WCW Region, Third Round, Ladder Match: (5) Andre the Giant vs. (13) Goldberg

[Johnny Scumm]

I'd put Goldberg over Andre right now, fuck the Andre can't climb part, but so much factors into Goldberg winning.
Say Andre tries to climb, gets near the top and all of a sudden, the ladder starts to move, Berg is pushing it over and the giant ends up falling off in ring/to the outside. That's gonna do enough damage to leave him down long enough for Goldy to climb up and win, even not in kayfabe.
Goldberg and Andre are both big men, who are most definitely agile to boot, but something here makes me give the match to Goldberg.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'd put Goldberg over Andre right now, fuck the Andre can't climb part, but so much factors into Goldberg winning.
Say Andre tries to climb, gets near the top and all of a sudden, the ladder starts to move, Berg is pushing it over and the giant ends up falling off in ring/to the outside. That's gonna do enough damage to leave him down long enough for Goldy to climb up and win, even not in kayfabe.
Goldberg and Andre are both big men, who are most definitely agile to boot, but something here makes me give the match to Goldberg.

So what happens if Goldberg tries to climb, gets near the top and all of a sudden, the ladder starts to move, Andre is pushing it over and Goldberg ends up falling off in ring/to the outside?

Are you making the Andre can't push over a ladder argument?

People have no respect for wrestling history or legacy if they would consider for a second putting Goldberg over Andre. Sad.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

I'm going with Andre on this one. I don't buy the whole not able to climb a ladder thing that people bring up because if nothing else he could use Big Show's huge ladder from Money In The Bank and climb that.

Goldberg was a beast in his prime yes but Andre could take him. As GSB said Andre would knock Goldberg out with the ladder if he had to.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

So what happens if Goldberg tries to climb, gets near the top and all of a sudden, the ladder starts to move, Andre is pushing it over and Goldberg ends up falling off in ring/to the outside?

Are you making the Andre can't push over a ladder argument?

People have no respect for wrestling history or legacy if they would consider for a second putting Goldberg over Andre. Sad.

Hey you blank-shootin' douche, miss me?


Now calm down, we all respect Andre. If someone doesn't he deserves to be in that tub Andre defacated in. Now the only analogy I am using, and feel free to challenge it, is Goldberg's jackhammers on big dudes is a spectacle. And he is quick as a cat on coke.

It isn't over as quickly as people might be imagining. I expect some outside brawling, a bearhug, hand dropping twice and on the third time ughhhhhhh look at that! Goldberg's alive! Headbutt, distance, SPEAR!

(spit, do his popeye-orgasm face)

Point to the rafters, Jackhammer! Puts up the ladder climbs it up and pulls down...whatever it is on the hook.



We still love Andre though.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Goldberg wins this. Even a prime Andre still doesn't have the speed and athleticism of Goldberg.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Hey you blank-shootin' douche, miss me?


Now calm down, we all respect Andre. If someone doesn't he deserves to be in that tub Andre defacated in. Now the only analogy I am using, and feel free to challenge it, is Goldberg's jackhammers on big dudes is a spectacle. And he is quick as a cat on coke.

It isn't over as quickly as people might be imagining. I expect some outside brawling, a bearhug, hand dropping twice and on the third time ughhhhhhh look at that! Goldberg's alive! Headbutt, distance, SPEAR!

(spit, do his popeye-orgasm face)

Point to the rafters, Jackhammer! Puts up the ladder climbs it up and pulls down...whatever it is on the hook.



We still love Andre though.

Now here are the flaws in your argument:

1) They are coming from you
2) Andre was booked as someone who was never bodyslammed. Are you telling me all of the sudden he is getting Jackhammered?
3) You are pretty much ignoring Andre's offense. His headbutt alone would split Goldberg's forehead open.
4) A spear is lucky to get Andre off his feet let alone do much damage.
5) Why is the referee checking Goldberg for a submission in a ladder match?
6) WCW is Where the Big Boys Play, Andre is the biggest boy of them all.
7) Goldberg may have Jackhammered Big Show but Big Show and Andre are not the same wrestler.
8) Yes, Andre never won a world title in his prime but this match is not for a world title.
9) Andre's long reach and strong hands would make those corny kicks Goldberg did pointless.
10) They are coming from you.

