TNA Semi-Finals: Monster's Ball: Randy Savage vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Triple H

[Shocky]

The following is a semi-final match in the TNA Region, from the Impact Zone in Orlando, FL.

Monster's Ball: Thank You Wiki...again

The key premise of the match was that all contenders are sequestered alone in a locked room without light, food or water for twenty-four hours before the match. This stipulation is intended to induce extreme feelings of aggression in the competitors. Once released, the wrestlers fight one another in a no disqualification match, with the usage of weapons encouraged. Victory can be achieved by pinfall or submission, with the match ending as soon as one wrestler is pinned or submits (there is no elimination format).

Macho Man Randy Savage

vs.

"Mr. Monday Night" Rob Van Dam

vs.

The Game Triple H

 

[NSL]

Game Over for RVD and Savage. RVD will be in far over his head, and will get brutalized here by both of his opponents. Savage won't be mentally able to handle this match, and will be easy pickings for HHH. While the match may be long, and brutal, there's no way either man, even working together, could beat The Game.

 

[Elijah1945]

Game Over for RVD and Savage. RVD will be in far over his head, and will get brutalized here by both of his opponents. Savage won't be mentally able to handle this match, and will be easy pickings for HHH. While the match may be long, and brutal, there's no way either man, even working together, could beat The Game.

Don't know about too over his head.

Mr. PPV has been in matches and won against a Crazed SOB in Sabu and Tommy Dreamer at his best. So Van Dam can get a little nasty with the best of them.

 

[Shocky]

Yeah, I'm not jumping on the Triple H has got this in the bag bandwagon. Just because the match tends to go violent, doesn't mean Triple H is the man to beat. Are we forgetting that RVD crushed Triple H's larynx once before? RVD can more then handle his own with Triple H in the ring.

In fact, RVD might be the best suited for the 24 hour period leading up to it. The guy is so calmed and relaxed, he'd probably go into a trance in meditation and be so damn calm coming out, it wouldn't matter.

Savage on the other hand would be a caged animal, ready to explode on whoever got in his way. The Madness would be ticking, and I think with him being as crazy as he is, that the Madness is a bonus.

I really think that Triple H is outmatched here by two guys that aren't going to be as effected by the layoff as most want to think.

 

[gd]

I think that Triple H definetly takes this here. The "Cerebral Assasin" is perfectly suited for the 24 hour stipulation, and would be planning his attack the whole time. If RVD comes out calm, he will be at a disadvantage. Savage can try to go right at HHH, but HHH's strength will be greater.

The Game has also competed in a bunch of hardcore matches on big stages and won them, so that could be at his advantage. I know RVD was big in ECW, but this is completely different.

It will be brutal, but I think HHH will take this.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Interesting match up for different reasons to last RVD/Savage affair. The day before will mean different things to different people. RVD can relax, HHH can plan and Savage... well who really knows what Savage would do. He's a little unhinged so it might be a chance to get acquainted with the voices in his head.

Savage goes crazy, RVD does the same as ever (Kick, jump, roll), while HHH will pick his moments. RVD with weapons is the interesting key for me, and to me represents the majority of RVD's true, high impact offence. Nothing personal, but the kicks don't do much for me as opposed to the spinebusters for power and damage.

To play the Devil's advocate, I'll take Savage. Why? HHH is powerful and smart, but he also bleeds easily and is sluggish compared to Van Dam. Savage doesn't have to beat both men, he just has to remove one. And that's all it takes. He's a big guy and picking off a prone wrestler. A diving Ax Handle to a HHH celebrating a Pedigree could be all it takes to incapacitate him and pin RVD.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't know about Savage in this match. Great overall wrestler but his hardcore experience...well he's just way out of his element in this match. These sorts of matches didn't exist in Savage's heyday. Only real weapons he used were the chair and the ring bell on occassion. He's never been in a match with kendo sticks, thumbtacks and barb wire baseball bats. While Savage might be his name, I've never seen him demonstrate the degree of savagry needed to come out on top in a match. Maybe he could rise to the occassion here, but I'm not holding my breath. Not with the two in there with him.

I think RVD does get underestimated in these sorts of matches because he's still a pretty boy. Doesn't have a body full of scar tissue to show how tough he is. RVD is the best all around athlete in the match and it could serve him well.

As to Triple H, I might as well be the first one to bring up his street fight and HIAC wins over Cactus Jack back in 2000. I know it's fashionable to bomb the shit out of Triple H in these boards, but you can't deny the man is tough. He went into two matches with Foley and was completely out of his element and won them both. He was bloody and exhausted, but he did it. Triple H has done well in Elimination Chamber matches, ladder matches, Last Man Standing matches, HIAC, and so on. The guy has the ruthless aggression and tenacity to win this match.

 

[ErictheEnt]

I actually think this is a great match.

I was actually thinking about RVD going into this match in great condition as he's without doubt in the best condition of the guys in this match. I think Triple H & Savage would come out complete monsters and they'd tear each other apart and probably toss RVD around a bit too.

Keep in mind, RVD can take a beating like nobody; especially if we're considering this as primed ECW RVD. RVD is faster than both of them and more technically sound. Triple H can deal out the most damage but with RVD being able to use chairs, he's going to be VERY dangerous as in the prime of his career every match pretty much involved chairs and weapons.

RVD's ability to quickly hit the 5-star Frog Splash after a big move via either Triple H or Savage on the other is a super key here.

