The State of WZCW Address

[Harthan]

For now, I'm too hungover to fully process this, but I'll make a few relevant points, I suppose.

Criticism

By all means, be more critical. But you'd be surprised at the amount of internal criticism that occurs as we move through the creative process. It's not all of us sitting around telling each other our shit is great, we address relevant problems on our own. I'm sure the more criticism we got, the better it'd come out in the end, but as it stands I don't believe there are glaring holes in the product generated by lack of criticism.

I don't really agree that anyone not on your short list is "contributing suck", either. I understand why you wrote that, and don't think you really mean it like that, but still. Not everyone is interested in criticizing every show and RP. Some people just want to show up and do their character. Everest is a name that comes to mind. And a brilliant RPer like Ech who also does good feedback when he does do it is very much contributing positively to the fed.

Blade

Can't speak on it since we never co-existed on creative, but I worry you're letting your personal feelings obfuscate the truth. Even without any WZCW incidents, it's clear who you prefer between Blade and Coco. Blade deserves thanks for, at the bare minimum, putting in the time and effort on creative. Reading every RP every round, deciding a winner, writing matches, and participating in the overall planning process is nearly a part-time job in and of itself.

Deadlines

I think those that have been around for a few rounds understand that, with seven people leading seven lives in different time zones, there isn't really a "deadline" on shows other than vaguely the weekend. As long as that's kept in mind I think people shouldn't be disappointed.

Favoritism

Hey, wait, can I get in on this? Where's my politicking-based uber-push, huh?

Kidding aside, your criticism of Falkon goes too far, JGlass. I understand you structure arguments with the intent of making people uncomfortable, but this is too much. Falkon's RPs on the road to Kingdom Come have all been top notch and worthy of a world champion. You're entirely entitled to your opinion that they aren't that great, but seven people deciding that they're worth a championship isn't a conspiracy, it's just creative's collective opinion. I can personally tell you with all honesty that there's never been any sort of politicking to keep the belt on Kurtesy in my time on creative. He just gets the votes when he needs them, like everyone else.

Dave won his right to make the poster by a vote of creative. It was a multi-way tie that I broke because I liked Dave's work and knew he was reliable, not because he was on creative. And hey, I wasn't on the poster, man. How does that factor into your creative favoritism argument? People got on the poster because they were important to KC.

Regarding Holmes/Dave vs Sabs/Sax, I think to claim that Sax/Sabs had a better feud than Holmes/Dave is just a bit absurd. You're two midcarders with a self-constructed feud that is more tongue-in-cheek than anything. It's amusing, but Holmes/Dave is powerful. Sab/Sax was good, but not better than the Holmes/Dave epic. It deserved everything it got, and so did Sax/Sabs.

Creative "Transparency"

I can explain to you now why anyone loses in WZCW. A majority of creative voted against you. There you go. It wouldn't be possible to send one PM explaining every creative members motive for doing so - it would require one from everyone to explain it, making this proposal an even more monumental task. It's just not feasible with the current workload.

If you're interested in what makes me want to vote for your piece, it's generally being interesting and developing your character, while incorporating the specific circumstances as best as possible, i.e. addressing your opponent. I don't really mind any particular style. I think on Aftershock a Q&A RP can get you places, and I've seen them done creatively. But I generally lean toward interesting character development. I'd say the pinnacle of RPs at KC for me were Showtime's two pieces. That's a great standard to aspire to.

Overall JGlass, I think you make fair points and I appreciate someone keeping us honest. But I think there's a bit of self-aggrandizing here and no little amount of undue criticism, especially of Falkon. Your thoughts are well-appreciated and considered, but I'd think more highly of them without attacking people who don't deserve it.

 

[Harthan]

Oh, and as far as show criticisms go, I wish more people would do them. If the really harsh feedbackers were to say something about the shows now and again, it'd be nice. Or at least my work. I promise I won't be a dick about it. I'm probably more invested in writing matches than anything else these days, so getting better is a goal.

 

[TBK]

I know my opinion means jack and shit considering how long I'm here and I'm way too tired, so I'll look back on this and this will look like shit, but I feel like sharing my two cents on this thread, regardless.