OK, some of those points had nothing to do with what you said but I'm old and I get lost in my own thoughts some times.

Andre wins, drinks all night with major celebrities, makes heavily lubed love to multiple women and Goldberg gets to go back to Atlanta with his Participation Trophy.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Now here are the flaws in your argument:

1) They are coming from you
2) Andre was booked as someone who was never bodyslammed. Are you telling me all of the sudden he is getting Jackhammered?
3) You are pretty much ignoring Andre's offense. His headbutt alone would split Goldberg's forehead open.
4) A spear is lucky to get Andre off his feet let alone do much damage.
5) Why is the referee checking Goldberg for a submission in a ladder match?
6) WCW is Where the Big Boys Play, Andre is the biggest boy of them all.
7) Goldberg may have Jackhammered Big Show but Big Show and Andre are not the same wrestler.
8) Yes, Andre never won a world title in his prime but this match is not for a world title.
9) Andre's long reach and strong hands would make those corny kicks Goldberg did pointless.
10) They are coming from you.

OK, some of those points had nothing to do with what you said but I'm old and I get lost in my own thoughts some times.

Andre wins, drinks all night with major celebrities, makes heavily lubed love to multiple women and Goldberg gets to go back to Atlanta with his Participation Trophy.

I am gonna make you crap your adult diapers and answer

UPSIDE DOWN

9) But William kicked Paul Wight just fine?
8) I never said a title... This is a ladder match and...WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS HANGING FROM THE HOOK?
7) The WCW Giant was athletic and cool as shit. I used the analogy to show that Andre can be lifted.
5) He's seen The Longest Yard.
4) Oh no, there wouldn't be just ONE Spear. Raven got 2, Rocky got 3. Andre gets a good healthy bunch.
3) Goldberg bled before his matches....you know what I mean!
2) And Goldberg was billed as the powerhouse who could beat ANYBODY! JackHammer ANYBODY and EVERYBODY! And he did!




Bottom line. Goldberg takes this as this is really a SPECTACLE more than a match. And Goldberg always won the spectacles.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I too am not subscribed to the idea that Andre The Giant couldn't climb a ladder. However, I've not actually seen anybody this year use that argument so I'm not sure it's relevant. I do feel, though, that Andre the Giant is going to have more difficulty climbing a ladder than Goldberg who could be lightning quick at times.

Andre has the career longevity factor way over Goldberg. That's not really a great comparison to make for these two particular guys because Goldberg wasn't really in love with the business and didn't feel the need to spend his whole life as a part of it. He was with WCW from his début until it died, and then again in the WWE for a single year. That's certainly not because he was unpopular, it's just because he wasn't in love with the business and didn't want to be doing it until he couldn't go any more. Andre was with the business for a long time, but he obviously enjoyed what he did to some degree because the man continued to go out in the ring with a terrible back for years to entertain. But the point is, he and Goldberg aren't comparable with longevity because we never got to see how Goldberg would have coped if he'd have stayed in it for longer.

Andre was a draw from the get go, but once again that's not really fair either. I'm not saying this as a criticism, but it is true, Andre's appeal was that he was in excess of 7ft and weighed over 400 pounds for most of his career, he was a real giant. Goldberg's appeal was down to good booking, good booking initially but a poor blow-off. That's another story. Both guys were successful for really the entirety of their careers, even if one lasted far longer.

Both guys were THE most dominant guys wherever they resided. Goldberg tore through the entire WCW roster and beat Hogan first time for the WCW title. Andre travelled and often drew but that was only to save face for the guy he was facing so they could continue to do business. He was still booked as the dominant force in pretty much every encounter he's been in. Goldberg also tore through the WWE roster for his year there, starting with The Rock and ending in Brock Lesnar. Within that time he beat pretty much everybody who was there.

