history? Most of the posters here are 'spot on' with their responses. It happened in WCW. Not WWE. I remember when I was a hardcore WWE fan in 1996 and I first heard about Hogan turning heel and forming the NWO. I hated it (and so did most wrestling viewers) because A it threatened my team. B Most of us barely knew a thing about WCW. But our 'brand' WWE really sucked balls at the time. Still, out of loyalty, I wouldn't pay any attention to WCW until about Halloween Havoc of 96. I tuned into the Nitro before the PPV and was hooked shortly after. WCW was like the WWF of the past 10 years and WWF was like TNA of the past 10 years. It was 1995 when things started getting really bad. Jeff Jarrett was a star, Sid, Duke Drose and Issac Yankem were all getting big pushes. 96 WWF wasn't much better. It was easy to jump ship. I realized my loyalty was to the guys I grew up watching and they were all in WCW. Plus, the product was way better.

Now that is all relevant because there were thousands of fans just like me but who didn't switch loyalties. They stuck with WWE through thick or thin. When WCW started winning the TV ratings, no fan on the planet knew or cared less. TV ratings only started mattering when it became clear WCW Nitro was the most watched show on television on Monday nights. Internet writers would literally break down in detail every 15 minute segment of each 3 hour RAW, Nitro, Thunder or Smackdown. To see where the company had gone 'wrong' or 'right'. The wars for ratings and supremacy lead to all sorts of crazy things like the Katie Vick angle and all the tasteless garbage WWE fans love to forget. The first year Vince must have been so blind to what was happening that he figured a few 'crazy stunts' and compelling storylines (for once) could turn the tide and bring back all the new WCW viewers. A lot of late 90s fanboys hoped so and prayed. Those loyal to WWE through the whole 'WCW/NWO' period may have tuned into WCW and somewhat enjoyed it. But never would they want to see their 'side' go out of business. That was the perceived threat at the time (although I never really believed that). I believe a lot of these casual WCW fans tuned in (and cheered against Hogan and the NWO) because they wanted to see the NWO angle ended. The NWO was WCW and without it WWE would survive the onslaught and WCW would fail. So frankly, all this Hogan hate and WCW hate of the past 14 years since WCW was bought out has less to do with the amazing product circa 1996 to early 1999 and more to do with despising the WWE turncoat and greatest angle in wrestling history..which together almost ended 'their' product. The hate toward Hogan and the NWO angle which I still read on this site from some of the most obsessed WWE fanboys is pretty telling.

Now the FPOD. To the obsessed WWE fanatic, the NWO had to disappear for WCW to disappear. WWE fans had waited since mid 1996 for Sting, Goldberg, Savage, Hitman, Horsemen, Wolfpac or whoever to end the NWO. That is how ratings soared. WWE fans tuned in and backed Sting all the way. That is why a guy like Toroc102 comes on here and states the three things that ended WCW started with Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade. He was likely one of those casual WWE fans who remembers the big events but doesn't really know or understand the week to week stuff some of us obsessed WCW fanboys remember. Truth is that Starrcade match was the absolute peak of amazing. However, the match didn't live up to the hype..it was botched.. but it surely wasn't the 'first' straw that broke the camels back. WCW put out amazing Nitros for the next 6 months.

Anyway, back to FPOD. WWE fanatics who partially invested into WCW realized the WCW product was starting to wane around the time Hogan left WCW to 'supposedly' run for the US Presidency. The angles made little to no sense (until after the FPOD). The Warrior return and match at Havoc was a flop. Scott Steiner was the new leader of the NWO Black and White (which resembled an NWO B team). Goldberg had run through the entire roster twice. Ratings were still good but had started to slide (that is until after the FPOD Nitro). Most of us loyal to WCW feared the NWO angle was coming to an end. Our fear was the excitement of the loyal WWE fan. There was an angle leading up to the Nitro after Starrcade (the FPOD was the second Nitro after Starrcade..not the first as one poster mentioned above). The angle was between WCW rep Ric Flair and NWO rep Eric Bischoff. Whoever won this match would now 'run' WCW. Remember, Bischoff had run WCW (storylinewise anyway) since before the NWO angle started. The NWO has always threatened to take over WCW. So if Bischoff lost this match, it would be the official end to the NWO black and white. The night before Hall jumped ship to assist Nash in beating Goldberg. I hated it. But now the NWO black and white had no one. WWE fans from a distance smelled blood. Their product was amazing and WCW looked to be on its last legs..WWE had been winning the ratings war for the most part since that summer. So, anyway, Bischoff lost the match to Flair in grand fashion. Big Show, who it was known was leaving the company in less than a month, almost screwed things up for Flair but a returning, juiced up Savage (in a black and white NWO shirt) came back, turned on the NWO and took him out..leaving Flair all alone with Bischoff. When Flair won, he was paraded around the ring by the WCW lockeroom. His music victorious. Fans on their feat roaring. Schiavone and Zbysko lead us to believe that the NWO was finished once and for all.