I think this is an EXTREMELY entertaining match but I have RVD getting the 5-Star Frog Splash on Savage after Triple H hits a Pedigree on him.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

OK here's how I see it going down.

All 3 men beat the shit out of each other for a good 15 minutes with Triple H getting in a huge chunk of the offense with Savage and RVD getting their fair share in as well. RVD somehow winds up on the outside and then it's just Savage and Triple H in the ring. Triple H hits the Pedigree and goes for the pin when all of a sudden RVD hits the 5-star Frog Splash on both of them. Triple H rolls off of Savage clutching his back in pain and RVD pins Savage for the 1...2...3.

RVD would know he's not the biggest man in the ring is he would think of something like this I'm sure of it.

Vote RVD

 

[jmt225]

This match is RVD, all the fucking way, ESPECIALLY if you vote off of Kayfabe. If you vote work-rate and legacy wise, then a vote for Randy Savage is understandble, but kayfabe.... to put it simply, it would be ******ed to vote for anyone other than RVD.

Let's just look at the facts.

RVD has pinned HHH a few times in his career. They headlined Unforgiven 2002, and RVD had him beat until Flair interfered with the Sledgehammer, which would not happen here. And then you look at the time they were in the Elimination Chamber... RVD practically killed HHH, in one of my favorite moments in wrestling history. And trust me... RVD would find a way to give another Frog Splash like that to HHH's throat again.

So, in my mind, there's no reason to vote for HHH whatsoever. RVD has him beat kayfabe, and as far as I'm concerned, RVD's the much better worker between the two, anyway. So fuck HHH and no one should even consider voting for this guy, unless you’re just a mega Triple H fan.

Now, Savage... let's look at Savage. I'm a huge Randy Savage mark, but all it takes to know that RVD would beat him is to take a look at Savage’s classic against Ricky Steamboat. Savage didn't do well against that Martial Artist, and I highly doubt he would do very well against a Martial Artist who is far superior at the art form than Steamboat is, which of course is The Whole Fuckin' Show, Rob Van Dam. And then you look at Savage's "hardcore" history, and there's not much to look at. He had a great NO DQ match against Diamond Dallas Page at the Great American Bash, which he won, but as great as Page is, RVD is on a whole other level, especially in a hardcore environment. Savage also had a memorable street fight against Dennis Rodman at Road Wild 1999, and that's really it as far as Savage's "hardcore" experience goes. So, this match does not favor him whatsoever.

Again, you want to vote Savage because you believe he's the superior worker and has a better legacy, then I won't argue with you. If you want to vote for HHH because you're a fanboy of is, then fine. But no one, and I mean NO ONE, could ever make a logical argument as to why, kayfabe wise, that Rob Van Dam would ever lose this match. It's simply not possible.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

How does this not fall into Randy Savage's category on the pure logic that his life is a living Monster's Ball? Triple H might be this roid-raging power lifter, but he's still living life without any problems. He can eat whenever and whatever he wants. He can drink whenever and whatever he wants. He gets what he wants. Takes what he wants. And lives life without any worries.

Being locked up, against his will, for 24 straight hours will drive the so-called "Cerebral Assassin" insane. It's said that being locked up should add to the aggression and intensity. Fact is though, that only works if it doesn't drive you up the wall first. The Game has been living life great as the Son-in-Law of the Owner of the W.W.E (uhm, YES, that qualifies because he was also a so-called Blue Blood snob - who's never had to endure hard times, or harsh living environments) -- Being locked up for 24 straight hours will drive the Game insane, before it adds to his intensity.

On the flip side though - Randy Savage is coo coo for coco puffs 24/7, 365 days a year. The guy is a living nut job and his aggression would only get worse in a match like this.

 

[JGlass]

In fact, RVD might be the best suited for the 24 hour period leading up to it. The guy is so calmed and relaxed, he'd probably go into a trance in meditation and be so damn calm coming out, it wouldn't matter.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought of this. I was reading the general discussion for the region and someone said RVD would be in the worst shape out of the 3 after a day without food and water. The guy is super relaxed, I would not be surprised if he practices meditation, yoga, and whatever other stuff gets you through 24 hours of insanity. I have a feeling Macho Man would freak out after a couple of hours, making him even more tired before the match starts. HHH would probably feel the aggression the 24 hour's without food, water, or light is supposed to make you feel, but RVD would have the advantage of a calm mind. I think Macho Man would probably start the match by going completely ape shit with whatever he can get his hands on, but that won't be enough to put away RVD or HHH, and he'd wear himself out in the process. I think after that, it's just a battle of who can take advantage of a weakened Macho Man first, and that's when the calm relaxed mind of RVD comes against the brutal and angry HHH. Now I'm not saying HHH is going to be stupid in this match, I'm sure he'll still retain his cunning after the 24 hours, but will he be able to beat out RVD, who's going to be completely calm? I still haven't made up my mind yet.

 

[gd]

I'm not being an asshole, this is a legitimate argument, but I don't think that weed is allowed in the 24 hours before the match, so RVD wouldn't be as relaxed as you would think. I would take a focused and angry Cerebral Assasin over RVD or Randy Savage in this match any day.

They fact is, Triple H has been in many hardcore type of matches over his career, just like RVD. You can say whatever you want about intereference at Unforgiven 2002, but Triple H still won that match. Whose to say that there won't be intereference in this match, which would be completely legal.

This 24 hours stipulation favors Triple H and he would be able to match RVD in hardcore skills, so he wins this match.