So really, we're building up a picture of just how similar these guys were. Goldberg may have been nearly a foot smaller, but that made no difference to how he was booked, except for maybe the fact that his matches generally were quicker than Andre's. Just a product of the booking they required to get him over. Goldberg has always been regarded as an unsafe worker, but I think he's always been under-appreciated for his technical ability because he rarely got the chance to demonstrate it. Andre was a good worker, very good for his size, so not much to say there. But generally it took a good worker to get a good match out of Goldberg because he wasn't very good at constructing an engaging longer match. I ask you, how much does that matter? If Goldberg got the reactions he often did in a 10-minute match with a main event star, did he really need to go 20-minutes and expose himself a bit. Not really. And because he rarely did, he matches were generally pretty exciting.

The bits that I think divide them are thusly:

1) Goldberg was more dominant than Andre. Yes he was a flash in the pan, but for as long as he was around, he was THE man and we've all heard about his streak. Andre was lauded as being undefeated for 15 years at point, but historians would tell you that it wasn't true. He did lose matches, not often but some. That still distinguishes him from Goldberg through. I'd need someone to refresh my memory for the amount of times he ever lost clean.

2) The ladder. Yes, as I said, Andre isn't incapable of climbing a ladder. But he can't do it like Goldberg can. He would need that re-enforced ladder that the Big Show has brought out a couple of times, and Big Show could barely lift that thing it was so heavy and sturdy. Goldberg can climb a normal sized ladder and he can be super quick:

[YOUTUBE]wX1otuIlsrI[/YOUTUBE]

That's him older in 2004 by the way.

So yeah. As much as wrestling purists might want to give this one to Andre, I'm afraid Goldberg was the more impressive of the two, at least booking wise. It's not just that though. I've also always felt that Goldberg has been given a hard rap by wrestling fans. Goldberg got over not just because he was anybody who they booked, see Ryback this year, they gave him the Goldberg treatment and it didn't work out so well. People pounced on the parallels as we know.

Goldberg was a guy who was very intense, very quick, very strong and very exciting, there's no way around that. His lack of talking only added to his appeal, not that he would've had to compete with Andre in that respect. But I also think he's better in the ring than he gets credit for:

[YOUTUBE]9dnCnvet_iA[/YOUTUBE]

I want you to note how Goldberg works with a guy who's shooting on him in the ring. He stays calm, keeps on working with the guy and even out wrestles him for a bit. He pulls off a couple of very impressive technical moves and looks the part in the ring against a guy who's trying to ruin his whole mystique. In the end he pulls through and delivers his finish as expected and gets the win in a genuinely hard-fought match. The second match is arguably his best ever:

[YOUTUBE]e57hdaTv0sA[/YOUTUBE]

Goldberg could be unsafe, it's true, but it has been exaggerated somewhat. Goldberg could work a match fine most of the time, and just how he ought to have done for his character and the fans. So basically I'm putting him over here. Andre's agility in his prime is greatly exaggerated and nowhere near as good as Goldberg's, plus we all know Goldberg has the strength and speed to drop a guy like him. He did it plenty of times when working with The Big Show.

I'm not adverse to votes either way, but I reckon Goldberg would be more likely to win this and so I have to give it to him.

 

[Da Solo]

Goldberg wins any way you look at it. A ladder is not going to survive Andre, period. Maybe that industrial size ladder that Big Show uses whenever they throw him in the MitB match can stand a chance, but by the time he gets his heavyset self up there (slowly, due to the heavyset part), Goldberg will have already took him down and speared him.

And I see some using the "Young Andre had the athleticism to do it" argument, but then again Young Andre isn't as big as Older Andre, and even Older Andre is having problems getting past a monster like Goldberg. And if you go with Older Andre, the ladder will die. Goldberg wins after a showoff-ish spear (or jackhammer if we're really using our imaginations) and scaling the ladder.

