Undertaker: Just Retire Already

[reddevil69]

these guys that say "he needs to start doing the job" really hand me a laugh..first of all, the guy is in better shape and has better stamina and agility then half the young guys on the roster currently...as far as jobbing goes, every wrestler in WWE has a job to do...it's a television show at the end of the day with stories and results being crafted by writers and bookers..Taker's job is to be the big star that dominates most of the time and so far it's worked pretty fuckin' well for the past 19 years...I don't see or hear anyone booing him as they do Cena.

jobbing is for other wrestlers who are being paid well to do just that because that is their role in the company. Taker has put over many younger guys such as Kennedy,Lesnar,Edge,Orton, Batista and even Khali...yes he always goes over in the final rubber match more often than not, but that is his job and his that is what the company and Vince want to happen...as long as the fans still cheer him and buy a ticket to see him and buy his merch in the numbers that they still currently do, then there is no reason for him to leave, period, just because someone has an opinion that he should retire does not make it so.

 

[SSJPhenom]

you are correct, how could i forget that time that he...beat edge HIAC and won that feud... oh well edge had some wins over undertaker at wreslema...backla... HA, he kept his title at judgement day by countout! and it only took a whole lame ass faction to beat the undertaker at ONS in edge's specialty match!

What is your point? 'Taker still made Edge look good as a heel. When Edge first went to SD, who did he beat to win his first WHC on SD?

i get what your saying, the undertaker does give ppl the rub, i'm stating he should start jobbing out and really giving others a push instead of "you held your own with the MMA demon"

If 'Taker should start jobbing then HBK and HHH should start jobbing aswell. If Hogan comes back, he should job also. I don't get what you want from him. He is still better in the ring than 95% of the WWE roster. Why should he job? WWE needs him to be the demon. Don't blame him because that is the character that he plays. If he were to start losing to guys like JoMo and Ziggler, it would completely undermind everything that 'Taker has built with his character over the years.

LMAO
relevant? someone please tell me how being the lord of the undead is relevant? say what you want about cena's gimmick, atleast its believable. if the undertaker would have debuted anytime this decade he would have been chewed up and spat out by the audience (ecw's "the zombie" anyone?) also how does the Undertaker keep his gimmick fresh? his current gimmick involves him using the exact same scare tactics, than PPV MATCH. yes that never gets old

You are right, it doesn't get old. People still mark out for 'Taker and he is still one of, if not the most cheered person in the WWE. When is the last time that you have heard him being booed? If he wasn't relevant, then he wouldn't the kind of response that he does get.

His gimmick is frest because he always seems to tweak it every few years and he doesn't give his character a chance to wear on us because he takes breaks to heel and recover.

i already talked about the edge feud, the feud with batista where there was never a clear cut better man? decent but why not have batista beat the undertaker? maven was to bolster tough enough, if maven had not won that the undertaker would not give two shits about captain eyebrows. kennedy, he dummied kennedy. angle andlesnar yes he put over i'll admit. mankind got himself over with his HIAC bump, suprise suprise taker beat mankind several times. the only reason he made kane look good was because it also helped his career, if he dummied kane the angle would be silly.
i know that seemed hateful to the undertaker but iam not bashing the guy or never lies down, i'm just saying that currently, when his career cant get any better and he does not need wins, whatis so bad about being pinned by the new talent?

for example, if hypothetically you had austin vs orton. would it not be more fitting for orton to beat austin clean, making the current generation look good? would it not be silly to have austin win, which tells the audience the old days are better than what we are currently watching? basically my stance is that undertaker should full out job to certain newer stars and pass the torch. the Undertaker has had his time, now it is time to give other's that opportunity

The thing about 'Taker is that he doesn't have to job to give the rub. He is good enough for people to get the rub by having an outstanding match with him. If the WWE made 'Taker job to people all of the time, it would be a slap in the face to their most loyal employee that they have ever had.

How could any of these new guys beat 'Taker clean and it be believable. Ziggler couldn't beat Mysterio but you are going to tell me that he can beat 'Taker?

Right now in the WWE, 'Taker is the be all end all and you have to work your way up the ladder, before you can get a chance to work with him, because just working with him will boost one's career.

 

[vault]

Undertaker now is much like The Great Muta was in Japan for a while, a "Special Attraction" Many of Muta's matches in Japan during the last few years have been "Special Battles" against other legendary wrestlers or up and comers who could benefit from either a win over Muta or a long 20 min classic in a losing effort against him. That spot is more well known as the "Andre spot." A spot it takes YEARS and YEARS of hard work to get. You only get it IF you have proven your worth and ability to draw crowds AS WELL as the ability to go out and tear the house down EVERY single time you go out there. It also comes with loyalty, The Undertaker could have went back to WCW during the 90s, made more money, AND kept his character. Much like The Ultimate Warrior and The Rock, Mark OWNS the Undertaker character as a reward for his loyalty over the years. As another reward during the late 90s, he still might have it but he had a contract that was the most lucrative at the time. When Bret went to renew in '97 he wanted that type of contract. He wanted 'Taker's $20, 000, 000/10year contract.

Undertaker might not have been the big name who was the face of the company at any time BUT he has been able to morph his character and keep it relevant and popular for almost two decades. That's not any small feat. On top of that, he can move very quickly for a man his size in wrestling. Before he was a wrestler he was a Basketball player who was on the verge of going pro but became a wrestler instead. Being a star basketball player gave him many of the things that are rare for a near 7' 300 lb man. Sure he was slow during the beginning years with the gimmick BUT we see now that he was just holding back to fit the gimmick. Also adding the MMA moves over the last couple of years he has done another rarity for a veteran wrestler, ADDING to his moveset and making himself appear that much more dangerous.

I am a HUGE taker fan, have been since I first saw him, and with all of his good matches over the years IMO. That might make but biased but I think if he keeps up his current schedule he can go for at least a couple more years barring any major injuries.

 

[C4Mahdee]

i was watching Legends of Wrestling the other day (this goes with the JR convo that popped up) and Jim Ross stated on the record that he thought the Undertaker was the best big man/Giant in wrestling history. He said Taker was the new Andre and in this industry as Vault was alluding to is perhaps the biggest compliment one can recieve. Even when Andre was two years from death and on crutches at Summerslam the crowd still popped. Hopefully Taker won't end up that way but if he did, the results would be the same I'm sure. Undertaker draws, has always drawn and will always draw. His time will be over when it's really over. When will this be? I could see it happening in the next 5 years. Maybe less, but surely no longer. Again though, barring any major injuries, count on it being under Mark Callaway's terms.

 

[byrnside]

I agree that he should retire. He is as one dimensional as they get and corny as hell. I am embarrassed when I watch him. Hornswoggle has more credibility than Undertaker. I can buy a midget beating guy's like Mark Henry. I can't buy some idiot who is supposedly from hell, has super powers, and can summon fire from God knows where. His feuds are the same and are simply one dimensional. Taker, even though he is an old man, doesn't put anyone over. He single handedly killed DDP's career, refused to job to Lesnar, clears the ring with 100 guy's in it by himself, never ever jobs clean, always win the final matches in a feud, doesn't draw, and has buried countless tag teams by beating them by himself in handicap matches. WWE would be perfectly fine without him since Taker doesn't draw. I pray that Punk at least looks ok when he is done feuding with Taker. Punk is in for a burial of a lifetime.