 

[Tastycles]

This match is RVD, all the fucking way, ESPECIALLY if you vote off of Kayfabe. If you vote work-rate and legacy wise, then a vote for Randy Savage is understandble, but kayfabe.... to put it simply, it would be ******ed to vote for anyone other than RVD.

It absolutely wouldn't be.

Let's just look at the facts.

OK.

RVD has pinned HHH a few times in his career. They headlined Unforgiven 2002, and RVD had him beat until Flair interfered with the Sledgehammer, which would not happen here. And then you look at the time they were in the Elimination Chamber... RVD practically killed HHH, in one of my favorite moments in wrestling history. And trust me... RVD would find a way to give another Frog Splash like that to HHH's throat again.

So, your argument for why RVD is better than HHH is because he faced him at Unforgiven and lost? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure a Flair hammer shot would be legal here. NEXT! Now I believe I am 100% correct in saying that not only did RVD fail to win that match, he failed to outlast HHH, and not only did he fail to outlast HHH, but he was elimianated first, some 26 minutes before the match ended. NEXT!Then he lost to him in a Number one contenders match. Maybe he has picked up a win or two against the game, but not in an important match.

So, in my mind, there's no reason to vote for HHH whatsoever. RVD has him beat kayfabe, and as far as I'm concerned, RVD's the much better worker between the two, anyway. So fuck HHH and no one should even consider voting for this guy, unless you’re just a mega Triple H fan.

How the hell does he have him beat? I can't think of a single other feud they had ever, except for this one where HHH scored two wins and outlasted him in the multiman environment but I'm willing to accept that RVD has a few wins on Raw over him or something.

Now, Savage... let's look at Savage. I'm a huge Randy Savage mark, but all it takes to know that RVD would beat him is to take a look at Savage’s classic against Ricky Steamboat. Savage didn't do well against that Martial Artist, and I highly doubt he would do very well against a Martial Artist who is far superior at the art form than Steamboat is, which of course is The Whole Fuckin' Show, Rob Van Dam.

Firstly, you clearly don't understand why that match was significant. It was Steamboat's last chance? Why? Because Savage had owned him every which way possible until that point. It's possible that Steamboat is an inferior martial artist to RVD, I don't know. What I do know is that a martial artist type wrestler has never won a monster's ball match.

And then you look at Savage's "hardcore" history, and there's not much to look at. He had a great NO DQ match against Diamond Dallas Page at the Great American Bash, which he won, but as great as Page is, RVD is on a whole other level, especially in a hardcore environment. Savage also had a memorable street fight against Dennis Rodman at Road Wild 1999, and that's really it as far as Savage's "hardcore" experience goes. So, this match does not favor him whatsoever.

That's as far as Savage's hardcore experience goes? I think you need to have a little look at Savage's experience please. He won his first Intercontinental Title by using a steel object hidden in his wrestling gear, he was the first person in America to put someone through a table, doing so in 1984, he spent all of 1990 and 1991 knocking people out with a sceptre, including inflicting Ultimate Warrior's only defeat as a result of a weapon shot, he beat Crush in a falls count anywhere match at WrestleMania X. I'll tell you what, I've got bored of listing stuff, but you absolutely will not find a main event wrestler from the 1980s and early 90s in North America with the hardcore credentials of Randy Savage.

Again, you want to vote Savage because you believe he's the superior worker and has a better legacy, then I won't argue with you. If you want to vote for HHH because you're a fanboy of is, then fine. But no one, and I mean NO ONE, could ever make a logical argument as to why, kayfabe wise, that Rob Van Dam would ever lose this match. It's simply not possible.

Here's one for you. Rob Van Dam has never beaten a genuine career main eventer in a match that matters ever, except when Edge did it for him. Savage has beaten just about everybody from his era. Triple H has beaten RVD in their only 3 matches that mattered, there's a pretty big reason not to vote for him right there.

Then lets look at the match itself. RVD is most similar in style to Jeff Hardy and Sabu. Those two both lost a Monsters ball match to Rhyno, who is essentially a similar guy to HHH. Beer Money are similar to Savage, and they also won one. Show me a high flyer win a monsters ball, and you've got a point, but you can't because it's never happened.

I don't like HHH, but I don't care if he wins this. An RVD win would be hands down the most ridiculous result in this tournament for a million reasons. RVD shouldn't be here and he certainly shouldn't win.

There.

Now for my actual argument.

Randy Savage needs to win this match. I've already said why RVD doesn't, and I implore you to vote HHH if you are going to fall for the Savage isn't hardcore arguments, but you shouldn't.

Randy Savage has always played a mentalist, who lets his emotions take over. A Monster's Ball match is designed for mentalists, it's a perfect match up for a crazy person.

Secondly, Savage may have only fought in three or four hardcore stipulations matches, but he has won them all, something that cannot be said for RVD.

Savage has beaten just about every big name he has ever come accross in the ring, including being the only person to ever beat Ultimate Warrior without anyone laying hands on Warrior.

Savage got his chance to be world champion and took it, and wasn't even sleeping with anybody at the time, other than his missus. How is that relevant? Well in a match like this you need to take your oppurtunities, something Savage has done, RVD throws his away.

Savage has more strength than both men, as exemplified by him being able to knock Yokozuna off his feet before anyone else ever did. He also is the best worker by a million miles, the best storyteller, and he is quicker than HHH, and not much slower, if at all, than RVD.