I can't ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hard enough the push yourself. I've had plans since day 1 of joining, I've given only a basic suggestion at the moment, but I have a few more complicated ones that stem from that and while creative has complete say in the end, I'm going to look towards making my plans a reality. I'd say feel free to ask people if you're looking for help of what to do with your character. Doc and I do it to each other all the time.

>This is why I’m calling for a more open door policy with the way creative decides on matches. We don’t need to know who is voting for what and why, but I think it would be beneficial for everyone if creative sent a private message to each RP’er to let them know why they won/lost their match. It doesn’t have to be more than two or three sentences, and if you divide the matches up evenly between creative members, it wouldn’t take long at all, especially considering you already deliberated on it in the creative boardroom.

This is a terrific idea in theory, but it feels like this should be more of a once in a while thing than a weekly thing. A lot of the problems I've seen seem to be long term. What's the point to sounding a broken record if they're going to ignore it anyways? Just send it out every once in a while rather than weekly. About everyone would benefit for a basic summary of ways they can improve on.

 

[Shotaro]

You missed the point. The point is by staying silent about your issues, you are harming WZCW. Obviously not everything that everyone not mentioned does is adding suck to WZCW, just the fact that most people censor themselves.

I fear I may be guilty of this to some extent, however I will also say that I mentioned that the tag title match had had little to no build, I know that Yazloz and Pancake both spoke to Creative about this whilst I posted in the discussion thread - either way the Aftershock pre-show focused on building up the TLC match, and had a PPV style pre-match segment which I was happy with. While I understand your point, there are ways to go about doing things. The squeaky wheel may indeed get the grease, but it gets it because it's pissed people off, not because people want to fix it for it's sake.

I understand where you are coming from though and I agree, our methods may differ but that's about it.

On XBL I talk to Pancake and Yazloz fairly often, we will bitch and have a moan about certain things, but unless we're properly raging about something or we all agree on a certain point we wouldn't bring it up (though mostly that was a result of the fact that we were all involved in the same match at KC.) going forward I'm sure if me and Mikey are unhappy with how strikeforce is being used we will say something.

As far as Blade leaving, my only real interaction with him was when he gave me feedback, I was aware of his character but I wasn't invested. I agree with Harthan though in that the amount of work involved with being on creative made his departure worthy of thanks.

I know that you have read some of my RPs glass (because we were in a match together) and I'd been interested to see what you think of my guy. There are elements of him being a Mary Sue (his name his James, he's British) but other than that I am far from being an MMA fighter with anger issues.

You're kidding me, right? This coming from the guy that stayed up until the crack of dawn waiting for the show? You're going to come with the, "get a life" argument?

It appears I need to change my pants. I just pissed myself.

I stayed up to readit as well, it was uh, pretty late by the time Ty posted the show wasnt ready but to be honest I was playing BF3 until then anyway, hitting refresh on my iPad periodically to see if it had been posted.

The kind that gives the slight advantage or perk to those in held in high regard? I'm not calling for some big conspiracy, I'm saying it exists to a small degree.

I can understand where you are coming from, upon first joining the fed a few months ago three of the five titles were held by a creative member.
WHC - Falkon
Elite X - FunKay
Tag - Numbers (and Pancake)
I'm not complaining about that, I'm simply stating it as a fact that merited or not it is easy for people to become jaded when they see that, especially when you consider that most of the guys hovering around the World Title are also in creative (Showtime, Ty, Dave).

Having now been here for a few months do I think that there is some kind of "advantage" to being on creative? Possibly, but not so much that it's impossible to see past. Showtime, Ty and FalKon are in the World title picture because they've been here for a long time, they're consistent and good RPers and they've earnt their spot on the card, the same is true of Numbers (who took a massive step down with his character for the tag title scene), Dave (Who I didn't think should've win KFAD, but my choice was Harthan anyway so it would still have been a member of creative), FunKay and Harthan. Hell, that's why they got asked to be on creative in the first place.

See, this is why you're one of the people contributing suck to WZCW. I made a few simple observations that were totally harmless, and you're making it seem like these things keep me up at night. There were two observations I made of ways creative gets a little extra something that regulars don't.

I'm not complaining. I'm trying to improve things. Isn't that the goal here?