 

[Dirk]

First of all, is there a worse picture of André you could have used. Damn, man, I know that one comes from wikipedia, but it's just awful.

I have a scenario in my head: After a truely titanic struggle, Goldberg is on the concrete, but as André sloooooooowly struggles up the ladder, Goldberg gets up. In a desperate attempt to stop him, Goldberg Spears the shit out of that ladder. André is out, broke a leg, maybe and Goldberg is concussed, because André landed on his head. This is such a huge clash, not suited the stipulation at all. Whoever wins this one, won't win the next one as well...

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Goldberg usually gets shit on in these matches, against long-time stars, but he was a force. He won't win, and shouldn't, but he was definitely a force.

The one problem Goldberg has - he's never faced anyone like Andre. Not just Andre's size, but how dominant Andre was in his prime. Goldberg faced dominant guys like Hogan, but that was well out of Hogan's prime. Hogan was nowhere near unbeatable when Goldberg took the strap from him.

Goldberg's streak got more press, but how many years did Andre go without losing a match? I refuse to research it, because I know it last a whole lot longer than Goldberg's streak.

Don't get me wrong - this would be a war. No one puts down Goldberg without a fight. However, Andre's nearly unstoppable, and someone like Goldberg comes close, but can't finish Andre.

Andre wins.

 

[Tastycles]

Ignoring the stipulation for a moment, Andre is definitely susceptible to losing to raw power. The people that beat him most frequently - Hogan, and particularly the Ultimate Warrior were power first finesse second, just like Goldberg, who is a walking highlight reel of incapacitating big men. Andre is probably historically the better wrestler, but that was true of many of Goldberg's opponents, and I don't see this being any different. Goldberg win.

 

[Bernkastel]

Ignoring the stipulation for a moment, Andre is definitely susceptible to losing to raw power. The people that beat him most frequently - Hogan, and particularly the Ultimate Warrior were power first finesse second, just like Goldberg, who is a walking highlight reel of incapacitating big men. Andre is probably historically the better wrestler, but that was true of many of Goldberg's opponents, and I don't see this being any different. Goldberg win.

Goldberg's booking was strong and all, but so was Andre's. The difference was Andre was relevant for years as a major draw and attraction, while Goldberg fell back into obscurity after losing the title, and he never regained it. Ever found it strange that guys like Steiner, DDP, and Booker T were multiple time world champs and Goldberg only a 1 time world champ? One would think that with his popularity he would have held the belt several more times during the company's dying days... but it's not like he didn't chase it either... if fact he lost. To Bret Hart. Multiple times. In a face vs face feud.

If the streak is Goldberg's prime as a relevant draw, then I'll gladly take Andre for having more longevity and likely better quality as a big star... it was under Goldberg's reign as champion that WWE managed to catch back up to WCW in the ratings war.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Here's a secret about Andre the Giant, he didn't really win against the biggest names - he either drew or lost. Goldberg's whole career was about winning and he is exactly the type of guy that Andre would have put over.

 

[Bernkastel]

Here's a secret about Andre the Giant, he didn't really win against the biggest names - he either drew or lost. Goldberg's whole career was about winning and he is exactly the type of guy that Andre would have put over.

The Streak was about winning; once Goldberg lost the title he fell back into obscurity and never won it again. Goldberg was never the quality or quantity of draw that Andre was. I'll gladly take decades as a top draw over a flash in the pan as a top draw. The only big names that Goldberg beat with the streak were Raven, Giant, Sting, DDP, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, and a heel Hulk Hogan. Vut against another top face in Bret Hart he'd lose... Andre wasn't as big as Hulkamania; but he was surely just as big as Bret Hart.