Savage is unstoppable once he gets emotional, and that would serve him well here. Savage would win this, pinning RVD.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I'm not being an asshole, this is a legitimate argument, but I don't think that weed is allowed in the 24 hours before the match, so RVD wouldn't be as relaxed as you would think. I would take a focused and angry Cerebral Assasin over RVD or Randy Savage in this match any day.

Probably not seeing how it's Illegal but RVD is also into yoga and Meditation both of which are known to calm people down and get them focused.

I would take a calm and focused RVD over an angry and confident Game. The anger & confidence is more than likely what would cost Triple H. He would concentrate on one guy get confident and the other guy would come in and kick his ass

 

[jmt225]

Lol.... Tastyes getting a little arrogant in his posting now, huh? I like it!

So, your argument for why RVD is better than HHH is because he faced him at Unforgiven and lost?

Did you not see where I said RVD pinned him before that match took place?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure a Flair hammer shot would be legal here.

Yeah, but it wouldn't happen. This tournament happens when the wrestlers are in their prime, and HHH was in his prime in 2000 and that's not debatable. So, if anyone is going to interfere on HHH's behalf, it will be Stephanie McMahon. And I'm sure RVD or Savage wouldn't have any trouble taking that bitch out.

Now I believe I am 100% correct in saying that not only did RVD fail to win that match, he failed to outlast HHH, and not only did he fail to outlast HHH, but he was elimianated first, some 26 minutes before the match ended.

The fact is though, who was out of competition for weeks after that match... RVD or HHH? Who ended up in the hospital?

Also, let's just say fuck kayfabe for a second... that match is remembered for only two things... RVD's spots and Shawn Michaels winning. RVD only got eliminated so early because of HHH's pull, which would not happen in TNA and you know it.

Then he lost to him in a Number one contenders match.

Who was referee and how did he lose?

The fact is dude, RVD vs. HHH in TNA with Hardcore Rules... no way in hell HHH walks away the victor. At least admit that much. I can understand the Savage argument to a certain degree (though you're still wrong), but please let's take HHH out of this because the cunt doesn't stand a chance against either man, especially when the match is taking place in TNA.

Maybe he has picked up a win or two against the game, but not in an important match.

A win's a win.

And like I said, let them meet in a hardcore match, in a small 'hardcore' environment such as TNA has, and you can't sit there and tell me that HHH wins.

Firstly, you clearly don't understand why that match was significant. It was Steamboat's last chance? Why? Because Savage had owned him every which way possible until that point. It's possible that Steamboat is an inferior martial artist to RVD, I don't know.

It doesn't matter. Steamboat vs. Savage most known match is the 'Mania 3 match and Steamboat won with craftyness. And there's not a wrestler more crafty than RVD.

What I do know is that a martial artist type wrestler has never won a monster's ball match.

Has Monster's Ball ever had a wrestler/martial artist with the capabilities of Rob Van Dam? The answer is no.

That's as far as Savage's hardcore experience goes? I think you need to have a little look at Savage's experience please. He won his first Intercontinental Title by using a steel object hidden in his wrestling gear, he was the first person in America to put someone through a table, doing so in 1984, he spent all of 1990 and 1991 knocking people out with a sceptre, including inflicting Ultimate Warrior's only defeat as a result of a weapon shot, he beat Crush in a falls count anywhere match at WrestleMania X. I'll tell you what, I've got bored of listing stuff, but you absolutely will not find a main event wrestler from the 1980s and early 90s in North America with the hardcore credentials of Randy Savage.

I forgot about the shitty Wrestlemania 10 match, but good point.

But the fact remains, Savage may have used heel tactics throughout the eighties to win matches, but those tactics won't work against someone like RVD, who has seen anything there is to see, basically, when it comes to a hardcore environment. Besides, it makes Savage look like a pussy to attack someone with weapons, when the other person doesn’t have a weapon to defend himself. However, in this match, Savage’s opponents will have weapons.

Here's one for you. Rob Van Dam has never beaten a genuine career main eventer in a match that matters ever, except when Edge did it for him.

Ummm... how about when he beat Edge, defending the WWE Title? And I would say Bam Bam Bigelow was a genuine main eventer and that when RVD beat him for the ECW Television Championship, it meant A LOT.

RVD also has pinfall wins over Steve Austin, The Rock, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, Booker T, and plenty of other big names/World Champions. So, cut the shit on that one, bro.

Savage has beaten just about everybody from his era.

True.

Triple H has beaten RVD in their only 3 matches that mattered, there's a pretty big reason not to vote for him right there.

And Randy Savage never beaten Hogan when it matter... that's not the point to the argument. The point is that RVD has beaten HHH in his own backyard, and there's no doubt that if you change the scenery, RVD kills Triple H, and we both know it.

Then lets look at the match itself. RVD is most similar in style to Jeff Hardy and Sabu. Those two both lost a Monsters ball match to Rhyno, who is essentially a similar guy to HHH.

RVD is MUCH better than Jeff Hardy and Sabu, so that comparison is unfair.

Besides, if you want to compare HHH and Rhyno.... RVD has PLENTY of victories over Rhyno, so you're basically killing yourself with that argument.

Beer Money are similar to Savage, and they also won one. Show me a high flyer win a monsters ball, and you've got a point, but you can't because it's never happened.

RVD is much more than a High Flyer and he has shown that repeatedly throughout his career.

Besides, none of the other "High Flyers" that competed in Monster’s Ball compare to RVD in any way, shape or form.

An RVD win would be hands down the most ridiculous result in this tournament for a million reasons. RVD shouldn't be here and he certainly shouldn't win.

That's your opinion, and it's wrong.