Then the following Nitro happened. Hogan had been advertised for weeks to return to Goldberg's and WCW hometown Atlanta (the venue where Goldberg beat Hogan for the title..the night the TV ratings broke records and went up to 7.6!). Goldberg was to get a rematch with Nash. Hogan was merely there to say goodbye to wrestling in his pursuit for the Presidency (seems ridiculous now but this was a time when Jesse the Body had ran for Governor of Minnesota and won). The show started with Elizabeth claiming to cops that Goldberg had been stalking her. He was arrested leaving no one to main event against Nash. Cue Hogan. He comes out without the NWO colours and puts himself into the main event. Fans go ballistic. Everyone knows Hogan and Nash hate each other. This appears to be Hogan's return to the Red and Yellow (which many fans were dying to see). Long story short. Nash lays down, Hogan wins. NWO reunited. Joke is on Goldberg. And joke is on the loyal WWE fan who tuned in to make sure the NWO angle had ended. After Hogan left, the two NWOs feuded lacklusterly because it was all part of the swerve. Looking back listening to Bischoff, Steiner, Nash it's apparent they were fighting to 'create the illusion' of a feud. To 'stop' the almighty Goldberg. The moment Hogan 'left' wrestling was the beginning of the 'great swerve'. Casual WWE fans DON'T get that because they only paid attention here and there. They missed the minor detail. So for them the FPOD makes not a lick of sense. They see it as the beginning of the end and try to revise history like WWE DVDS have done for ages by falsely claiming that it was Bischoff's arrogance to make Schiavone say those comments about Foley that turned the tide for WWE. That's WWE fanboy bullshit. History is written by the victors and that is complete revision. WWE was well on it's way before the FPOD. And WCW's ratings went up from low 4s before the FPOD to above 5 for about 5 weeks. They remained in the high 4s until early May (when it was evident the NWO was being phased out completely).

So, to answer the question as to why a major number within the wrestling community today hate the FPOD. They'll tell you till they're blue in the face it had to do with one wrestler laying down for another. Wrestling was suppose to be all about competing. No one gives up the top title. But this argument is lost on me. First, everyone knows wrestling is scripted entertainment right? Second, WWF changed it's name to WWE three years later. The word wrestling has been phased out for the most part since. The FPOD was entertainment. It hadn't been done as the championship level. And for those of us paying close attention, yes, it made perfect sense considering the awful storyline of the prior two months. Third, Hogan was the heel of all heels. He and Nash had feuded and worked out their differences for a year. They both had a mutual dislike for Goldberg. Nash and Hall were on the same side again. The black and white had been terminated but the wolfpack elite hadn't. The angle made perfect sense and fans were swerved out of their minds. WWE fanboys watched WCW ratings spike and the NWO was united bigger and better than ever. A mere week after it looked like it was all over. Why the FPOD disgusts WWE fanboys so much is because Bischoff (who lost a week before) was laughing like a hyena shouting his 'kazams' and 'gee williker's to a stunned TV audience. It really was absolutely fantastic and should have set WCW back on competitive footing going forward (however all the major players were injured and off TV within 3 months). The WWE revisionist doesn't see it like this (even the booker, Nash, in interviews says it was dumb..as he's guilted into doing so by his peers). But at the time it's what the true WCW fans wanted. One, united, New World Order. One poster above said something along the lines of 'the NWO angle had run it's course and no one wanted to see them reunite'. Well that's garbage. I lived and breathed this period and remember almost every detail like it was yesterday (as you can see). Everyone I knew who preferred WCW loved the NWO by this point. WCW did not feel right without them. When they returned, EVERYBODY loyal to WCW wanted it. Now some of us may have only wanted it back so it could have a proper storyline ending (while some of us wanted the angle to continue for a long time). Point is, the NWO needed to be reformed so storylines could play out and make sense again. That cannot be revised.
 
So, to answer the question as to why a major number within the wrestling community today hate the FPOD. They'll tell you till they're blue in the face it had to do with one wrestler laying down for another. Wrestling was suppose to be all about competing. No one gives up the top title. But this argument is lost on me. First, everyone knows wrestling is scripted entertainment right? Second, WWF changed it's name to WWE three years later. The word wrestling has been phased out for the most part since. The FPOD was entertainment. It hadn't been done as the championship level.

It's entertainment, but it also ruins all suspension of disbelief.

Someone mentioned the 1988 Hogan-Andre-DiBiase angle in the WWF, where DiBiase bought the WWF title. There's a huge difference: In that, the WWF had its cards on the table. The idea was everyone has a price that they can be bought for. Andre had a price where it was worth it to him to beat Hogan which he wanted to do anyways, and give DiBiase the title. The whole angle was built around the idea that the title could be bought, that it was an ignoble thing to do, and it sullied the reputation of the belt, and therefore a tournament HAD to be put into place to find a champion. Whatever anyone has to say about WrestleMania IV itself, the build up and the storyline behind it was pure gold.

The FPoD was pure shit.
 