Don't be jaded. Vote Andre.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

The Streak was about winning; once Goldberg lost the title he fell back into obscurity and never won it again. Goldberg was never the quality or quantity of draw that Andre was. I'll gladly take decades as a top draw over a flash in the pan as a top draw. The only big names that Goldberg beat with the streak were Raven, Giant, Sting, DDP, Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, and a heel Hulk Hogan. Vut against another top face in Bret Hart he'd lose... Andre wasn't as big as Hulkamania; but he was surely just as big as Bret Hart.

Don't be jaded. Vote Andre.

There's nothing jaded about me, I love Andre...

... but when Andre came up against the top stars, he either drew (Race, Bockwinkle) or lost (Kanek, Inoki, Hogan, Warrior). Even though most consider Goldberg's WWe run a flop, he still defeated the big names (Trips, Rock, Lesnar). History does indicate that Andre would put Goldberg over.

 

[steve_smith]

This argument that Andre lost to Hogan and Warrior doesn't hold up.

He lost what? 25 to 30 years into his career to the 2 BIGGEST NAMES in wrestling.

So 20some years into his career (when he can barely walk anymore) he finally puts other wrestlers over and is still a draw.

Where is Goldberg even 15 years after his debut? NO ONE CARES.

Goldberg had this run (1/15th of Andre's) to look unstoppable. Then he was defeated several times soon after. All occurring within a couple of years. He was given the streak gimmick. It worked for a short period of time. He lost. He became irrelavent. He's not even a Top 50 wrestler. Andre is Top 10.


Please have respect for one of the legends who helped build and mainstream this form of entertainment. A first ballot hall of famer. Vote Andre.

 

[8thwotwATG]

I take Andre to go over Goldberg in this matchup. I would never deny that the monster push that Goldberg received was one of the most unprecedented in wrestling history, and Bill Goldberg did one hell of a job selling his invincibility. I can also understand the majority of the arguments for his going over Andre in this match, but I just disagree with several of them. In the case of him being stymied by the likes of Hogan, and the Ultimate Warrior, this, to me, was more a case of an aging, broken down, barely mobile Andre' putting over a younger, healthier performer for the sake of the business. Even in his final years, Hogan BARELY defeated Andre' to retain his title at WMIII. Against the Andre' who was still able to perform at a high level, Hogan came up on the short end, more often then not. I feel that against an Andre' that was at his physical peak, Goldberg would not have been booked to go over the giant. The list of wrestlers who went over Andre' during his nearly 30 years as a professional was fairly small and exclusive. I believe that most of the clean jobs he did were at or near the end of his long career. Andre's 10 plus years of being booked as an unstoppable wrestler, his overall superiority as a pro wrestler, and his ability to draw, even well after he had passed his best days, trump Goldberg's year and change run at the top, IMO. Against a peak Andre, he would be up against a 7 foot 400 lb. powerhouse who could work a match crisply and cleanly. It would be a brutal battle, and Andre's going to take his share of lumps and then some, but in the end, I could see Andre' beating him down for a long enough period of time to ascend the ladder and grab the case to take the win in a close, bloody battle. I feel that Andre' is just overall the better pro wrestler, and deserves to go over Goldberg. If this were a Hogan, a Cena, a Rock or a Stone Cold Steve Austin, I could justify any of them going over Andre', but in this case, Goldberg's pedigree doesn't match up to that of Andre'.


Vote Andre' the Giant.

 

[steve_smith]

This is a complete injustice that Andre the Giant is losing to Goldberg in the voting.

Andre is a first ballot hall of famer! A top ten of ALL TIME!
He didn't just have a year undefeated streak, he friggin' invented the undefeated streak! And his was 15 years long. FIFTEEN YEARS LONG. Nobody was booked superior to Andre.

His heel turn was, at the time, the most historic heel turn of all time. His heel turn, and subsequent match with Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania helped make Wrestlemania into the mega event it is today. What the hell has Goldberg done for the industry that Andre hasn't times ten?

The two arguments put forth for Goldberg going over here just don't hold up.

1.Goldberg's undefeated streak.