Um... The Undertaker has less credibility than Hornswoggle.. That is a very, very bold statement man. The Undertaker is a legend in this business. He's one of the guys that's held it up over the years, when guys like Stone Cold and the Rock have come and gone. He was here way before Edge, and way after Andre [both great Wrestlers, I'm not knocking either of them.] DDP was almost 40 when he got started in the business. DDP's age killed his own career. He couldn't do a body slam without taking a week off afterward. If I were the Undertaker, I wouldn't have jobbed to Lesnar either. Lesnar either didn't give a shit, or understand how the wrestling business works. He came in, became a huge star, stepped over about 15 guys to get there and "squashed" them all. As soon as he got to the top, he bailed because he couldn't hack it. And you're crazy if you think the Undertaker doesn't draw. If the Undertaker didn't draw he wouldn't be 17-0 at Wrestlemania.. Do you have any idea how many DVDs alone the WWE sells
because of that. I wouldn't worry about C.M. Punk, the WWE may even surprise you. C.M. Punk might even walk out of Breaking Point with the title.

 

[reddevil69]

The only reason why Jim Ross rated him so instead of Triple H is because Taker is probably the best Big Man wrestler to ever grace the WWE & has contributed a lot to make lackluster feuds become great. However, Triple H has done a lot more for the business than people think. His backstage endeavours greatly surpass Undertaker & is more of a businessman contributing to the company than Taker that does not include the wrestling side. Yes, Taker has done more in the ring lately to improve other wrestlers but Triple H is going to be moved to the same boat very soon judging by the match he had with Legacy.

Think, before you post.

you should take your own advice and think before you post.HHH has held down and buried more guys than anyone in the WWE...ask Goldberg,Lesnar,Angle,The Rock, Billy Gunn, Kennedy and Booker T to name a few...all of them have done shoots and all of them have accused Hunter of using his stroke as Vince's son in law to hold guys back or put himself ahead of what's right for business...every one of those same guys as well as every other wrestler that's walked through the door of that company in the last 19 years has nothing but praise for Taker, and that includes Ultimate Warrior and he trashes everyone...on his shoot he had nothing but good things to say about Taker....

Ken Kennedy just did an interview a month ago for ESPN and said there are two mountains in the WWE, the one Taker stands on and the one everyone else stands on...he said Taker is the one guy who has more clout than anyone, including HHH but he never abuses it or puts himself ahead of what's right for business...he said HHH let him know right away that he had the power to get anyone fired and that hunter was an arrogant jerk...you'll find all kinds of evidence from other wrestlers saying the same thing about HHH...

they are not all liars and they can't all be wrong about the same guy....you will not however find one shred of any wrestler saying something negative about Undertaker both in and out of the ring...he is a class act, he is one of the biggest draws in history and he can still deliver in the ring, period end of story. Taker is known to this day as the locker-room leader in WWE, HHH is not...there is a reason for that, and for you to say Hunter's backstage endeavor's have surpassed Taker's is pure anathema and a load of crap.

 

[jrocc4dub]

Taker should stay as long as he wants. A legend. Period. He can still out perform the majority of the roster and is known as a leader in the locker room. He's tried to help by putting guys like nathan jones and the sort over. He's a leader. Besides, who is more over than taker? As for his enterance, it's awesome. So what if it takes 3 or 4 minutes.
As far as the constant HHH bashing. Just stop. The guy was an awesome worker in his prime and he can still go. I don't understand why he's even mentioned in a post about taker. Get over it. Taker should be around forever though.

 

[Lady Die]

I would have to disagree with the idea that Taker should retire. I could understand why he might want to; the TV shows are starting to become something of a joke. However, Undertaker is eternal, even considering that he's been around for so long. He inspires, he stirs the mind and the heart, he instills in the fans a hope for wrestling to continue to be badass even as the shows succumb to the demands of society and ratings. It breaks my heart that he is beginning to seem (to some - certainly not to me) like an old dog who has no new tricks. He has never been one to change his M.O. in order to acquiesce to the expectations of the new generations of fans, and he is all the more respectable for that. I believe that no matter how hokey the scene gets, Undertaker will always be Undertaker, and thus will always be awesome. I hate to say it, but there's no place for realism in wrestling anymore. Everyone wants panache and overdone flair, and Undertaker is - no pun intended - old school. I will always believe in The Phenom, and so long as he has the undying devotion of fans like me, he will live on as The Taker Of Souls.

The Deadman lives.

 

[reddevil69]

Taker should stay as long as he wants. A legend. Period. He can still out perform the majority of the roster and is known as a leader in the locker room. He's tried to help by putting guys like nathan jones and the sort over. He's a leader. Besides, who is more over than taker? As for his enterance, it's awesome. So what if it takes 3 or 4 minutes.
As far as the constant HHH bashing. Just stop. The guy was an awesome worker in his prime and he can still go. I don't understand why he's even mentioned in a post about taker. Get over it. Taker should be around forever though.

I am over it, but when a misinformed person proceeds to say that Taker's backstage endeavors are not on par with that of Mr.Stephanie McMahon Triple H's, I'm going to reply to it.The fact that Taker is the locker-room leader and doesn't abuse his stroke and play backstage politics is even more reason for him not to retire.The younger guys need an example to look up to,not someone who married their way into the position they are in. I never once said HHH was not a good worker...

he was an exceptional wrestler up until about 7 years ago....he's never been the same since his quad injuries and in my opinion is not near as dynamic of a performer as Taker...when's the last time you've seen HHH do a plancha or even leap of the top rope or fall off of a ladder into tables? he does not take any high risk bumps anymore and Taker is 5 years older and just as banged up as he is and weighs about 50 pounds more and he still does all the high risk bumps in order to give fans their money's worth.

 

[cooper1]

The Undertaker was an excellent gimmick when he first started for the WWE back in 1990 but that was nearly 20 years ago.

When he debuted he was genuinely scary and intimidating and a dominant force to be reckoned with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE2llhJTxzk

That video proves it.

When he went to his American Bad Ass gimmick it was a fresh change and showed us a different side to Mark Callaway even though a lot of people didn't like him with this gimmick.

So he came back as The Deadman at a time when these sorts of gimmicks were dead and buried.

He is no longer the dominant intimidating force he once was and has come back to take Jeff Hardy's spot on the roster.
Why couldn't we have someone new and young in the main event scene like Morrison or Ziggler instead of a 44 year old man who is completely past his prime.
He just doesn't look right these days in my eyes and I have to fast forward or change the channel whenever he comes down for his entrance because it is just too long and takes up too much air time.
WWE has said they are all about building new stars for the future, so why bring Taker back back to the main event scene unless its to put the new guys over which I really hope is the case.

Don't get me wrong I used to rate Undertaker very highly and his match at WM XXV with HBK was awesome, I just feel he has outstayed his welcome and no one buys into the "taking of the souls" crap anymore.

I feel its time for Undertaker to lace up his boots call it a day and just let the WWE rest in peace without him.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Do you agree or completely disagree with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

you retire from this forum

 

[CenaSux4Life78]

On the retirement of The Dead Man, I hate to say it, but yes I think it the time is coming soon. Its not that I disrespect The Undertaker, not at all. But really, what is left for him to do? Yes he is helping putting guys over, like Punk. But we all know that Taker takes his time off to heel his knees. No real explanation for that needs to be given if you have followed him these last 19 years. I dont want to see him retire, but I know he will sooner or later. Hell, he thought about it earlier this year. Mania would have been his last match, but I read an interview where he said that HBK brought something to the ring he hadnt felt in awhile. I give him one maybe two more Mania's and he will retire. Probably become a GM or something. That would be best.