Let me just say that I have never chosen sides with any wrestling company. I watched WWF when I was little and didn't know anything else. Then I stopped watching for a while and started watching WcW loyally through my favorite wrestling period of all time, 96-98 nWo era. I like good wrestling, which is why I don't watch anything thats on today, have never watched TNA, and stopped supporting WcW after 99. Do not call me a WWE/F fanboy, I am a fan of good wrestling.

"Why all the hate for one of the biggest swerves in all of wrestling history?"

Lol, this question is kind've like saying we should like swerve's just because they are swerve's. Too many swerve's and people stop caring, example, WCW from this point on, TNA for all of its existence, Vince Russo etc.

"This appears to be Hogan's return to the Red and Yellow (which many fans were dying to see). Long story short. Nash lays down, Hogan wins. NWO reunited. Joke is on Goldberg. And joke is on the loyal WWE fan who tuned in to make sure the NWO angle had ended."

This is personal opinion at best, you are assuming WWE fans tuned in to make sure nWo was dead? Wow....WcW did not have this shit planned out man, as evidenced by numerous shoot interviews and the fact that the booking changed hands at least once in between all of this.

ilapierre talks about this whole plan being a ruse to get back at Goldberg, when the seeds for the split of the nWo were being sewn WAY before Goldberg was even a thorn in their side, and the Wolfpack split from the Black and White before Goldberg beat Hogan for the title. Yeah man that makes perfect sense, we're the one's forgetting the details. Not to mention the fact that there was LEGIT heat between Hogan and Nash.

"And WCW's ratings went up from low 4s before the FPOD to above 5 for a few weeks in February. They remained in the high 4s until early May (when it was evident the NWO was being phased out completely)."

You look at ratings in a very simple minded way. For one thing ratings were in the high 4's before the FPOD. Besides that, there is so much to gather from a side by side viewing of the ratings war. WcW pretty much ebbed and flowed WITH the WWF from October of 98 until about May/April of 99 when they started losing viewers and WWE stayed consistent. However people were no longer prioritizing WcW. When WcW was winning people would watch Raw during the commercials, or during the garbage time skits, then that turned around. And after April WcW was pretty much down for the count. Thats my main point, its not like there were 5 million viewers watching Raw and 4 million completely separate viewers watching WcW, more like 3.5 million that watched both and then .5 mil watched only Nitro and 1.5 mil watched only Raw.

Obviously the FPOD was not the ONLY reason people stopped watching WcW, but it is symbolic of all the reasons that they did stop watching, too many swerve's, the bad guy always winning, illogical storytelling(anyone who says that the FPOD was some master plan is the true revisionist, THAT SHIT MADE NO SENSE, coming from someone watched WCW religiously until 99).
 
It's simple bigotry and nothing more. The same people who hate the finger poke of doom also have no problem when WWE did the exact same spot with Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Oh, and let's not forget money in the bank which is the same thing; one guy pins the champ with no match just to change the title for the sake of it. Yet these guys love MITB
DISagree. it's not simple bigotry and nothing more. people actually did love WCW, some people who hate the Finger poke of doom used to love WCW. now for me, i loved WCW despite that dumb move....but anyways, the comparisons aren't good. the Money in the Bank contract cash ins are actual matches where an injured or hurt Champion have to wrestle a fresh and rested up guy. he's not laying on the ground and giving up the title, the story is the champ is hurting and loses it because of an unfair advantage. the comparison with HHH and HBK is bad because it was not for the world title, it was for the European title. the issue with the Fingerpoke was many things 1) it was for the world title..2) some fans were just flat out sick of the NwO....3) it did more harm than good to Goldberg.....4) the mention of Foley to the point it was stupid....5) after a great title change with Foley, WCW gave that title change and some fans just didnt like it......for me, i thought the story was odd, but as long as there was a good story, i was ok with it, however, the story didnt end so good, so i didnt like it.
 
The history of pro-wrestling is for the WWE to dictate to future generations. There were a lot of silly occurrences in WCW at that time and Hogan fingering Nash is used as filler to help fluff up a presentation on the death of WCW.

I watched it as it happened, and felt a bit miffed. Yeah, pro-wrestling is a show that can entertain you for having had irritated you. In this case it was a hyped match that I was genuinely interested in seeing. I recall promos for the match where Hogan would be in the ring talking to Kevin Nash (also in the ring) while Kev had the most hammed up death stare I've ever seen burning a hole right through Hogan. The internet at the time was buzzing with speculation that they truly hated each other.

I haven't done the research in terms of ratings and draws, but I highly doubt that it deserves to be a chapter in the tragedy that was WCW's final years. It was at worst, an angle that punked the audience.
 
"It was at worst, an angle that punked the audience."

I mean, do you really want to be punking your audience when your in a battle for their affections? That's kind've like putting a whoopie cushion under your girls seat after you just had a fight.

The FPOD had elements of every symptom of WcW's decline. WcW would continue punking its fans until it went out of business.
 
"It was at worst, an angle that punked the audience."

I mean, do you really want to be punking your audience when your in a battle for their affections? That's kind've like putting a whoopie cushion under your girls seat after you just had a fight.