I agree, if we can have a rational and reasoned discussion about the fed in general it can ONLY get better. I don't mean everyone raging about their win:loss ratio, I mean people investing a bit of thought into feuds and contacting creative with ideas, (lets face it some people spend a massive amount of time on their RPs - it surely cant be that hard to take ten minutes to PM creative) At thesame time however it can't all be on us and having an idea of what creative has in mind for us would be really appreciated too.

The only problem I have with you is the same problem I have with anyone who has come in here crying foul. Your minds are closed. I'm not here to complain, and if WZCW never changed, it would still be a lot of fun. But it can be better. That's why I posted this thread: not to antagonize, not to patronize, but to encourage.

Unfortunately glass, I think some people may have taken umbridge with specific portions of your OP rather than looking at what it meant as a whole and considering its intent. I hope you're not offended if I say that you can be abrasive sometimes, but that you do that to get your point across. (it's easier to be a dick and get your point heard than it is to be nice about it an winning by attrition) I get that, it gets things done. The intent of your original post was what sold me on it and you are right, there are fifty guys in WZCW, and seven guys trying to write every match, feud and storyline, we need to get involved with our characters and how they are booked into feuds, we need to ask what we did wrong when we lose, then the fed will become better than it is already.

Oh and as a side note, I agree with pretty much everyone else, the feedback system is bullshit with guys on the undercard offering advice to guys on the undercard, the most valuable pieces of feedback I have were from my first RP (in which I pestered damn near everyone I could for feedback and got responses from Blade, Dave and others) and my KC feedback (In which I got feedback from a couple of members of creative and Gelgarin - whilst I didn't agree with all of the feedback I got, there was always something to take on board, whether that was length or over-reliance on colouring.)

I am not a professional writer. I understand how to use grammar in a practical sense and I think I'm good at writing dialogue. I also look at formatting too and try to offer constructive help where I can, but I don't know what it takes to get higher on the card. The only people's RPs I've read that are anything like mine are Yazloz and Gelgarin, but even then stylistically they're very different. In reality the guys holding the belts are the guys who should be giving feedback since they're the guys at the top. Want advice on how to get elevated to the mid-card and be competitive with guys like Triple X or Black Dragon? Want to know about managing a tag team? PM the champs or their challengers asking for feedback, some guys don't do much feedback but are great RPers and it's a shame. In that thread I half-ass it to an extent because I don't want to be overly harsh and upset people. People have PMed in the past for feedback and I am much more critical, I scour their RP then because they've asked me specifically for feedback. PMing people encourages them to go that little bit further for you.

Goddamn that is a long post...

 

[Richard Blonoff]

The biggest thing I wanted to address is feedback. When I first started a few months back I was very gun-ho about wanting to give feedback. I enjoy being a part of the fed and want to help anyway I can and at that point that seemed my best bet. It quickly became evident however that since I'm not on creative all I can do is tell you what I liked and disliked about your RP. I realized that often times I would pick who I thought would win and was wrong. Take KC for instance, I have told Dave time and time again he is a fantastic match writer. I feel like Constantine however is a bit of a dull character. Turns out my opinion isn't that correct as he holds a win over me and he just won KFAD.

Another issue that quickly came up in feedback is the repetitiveness of it. How many times can I tell Pancake that he wrote a good RP to win but he didn't really tell a great story? I don't need to gain a post to tell him that anymore. Even if I did I talk to him almost daily so I can say it there. Some guys send me their RPs in PMs and I give it to them there, and I'm fine with that. If you want feedback all you have to do is ask, but there are certain guys I don't like giving feedback to because you can give them ten bits of criticism and one compliment and they latch onto the one compliment and ignore the negatives.

One other thing that I feel causes conflict is finding the balance between writing a good story and writing a winning RP. Perfect example in my eyes, was back when Strikeforce took on SaxtonSabo. I've told JGlass numerous times I enjoy his writing, but that week he and Doc(who I love reading as well) wrote good stories but Doc didn't make a single mention of Strikeforce in his RP, and J made it in passing. I like to think that Shotaro and I write entertaining RPs but that week I can totally see why we won. They focused almost solely on writing an entertaining story, we had a balance between story and promo.

As far as the favoritism towards creative, its something that I have had conversations about with a few of the guys I talk to outside the forums. We all agree that creative is in a tough spot, you probably naturally want to vote for your fellow members or give preference to guys who have been around longer, but my short career I feel like I have proven that theory otherwise. Just look at my record.