 

[GOD]

On the retirement of The Dead Man, I hate to say it, but yes I think it the time is coming soon. Its not that I disrespect The Undertaker, not at all. But really, what is left for him to do? Yes he is helping putting guys over, like Punk. But we all know that Taker takes his time off to heel his knees. No real explanation for that needs to be given if you have followed him these last 19 years. I dont want to see him retire, but I know he will sooner or later. Hell, he thought about it earlier this year. Mania would have been his last match, but I read an interview where he said that HBK brought something to the ring he hadnt felt in awhile. I give him one maybe two more Mania's and he will retire. Probably become a GM or something. That would be best.

He thought about it earlier ???? You can read what Taker is thinking now ???

Where is the interview where he said that Shawn brought something to the ring that he hadn't felt in a while ?????

I don't believe you.... Show me some PROOF!

 

[Milkyway!]

you should take your own advice and think before you post.

He really should. Shouldn't he?

HHH has held down and buried more guys than anyone in the WWE.

Really? Who?

..ask

Sweet you're going to name a few for me!

Goldberg

Goldberg wasn't that good, to say the least. That being said, Triple H didn't bury him. He always had to have help from Evolution, and it made Goldberg look strong by the fact that he pulverized through all four of them, to get to Triple H, manyatime.

Lesnar

Funny. I never even recall a fued with Triple H for Lesnar to be burried. Lesnar had a very very short career. That went something like this. Squash stage, Angle stage, Goldberg/Stone Cold Steve Austin stage, off to the MMA.

Angle,

...Probably one of the most over men in the history of Wrestling. Hes not a huge draw, but he was always built very strong in the WWE. The only time I can think of Kurt Angle looking bad, is when he lost his Gold Medal, in his Gold Medal challenge.

The Rock,

Don't huff gas anymore. Please.

Billy Gunn,

Billy Gunn was pathetic.

Kennedy

They had a fued? Much like Lesnar, his career was quite short. It went Undertaker, Injury, Shawn Michaels, MITB, Injury, Injury, Injury, released. I don't even recall a MATCH with Triple H, let alone being burried by him. Then again I could be wrong, feel free to show me where you're coming from.

all of them have done shoots and all of them have accused Hunter of using his stroke as Vince's son in law to hold guys back or put himself ahead of what's right for business.

Yes, because I'm tottally going to listen to some morons mad at their release. So they blaim Triple H, a top draw in the WWE for the past decade. The guy may do his fair share of politicking, but anytime hes been the number 1 guy, hes deserved it. Just listen to his pops when hes been champion. Look at the amount of Triple H shirts are in the croud. Checkout the ratings when Triple H is on the show. Go ahead, do it.

he said Taker is the one guy who has more clout than anyone, including HHH but he never abuses it or puts himself ahead of what's right for business.

..he said HHH let him know right away that he had the power to get anyone fired and that hunter was an arrogant jerk...you'll find all kinds of evidence from other wrestlers saying the same thing about HHH...

they are not all liars and they can't all be wrong about the same guy.

You go ahead and release me from a job that I've worked very hard at doing. I'll say mean stuff about you too, to run down your name into oblivion. Triple H does whats correct for business.

HHH is not...there is a reason for that, and for you to say Hunter's backstage endeavor's have surpassed Taker's is pure anathema and a load of crap.

You know what goes on backstage? Hunter seems fairly respected by the people who like him, and are sucessful. Once I hear bad things about him from someone like, John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Vince McMahon, JR, King, etc...I'll believe it. But not recently released wrestlers like Kennedy, Booker T, Goldberg, That other guy you mentioned, Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle.

 

[reddevil69]

He really should. Shouldn't he?



Really? Who?



Sweet you're going to name a few for me!



Goldberg wasn't that good, to say the least. That being said, Triple H didn't bury him. He always had to have help from Evolution, and it made Goldberg look strong by the fact that he pulverized through all four of them, to get to Triple H, manyatime.



Funny. I never even recall a fued with Triple H for Lesnar to be burried. Lesnar had a very very short career. That went something like this. Squash stage, Angle stage, Goldberg/Stone Cold Steve Austin stage, off to the MMA.



...Probably one of the most over men in the history of Wrestling. Hes not a huge draw, but he was always built very strong in the WWE. The only time I can think of Kurt Angle looking bad, is when he lost his Gold Medal, in his Gold Medal challenge.



Don't huff gas anymore. Please.



Billy Gunn was pathetic.



They had a fued? Much like Lesnar, his career was quite short. It went Undertaker, Injury, Shawn Michaels, MITB, Injury, Injury, Injury, released. I don't even recall a MATCH with Triple H, let alone being burried by him. Then again I could be wrong, feel free to show me where you're coming from.



Yes, because I'm tottally going to listen to some morons mad at their release. So they blaim Triple H, a top draw in the WWE for the past decade. The guy may do his fair share of politicking, but anytime hes been the number 1 guy, hes deserved it. Just listen to his pops when hes been champion. Look at the amount of Triple H shirts are in the croud. Checkout the ratings when Triple H is on the show. Go ahead, do it.


..he said HHH let him know right away that he had the power to get anyone fired and that hunter was an arrogant jerk...you'll find all kinds of evidence from other wrestlers saying the same thing about HHH...



You go ahead and release me from a job that I've worked very hard at doing. I'll say mean stuff about you too, to run down your name into oblivion. Triple H does whats correct for business.



You know what goes on backstage? Hunter seems fairly respected by the people who like him, and are sucessful. Once I hear bad things about him from someone like, John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Vince McMahon, JR, King, etc...I'll believe it. But not recently released wrestlers like Kennedy, Booker T, Goldberg, That other guy you mentioned, Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle.

hmmmm...so your saying after they spent 6 months building up Lesnar as the next big star, he beats Rock clean at SS 2002 to become the undisputed champ and three weeks later HHH gets a title belt given to him out of a haliburton by Bischoff and you don't think that cut Lesnars credibility in half? now he's not the next big star, he's not the undisputed champ, he's the champ of Smackdown only....Lesnar has spoke of this before and said it was done deliberately to diminish his drawing power...

and what about building up Goldberg for Summerslam 2003 and having all the fans think he was finally going to topple HHH only to have that bullshit finish and HHH keep the belt?...the fans shit all over it and it was an insult to them...next month he jobs to Bill at a B ppv and the buyrates were half that of Summerslam, that is not how you put over your top babyface...whether you think Goldberg was good or not is not the point, he was a huge draw and a major name and they could have done a helluva alot more business with him if HHH hadn't killed off his heat.

and from an employee standpoint, I'd be pretty pissed if I was told I'd be THE champ, meaning i'd headline all the PPV's and get the main event payoffs from those PPV's and all of a sudden I'm now told I'm going to work only half the PPV's that i was promised because the boss' son in law is now the champ of the flagship show because he was handed a defunct belt from a briefcase....and in case you hadn't noticed, Lesnar's doing pretty damn well, he's only the biggest PPV draw in the world right now in UFC...