The FPOD had elements of every symptom of WcW's decline. WcW would continue punking its fans until it went out of business.

Note to self, buy whoopie cushion.

Seriously though, I should have mentioned that it was my own impression.

Nitro was three friggin' hours long back then, and it was getting pretty close to ending by looking at the clock. I got my luchadore matches, I was content. When you sit through three exhausting hours of a show because you were as dedicated a geek as I was, you don't have a hard time putting up with an angle that makes little sense in that you're passively relieved to have seen the show end at all.

Nitro was punking, it wasn't fair or smart but it qualified as pro-wrestling. I'm not going to make comparisons to the WWE's epic failures because this thread should focus on our impressions of the finger poke.

It was, to me, no more offensive than when it turned out that Kristen shot JR. It's all just a show to me.
 
nWoWolfpackTV2013 analysis of FPOD killing WCW; one of biggest misconceptions that has plagued the IWC for years. Stop jumping on bandwagon of popular IWC consensus & look at the facts. I'll also question theory that the nWo was stale in 99. The FPOD is my favourite angle of all time. To some it was just a Finger Poke but to me it was a shocking swerve that took place on TV. It was also the reuniting of The Outsiders, the merger of nWo B&W & nWo Wolfpac, the crowning of a new WCW World Heavyweight Champion, the heel turns of Kevin Nash & Lex Luger & one of the best professional wrestling beatdowns I have witnessed in which Goldberg was beaten, handcuffed, tasered & tagged. While some of the following events described may not have played out, the initial intent was there & any criticism should be attributed to the booking after the FPOD not the FPOD itself.

Prior to the FPOD WCW had already been losing in the ratings war against the WWF for 9 weeks. They needed to come up with something big if they were to try & claw some momentum back. In my opinion the FPOD was a genius swerve that planted the seeds for months of television. The angle reunited the nWo to it's strongest core (Hollywood Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Lex Luger, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell) by merging the elite members of the two nWo factions together - the purpose being to create a heel factory consisting of top stars for Goldberg to work with. It was also fitting Hogan orchestrated his revenge to regain the WCW title at the Georgia Dome - the same place Goldberg beat him for the title six months prior. The beatdown of Goldberg at the hands of the nWo created heat for the heels & sympathy for the babyface.

"Tradition Bites" ring a bell? I dispute the argument that the FPOD devalued the WCW title as it was congruent with the nWo ethos; they never respected tradition or titles (as emphasized by the spray-painted belt). The nWo's disrespect of tradition during the FPOD also laid the foundations for Hollywood Hogan's feud with Ric Flair - who was better then Ric Flair to represent tradition?

Tony Schiavone infamous comments regarding Mick Foley took place at end of Quarter Hour #8 & during QH #9 on the FPOD episode of NITRO on Jan 4, 99. FPOD didn't take place until QH #12 which by then had increased to a 4.6 Quarter Hour Rating from the 4.1 QHR in QH #11. RAW won every QHR against NITRO on Jan 4, 99 however NITRO pulled ahead 6.5 to RAW's 5.1 during final 5 minute overrun which just so happens to be the FPOD.

RAW (2 hour show)
QH #8: Rock vs. Mankind (6.2)
QH #9: Rock vs. Mankind (5.9)
Overrun: Rock vs. Mankind (5.1)

NITRO (3 hour show)
QH #11: DDP vs. Brian Adams (4.1)
QH #12: FPOD (4.6)
Overrun: FPOD (6.5)

"While the big switch of audiences after Tony Schiavone's comments about Mick Foley is much remembered, what is forgotten is that the growth of the final segment of NITRO, was an incredible 2.1 million viewers, among the biggest growth periods in history." - Dave Meltzer

FPOD edition of NITRO drew a 5.0 rating. THUNDER 3 days later drew a 4.3 rating; the joint 2nd highest rating THUNDER ever drew in the history of the show. NITRO on Jan 11, 99 also drew a 5.0 rating - if FPOD had a negative impact then how come it had enough interest to draw same huge rating the very next week? Below I've compared NITRO ratings for last 2 months (Nov/Dec 98) prior to FPOD & first 2 months (Jan/Feb 99) after FPOD:

2 Nov 98 (4.1) - 4 Jan 99 (5.0)
9 Nov 98 (4.1) - 11 Jan 99 (5.0)
16 Nov 98 (4.3) - 18 Jan 99 (4.4)
23 Nov 98 (4.5) - 25 Jan 99 (5.0)
30 Nov 98 (4.2) - 1 Feb 99 (4.7)
7 Dec 98 (4.2) - 8 Feb 99 (5.7)
14 Dec 98 (4.2) - 15 Feb 99 (3.9)
21 Dec 98 (4.0) - 22 Feb 99 (4.8)
28 Dec 98 (4.6) - 29 Feb 99 (4.3)