One last thing I feel like I can offer, don't be afraid to not take your character too seriously. Look at Stormrage, he is a fat nerd who is constantly on the end of jokes, was afraid of climbing a ladder, and is generally a giant airhead. I've taken that all the way to the tag team titles. I was afraid I wouldn't be taken seriously but I have gotten a shit ton of positive feedback from people who say they love what I do with the character. Just write to your strengths.

And seriously don't be afraid to ask people. I PMed Ty once and I was afraid to ask him to clear something up for me, but he was very cordial and aside from the one time he forced me to clean his office I have never had any problems with him. He seems intimidating because of his presence but he is no different than the rest of us. I have had FunKay, Kermit, Ech, Harth, Dave, all guys who are very well respected give me solid advice because I sought it out. I know that I don't have the name value others do but in my short time here I am 4-2 and co-tag team champion so I must be doing something right, and I'm typically always available to offer advice.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

I was going to PM you but I think I'd rather clear up a few things out in the open here:

Agreed on the whole sit back approach that a lot of guys around here are taking. It's nice to hear that almost everyone appreciates your work when it comes to being on creative as everyone says "Great MD" or "excellent work creative" but if we keep getting that response, we aren't going to change our methods. We may add some spice but how can we improve as a writing team if someone doesn't speak out? Also, by everyone holding in all their thoughts about the fed, people like JGlass and Coco will be inclined to make these sorts of threads. It's not that I don't mind the content but the fact that it hits so hard and so fast can offend people. I was a little pissed at first glance but I read through a second time and I can definitely see where JGlass is coming from concerning my RP's but this is where another problem arises under a similar message. When was the last time anyone gave me feedback for an RP? Considering no-one gives me feedback, I guess that means I'm doing something right... and considering that I am currently the World champion in my eyes, I'm doing something right. This leads me to a new point.

In no way, shape or form is there any sort of creative clout. We are a devoted team that works together from different continents of the globe to help make this a fun experience for everyone. The day we start abusing our authority and making sure everyone on creative is at the top of list, holding all the championships is the day the fun and excitement is lost. None of us want that and we've all been a non-creative member at some point, so we know what it's like for you guys. Blade has never politicked, I've never done anything to further advance my own career and the rest of creative hasn't done anything like that neither... and all of us vote on which RP is the best for every match and not done for storyline purposes unless it is an extreme circumstance where everyone involved has been informed in advance. JGlass knows about this with his tag team match alongside Saxton.

On the personal notes, the intentions for me were never to gain a World title shot. My first HIAC match was never meant to involve me as I was supposed to take on the Killjoy in a 6-Man Captain Fall Tag Team Mayhem Rules match for the Mayhem title, along with the Crashin Movement, Gordito and Chris Jones. The second HIAC match was myself beating two other guys where the card design I had no part of discussing. Hell, the Roulette rounds where just me drawing the jackpot and I did my best to seize the opportunity. If it turned out any different, my first taste at the World title would have been probably post-KCIV as I was planned to be fighting alongside Celeste on Team WZCW... but it was not meant to be. I can understand that some people don't think I'm a good RPer as everyone has their own opinions and yes, like everyone, I will lose the title to somebody eventually but I can honestly say that I don't care what others think. I'm here to have fun in a fantasy wrestling company, something that I've always been intrigued about (i.e. Book This! stuff) and if I'm having fun: that's what matters most. I love to RP and if people along the way want to give me feedback, I will take that information and use that to better myself. I encourage people to give each other feedback as it allows people to grow. As I said before, if I don't get any negative FB then I will assume I'm doing something right... and even with this negative FB, I'm still unsure as what it means. All I've read is that I'm not fancied by some people. If you're going to tell me you don't get me please give me a reason and I'll understand.

------------------

I could go on for a bit but I will cut it short but to summarise: WZCW is a household where all of the RPer's are family members. Creative might be in charge but we are still equals and we all treat each other as such. We may pick on people like Armando Paradyse and it may seem like we have favourites because men like Triple X or Strikeforce keep winning their matches but truth be told, we consider everyone on the same levels. You do a better RP than your opponent, you win. You do a worse RP than your opponent, you lose. Simple. Storylines don't matter 99.9% of the time. Hell, we've had a lot of storylines get scratch due to RPer performances... we have no favourites here as that would ruin the fun, the main reason all of us are here in WZCW.