Austin,Rock,Booker and Goldberg are not disgruntled ex- WWE employees, they left the company because they either retired or in Booker and Goldberg's case were sick of the bullshit.....from what I understand Booker is financially secure and works at TNA because he still loves the business and doesn't want to work a hectic schedule...Goldberg,Rock, and Austin all are set for life and have moved on from wrestling, but they have all made reference to HHH's nepotism at one time...they are not trashing him because they are upset at being fired, I don't think they could give a fuck, they don't need the WWE, they said what they said because that is how they felt about their experience with Hunter.

 

[Kanye South]

The Undertaker was an excellent gimmick when he first started for the WWE back in 1990 but that was nearly 20 years ago.

When he debuted he was genuinely scary and intimidating and a dominant force to be reckoned with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE2llhJTxzk

That video proves it.

Okay.

When he went to his American Bad Ass gimmick it was a fresh change and showed us a different side to Mark Callaway even though a lot of people didn't like him with this gimmick.

Okay.

So he came back as The Deadman at a time when these sorts of gimmicks were dead and buried.

Wrong. The great thing about the Undertaker is that he's timeless. In wrestling, nothing is dead and buried. You think a beer drinking redneck who constantly disrespects his boss is realistic? Hell no. You think a guy running everywhere screaming about being a real American is realistic? Hell no. So by the same token, a guy who dresses like it's Halloween everyday and threatens to take everyone's soul isn't realistic, but it's entertaining.

The definition of a good character is that no matter how ridiculous it is, the fans still like it. If the Undertaker, Hogan, or Austin showed up on Raw, the place would go fucking nuts. But if the Brooklyn Brawler, I.R.S., or Al Snow showed up on Raw, they would get cheers from the fanboys and smarks, but not much else. Now all six of these gimmicks are ridiculous, but the true test is how the individual with the gimmick pulls it off. Steve, Terry, and Mark all have charisma, and that's why they were and are so successful.

He is no longer the dominant intimidating force he once was and has come back to take Jeff Hardy's spot on the roster.
Why couldn't we have someone new and young in the main event scene like Morrison or Ziggler instead of a 44 year old man who is completely past his prime.

.

You think Ziggler and Morrison are ready for the main event? I'm a huge Ziggler fan and an even bigger Morrison fan, but you just can't blindly force them into the main event. Things take time, and right now, the WWE is doing it's best with the main-event scene.

He just doesn't look right these days in my eyes and I have to fast forward or change the channel whenever he comes down for his entrance because it is just too long and takes up too much air time.
WWE has said they are all about building new stars for the future, so why bring Taker back back to the main event scene unless its to put the new guys over which I really hope is the case.

It's sad if you don't have the maturity and patience to sit through a 2 minute entrance, if that long.

Do you watch Smackdown? Do you see how The Undertaker is putting CM Punk over? And Taker is obviously retiring within the next year, so I don't see the harm in putting the belt on him one or two more times. As a legend, he deserves it.

Don't get me wrong I used to rate Undertaker very highly and his match at WM XXV with HBK was awesome, I just feel he has outstayed his welcome and no one buys into the "taking of the souls" crap anymore.

No one buys into any of the gimmicks in the WWE. Just like I said earlier, wrestling isn't supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be entertaining. If you can't forget about reality for an hour or two, then don't watch wrestling, simple as that.

I feel its time for Undertaker to lace up his boots call it a day and just let the WWE rest in peace without him.

Good thing you're not Vince McMahon.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Do you agree or completely disagree with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I don't think I even need to answer this question.

 

[theawsomes1]

The Undertaker was an excellent gimmick when he first started for the WWE back in 1990 but that was nearly 20 years ago.

When he debuted he was genuinely scary and intimidating and a dominant force to be reckoned with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE2llhJTxzk

That video proves it.

When he went to his American Bad Ass gimmick it was a fresh change and showed us a different side to Mark Callaway even though a lot of people didn't like him with this gimmick.

So he came back as The Deadman at a time when these sorts of gimmicks were dead and buried.

He is no longer the dominant intimidating force he once was and has come back to take Jeff Hardy's spot on the roster.
Why couldn't we have someone new and young in the main event scene like Morrison or Ziggler instead of a 44 year old man who is completely past his prime.
He just doesn't look right these days in my eyes and I have to fast forward or change the channel whenever he comes down for his entrance because it is just too long and takes up too much air time.
WWE has said they are all about building new stars for the future, so why bring Taker back back to the main event scene unless its to put the new guys over which I really hope is the case.

Don't get me wrong I used to rate Undertaker very highly and his match at WM XXV with HBK was awesome, I just feel he has outstayed his welcome and no one buys into the "taking of the souls" crap anymore.

I feel its time for Undertaker to lace up his boots call it a day and just let the WWE rest in peace without him.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Do you agree or completely disagree with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I completly disagree i still think that the undertaker has a couple more wrestlmanias to win. They should take him back to what he was like in the attitude era. when he was half undertaker have badass.
here is my idea, they should think about for the undertaker.
while he is fuding with punk he should turn back into the badass and that would get punk steaming then after he defeates punk for the whc he should make punk drink some beer. then punk would not be the straight edge superstar anymore. then to show undertakers true dominance have the entire roster turn against him but he still destroys them all. i think dolph ziggler and john morrisn would make a good team. so the wwe should kinda turn morrson back into the bad guy like he was will miz and then he formes a team with dolph ziggler and they go after undertaker. then at the rumble one of them wins an they decide toface the undertaker at mania. then dolph or morrison beat undertaker an when whoever beats him beatshim shoot up to instant megastar and the undertaker retires. that would give the wwe the chance to make amazing stars oiut of the young guys and get some of the old guys (undertaker, triple h, shawn micheals) gone. those are my thoughts for the future of wwe but i still think the undertaker is the best there was the best there is and the best there will ever be.

 

[byrnside]

He really should. Shouldn't he?



Really? Who?



Sweet you're going to name a few for me!



Goldberg wasn't that good, to say the least. That being said, Triple H didn't bury him. He always had to have help from Evolution, and it made Goldberg look strong by the fact that he pulverized through all four of them, to get to Triple H, manyatime.



Funny. I never even recall a fued with Triple H for Lesnar to be burried. Lesnar had a very very short career. That went something like this. Squash stage, Angle stage, Goldberg/Stone Cold Steve Austin stage, off to the MMA.



...Probably one of the most over men in the history of Wrestling. Hes not a huge draw, but he was always built very strong in the WWE. The only time I can think of Kurt Angle looking bad, is when he lost his Gold Medal, in his Gold Medal challenge.



Don't huff gas anymore. Please.



Billy Gunn was pathetic.



They had a fued? Much like Lesnar, his career was quite short. It went Undertaker, Injury, Shawn Michaels, MITB, Injury, Injury, Injury, released. I don't even recall a MATCH with Triple H, let alone being burried by him. Then again I could be wrong, feel free to show me where you're coming from.



Yes, because I'm tottally going to listen to some morons mad at their release. So they blaim Triple H, a top draw in the WWE for the past decade. The guy may do his fair share of politicking, but anytime hes been the number 1 guy, hes deserved it. Just listen to his pops when hes been champion. Look at the amount of Triple H shirts are in the croud. Checkout the ratings when Triple H is on the show. Go ahead, do it.


..he said HHH let him know right away that he had the power to get anyone fired and that hunter was an arrogant jerk...you'll find all kinds of evidence from other wrestlers saying the same thing about HHH...