Results indicate ratings were better 7 out of 9 weeks after FPOD. Average rating for NITRO in Nov/Dec 98 was a 4.24 while average rating in Jan/Feb 99 was a 4.75 meaning the average rating increased 0.51 after FPOD. Jan 99 was the 2nd best ratings month in NITRO history with a 4.85 average rating & Feb 99 was the 4th best ratings months in NITRO history with a 4.68 average rating. It's worth nothing the Feb 8, 99 unopposed edition of NITRO drew a 5.7 rating which was 2nd highest rating NITRO ever drew in the history of the show. Next 2 months of NITRO ratings are below:

8 Mar 99 (4.4)
15 Mar 99 (4.3)
22 Mar 99 (4.0)
29 Mar 99 (3.5)
5 Apr 99 (4.3)
12 Apr 99 (4.4)
19 Apr 99 (4.1)
26 Apr 99 (3.9)

Average rating for NITRO in 98 which was WCW's most profitable & successful ratings year was a 4.43 (FTR RAW in 98 average rating was a 4.35). Average rating for NITRO during first 4 months of 99 was a 4.45. Below shows those responsible for drawing the highest QHR of each episode of NITRO during first 4 months of 99:

*4 Jan 99 (6.5) FPOD/nWo beatdown of Goldberg
**7 Jan 99 (5.6) nWo B&W confront nWo Wolfpac
*11 Jan 99 (5.5) Steiner w/Bagwell vs. DDP
18 Jan 99 (5.3) Hall vs. Goldberg vs. Bigelow w/nWo run-in
25 Jan 99 (5.3) Hogan/Nash/Steiner vs. Flair/Mongo/Benoit
1 Feb 99 (4.8) Steiner w/Bagwell vs. Jericho
8 Feb 99 (6.4) Outsiders vs. Flair/Mongo
15 Feb 99 (5.0) Hogan vs. Piper w/nWo run-in
22 Feb 99 (4.9) Nash/Luger int, Nash vs. Rey, Steiner vs. Goldberg
29 Feb 99 (4.3) Hogan/Nash/nWo segment
8 March 99 (5.7) Flair vs. Goldberg w/nWo run-in
*15 March 99 (5.4) Hogan/Nash vs. Flair/Goldberg
22 March 99 (4.1) Hogan/Nash host Miss Nitro, Goldberg vs. Hak
29 March 99 (3.8) Hart/Goldberg segment, Bagwell vs. Smiley
5 April 99 (5.4) Hogan vs. Flair vs. Goldberg vs. DDP
12 April 99 (5.4) Sting vs. Flair, Steiner vs. DDP
19 April 99 (5.0) Nash vs. Flair
26 April 99 (4.9) Sting vs. DDP
*NITRO beat RAW
**THUNDER

nWo was involved in highest QHR of every NITRO during first 4 months of 99 excluding the very last week. nWo dominated TV in Jan, Feb & March 99 & was still prominent in April 99. Long term injuries to Luger (biceps tear in Jan), Hall (personal problems in March) Hogan (knee surgery in April) meant that come May 99 the nWo angle was quietly dropped which coincidentally just so happens to be when ratings noticeably & significantly decreased. Having no contingency plan outside of the nWo; IMO WCW should have stayed with nWo angle as it was still drawing. Below shows the average rating of NITRO from Jul 97 to May 99:

Jul 97 (3.43)
Aug 97 (4.30)
Sep 97 (4.14)
Oct 97 (4.15)
Nov 97 (4.07)
Dec 97 (4.06)
Jan 98 (4.52)
Feb 98 (4.80)
Mar 98 (4.66)
Apr 98 (4.63)
May 98 (4.00)
Jun 98 (4.00)
Jul 98 (4.67)
Aug 98 (4.98)
Sep 98 (4.62)
Oct 98 (4.65)
Nov 98 (4.24)
Dec 98 (4.25)
Jan 99 (4.85)
Feb 99 (4.68)
Mar 99 (4.05)
Apr 99 (4.17)
May 99 (3.40)

From Aug 97 to Apr 99 NITRO's monthly average rating drew a 4.0 or above. If the FPOD had such a negative impact then why didn't the big decrease in ratings not occur Jan 99 instead of May 99?

WCW in 97 was considered to be doing respectable business on PPV & in 98 they did even better. In the first four months of 99 while PPV buyrates were down (excluding SuperBrawl 99 which drew the joint 3rd highest PPV buyrate in WCW history) in comparison to 98 they were up in comparison to 97 (excluding Uncensored 99) furthermore the PPV buyrates were still respectable & gate receipts were up significantly on both years.