Randy Savage has always played a mentalist, who lets his emotions take over. A Monster's Ball match is designed for mentalists, it's a perfect match up for a crazy person.

Not really. RVD is the one out of the three who could easily keep his composure the entire match-up and that works in his favor, more than it does someone who can't keep their head on straight.

Secondly, Savage may have only fought in three or four hardcore stipulations matches, but he has won them all, something that cannot be said for RVD.

Wow... what a ridiculous thing to say. RVD might not be undefeated in his hardcore matches, but look at how many he's participated in. His experience outweighs Savage's little undefeated streak, if that streak is actually legit (which I doubt it is; I'm sure Savage has loss a hardcore bout here and there on Nitro). Besides, while it might not be undefeated, I'm sure RVD's win-loss record is tremendous in them.

Savage got his chance to be world champion and took it, and wasn't even sleeping with anybody at the time, other than his missus. How is that relevant? Well in a match like this you need to take your oppurtunities, something Savage has done, RVD throws his away.

So getting pulled over the cops is why RVD would lose this match? Yeah... that makes perfect sense.

RVD was ECW Television Champion for 23 months. You see, ECW... Extreme Championship Wrestler. What type of environment do they wrestle in that company?

Savage has more strength than both men, as exemplified by him being able to knock Yokozuna off his feet before anyone else ever did.

HHH in 2000 was way stronger than Savage ever was, so this is just another false statement.

He also is the best worker by a million miles, the best storyteller.

Like I said in my first post, if you want to vote for Savage because of this... fine. I won't argue with you. But get rid of the kayfabe stuff, because it just hurts your case.

Savage is unstoppable once he gets emotional, and that would serve him well here.

Than how come Flair has defeated Savage so many times when getting in that emotional state of mind?

Savage would win this, pinning RVD.

And then when you come back to reality, you would find out that RVD actually won the match, by pinning Triple H.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Triple H is a bad dude. He's strong, he's a thinking man, he's calculating, cold, experienced, and he's been known to hold grudges. In the twenty-four hour period prior to this match, Triple H will be formulating a strategy. He's faced RVD on multiple occasions and knows that, when handed a chair, Rob Van Dam is a dangerous, dangerous individual. Triple H knows he isn't as fast as Rob Van Dam, he's not as creative, as good a striker, or as dangerous as Rob Van Dam. Triple H would know to steer clear of Rob Van Dam until he's made a mistake. Then, Trips would begin to think about Randy Savage. Now, remember, Randy Savage took Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley's virginity. Don't pretend that Triple H, Steph's husband, will not know this. Triple H has hours and hours to brood over that fact. It's already been touched on that Triple H will be enraged from the start, but imagine what he'll feel like after thinking for hours on end about Randy Savage in bed with his wife. He'll go out, guns blazing, and proceed to beat the hell out of a smaller, weaker Randy Savage. Of course, Savage won't roll over and play dead, he'll fight right back. Now, you have two wrestlers exhausting themselves and brutalizing each other. A calm-headed RVD will be sure to keep his distance. When the time is right and both opponents are tired and beaten, a couple of chair shots and a frog splash will wrap this one up for RVD.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I think the 24 hour isolation period is going to cost both Triple H and Savage the match. One of Hunter's biggest weapons, is his ability to get into an opponent's head, hence the nickname "The Cerebral Assassin." But, if he is locked up for a day beforehand, he won't have that chance to get that extra advantage he wants/needs. In addition, he is one of the most intense competitors we have ever seen. Like PYT said, he'll come out wanting to kick Savage's ass, and eventually wear himself out in the process.

Randy Savage is coo coo for coco puffs 24/7, 365 days a year. The guy is a living nut job and his aggression would only get worse in a match like this.

^This is the other reason why Trips will be exhausted. Macho Man is crazy, and won't just stand there and take a beating. He is well-versed, for a star of the '80s, in weapon usage and will bring the fight to either of his opponents. His downfall will be a combo of exhaustion, and the fact that HHH and RVD can do things with weapons that he could only dream about.

This brings us to RVD. He has an advantage right off the start, in that he isn't as intense as the other two. While they probably will have spent their day dreaming of ways to kill their opponents, RVD will remain calm, relaxed, and focused. Because of this, he will be the smartest wrestler in the match. Savage and Triple H can beat the hell out of each other, while RVD picks his spots to intervene. He also is the best at using weapons out of the 3. So when Trips and Macho are about to pass out from trying to kill each other, he can come in with a chair and finish them off with any of his chair moves, followed by a 5 Star for the 1,2,3.

 

[ZEUS]

I am leaning towards the Macho Man. This match is designed to bring out the aggression in the wrestlers. Macho Man is probably the most intense wrestler ever, and he would come out and destroy both of his opponents. Sure he hasn't had the "hardcore" experience that the other two have, but Savage has always been a good brawler and has never been opposed to weaponry. I don't see how swinging a weapon can be increased through more experience anyway. I am strongly leaning towards Savage, as the Macho Madness would be just too much for "Mr. Monday Night" or "The Game/Cerebral Assasin".

HHH has a chance, because, well, he is that good. He can fight, he can wrestle, and he can do both better than most. RVD on the other hand, is the longshot here. Yes, he came from ECW and rarely lost there, but in WWE, he was essentially a career upper mid carder. And he lost his matches because he made stupid mistakes. Stupid mistakes will kill you in this match, and that is why not only will RVD lose, he will definetely be the one to be pinned. To me, its about deciding between Savage and Hunter.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The object of this match is to see who can handle stress and adversity during a match. I think that as mellow as RVD is, Mr. Monday Night won't be able to handle no weed for 24 hours. Triple H would need water in a 24 hour period. I mean, the man comes to the ring with a water bottle in hand about every match the past 10 years.

