WCW Round 3, Match 3: Demolition vs. The Hart Foundation

[Shocky]

The Following Matches take place in a WCW Ring and under WCW Rules

Demolition (Ax and Smash)

vs.

The Hart Foundation (Bret the Hitman Hart vs. Jim The Anvil Neidhart)

​

 

[klunderbunker]

The words holy shit could not be more appropriate. These two put on what is to both myself and Norcal the greatest tag team match of all time in the Philadelphia Spectrum at Summerslam 1990 in a two out of three fall classic. These guys meshed so well together that night it was unbelievable. The pure power of Demolition against the power and speed of the Harts. I have absolutely no idea who to pick here. Demolition may very well be the greatest team ever. I will never forget them beating Andre down in the 89 Rumble. They beat Andre down, whereas at WM 2 Andre beat the Harts by himself in a battle royal. That is the only thing seperating them, so I'll take Demolition but expect no argument from me if you pick the Harts because i won't have one.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Hart Foundation!

It's no secret that I was never a huge fan of Demolition. I have said it before - they are just like the rock band Kiss. Face paint and flash, but no substance. They are the professional wrestling equivalent of a 10-inch *****. Huge, bulky, awkward, very few uses.

The Hart Foundation, much like The British Bulldogs, LAX, The Collossal Connection, etc. were a versatile collection of power, speed, technique, etc. Demolition were carbon copies of one another. Bret could ground them, and Neidhart can match power with them.

The Hart Foundation should come out of this classic match-up.

 

[Shocky]

Prepare to drink Shocky Kool-Aid. The First New Admin War has begun.

Demolition, and it's not even close. Everyone points to the tremendous two out of three falls match that the Harts had with the Demos, which for all intents and purposes may very well be the best tag team title match ever. We all know that the Harts one, but that was against Crush and Smash. People tend to forget about the match at Summerslam 1988 when Demolition in their primes had no problem defeating the Harts in their primes.

Out of all the great tag teams of the late 80's in the WWF, none of them compete with Demolition. They maybe all Raw Power and Face Paint, but they were simply put, the best tag team the WWF ever created. Out of all of the great teams to exist in the WWF's history, these two have held the Tag Team titles for more combined days then any of them, with only 3 reigns. You may take Edge and Christians, hardys, or dudleys 343 title reigns combined, it means nothing to me. Demoltion held the belts longer then any other team when thosebelts actually meant something, and they beat the Hart Foundation in their primes to retain the belts.

Drink the Kool-Aid, and vote for Demolition.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

You may take Edge and Christians, hardys, or dudleys 343 title reigns combined, it means nothing to me. Demoltion held the belts longer then any other team when those belts actually meant something, and they beat the Hart Foundation in their primes to retain the belts.

Well here's something I am a touch sick of...

I have noticed, expecially in tournaments, that posters have been attempting to discredit a team or a wrestler with the term "back when the belts meant something." Now, in the case of the Intercontinental Title of the early 90's (Perfect, Hart, Michaels) vs the same belt of today, I can understand that. To an extent.

But what Admin Shocky is trying to do here is plain and simple misdirection. The tag-team championship belts meant a HELL of a lot during Demolition's era AND Edge and Christian's era.

Demolition had to contend with Strike Force, the Hart Foundation, the Collossal Connection, the Brainbusters, and eventually the Nasty Boyz and the Legion of Doom.

Edge and Christian had the Hardy Boyz, Too Cool, T&A, the Dudley Boys, Kane and Undertaker, the New Age Outlaws, the Holly Cousins, Headcheese, and several others.

Now maybe the overall quality of teams during Demolition's era was greater, but the belts meant no more, and no less.

Also, when Demolition had their long reign with the tag belts, reigns of that length were commonplace. There were only 4 pay per views and maybe two taped shows each week. The tag team belts were not defended on the TV shows, and ttle changes occur less than 1% of the time at house shows.

SO befoe I fall victim to Shocky' misdirection and turn this into Demolition vs Edge and Christian, I want to make sure you all understand that Demolition and the Hart Foundation came from the same era, and that the Hart Foundation was a better team. With Hart and Neidhart, there was actual substance. More that just sizzle - actual steak, too!