Souled Out 97 - 5,120 ($68,209). PPV (0.47)
Souled Out 98 - 5,486 ($133,750). PPV (1.02)
Souled Out 99 - 10,833 ($210,740). PPV (0.78)

SuperBrawl 97 - 13,324 ($192,000). PPV (0.75)
SuperBrawl 98 - 12,620 ($310,974). PPV (1.10)
SuperBrawl 99 - 15,880 ($550,651). PPV (1.15)

Uncensored 97 - 9,295 ($101,184). PPV (0.89)
Uncensored 98 - 7,474 ($150,135). PPV (1.10)
Uncensored 99 - 15,930 ($367,805). PPV (0.77)

Spring Stampede 97 - 8,356 ($107,115). PPV (0.58)
Spring Stampede 98 - 7,428 ($235,251). PPV (0.72)
Spring Stampede 99 - 17,690 ($582,230). PPV (0.60)

How simple-minded & naive can one be to believe that the FPOD killed or even contributed to the decline of WCW. A combination of a lack of support from Time Warner (due to Ted Turner's decreased influence), corporate sabotage from people who had never wanted WCW (Turner Broadcasting's redheaded stepchild) to be successful in the first place, being handcuffed creatively by standards & practices & therefore being unable to compete with raunchy WWF Attitude content, over exposure of the product due to addition of Thunder & third hour of Nitro, budget cuts due to the emphasises on EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization), injuries to top stars etc. lead to the decline of WCW, not a wrestling angle.
 
"How simple-minded & naive can one be to believe that the FPOD killed or even contributed to the decline of WCW. A combination of a lack of support from Time Warner (due to Ted Turner's decreased influence), corporate sabotage from people who had never wanted WCW (Turner Broadcasting's redheaded stepchild) to be successful in the first place, being handcuffed creatively by standards & practices & therefore being unable to compete with raunchy WWF Attitude content, over exposure of the product due to addition of Thunder & third hour of Nitro, budget cuts due to the emphasises on EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization), injuries to top stars etc. lead to the decline of WCW, not a wrestling angle."

Had WcW not declined so badly even the people behind the merger would not have had the power to take it off the air. Ratings were down, PPV, was down, attendance was down. Injuries to top stars? So what, instead of 15 proven Main-Eventers they only had 7 at any given time? WcW had the greatest amount of star power of any organization ever. Many of the people who were midcarders in WcW went on to become Main Eventers in the WWE. Not saying that these people didn't want wrestling off of their network, but had WcW remained compelling television their hand would have been tied.

People always talk about WcW being overexposed but WWE had Sunday Night Heat and would add Smackdown not much longer after that, if you compare that to Thunder and Saturday Night, WcW was putting out a grand total of 1 more hour of original television per week than WWE. WcW's booking went into the shitter after 99, nothing ever stayed consistent. Their problem wasn't when stars got injured, it was that every time there was any problem in the company they had to reset everything or change bookers or institute a booking team. You don't think that the unprofessional Lord of the Flies atmosphere backstage in WcW added to the AOL/TNT naysayers preconceived notion of wrasslin?
 
I loved the FPOD as everyone seems to call it. It was one of the last great swerves executed properly before the Internet really took over the wrestling world. Only IWC, and WWE sheeple hate it because it wasn't by Vince, and in their simple minds, they they think the World Belt has the same kind of meaning with the likes of a World Series, or Superbowl win.

The cold reality is that the World Title is basically a prop to showcase your top heel/face in the company, and provide a story angle to build on.

The best part of this swerve had to have been Bischoff. He was pretty much mute the entire night during the broadcast, then came to life right when Hogan won.
 
Had WcW not declined so badly even the people behind the merger would not have had the power to take it off the air. Ratings were down, PPV, was down, attendance was down. Injuries to top stars? So what, instead of 15 proven Main-Eventers they only had 7 at any given time? WcW had the greatest amount of star power of any organization ever. Many of the people who were midcarders in WcW went on to become Main Eventers in the WWE. Not saying that these people didn't want wrestling off of their network, but had WcW remained compelling television their hand would have been tied.

People always talk about WcW being overexposed but WWE had Sunday Night Heat and would add Smackdown not much longer after that, if you compare that to Thunder and Saturday Night, WcW was putting out a grand total of 1 more hour of original television per week than WWE. WcW's booking went into the shitter after 99, nothing ever stayed consistent. Their problem wasn't when stars got injured, it was that every time there was any problem in the company they had to reset everything or change bookers or institute a booking team. You don't think that the unprofessional Lord of the Flies atmosphere backstage in WcW added to the AOL/TNT naysayers preconceived notion of wrasslin?

Part of the reason WCW was losing money was due to the infrastructure of the company e.g. WCW didn't get any revenue from any TV they produced they were only given a budget which was cut when Thunder was added. When Eric Bischoff attempted to generate more revenue through a deal with NBC in late 98 the deal fell through because of the higher ups telling him how to run the company. All the other operating companies under Time Warner such as CNN each had the there own accounting but WCW didn't. WCW fell under "other" category & the higher ups started allocating WCW's revenue to other areas.

To cut a long story short the Turner/Time Warner organization absolutely did not want WCW to succeed. They did everything they could, from early 1998, to lay the groundwork for WCW’s failure, so they could get WCW off the books. They couldn’t do that when Ted Turner was in firm control, but they did when his grip had slipped. They couldn’t attack WCW directly, either. They had to play the corporate game. Eric Bischoff explains it way better than I ever could in his book.