This is up Savage's alley. He'd just be pissed off and come out and start fucking people up. Savage is sadistic and not giving him what he wants for 24 hours will be like unleashing a starving Cheetah in a Meerkat farm. It won't be pretty, and Macho Madness will reign supreme. OOOOOOHHHH YEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!

 

[RVDgurl]

I think this type of match is a great draw for RVD. A hardcore environment with no DQ's. Experience has to lend RVD a great advantage here. I'm sure it had to have happened at some point, but I certainly can't recall Randy Savage ever being in a match like this or even a hardcore environment at all. Trips does have alot of experience with his sledgehammer, but he's going to have to be a little more creative than that if he is going to win this match.

This match puts RVD in his element where he would be at his best. He would be able to use some of his signature ECW moves such as the Van Daminator and the Van Terminator, giving him another dimension in his game.

Do the right thing, people, put RVD through to the next round!!!

 

[tehblogger]

hm, fascinating. I'm leaning towards RVD, as the TNA ring suits his style better AND he has serious experience with weapons, which Savage doesn't. I can't see him winning here.

That said, Triple H is one smart fucker and has excellent hardcore experience. The odds would be stacked against him, with both RVD and Savage flying off the ropes, but he could find some way to overcome them. Not sure the 24 hour time-out beforehand really suits anyone. If this were a one-on-one match it would probably suit Savage, as he would come out PUMPED, but in a Triple Threat? The other guy will always break up any early pinfall attempts. RVD? Can't see it bothering him. Triple H? He'll just be doing his usual planning in a locked room.

Leaning towards RVD, but Triple H fans still have a chance to persuade me otherwise.

 

[SavageTaker]

I'm picking Randy "The Macho Man" Savage to win this match. After the 24-hours have passed he will be ready to take out whoever the hell he wants. He is sadistic and he can be crazy which is his advantage here. Which is why the 24-hour stipulation works for him better than it does for Triple H or Rob Van Dam. He is already sadistic and crazy as it is imagine how much crazier and sadistic he will get. I'll answer that for you: He will get a lot crazier and a lot more sadistic. It will be very easy for him to inflict as much damage as he possibly can and he too has some experience in hardcore bouts. He fought DDP in 3 different hardcore matches or gimmick matches that can get hardcore. He has also fought other men in hardcore matches so he isn't to much out of his elements.

Also the 6-sided ring also suits his style and if I do remember correctly he does have some experience in the TNA ring so he wouldn't need to waist any time trying to get accustomed to the ring while Triple H and RVD would feel out of place because they have never worked in a match in a ring with 6 sides.

 

[Tastycles]

Lol.... Tastyes getting a little arrogant in his posting now, huh? I like it!

Really? I don't see it, I've never changed, baby.

Did you not see where I said RVD pinned him before that match took place?

Yes, but he lost to him subsequently, more times in more significant scenarios. Not to mention the fact that it proves conclusively that RVD doesn't have HHH's number whatsoever.

Yeah, but it wouldn't happen. This tournament happens when the wrestlers are in their prime, and HHH was in his prime in 2000 and that's not debatable. So, if anyone is going to interfere on HHH's behalf, it will be Stephanie McMahon. And I'm sure RVD or Savage wouldn't have any trouble taking that bitch out.

You know who was around HHH in 2000 as well as Stephanie? D-Generation X. They were, as I recall, a pretty big deal.

The fact is though, who was out of competition for weeks after that match... RVD or HHH? Who ended up in the hospital?

Who was eliminated by a missile dropkick?

Also, let's just say fuck kayfabe for a second... that match is remembered for only two things... RVD's spots and Shawn Michaels winning. RVD only got eliminated so early because of HHH's pull, which would not happen in TNA and you know it.

Ok, if we're fucking kayfabe, lets look at who's been the number one guy in a promotion ever. It's two of the people in this match, and it wasn't RVD, who wasn't even trusted to carry ECW.

Who was referee and how did he lose?

To paraphrase you, a loss is a loss.

The fact is dude, RVD vs. HHH in TNA with Hardcore Rules... no way in hell HHH walks away the victor. At least admit that much. I can understand the Savage argument to a certain degree (though you're still wrong), but please let's take HHH out of this because the cunt doesn't stand a chance against either man, especially when the match is taking place in TNA.

If we take prime HHH, which was 2000, before he married Steph, then there isn't a promotion in the world who would put RVD over him. On the one hand you have a solid all rounder who has rubbed shoulders with the greats, on the other hand you have a spot monkey.

A win's a win.

A loss is a loss. and RVD has plenty.

And like I said, let them meet in a hardcore match, in a small 'hardcore' environment such as TNA has, and you can't sit there and tell me that HHH wins.

HHH has beaten Mick Foley in hardcore environments twice. Foley is a damn site lot stronger in hardcore environments than RVD ever was.

It doesn't matter. Steamboat vs. Savage most known match is the 'Mania 3 match and Steamboat won with craftyness. And there's not a wrestler more crafty than RVD.

If the final match is all that matters, then it completely negates your point about RVD beating HHH. It is completely hypocritical.

Has Monster's Ball ever had a wrestler/martial artist with the capabilities of Rob Van Dam? The answer is no.