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm undecided. Right now though, I'm leaning towards the Canadian's side. Mostly because if I didn't, I'd look like a hypocrite. As the champion of the TNA teams in this tournament, Irish is reaching out to me with his substance over style argument. I myself am vocal about not letting how old a team is make you think they're better - not that that's a factor here, of course, but it's the same sort of thing.

Then there's the argument of the Foundation being a combination of strength and speed. I'm not sure if the LAX comparison was directly an attempt to get me on side or not, but it worked. I've also been championing - as evidence my by Staniels argument - speed and agility over brute power - though not shying away from the strength side completely. So right now, the Canadian has me wrapped round his finger.

However, as always, I won't be voting for a while yet, enforcing my own 48 hour (or however long) rule. So feel free to try and woo me to your side Shocky.

 

[Shocky]

I devalue the titles this decade, because they aren't worth what they once was. Hot potatoinng the title so everyone gets a turn and teams end up with 8 title reigns because of one week in length titles, devalues the title. Likewise with the WWF title devaluing with 15 title reigns in 1999, it takes a reign like John Cena's to re-establish how great the WWE Title is. If a team like Edge and Christian, or the other two teams of that time, would have had a lenghty reign with all of the competition, then the value of the belts would have went up tremendously. Instead, the belt devalues because the champs come across as flookish in their wins and inability to retain.

But onto Demolition vs. the Hart Foundation. Let's discount the fact that in the one pay per view match they had that was during both teams primes that Demolition won, or the rematch that resulted in the Hart's cheating and getting disqualified, or the fact that the only match the Harts won over the Demos was a 2 out of 3 falls match with Ax on the sideline and a very green Crush in the match. Let's just discount that when they matched up, Demoltion dominated the Harts time and time again.

The Harts are a great tag team,and it would be silly for me to discount them. Demolitions average title lenght was cut short because they had 3 title reigns to the Harts two. The problem with Demolition, they ran into the Brain Busters. A team that Demolition did beat before losing the straps to them, and then regaining the belts from that team only to draw the ire of the Colossal Connection. Then Demolition went onto to regain the gold from them. So Demolition is quite successful in regaining titles they dropped from the teams that beat them. The Harts were defeated soundly at Summerslam 1989 by the Brainbusters, a team that Demolition defeated and the Harts didn't.

The Harts are probably the perfect combination of strength and speed, a proven formula. That being said, the pure power of Demolition nulls any of what the Harts could throw. Demolition was a team that would beat down teams like the Powers of Pain, Twin Towers, or the Colossal Connection with their power. Huge men being pummelled by the Demos. Also, Something that Klunder said, look at Andre the Giant. Andre was pummelled by Demolition when they isolated the Giant at the Rumble in 1989. Andre the Giant was brought down by these two, when Andre would squash multiple men routinely throughout his career. Demolition were able to beat the big man down in themiddle of the ring.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I devalue the titles this decade, because they aren't worth what they once was. Hot potatoinng the title so everyone gets a turn and teams end up with 8 title reigns because of one week in length titles, devalues the title. Likewise with the WWF title devaluing with 15 title reigns in 1999, it takes a reign like John Cena's to re-establish how great the WWE Title is. If a team like Edge and Christian, or the other two teams of that time, would have had a lenghty reign with all of the competition, then the value of the belts would have went up tremendously. Instead, the belt devalues because the champs come across as flookish in their wins and inability to retain.

What a strong arguement! Too bad it's totally useless in a match featuring two teams who ran concurrently, let alone from the same decade. I was wondering when you originally raised this point exactly where you were going with it, since your boys from Demolition aren't going up against the Hardyz or Edge & Christian. I can see the answer now. You weren't going anywhere with it.

But onto Demolition vs. the Hart Foundation.

Capital idea, your Countship!

Let's discount the fact that in the one pay per view match they had that was during both teams primes that Demolition won, or the rematch that resulted in the Hart's cheating and getting disqualified, or the fact that the only match the Harts won over the Demos was a 2 out of 3 falls match with Ax on the sideline and a very green Crush in the match. Let's just discount that when they matched up, Demoltion dominated the Harts time and time again.

If anything, winning the 2 out of 3 falls match is the best one to win, since they defeated Demolition not once, but TWICE on the same night. ANd to call Crush "green" and dismiss him as such is to ignore the fact that he was also the biggest and strongest of the three men in Demolition.

The Harts are a great tag team,and it would be silly for me to discount them. Demolitions average title lenght was cut short because they had 3 title reigns to the Harts two.