The $360 Billion merger, announced on 10th January 2000 between AOL and Time Warner, is widely viewed as one of the most significant failure of corporate activity in modern times. The merger's collapse was a result not only of the bursting of the dot-com bubble but also of the failings by AOL Time Warner management to ever actually integrate the two companies

Even if WCW made $50 million in profit in 2000 what is that to the guys involved in a $360 billion merger? chump change. They hated pro wrestling & when they had the opportunity to get rid of it they did. Even when WCW was majorly successful they were embarrassed to be involved in pro wrestling.

Jamie Kellner was chairman and chief executive officer of Turner Broadcasting System, Inc., a division of Time Warner which included TBS, TNT, and Cartoon Network. Kellner took over the post in 2001. He got rid of WCW in March 2001 because in his opinion it didn't fit in with the corporate culture of the company. Despite a downturn in ratings (WCW's ratings were still higher than the other programming on TNT and TBS at the time).

Eric Bischoff (through Fusient Media Ventures) had a deal in place to buy WCW for $67.5 million (this after he had already spent $750,000 in due diligence) but the deal fell though when Jamie Kellner cancelled WCW programming. WCW was sold to Vince McMahon for the tiny sum of $2.5 million (to acquire certain assets including 24 talent contacts, trademarks, logos and video library) plus $1.8 Million in legal costs.

"Years before the end of WCW, I gone to a very exclusive high ranking meeting with the all the executives of Time Warner & the advertising people where all the money exchanged hands, & I was there sort of as a the conversation piece at the event. I remember thinking to myself as they went through all the long range projections for TNT & TBS that there was not one mention of pro wrestling even though I was there. I went home & I remember telling my wife that I don't think they are going to keep pro wrestling." Lex Luger (Inside The Ropes - 18th August 2012)

[YOUTUBE]watch?v=ACWdDvW_FeE[/YOUTUBE]

You are truly delusional if you don't believe the long terms absences at various points in 1999 of Lex Luger, Scott Hall, Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner, Goldberg & Bret Hart due to injuries, personal problems & bereavement leave didn't hurt WCW to some degree.

Your argument that WCW wasn't overexposed because WWE basically had the same amount of programming is flawed. If WCW only had to book a 2 hour Nitro instead of having to book a 3 hour Nitro & a 2 hour Thunder, it would have left fans craving more of the product furtermore more time & effort would have went into producing Nitro therefore improving the quality of the show. That WWF wasn't overexposed at the time is irrelevant because they also became overexposed by 2001.

You need to comprehend that every top guy in the business develops intangibles to be a main event star at a different pace. Just because Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit & Rey Mysterio became World Champions in WWE doesn't mean they were ready to be World Champions when they were in WCW. The fact that every single one of the adformetioned names only became World Champions in WWE after WCW went out of business says it all. WCW made Chris Benoit World Champion in January 2000. WWE made Chris Benoit World Champion in March 2004.

Chris Jericho:
He BOMBED as Undisputed Champion so much so taht after his transitional reign he was relagted to midcard for the next 3 years until he left in 2005. He was never positioned & perceived as the franchise guy on a PPV or TV show. From 1999 to 2014 (exluding matches where he clearly just made up the numbers) Chris Jericho only legitimately headlined 7 PPV's (& that's being kind because we all know what real main event of WrestleMania X8 was).

Eddie Guerrero:
When the Radicals joined the WWE in January 2000, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn were each given $250,000 downside guaranteed contracts while Chris Benoit was given $400,000 downside guaranteed contract which tell you everything you need to know about whom WWF thought had the most potential to be a top guy. Eddie may have proved that he was incredibly charismatic during his first WWE run however he also proved to be a drug addict & liability which eventually lead to him being fired in 2001. Throughout his first run he was nothing but a midcard comedy heel & also began wearing a vest at the tail end to hide his physique. The ironic thing about "clean" Eddie's second run with WWE after he return in April 2002 was that he was bigger that ever i.e. clearly using steroids/HGH. While Eddie had developed top guy characteristics & was a much more complete performer by the time he won the WWE Title in February 2004, part of the reason he won it was due to the lack of talent depth. 2004 proved to be a transitional year while WWE elevated John Cena, Randy Orton & Batista. Eddie flopped as WWE Champion. Eddie Guerrero stated in his autobiography Cheating Death, Stealing life "I must confess, in a great many ways I wasn't prepared to carry the company on my shoulders".Eddie Guerrero told The Sun UK newspaper in Feb 2005 "It was a great responsibility being champion, as you're carrying the ball. I found it very difficult. It was first time I held Title & I don't think I was ready to win the belt or what lay ahead of me. I was taking attendances & ratings personally". Bob Holly stated in his autobiography Hardcore Truth “2004 saw Bradshaw win the WWE title after having been a mid-card guy for years. Eddie was finding the pressure of being champion hard to take and he pushed hard for John to be the guy to take it off him.”

Chris Benoit:
From 2000 to 2007 Chirs Benoit legitimately headlined 6 PPV's. Benoit was a midcard World Champion. HBK was added to the WrestleMania XX & Backlash 2004 main events because WWE wasn't confident in Benoit's drawing power or ability to carry a headline feud on the mic plus he didn't even headline Bad Blood 2004. Triple H was always positioned as the star of RAW during Benoit's reign.