Goldberg's streak was a gimmick. It lasted a year or so then he turned into a typical (but boring) main event face. Shortly after, tv ratings started to tank and his company went under.

Then we have Andre. Nobody could logically be booked to go over Andre for 15 years. It wasn't until he GOT OLD, COULDN'T MOVE, and TURNED HEEL before someone else (Hulk Hogan at that) could go over him. Andre the Giant was, arguably the biggest draw in wrestling for a decade. I know there was a period where he was the highest paid wrestler in the world.

Andre was a face for most of his career and there was no way that bookmakers would turn there golden goose into a heel just to get beat by a 'flash in the pan' like Goldberg. No Way. And no way face Andre loses to Goldberg.

2. People have argued that Andre couldn't climb a ladder. What the Fuck. Yes when Andre was at the tail end of his career (some 30 years later) he could barely walk to the ring, let alone climb a ladder. But people stilled paid money to see "The 8th Wonder of the World" anyway. Who wants to see Goldberg wrestle in the year 2025?.....

In Andre's prime, he was agile as hell. Youtube some of his matches from Japan in the 70s before you vote. He would go off the top rope. If he could climb the turnbuckle, he could climb the ladder. Very dumb argument.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Dear Mr Smith, I think you will find that my argument was that Andre's kayfabe streak was deceptive in that he generally drew against the big names and lost to the biggest names. Whatever anybody thinks of Goldberg's short career, he was one of the biggest names (if not the biggest) names in wrestling during it's biggest boom period and beat several headliners of both the WCW and the WWF. Bill was exactly the exception that Andre put over and this is the type of match that he could lose and still look strong, the old Andre trapped in the ropes shtick I'm sure we've all seen.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I can't believe this. Andre the Giant in his prime, NEVER lost. It was either a draw or a win. Goldberg's undefeated streak was against such foes as Hugh Morris, Glacier, Mongo McMichael, and Mike Enos. I also know he had tougher foes, but Andre never had days off. He wrestled three or four men at a time and beat them with ease. In his prime, Hogan didn't beat him. Flair didn't beat him. Race didn't beat him. Hansen didn't beat him.

Should I go on?

This ridiculous notion that the ladder's a factor in this match would be asinine as neither Goldberg nor Andre have been in ladder matches, so this is the debut for them both.

And Goldberg's not manhandling Andre here. Andre might be more prone to manhandle Goldberg, but it's not going to be as easy.

But when it comes down to it, Andre can fend off Goldberg enough to keep climbing and win the match.

Vote Andre.

 

[deem]

I can't believe this. Andre the Giant in his prime, NEVER lost. It was either a draw or a win. Goldberg's undefeated streak was against such foes as Hugh Morris, Glacier, Mongo McMichael, and Mike Enos. I also know he had tougher foes, but Andre never had days off. He wrestled three or four men at a time and beat them with ease. In his prime, Hogan didn't beat him. Flair didn't beat him. Race didn't beat him. Hansen didn't beat him.

Should I go on?

This ridiculous notion that the ladder's a factor in this match would be asinine as neither Goldberg nor Andre have been in ladder matches, so this is the debut for them both.

And Goldberg's not manhandling Andre here. Andre might be more prone to manhandle Goldberg, but it's not going to be as easy.

But when it comes down to it, Andre can fend off Goldberg enough to keep climbing and win the match.

Vote Andre.

[youtube]bw8cRoLM-9w[/youtube]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x36aym_goldberg-vs-scott-hall-ladder-match_sport#.UVoYCpNO8oo

There's two Goldberg ladder matches and the field got screwed in the fourway - he beat Scott Hall in the one on one though. Ladder match experience (y)

Andre is better than Big Show for sure - similar size and power though and Goldberg had little problem man-handling him.

Plus Goldberg's streak wasn't against as weak a pool of talent as you'd have us believe. Curt Hennig, Big Show 16 times, Hogan, Hall, Meng, Yuji Nagata, Sting, Bam Bam, DDP, Raven etc.