Has a monsters ball ever had a wrestler like Savage? No. You can't know how they'd do.

I forgot about the shitty Wrestlemania 10 match, but good point.

It was, wasn't it. I typed that, and then thought about arrogance.

But the fact remains, Savage may have used heel tactics throughout the eighties to win matches, but those tactics won't work against someone like RVD, who has seen anything there is to see, basically, when it comes to a hardcore environment. Besides, it makes Savage look like a pussy to attack someone with weapons, when the other person doesn’t have a weapon to defend himself. However, in this match, Savage’s opponents will have weapons.

If RVD has seen all there is to see, he certainly didn't show it when losing a torrent of gimmick matches in WWE. Savage may have only used weapons because he was a heel, but you can't argue that he hasn't ever used them like everyone has done.

The factor Savage has over the other two here is his stamina and resiliance. He has had more longer matches than both of them, and has submitted once ever. That is the same amount of times as the Undertaker. It doesn't take a genius to work out that means he can take a shit load of pain.

Ummm... how about when he beat Edge, defending the WWE Title? And I would say Bam Bam Bigelow was a genuine main eventer and that when RVD beat him for the ECW Television Championship, it meant A LOT.

Yes it meant a lot when Sabu beat up Bam Bam Bigelow for RVD. It also meant a lot when he beat Edge then lost to him two weeks later. Well done.

RVD also has pinfall wins over Steve Austin, The Rock, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, Booker T, and plenty of other big names/World Champions. So, cut the shit on that one, bro.

But at what points in their careers? Not a single one of those victories came in those wrestlers primes, with the possible exception of Jericho. Savage has beaten Flair, Hart, Steamboat, Ultimate Warrior, Ted DiBiase all in their primes. I'd take that list any day, wouldn't you?

And Randy Savage never beaten Hogan when it matter... that's not the point to the argument. The point is that RVD has beaten HHH in his own backyard, and there's no doubt that if you change the scenery, RVD kills Triple H, and we both know it.

Now who's being arrogant? I don't know that, because it isn't true. Literally the entire duration of RVD's career until ECW was reborn was on the mid card? Why? Because he wasn't as good as HHH, who was the top guy on that brand. They give him the title to promote ECW for three weeks, then he fucks up and is never anywhere near it again.

Savage may not have beaten Hogan when it mattered, but it doesn't matter because Hulk Hogan isn't in this match.

RVD is MUCH better than Jeff Hardy and Sabu, so that comparison is unfair.

How is he? If we're talking working, then Hardy is better than him. Hardy can sell injuries, for example. If we're talking accomplishments, Hardy's are at worst the same as RVD. If we're talking how many flips you can do, then RVD is the best, but I've never seen a wrestler win based on flips. Those two guys are far and away the most similar wrestlers to RVD.

Besides, if you want to compare HHH and Rhyno.... RVD has PLENTY of victories over Rhyno, so you're basically killing yourself with that argument.

Savage has plenty of wins over martial artists. Not to mention the fact that Rhyno has plenty of wins over RVD too, and the fact that I said similar. Rhyno is similar but worse than HHH, RVD is similar but the same as Jeff Hardy.

RVD is much more than a High Flyer and he has shown that repeatedly throughout his career.

Really? Like what? Has he ever had Mat wrestling classics? No. Has he ever used master tactics? no. Has he ever used power moves? No. Savage has done all of those things.

Besides, none of the other "High Flyers" that competed in Monster’s Ball compare to RVD in any way, shape or form.

What has RVD done that Jeff Hardy hasn't?

That's your opinion, and it's wrong.

It is my opinion, but it's right.

Not really. RVD is the one out of the three who could easily keep his composure the entire match-up and that works in his favor, more than it does someone who can't keep their head on straight.

Yeah, because this match just fucking screams compsure doesn't it.

Wow... what a ridiculous thing to say. RVD might not be undefeated in his hardcore matches, but look at how many he's participated in. His experience outweighs Savage's little undefeated streak, if that streak is actually legit (which I doubt it is; I'm sure Savage has loss a hardcore bout here and there on Nitro). Besides, while it might not be undefeated, I'm sure RVD's win-loss record is tremendous in them.

It was cheap, admittedly. However, the weapons aspect of this match is being played up too much anyway. Monster's Ball matches have weapons because Abyss brings them to the ring. He's not in this match, so he won't bring them. If RVD wants weapons he's going to have to go and get them, which seriously exposes him.

So getting pulled over the cops is why RVD would lose this match? Yeah... that makes perfect sense.

No, squandering oppurtunities is. RVD has squandered several by not being very good at what he does. He could have come out of the Invasion as a legitimate heel, but he was too shit at working the crowd to do it.

RVD was ECW Television Champion for 23 months. You see, ECW... Extreme Championship Wrestler. What type of environment do they wrestle in that company?

Name one person he fought that holds a candle to either of his opponents during that reign. I'd take holding the WWF Championship for one year like Savage did over holding a midcard indy title for two.

HHH in 2000 was way stronger than Savage ever was, so this is just another false statement.

Really? People say that about HHH, but can you think of an impressive feat of strength he did then? He had the look of strength, but I've never seen him powerslam anyone the way Savage used to.

Like I said in my first post, if you want to vote for Savage because of this... fine. I won't argue with you. But get rid of the kayfabe stuff, because it just hurts your case.

No it doesn't. Kayfabe, I can think of a million reasons why HHH should win this, I can think of more reasons for Savage. The reasons to vote RVD are piss poor.