You go ahead and release me from a job that I've worked very hard at doing. I'll say mean stuff about you too, to run down your name into oblivion. Triple H does whats correct for business.



You know what goes on backstage? Hunter seems fairly respected by the people who like him, and are sucessful. Once I hear bad things about him from someone like, John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Vince McMahon, JR, King, etc...I'll believe it. But not recently released wrestlers like Kennedy, Booker T, Goldberg, That other guy you mentioned, Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle.

Awesome, someone who gets it!! Not that a lot of others who posted on this thread didn't get it. Because I think 99.9% of you disagree with the fact that "Taker should retire!" Personally, I don't care if he goes as long as Flair did, or longer. He could go 'til he couldn't bodyslam Hornswoggle and most everyone would still respect him. Because that's just the kind of man Mark Calloway is, a man who deserves and gets respect. Because of his loyalty, his work ethic, his in-ring ability [including athleticism, psychology and mic work], drawing power.. The reasons are endless. He is the biggest and best superstar in the WWE to date. And this coming from a huge Triple H and HBK fan.

Funny thing is, and just as a side note, so many of those released people said so many nice things about the Undertaker, and I don't doubt that they actually believe them. But could you imagine what the Undertaker would be capable of in a real life fight. Of any of the guys that works in the WWE he'd be the absolute last person I wanted to fight.

 

[Milkyway!]

hmmmm...so your saying after they spent 6 months building up Lesnar as the next big star, he beats Rock clean at SS 2002 to become the undisputed champ and three weeks later HHH gets a title belt given to him out of a haliburton by Bischoff and you don't think that cut Lesnars credibility in half?

No, thats part of being a heel. You get things handed to you from time to time. Its called "Cheap Heat" The people saw it as unjust, and it got Triple H massive amounts of heat, obviously serving its purpose.

now he's not the next big star, he's not the undisputed champ, he's the champ of Smackdown only

That was the point of the brand split. To create compitition between the brands. It never occured the way Vince wanted it to really play out. But it SmackDown was brought in, as a show to take WcW's place of compitition. The wrestlers then were becoming "Brand Exclusive" the champion was featured on only one show. Thus, both shows needed a champion. Just as we have today.

....Lesnar has spoke of this before and said it was done deliberately to diminish his drawing power...

Thats dumb. If Lesnar actually said this (Which I certainly can't find, thus think you're making it up) hes probably the biggest moron on the face of the planet.

and what about building up Goldberg for Summerslam 2003 and having all the fans think he was finally going to topple HHH only to have that bullshit finish and HHH keep the belt?

Are you joking me? That is one of the best elimination chambers to this day. The ending was far past superb, and showed what a true heel is all about.

...the fans shit all over it and it was an insult to them..

.

The fans absolutely ate this up. Triple H was so over as a heel it wasn't funny. Now, I'm sure I don't need to get into the physics of heel, and face, but just to be safe. The Heel's job is to make the fans hate them, and the face's job is to make the fans love them. Triple H is good at both.

next month he jobs to Bill at a B ppv and the buyrates were half that of Summerslam,

Proof? Please? You allready lied about Brock Lesnar, how do I know you aren't lieing about the Buyrates?

that is not how you put over your top babyface

Really? Screwing over the babyface, into the point that the fans can't wait for him to win the match. Thats wrestling 101 dude.

...whether you think Goldberg was good or not is not the point, he was a huge draw and a major name and they could have done a helluva alot more business with him if HHH hadn't killed off his heat.

You're full of bullshit. Goldberg left on his own terms, the man was made into a huge star by Triple H. No momentum was lost whatsoever in Triple H defeating Goldberg the way he did.

Austin,Rock,Booker and Goldberg are not disgruntled ex- WWE employees, they left the company because they either retired or in Booker and Goldberg's case were sick of the bullshit.

I've never heard a bad word said about Triple H from The Rock, or Austin. Booker was a disgruntled WWE employee. He didn't like the way things were ran in the WWE, and has been pretty outspoken about that. Seeing as how Triple H helps run the WWE, hes obviously going to spout bullshit lies about the man.

...Goldberg,Rock, and Austin all are set for life and have moved on from wrestling, but they have all made reference to HHH's nepotism at one time...they are not trashing him because they are upset at being fired, I don't think they could give a fuck, they don't need the WWE, they said what they said because that is how they felt about their experience with Hunter.

Goldberg sucks, his opinion doesn't matter. He was hardly in the WWE long enough to have an opinion on Triple H.

As for the other two, I've never heard bad words about Triple H from them in my life. When you can show me the video proof of such things, I'll begin to believe you. Though.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

[/b]

A word of advise to you! Do your research before you post!

These are JR's comments on The Undertaker's Legacy:


"Taker's legacy in the WWE will be every much as significant as Andre the Giant's when all is said & done."

"The Undertaker’s WM legacy will never be equaled"

"Taker has solidly achieved “Andre status” (there is nothing higher than that) in the WWE"

"Taker has established himself as one of the top 5 all time in the WWE and may well rank with Andre as the top two based on longevity and productivity."

"As I have mentioned in the past, Taker compares very favorably to Andre in many ways. By the time Taker hangs ‘em up his legacy may even super-cede Andre’s."

"In 34 years, I have never met a wrestler who has earned the respect of more of his peers than The Undertaker"



If that doesn't sound like Taker's been of importance to the WWE then I don't know......

Sorry i know this ****** said this to me ages ago but i'm going to address it anyway.

Well done for AGAIN spurting out a load of shit that does nothing to back up what you're arguing for.

At no point in what you highlighted from my last post, did i say that Taker was not important to WWE did i? I said he was rated by JR as one of the best superheavyweights in the history of WWE, which for some reason prompted you to then go and find every bit of praise that JR's given him, thereby proving what i said in the first place, in an attempt to prove me wrong.

And i offer friendly advice so that you don't get more people raining shit on you and that's how you respond?

How is this guy still on this forum exactly?

 

[reddevil69]

No, thats part of being a heel. You get things handed to you from time to time. Its called "Cheap Heat" The people saw it as unjust, and it got Triple H massive amounts of heat, obviously serving its purpose.



That was the point of the brand split. To create compitition between the brands. It never occured the was Vince wanted it to really play out. But it SmackDown was brought in, as a show to take WcW's place of compitition. The wrestlers then were becoming "Brand Exclusive" the champion was featured on only one show. Thus, both shows needed a champion. Just as we have today.



Thats dumb. If Lesnar actually said this (Which I certainly can't find, thus think you're making it up) hes probably the biggest moron on the face of the planet.



Are you joking me? That is one of the best elimination chambers to this day. The ending was far past superb, and showed what a true heel is all about.

.

The fans absolutely ate this up. Triple H was so over as a heel it wasn't funny. Now, I'm sure I don't need to get into the physics of heel, and face, but just to be safe. The Heel's job is to make the fans hate them, and the face's job is to make the fans love them. Triple H is good at both.



Proof? Please? You allready lied about Brock Lesnar, how do I know you aren't lieing about the Buyrates?



Really? Screwing over the babyface, into the point that the fans can't wait for him to win the match. Thats wrestling 101 dude.



You're full of bullshit. Goldberg left on his own terms, the man was made into a huge star by Triple H. No momentum was lost whatsoever in Triple H defeating Goldberg the way he did.