So what? You're having trouble with my "average length of reign" spreadsheet, aren't you? Just concede the fact that, if you want us to accept the fact that Demolition had a great reign back in the day, then YOU have to accept the fact that, according to the numbers, they had two very short, less meaningful reigns. Their total days as champions was front loaded.

The problem with Demolition, they ran into the Brain Busters.

And lost.

A team that Demolition did beat before losing the straps to them, and then regaining the belts from that team only to draw the ire of the Colossal Connection.

To whom they also lost.

Then Demolition went onto to regain the gold from them. So Demolition is quite successful in regaining titles they dropped from the teams that beat them. The Harts were defeated soundly at Summerslam 1989 by the Brainbusters, a team that Demolition defeated and the Harts didn't.

Because they didn't stick around long enough. But that's ok, because the Harts beat Demolition twice at one pay per view.

The Harts are probably the perfect combination of strength and speed, a proven formula.

And Demolition were a great combination of power, and, well, more power. And not much else. It's not like with Vader and Bigelow, where both men had massive power AND agility AND technique.

Demolition was tag team wrestling's sledgehammer. They could break down a wall, and that's it. The Hart Foundation was a hammer and chisel. Hammers and chisels sculpt masterpeices.

That being said, the pure power of Demolition nulls any of what the Harts could throw.

How do you figure? Neidhart was as strong or stronger than anyone in Demolition, and Bret Hart made a career, even as a tag team wrestler, of taking down bigger guys.

Demolition was a team that would beat down teams like the Powers of Pain, Twin Towers, or the Colossal Connection with their power.

Of course, with their power. We assumed that. Because they had nothing else. We didn't think you were going to say "with their wrestling ability" or "with their agility" or "with their brains."

Huge men being pummelled by the Demos. Also, Something that Klunder said, look at Andre the Giant. Andre was pummelled by Demolition when they isolated the Giant at the Rumble in 1989. Andre the Giant was brought down by these two, when Andre would squash multiple men routinely throughout his career. Demolition were able to beat the big man down in themiddle of the ring.

Wow, do you want a cookie? TWO men beat ONE man. An Andre the Giant who had started to decline was knocked down by TWO men? Bret Hart put up a heck of a fight against Andre at the end of the WrestleMania 2 Battle Royal...and he was only ONE man, and not even the strongest on his team.

It's over. Vote Hart Foundation.

 

[Shocky]

If anything, winning the 2 out of 3 falls match is the best one to win, since they defeated Demolition not once, but TWICE on the same night. ANd to call Crush "green" and dismiss him as such is to ignore the fact that he was also the biggest and strongest of the three men in Demolition.

If anything, needing to go to a third fall to face the weakest version of Demolition is an indictment on why the Hart's shouldn't win this match against the strongest version of Demolition, a match that they lost two years earlier on the same card. Crush is green, and he was strong, but Crush and Smash had none of the chemistry that Ax and Smash did. Plus, this match is Ax and Smash vs. the Harts, not Crush and Smash. Ax and Smash won the match.

So what? You're having trouble with my "average length of reign" spreadsheet, aren't you? Just concede the fact that, if you want us to accept the fact that Demolition had a great reign back in the day, then YOU have to accept the fact that, according to the numbers, they had two very short, less meaningful reigns. Their total days as champions was front loaded.

No, it's a damn good spreadsheet, and should pretty much destroy any modern teams chances of winning this thing in my opinion. It sounds like an attempt at devaluing the reign of Demolitions Front Loaded Title Reign. You know the record holding 483 day title reign. That in itself considering the time of what many consider to be the Golden Age of Tag Wrestling for the WWF speaks volumes (the reign that also included a big pay per view reign over said Harts).

Because they didn't stick around long enough. But that's ok, because the Harts beat Demolition twice at one pay per view.

Again, aganst a past their primes demolition, which didn't even feature a member of this match up, and it took 3 Falls to beat them.

And Demolition were a great combination of power, and, well, more power. And not much else. It's not like with Vader and Bigelow, where both men had massive power AND agility AND technique.

Demolition was tag team wrestling's sledgehammer. They could break down a wall, and that's it. The Hart Foundation was a hammer and chisel. Hammers and chisels sculpt masterpeices.