Plus Andre DID lose in his prime, more than was let on. They strived to maintain his "unbeatable" reputation by failing to mention the times he lost. His losses include El Canek, Jerry Lawler, Ron Garvin, Killer Kowalski, Harley Race, Antonio Inoki, Don Leo Jonathan, Lou Thesz, Karl Gotch, Strong Kobayashi and The Sheik. It's right not to include his two losses to Hogan and nine to Warrior as he was definitely past it at that point.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

[youtube]bw8cRoLM-9w[/youtube]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x36aym_goldberg-vs-scott-hall-ladder-match_sport#.UVoYCpNO8oo

There's two Goldberg ladder matches and the field got screwed in the fourway - he beat Scott Hall in the one on one though. Ladder match experience (y)

Andre is better than Big Show for sure - similar size and power though and Goldberg had little problem man-handling him.

Plus Goldberg's streak wasn't against as weak a pool of talent as you'd have us believe. Curt Hennig, Big Show 16 times, Hogan, Hall, Meng, Yuji Nagata, Sting, Bam Bam, DDP, Raven etc.

Plus Andre DID lose in his prime, more than was let on. They strived to maintain his "unbeatable" reputation by failing to mention the times he lost. His losses include El Canek, Jerry Lawler, Ron Garvin, Killer Kowalski, Harley Race, Antonio Inoki, Don Leo Jonathan, Lou Thesz, Karl Gotch, Strong Kobayashi and The Sheik. It's right not to include his two losses to Hogan and nine to Warrior as he was definitely past it at that point.

All are better wrestlers than Goldberg. In the end, I still say Andre would pull this one out. Glad to see you mention the Goldberg ladder matches. I genuinely had no idea he was in a ladder match.

 

[deem]

All are better wrestlers than Goldberg. In the end, I still say Andre would pull this one out. Glad to see you mention the Goldberg ladder matches. I genuinely had no idea he was in a ladder match.

I struggle to name someone that isn't a better wrestler than Goldberg, certainly in this tournament. Maybe Warrior Still, he was booked super strongly and that's all that matters.

I think this being a ladder match is more important than people are making out too. The point isn't that he's got experience and Andre hasn't - it's not rocket science, you place a ladder in the centre of the ring and climb it. It's not like its Lou Thesz or something who has literally no idea how to work a gimmick of the nature, Andre had his share of Stretcher matches etc.

The reason its important for me - Andre doesn't have to be pinned. The list of people to pin Andre is a lot shorter than the victories over him by countout - you can extend the people that beat him by countout to Duggan, Savage, Studd and Jake. His loss to Lawler was via him getting tangled in the bottom rope and counted out - that's all it takes to win a ladder match. The 10s countout would be enough vs a guy that's not gonna be sprinting back in after a big spot.

I can totally see him getting tangled in the ropes here. There's a lot of possibilities actually - spear through a barricade, vertical suplex through an announcers table etc.

In a pinfall/submission match, you could make a case based on Goldberg's success against big men but I would find it harder to push him pinning or submitting Andre. Here, there's a ton of finishes that would work just fine in or out of kayfabe.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

If we are talking about primes, then we must base this on Andre BEFORE he became barely mobile and incredibly slow. That being said, he would be a hell of a lot lighter if that was the case which is very important for one reason. If Goldberg can hit the Jackhammer on The Big Show, its likely he could do it to Andre. And if he lands the Jackhammer, you better believe that the Big Man is going to be down long enough for 'berg to climb the ladder.

The question is, could Andre wear down an in-prime Goldberg (who dominated EVERYONE) enough to prevent him hitting a spear and jackhammer. Probably. But I don't think he would. In WCW Goldberg really was a phenomenal athlete, this is his home turf and I think he would shock the world by hoisting Andre up, slamming him with the Jackhammer and climb the ladder.

Winner: Goldberg