I've never heard a bad word said about Triple H from The Rock, or Austin. Booker was a disgruntled WWE employee. He didn't like the way things were ran in the WWE, and has been pretty outspoken about that. Seeing as how Triple H helps run the WWE, hes obviously going to spout bullshit lies about the man.



Goldberg sucks, his opinion doesn't matter. He was hardly in the WWE long enough to have an opinion on Triple H.

As for the other two, I've never heard bad words about Triple H from them in my life. When you can show me the video proof of such things, I'll begin to believe you. Though.

I suggest you knock off the accusations about me lying.Ask Dave Meltzer at Wrestling Observer for proof of the buy rates. I have the info on paper, you don't so I'd shut up if I were you.

How come it's ok for you to call me a liar and take cheap shots at me, but Im not allowed to reply to your post with info I've actually read or heard.You sound like a whiny HHH mark to me, I'm sorry I insulted your hero. And as far as The Rock goes, Bret Hart has even mentioned that Rocky doesn't have much regard for HHH or HBK. How come the Rock has not disputed what Bret has said?

just because you haven't heard anything does not make me a liar...who the fuck are you that your word is gospel?

and Goldberg left after having a shitty time in the company..he has been totally critical of the booking and how his feud with Hunter played out...there is numerous sources of info on this if you look hard enough...and the fans did not eat up the finish of SS 2003, not one bit...the Wrestling observer shit on it, the feedback on the radio show was negative, the LAW shit all over it and the feedback on their show was negative,both those respective shows and publications more often than not reflect what the majority of the fans are feeling.

and the Unforgiven ppv was a dismal failure that no one watched or talks about now because they didn't care after being cheated at Summerslam...Goldberg drew money and had dollars all over him in WWE if they actually booked him properly, they didn't and it sucked...you think he's shit, so what, I'm not a big fan of his either but the guy drew money period and was a marquee name that was not used to maximum effect...and do you actually think its a coincedence that Hunter has more WWF title reigns than anyone in history? the boss' son in law has the most titles?...no not fishy at all, he's clearly never been the top merch seller or PPV draw so why is it he was always plugging up the main events for that three year period?

and Lesnar was smart enough to tell WWE to stick it and has gone on to be THE single biggest PPV draw in the world right now, and before you shoot your beak off, YES those numbers are available.

 

[Milkyway!]

I suggest you knock off the accusations about me lying.Ask Dave Meltzer at Wrestling Observer for proof of the buy rates. I have the info on paper, you don't so I'd shut up if I were you.

Oh my. Somebody on the internet is telling me to shut up. Whatever will I do? If I can't see the numbers/proof. I'm not going to believe you, and until then. You will be known as a liar.

How come it's ok for you to call me a liar and take cheap shots at me, but Im not allowed to reply to your post with info I've actually read or heard.

Because I doubt the fact that you have read or heard. You should be aware of the fact that people on the internet lie, and make up crap all the time. Everyone is a liar, until they can prove their points. I've spent HOURS opun HOURS researching the professional world, and your accusation mean nothing to me.

You sound like a whiny HHH mark to me, I'm sorry I insulted your hero.

I'm an "educatated" wrestling fan. Wrestling is my hobby. I apologize if I spend a lot of time reading about the wrestling world, and have never seen the things you're spouting. You cannot provide the proof, and you supposedly have it on paper, hundreds of miles away. I'm certainly going to believe you.

And as far as The Rock goes, Bret Hart has even mentioned that Rocky doesn't have much regard for HHH or HBK.

How would Bret Hart even know anything about The Rock? He joined the Wrestling world in late 1996, Bret Hart was allready out and on his way to WcW when The Rock's career even started. Funny.

How come the Rock has not disputed what Bret has said?

Because the Rock is a laid back guy. He doesn't give a shit.

just because you haven't heard anything does not make me a liar...who the fuck are you that your word is gospel?

All of my statements are proven with facts and information. I can point you out to everything I have stated, and the reasoning behind it. You on the otherhand simply say "You have it on paper" Why would you take it down on paper? Its easier to favorite the link and go on. Another reason I don't believe you.

and Goldberg left after having a shitty time in the company..he has been totally critical of the booking and how his feud with Hunter played out

Okay? So he wasn't happy with Triple H? Congragulations, he was jealous of a man with craptons of sucess in a job he thought he was better at. Goldberg never did anything, and sucked for the most part of his career. His year long undefeated streak was boring, and he was an accident waiting to happen. He had a shitty wrestling career, and blaims Triple H for some of his problems in the WWE..Whats your point?

...there is numerous sources of info on this if you look hard enough...and the fans did not eat up the finish of SS 2003, not one bit...the Wrestling observer shit on it, the feedback on the radio show was negative, the LAW shit all over it and the feedback on their show was negative,both those respective shows and publications more often than not reflect what the majority of the fans are feeling.

Once again, I've not seen much of this, and in talking to many of my friends they were quite happy with the Elimination Chamber in 2003. As it is/was one of the best Elimination Chambers to this date.

and the Unforgiven ppv was a dismal failure that no one watched or talks about now because they didn't care after being cheated at Summerslam.

Funny how you know this. As the buyrate for Unforgiven was never even published from the WWE.

http://100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfppvbr.htm

..Goldberg drew money and had dollars all over him in WWE if they actually booked him properly, they didn't and it sucked. ..you think he's shit, so what, I'm not a big fan of his either but the guy drew money period and was a marquee name that was not used to maximum effect...

July 7, 2003 4.2
July 14, 2003 3.8
July 21, 2003 4.2
July 28, 2003 4.2
August 4, 2003 4.0
August 11, 2003 3.9
August 18, 2003 4.0
August 25, 2003 4.2
September 1, 2003 4.3
September 8, 2003 3.6
September 22, 2003 3.6
September 29, 2003 3.4
October 6, 2003 3.4
October 13, 2003 3.6
October 20, 2003 3.7
October 27, 2003 3.4
November 3, 2003 3.4
November 10, 2003 3.7
November 17, 2003 3.6
November 24, 2003 3.6
December 1, 2003 3.7
December 8, 2003 3.8
December 15, 2003 3.5

December 29, 2003 3.7
January 5, 2004 3.5
January 12, 2004 3.6
January 19, 2004 3.3
January 26, 2004 4.0
February 2, 2004 3.7
February 9, 2004 3.8
February 16, 2004 3.8
February 23, 2004 3.9

Funny, that you say he was such a draw. Heres the ratings on RAW, before and after Goldberg was champion. The bold is when his reign started/ended. As you can see, the ratings began to go back up once Goldberg dropped the title, and they began to decline once he gained the title.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm

and do you actually think its a coincedence that Hunter has more WWF title reigns than anyone in history? the boss' son in law has the most titles?...no not fishy at all,

Not really. The times Triple H has had the title, hes deserved the title. Triple H is one of the best stars of this decade, and his sucess proves so. I gave you a link to the ratings of RAW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heavyweight_Champions_(WWE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Champions

Theres a link to the history of WHC/WWE champions. I'm much too busy to compare them right now. But when Triple H was champion, ratings were up, buyrates were up, and Triple H has deserved the title.

he's clearly never been the top merch seller or PPV draw so why is it he was always plugging up the main events for that three year period?