We aren't painting masterpieces, it's wrestling a match. Bret Hart is without a doubt, probably a top 3 performer ever in the singles realms, but that's null and void here. You're right, Demolition was a Sledgehammer, that's what you want to be when your Tag Team name is Demolition, and your names are Ax and Smash. You pound the hell out of your opponents and you beat them into a pulp, which is what they did, to everyone. Whether it be the Bulldogs, the Rockers, Collossal Connection, or the Twin Towers. Any team with any combination of speed and strength, Demolition beat, and beat them the same way, with power.While someone is taking a chisel to me in a fight, I'll take a Sledgemhammer anyday.

How do you figure? Neidhart was as strong or stronger than anyone in Demolition, and Bret Hart made a career, even as a tag team wrestler, of taking down bigger guys.

I think it's debatable on Neidhart being stronger then Ax and Smash. It maybe a push, and if he is more powerful, it's not by much. Hart did make a career of beating bigger guys, as a single wrestler. At this point in his career, he wasn't that Bret Hart yet.

Of course, with their power. We assumed that. Because they had nothing else. We didn't think you were going to say "with their wrestling ability" or "with their agility" or "with their brains."


Wow, do you want a cookie? TWO men beat ONE man. An Andre the Giant who had started to decline was knocked down by TWO men? Bret Hart put up a heck of a fight against Andre at the end of the WrestleMania 2 Battle Royal...and he was only ONE man, and not even the strongest on his team.

It's over. Vote Hart Foundation.

Nice, Demolition wasn't smart. Demolition was a lot of power, I'll grant you that, but don't let the assless chaps and the face paint full you. Demolition was beaten badly one time in their careers,and that was to the Colossal Connection. It was a match that had Heenan at ringside and he orchestrated a masterpiece. If you remember that match, The Colossal Connection completely kept Ax out of the ring, and destroyed Smash the entire time. Axdidn't come in once. Now fast forward to the rematch at WM 6, Demolition did the same thing. Not once in that match did Andre get in the ring, and Demolition once the match. So discount the Wrestling IQ of Demolition is ssilly, they'll think if they have too.

And in tag team wrestling, it is relevant to isolate one man. If and When Demolition isolates one member of the Harts, it's over, just like at Summerslam 1988 when both faced off in their primes.

I know it's hard to vote against that nice Red Beard and Canadian blood, but vote Demolition.

 

[I.R.S was ace]

If anything, needing to go to a third fall to face the weakest version of Demolition is an indictment on why the Hart's shouldn't win this match against the strongest version of Demolition, a match that they lost two years earlier on the same card. Crush is green, and he was strong, but Crush and Smash had none of the chemistry that Ax and Smash did. Plus, this match is Ax and Smash vs. the Harts, not Crush and Smash. Ax and Smash won the match.

Again, aganst a past their primes demolition, which didn't even feature a member of this match up, and it took 3 Falls to beat them.

At the end of the second fall, Demolition switched members meaning the Hart Foundation beat all 3 members in the 2/3 falls match.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Time to cast my vote. Some strong arguments from Shocky and Irish, obviously.

My lack of belief in title reigns and amount and length thereof means that some of Shocky's arguments fell on deaf ears. However, I think he did have a point with Demolition having a better track record. We did see that track records don't necessarily matter though, with Undertaker going over Shawn Michaels in the singles tournament last time around.

And of course, I'm a big fan of Irish's versatility argument. If I weren't, I couldn't possibly recommend voting for LAX. I went with the Canadian here. Just.

Edit: Whoa, I feel kinda bad after seeing how many votes the Foundation received.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

At the end of the second fall, Demolition switched members meaning the Hart Foundation beat all 3 members in the 2/3 falls match.

Check and mate, Shocky. Thanks for bringing this point up, IRS.

With the score 17-5, I think my work here is done. It's obvious who the superior team truly was.

 

[tarp]

This is one of the most enjoyable arguments I have read. Most of the time I know how I am going to vote but I read all of this and I am now going to vote Demilition. I think Road Warriors were screwed, Brain Busters also. Demiltion losing to the Harts is no disgrace and I can deal with it. However the title reign is to big of a deal to me. Everyone puts Flair down, because he stuck around to long, and had to lose 16 times to be a champ that many times. However Flair held the title over a year on four occassions. From 81- 88 he was champ for all of 247 days. I bring this up because to me Demilition title reign is that impressive. IC and Shockey but great jobs.