Rey Mysterio:
I don't think i need to elaborate how much of a FAIL he was as World Champion.

[YOUTUBE]watch?v=BkTPSaz3kI4[/YOUTUBE]
 
"You are truly delusional if you don't believe the long terms absences at various points in 1999 of Lex Luger, Scott Hall, Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner, Goldberg & Bret Hart due to injuries, personal problems & bereavement leave didn't hurt WCW to some degree. "

Even with those injuries WcW still had way more talent than the WWE, they always did, not to mention WWE lost two of their very top guys in Austin and Undertaker the same year. Somehow WWE was able to make it work with far less star power. When WcW was on the upswing with the nWo in its beginning stages the WWE was able to make Stone Cold, The Rock, DX, Mankind, and Kane. Then in the same time period you are talking about, Stone Cold and the Undertaker got injured, two of their 4 top guys, and they went out and got Kurt Angle over in no time, they elevated HHH, and somehow managed to keep their ratings strong while WcW continued to decline, even though they still had guys like Sting, Sid, Macho Man, Nash, DDP, Ric Flair, not to mention a lot of the guys you mentioned were still very present for a lot of 99.

"You need to comprehend that every top guy in the business develops intangibles to be a main event star at a different pace. Just because Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit & Rey Mysterio became World Champions in WWE doesn't mean they were ready to be World Champions when they were in WCW. The fact that every single one of the adformetioned names only became World Champions in WWE after WCW went out of business says it all. WCW made Chris Benoit World Champion in January 2000. WWE made Chris Benoit World Champion in March 2004."

I didn't say they needed to be Main-Eventers but they could have been used much better than they were in WcW, in fact before 99 their Mid-Carders were used much better. Just compare WWE and WcW's rosters at the time. WcW had WAY more Star power than WWE did pretty much from 96 till the company closed, but at a certain point WcW started feeding all their midcarders to the top talent. The entire CW Division jobbed to Nash, and the rest of the roster was fed to the Main-Eventers, they should've just kept everything separate.

The only thing I'll concede to you is 3 hour Nitro's and the AOL merger, but I will never say that I though the FPOD was a good idea. If people were so worried about repetitiveness with Goldberg's reign then why weren't they worried about reforming the nWo then having him fight them all over again?
 
I think the Fingerpoke of Doom is overly hyped as being a pivotal reason why WCW ultimately folded. I think it happened to be one of the most visibly memorable moments and has become something of a representation of the lousy booking that would dog WCW for the last few years of its existence. Timing had a lot to do with it as well because it took place on January 4, 1999, just over a week from Starrcade where Kevin Nash ended Goldberg's undefeated streak. This was also the first episode of Nitro of 1999and people expect something special for the first episode of the new year, which was supposed to be a big main event. Instead, what they got was something of a middle finger, at least in the eyes of a lot of fans.

So, Goldberg's streak was ended, which was one of the biggest things going in WCW at the time, resulting in him dropping the WCW World Heavyweight Championship, his streak and title reign were ended by someone who ultimately gained nothing from ending it, Nash himself drops the title by laying down 8 days later and the overall result was that it felt as if Goldberg's streak was ultimately ended for nothing.

I was watching Raw that night, I generally preferred WWF at that time for the characters and storylines while I thought WCW had the better in-ring action overall, but I watched the replay of Nitro later on. It struck me at the time as an example of just kind of screwing people over to some degree. It was the first Nitro of the year and a huge main event is announced, so naturally people are gonna expect an actual match. They didn't get it and it just seemed like something that was done purely for shock value. It seemed like something Vince Russo would do, but he wasn't even with WCW at that time.

I think the Fingerpoke of Doom came to represent the beginning of a huge downward spiral in WCW's quality. As a result, I think it gets assigned a lot more prominence and importance than it deserves. I thought it was incredibly crappy booking that struck me as pure nonsense, but it didn't cause the downfall of WCW. Even though it was about 10 months before Vince Russo joined the company, as I alluded to earlier, it fits in with some of the stuff he'd do. The prestige of the WCW World Heavyweight Championship in particular took a nosedive after this. For me personally, even though I wasn't a fan of Goldberg, his was the last memorable WCW World Heavyweight Championship run. The title just took a massive plummet in 1999 and would only get worse in 2000. In 1999, the title changed hands 11 different times and was vacated twice. It changed hands 18 times in 2000 and was vacated 6 times.

However, regardless of how you feel towards the Fingerpoke of Doom, it is NOT, and I can't stress this enough, NOT the same as Money in the Bank. The Fingerpoke of Doom and Money in the Bank can both be categorized as swerves, but just because they're both swerves doesn't make them the exact same thing. That's like saying that since gangsta rap and Christian hip hop are the exact same thing since they're both subgenres of hip hop.
 
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but how is MITB a swerve? I feel like a swerve has to be completely unexpected, I dunno, as long as someone has the briefcase then you kind've have to expect the possibility that it can be cashed in at any time, and you know who the person doing it is going to be, I just don't feel you can call it a swerve.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,732
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top