Triple H not a top merch seller, or PPV draw? You're joking right? Next time you watch a WWE television, take a look at peoples shirts. You will see tons of DX shirts, tons of DX glow in the dark sticks, and tons of Triple H shirts. You will see tons of Triple H signs. That man, is a draw.

and Lesnar was smart enough to tell WWE to stick it and has gone on to be THE single biggest PPV draw in the world right now, and before you shoot your beak off, YES those numbers are available.

Lesnar is having a good reign in UFC, yes. But do you really think he would be such a big deal, had he not been in the WWE first? Thats why hes such a hype. He was in wrestling first and transitioned into MMA, and is the first person to do such a thing.

 

[reddevil69]

Oh my. Somebody on the internet is telling me to shut up. Whatever will I do? If I can't see the numbers/proof. I'm not going to believe you, and until then. You will be known as a liar.



Because I doubt the fact that you have read or heard. You should be aware of the fact that people on the internet lie, and make up crap all the time. Everyone is a liar, until they can prove their points. I've spent HOURS opun HOURS researching the professional world, and your accusation mean nothing to me.



I'm an "educatated" wrestling fan. Wrestling is my hobby. I apologize if I spend a lot of time reading about the wrestling world, and have never seen the things you're spouting. You cannot provide the proof, and you supposedly have it on paper, hundreds of miles away. I'm certainly going to believe you.



How would Bret Hart even know anything about The Rock? He joined the Wrestling world in late 1996, Bret Hart was allready out and on his way to WcW when The Rock's career even started. Funny.



Because the Rock is a laid back guy. He doesn't give a shit.



All of my statements are proven with facts and information. I can point you out to everything I have stated, and the reasoning behind it. You on the otherhand simply say "You have it on paper" Why would you take it down on paper? Its easier to favorite the link and go on. Another reason I don't believe you.



Okay? So he wasn't happy with Triple H? Congragulations, he was jealous of a man with craptons of sucess in a job he thought he was better at. Goldberg never did anything, and sucked for the most part of his career. His year long undefeated streak was boring, and he was an accident waiting to happen. He had a shitty wrestling career, and blaims Triple H for some of his problems in the WWE..Whats your point?



Once again, I've not seen much of this, and in talking to many of my friends they were quite happy with the Elimination Chamber in 2003. As it is/was one of the best Elimination Chambers to this date.



Funny how you know this. As the buyrate for Unforgiven was never even published from the WWE.

http://100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfppvbr.htm



July 7, 2003 4.2
July 14, 2003 3.8
July 21, 2003 4.2
July 28, 2003 4.2
August 4, 2003 4.0
August 11, 2003 3.9
August 18, 2003 4.0
August 25, 2003 4.2
September 1, 2003 4.3
September 8, 2003 3.6
September 22, 2003 3.6
September 29, 2003 3.4
October 6, 2003 3.4
October 13, 2003 3.6
October 20, 2003 3.7
October 27, 2003 3.4
November 3, 2003 3.4
November 10, 2003 3.7
November 17, 2003 3.6
November 24, 2003 3.6
December 1, 2003 3.7
December 8, 2003 3.8
December 15, 2003 3.5

December 29, 2003 3.7
January 5, 2004 3.5
January 12, 2004 3.6
January 19, 2004 3.3
January 26, 2004 4.0
February 2, 2004 3.7
February 9, 2004 3.8
February 16, 2004 3.8
February 23, 2004 3.9

Funny, that you say he was such a draw. Heres the ratings on RAW, before and after Goldberg was champion. The bold is when his reign started/ended. As you can see, the ratings began to go back up once Goldberg dropped the title, and they began to decline once he gained the title.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm



Not really. The times Triple H has had the title, hes deserved the title. Triple H is one of the best stars of this decade, and his sucess proves so. I gave you a link to the ratings of RAW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heavyweight_Champions_(WWE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Champions

Theres a link to the history of WHC/WWE champions. I'm much too busy to compare them right now. But when Triple H was champion, ratings were up, buyrates were up, and Triple H has deserved the title.



Triple H not a top merch seller, or PPV draw? You're joking right? Next time you watch a WWE television, take a look at peoples shirts. You will see tons of DX shirts, tons of DX glow in the dark sticks, and tons of Triple H shirts. You will see tons of Triple H signs. That man, is a draw.



Lesnar is having a good reign in UFC, yes. But do you really think he would be such a big deal, had he not been in the WWE first? Thats why hes such a hype. He was in wrestling first and transitioned into MMA, and is the first person to do such a thing.

if you were as educated as you'd like everyone on this forum to believe you'd know that Bret was there for a year and a half while Rock was making his debut in dark matches and one full year from Rocks debut on TV, that is fact, its on video,it's in magazines it's on the net, it's in English, not Arabic, and I'm not making it up, dreaming it or huffing gas. ...and if you've read Bret's book you'd know that as well and Rock mentions it in his book, saying how Bret let him sit with him on road trips and took him under his wing, and how Hunter and Shawn treated him pretty badly....that tells me Bret knows plenty about the Rocks feelings....it's been said by both parties regarding HHH and HBK, and the Rock was also quoted three years ago as saying that HBK was not a big enough star for him to come out of retirement to wrestle when broached about a Mania match with him, and HBK is a bigger star than Hunter, so that tells me he doesn't think much of hunter, he worked with him back in the day because he had to do business, now he can write his own ticket and doesn't give a shit....

Hunter was HBK's little yes man for years and he went along with everything shawn did, that makes him just as guilty, and since then Shawn has found god and been reborn and is a different person, while Hunter married his way up the ladder, difference is Shawn has put over everyone in the past 7 years since returning, Hunter hardly put over anyone from 2002 until 2005, with the exception of Goldberg, who he beat in the rematch at Survivor series and Hogan and of course his pal HBK....only when Cena and Batista got the belts did business pick up because people were tired of the three year Hfest and there was finally something new and fresh to tune in too.....and just because you can't find it now doesn't mean it wasn't on the net...maybe it's been taken down since, alot of articles from six or seven years ago no longer exist on the net....Also, why don't you actually put your money where your mouth is and pay for the Wrestling Observer newsletter like I have been for the past 8 years, that's the paper I have information on and between that, the books mentioned and the huge collection of shoot DVDS that I have, I can back up everything I've said...

Dave Meltzer is the single most respected wrestling journalist there is and there is a plethora of this type of inside info in his weekly newsletters and I think he is more educated than you are and in a better position to give this type of info than you are, he has numerous contacts and insiders in the business....you are nothing but a fanboy who likes to post on the internet and it makes me sick when I see guys like you who are uninformed talk shit...I've spent my money on the newsletter and I am privy to its contents each and every week...i'm not going to electronically send you or post info for free...if you are so passionate about wrestling then shell out your own money....

and I'm well aware the WWE doesn't post buyrates, the cable companies do and the buyrate for Unforgiven 2003 was 0.58, hardly anything to brag about or an audience to put over your top babyface...and DX is not HHH, it's HBK and HHH, and it started because of HBK in 1997 and it's over because there are two of them, and Shawn is the bigger star of the two period...Taker and Shawn was the biggest match and the ones fans buzzed for the most at Mania, not Hunter's match and if it was HHH vs. Taker the hype would not have been near as big.....Hunter does not sell near as much merch on his own and that is a fact...Taker,Cena and Hardy all sell merch on their own, they don't need to ride a teams coattails in order to boost their draw. I never said Hunter wasn't a draw on his own, he's just not the biggest draw of the last decade yet he's had the belt more times than anyone and everything centered around him for far too long...if that is not nepotism then I don't know what is.