Than how come Flair has defeated Savage so many times when getting in that emotional state of mind?

Dunno, probably the same reason he defeated Flair more times. And the same reason he wiped the floor with Jake Roberts.

And then when you come back to reality, you would find out that RVD actually won the match, by pinning Triple H.

RVD wouldn't win this match in a million years. He is against somebody who has beaten him many times. That is bad. This is a match between HHH and Savage, because we have seen in reality that RVD isn't as good as HHH.

I think this type of match is a great draw for RVD. A hardcore environment with no DQ's. Experience has to lend RVD a great advantage here. I'm sure it had to have happened at some point, but I certainly can't recall Randy Savage ever being in a match like this or even a hardcore environment at all. Trips does have alot of experience with his sledgehammer, but he's going to have to be a little more creative than that if he is going to win this match.

Randy Savage has had plenty of hardcorematches and won them all, to my knowledge at least. HHH has won just about every sort of hardcore match there is against just about all kinds of opponents.

This match puts RVD in his element where he would be at his best. He would be able to use some of his signature ECW moves such as the Van Daminator and the Van Terminator, giving him another dimension in his game.

RVD is out of his element here. Not because of the match, but because of his opponents. In wrestling, the only time a wrestler beats someone who is perceived better is when the match is so in their favour it is untrue, or by a roll up. You don't win triple threat matches with a roll up, and RVD has no history in this match. That in itself guarantees that he wouldn't win.

Do the right thing, people, put RVD through to the next round!!!

Absolutely don't vote RVD if you want to do the right thing. Vote Savage, or HHH if you must vote for someone else.

I think the 24 hour isolation period is going to cost both Triple H and Savage the match. One of Hunter's biggest weapons, is his ability to get into an opponent's head, hence the nickname "The Cerebral Assassin."

Definitely true, I hadn't thought of this.

But, if he is locked up for a day beforehand, he won't have that chance to get that extra advantage he wants/needs. In addition, he is one of the most intense competitors we have ever seen. Like PYT said, he'll come out wanting to kick Savage's ass, and eventually wear himself out in the process.

Not sure about this, but it would put HHH on the backburner.

^This is the other reason why Trips will be exhausted. Macho Man is crazy, and won't just stand there and take a beating. He is well-versed, for a star of the '80s, in weapon usage and will bring the fight to either of his opponents. His downfall will be a combo of exhaustion, and the fact that HHH and RVD can do things with weapons that he could only dream about.

Dunno about this, Savage is extremly high in the stamina department.

This brings us to RVD. He has an advantage right off the start, in that he isn't as intense as the other two. While they probably will have spent their day dreaming of ways to kill their opponents, RVD will remain calm, relaxed, and focused. Because of this, he will be the smartest wrestler in the match. Savage and Triple H can beat the hell out of each other, while RVD picks his spots to intervene. He also is the best at using weapons out of the 3. So when Trips and Macho are about to pass out from trying to kill each other, he can come in with a chair and finish them off with any of his chair moves, followed by a 5 Star for the 1,2,3.

Being intense is a pretty essential trait in a match designed to promote intensity, I reckon. RVD is far and away the worst ring psychologist in this match, and there is nothing that can be said to the contrary of that. He wouldn't be able to pick his spots anything like as good as the other two.

Triple H is a bad dude. He's strong, he's a thinking man, he's calculating, cold, experienced, and he's been known to hold grudges. In the twenty-four hour period prior to this match, Triple H will be formulating a strategy. He's faced RVD on multiple occasions and knows that, when handed a chair, Rob Van Dam is a dangerous, dangerous individual.

When handed a sledgehammer, HHH is a dangerous individual. When handed a sceptre, Randy Savage is a dangerous individual. It's all cancels out.

Triple H knows he isn't as fast as Rob Van Dam, he's not as creative, as good a striker, or as dangerous as Rob Van Dam.

He's not as fast. Everything else is wrong.

Triple H would know to steer clear of Rob Van Dam until he's made a mistake.

Which, given Rob Van Dam's track record would be somwhere in the vicinity of 5 seconds into the match.

Then, Trips would begin to think about Randy Savage. Now, remember, Randy Savage took Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley's virginity. Don't pretend that Triple H, Steph's husband, will not know this. Triple H has hours and hours to brood over that fact.

It's already been touched on that Triple H will be enraged from the start, but imagine what he'll feel like after thinking for hours on end about Randy Savage in bed with his wife. He'll go out, guns blazing, and proceed to beat the hell out of a smaller, weaker Randy Savage. [/quote]

Randy Savage is 6'2" and 237lbs. HHH is 6'4" and 255. It is hardly a smaller weaker wrestler to be honest. Savage has never been beaten up in his life.

Of course, Savage won't roll over and play dead, he'll fight right back. Now, you have two wrestlers exhausting themselves and brutalizing each other. A calm-headed RVD will be sure to keep his distance. When the time is right and both opponents are tired and beaten, a couple of chair shots and a frog splash will wrap this one up for RVD.

RVD is not some sort of cold calculating assassin, the quicker people realise this, then this ******ed argument can be put to bed.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I'm not necessarily saying that RVD is an amazing ring psychologist, Tasty. Hell, I'm not even saying that he's that smart of a wrestler. But you cannot deny the fact that Triple H is going to want to kill Macho and it doesn't take a genius to know to avoid that, or just use hit and run attacks. I'm not saying that RVD is a ring general, I'm just saying that he has enough common sense to let his opponents beat the shit out of each other until he can sneak in and pin one of them.