Undertaker is right now, and always has been a bigger star than Hunter, he draws more money,he's a legend and is respected by the entire locker-room and every wrestler that has passed through the doors of WWF/E in the past 19 years...he has more stroke than anyone and he doesn't plug up the title scene and headline every PPV or have 10 segments on TV every week like HHH. If anyone should have 12 or 13 title reigns it's him but he doesn't abuse his position and his ego doesn't need to be stroked in the main event all the time and have the entire RAW or Smackdown brand centered around him.

 

[Xbox360]

I have to completely disagree for a few reasons.

Undertaker is becoming better with age
Undertaker has had some of his best matches in recent years.Sure he may not be as fast or as fit as he used to be yet he still gives 110% and put on great matches.

The Undertaker Still DrawsWith hos popularity at an all time high why would there be any need to retire from a buissiness perspective.As long as he keeps bringing people into the arena's which he does there is no reason why he should retire.

LongetivityAlot of people say that taker's gimmick is just boring and old.BS takers gimmick is different to any other this is mainly because of the man behind it-Mark Callaway.This man's devotion to the undertaker and the wwe is why Undertaker is so successfull without Mark Callaway it wouldnt be the same.To me Takers gimmick is endless he can till where the same hat and roll his eyes back up into his head and people including me will still watch in awe.

So overall Mark Callway said he will retire when he can no longer perform with the best guys in the buisness is that time now? no.

 

[reddevil69]

Oh my. Somebody on the internet is telling me to shut up. Whatever will I do? If I can't see the numbers/proof. I'm not going to believe you, and until then. You will be known as a liar.



Because I doubt the fact that you have read or heard. You should be aware of the fact that people on the internet lie, and make up crap all the time. Everyone is a liar, until they can prove their points. I've spent HOURS opun HOURS researching the professional world, and your accusation mean nothing to me.



I'm an "educatated" wrestling fan. Wrestling is my hobby. I apologize if I spend a lot of time reading about the wrestling world, and have never seen the things you're spouting. You cannot provide the proof, and you supposedly have it on paper, hundreds of miles away. I'm certainly going to believe you.



How would Bret Hart even know anything about The Rock? He joined the Wrestling world in late 1996, Bret Hart was allready out and on his way to WcW when The Rock's career even started. Funny.



Because the Rock is a laid back guy. He doesn't give a shit.



All of my statements are proven with facts and information. I can point you out to everything I have stated, and the reasoning behind it. You on the otherhand simply say "You have it on paper" Why would you take it down on paper? Its easier to favorite the link and go on. Another reason I don't believe you.



Okay? So he wasn't happy with Triple H? Congragulations, he was jealous of a man with craptons of sucess in a job he thought he was better at. Goldberg never did anything, and sucked for the most part of his career. His year long undefeated streak was boring, and he was an accident waiting to happen. He had a shitty wrestling career, and blaims Triple H for some of his problems in the WWE..Whats your point?



Once again, I've not seen much of this, and in talking to many of my friends they were quite happy with the Elimination Chamber in 2003. As it is/was one of the best Elimination Chambers to this date.



Funny how you know this. As the buyrate for Unforgiven was never even published from the WWE.

http://100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfppvbr.htm



July 7, 2003 4.2
July 14, 2003 3.8
July 21, 2003 4.2
July 28, 2003 4.2
August 4, 2003 4.0
August 11, 2003 3.9
August 18, 2003 4.0
August 25, 2003 4.2
September 1, 2003 4.3
September 8, 2003 3.6
September 22, 2003 3.6
September 29, 2003 3.4
October 6, 2003 3.4
October 13, 2003 3.6
October 20, 2003 3.7
October 27, 2003 3.4
November 3, 2003 3.4
November 10, 2003 3.7
November 17, 2003 3.6
November 24, 2003 3.6
December 1, 2003 3.7
December 8, 2003 3.8
December 15, 2003 3.5

December 29, 2003 3.7
January 5, 2004 3.5
January 12, 2004 3.6
January 19, 2004 3.3
January 26, 2004 4.0
February 2, 2004 3.7
February 9, 2004 3.8
February 16, 2004 3.8
February 23, 2004 3.9

Funny, that you say he was such a draw. Heres the ratings on RAW, before and after Goldberg was champion. The bold is when his reign started/ended. As you can see, the ratings began to go back up once Goldberg dropped the title, and they began to decline once he gained the title.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm



Not really. The times Triple H has had the title, hes deserved the title. Triple H is one of the best stars of this decade, and his sucess proves so. I gave you a link to the ratings of RAW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heavyweight_Champions_(WWE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WWE_Champions

Theres a link to the history of WHC/WWE champions. I'm much too busy to compare them right now. But when Triple H was champion, ratings were up, buyrates were up, and Triple H has deserved the title.



Triple H not a top merch seller, or PPV draw? You're joking right? Next time you watch a WWE television, take a look at peoples shirts. You will see tons of DX shirts, tons of DX glow in the dark sticks, and tons of Triple H shirts. You will see tons of Triple H signs. That man, is a draw.



Lesnar is having a good reign in UFC, yes. But do you really think he would be such a big deal, had he not been in the WWE first? Thats why hes such a hype. He was in wrestling first and transitioned into MMA, and is the first person to do such a thing.

here you go smart guy, right from Stone Cold's mouth in a 2003 interview...the exact same era of HHH bullshit that I have made reference to from 2002 until 2005:

Triple H is going around saying i took my ball and went home...Here's a guy who needs to stop worrying about me -- I"m not even with the company right now. He needs to worry about his own character and drawing big money for the company. "Oh, but the business is in a down cycle." That's very convenient. In my view, he's not where he should be with the amount of TV time invested in him. So, don't worry about Stone Cold because somewhere along the line, in the transition from being a Greenwich snob to being the toughest guy ever to walk in the ring who walks down the ramp all jacked up spewing water, I missed it. And you know what? When I look back at old films from when I was gone in 2000, that was the year Triple H stepped up huge. That was the year Triple H was a hell of a hand. So knock off 25 pounds and go back to doing that and being one of the best. It's fucking simple.

there you go, proof of Austin's thoughts on HHH and that is just one example...would you like more? And Austin did not work with HHH at all after returning in 2003 so don't try and peddle that 'oh it's a kayfabe interview to set up a match' crap either.

furthermore, I saw HHH's little one man DX routine last night on RAW and it was pathetic, he looked like fool...the man cannot do comedy and HBK's presence was sorely missed...if Hunter is so over on his own, why did they need the cardboard stand up of Shawn in there? You probably think if Road Dog and Billy Gunn came back and it was just Hunter and those two that it would still be as big right?

 

[byrnside]

I realize that this is an Undertaker thread, but I've said my peace on that. This is a response to what some of you guys have been saying about Brock Lesnar. I just have to throw this out there. Lesnar is not just a draw in UFC because he was once a WWE wrestler. I think that was the big question when he first got there because wrestling is fake, etc. But since he's gotten there, he's dominated. Funny how I didn't even like him in the WWE and even resented him when he left because so many great wrestlers put him over to get him to the top and he just shit on all of them when he quit. Now I love him in UFC because he's a monster, and because he was once a WWE wrestler and has proved a lot of people wrong who thought wrestlers aren't tough because it's "scripted/fake/whatever."