There is a reason why people consider this one of the best e-feds on the internet. We don't discriminate and give everyone a far chance. It's up to the RPer to seize the opportunity and run with it. To even conceive the ideas that we operate outside this mindset is disheartening and disappointing. It's not we are and it's not what WZCW is all about.

 

[ABMorales787]

On the personal notes, the intentions for me were never to gain a World title shot. My first HIAC match was never meant to involve me as I was supposed to take on the Killjoy in a 6-Man Captain Fall Tag Team Mayhem Rules match for the Mayhem title, along with the Crashin Movement, Gordito and Chris Jones.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

Not a single mention of Alhazred JGlass?

 

[JGlass]

Not a single mention of Alhazred JGlass?

Not by name, but I do mention a mad scientist as an interesting gimmick. I realize that's only scratching the surface for Alhazred, but there it is.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Action Saxton is consistently considered one of the most entertaining characters in WZCW, but he lost matches to Bowen, who is one of the most overlooked characters in WZCW. What lead to a forgettable act like Bowen beating a crowd favorite in Saxton? If all that’s stopping a midcarder from reaching the upper echelon is a few simple things, then I feel it’s creative’s job to let them know.

I did enjoy this part pretty much... Did Doc ask you to put this in? Why even go about it? Doc was not what he is now back then. His roleplays, along with mine were lackluster during both matches. He didn't tell a story, he beat up a singer.

I'm quite sure, if the roles were reversed at this point. We could both put on a pretty good show.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

Not by name, but I do mention a mad scientist as an interesting gimmick. I realize that's only scratching the surface for Alhazred, but there it is.

Saw it like two minutes after making that post lol. Thanks for making me feel special

 

[a0161613]

I've already discussed this specifically with Doc for what its worth.

 

[The Doctor]

I've already discussed this specifically with Doc for what its worth.

Indeed. Gave me some damn good advice, as well. Thanks for being up front and friendly. I appreciate it.

I do however disagree with you, Phatso, about my RPs not telling a story, considering my title match RPs against you were, in order:

1. "I've said everything I've said about you in previous RPs. I'm going to show you firsthand what it means to be in the ring with me."

2. "I'm going to win the Mayhem Championship, start on a journey to win every championship, and to prove that I'm not scared of barbed wire I am going to train with it, so prepare yourself Bowen."

I actually think my second one especially was some of my best work at the time. A case could easily be made against the previous RPs, but even then the one at the birthday party featured interaction between us.

I mean, yeah, I got pretty ridiculous back then, even too ridiculous for my own liking. Felt like I had written myself into a corner. But dammit, I did some good work in that feud.

(Also, I really don't appreciate you suggesting that I asked JGlass to put anything in this because I asked him to. Not cool, man.)

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Indeed. Gave me some damn good advice, as well. Thanks for being up front and friendly. I appreciate it.

I do however disagree with you, Phatso, about my RPs not telling a story, considering my title match RPs against you were, in order:

1. "I've said everything I've said about you in previous RPs. I'm going to show you firsthand what it means to be in the ring with me."

2. "I'm going to win the Mayhem Championship, start on a journey to win every championship, and to prove that I'm not scared of barbed wire I am going to train with it, so prepare yourself Bowen."

I actually think my second one especially was some of my best work at the time. A case could easily be made against the previous RPs, but even then the one at the birthday party featured interaction between us.

I mean, yeah, I got pretty ridiculous back then, even too ridiculous for my own liking. Felt like I had written myself into a corner. But dammit, I did some good work in that feud.

(Also, I really don't appreciate you suggesting that I asked JGlass to put anything in this because I asked him to. Not cool, man.)

How was I suppose to know? You've only brought up this point about 10 times?

I thought the birthday party was way over the top. Agreed, shit happens though.

But the whole second one was a promo basically, I cut a pretty great promo to. But you can't deny, at the time I could cut a better straight promo. That wasn't storytelling. That was you cutting a basic promo, I'm this. I'm that, and I'm going to beat Bowen, and become a champ in every division. I might of not been able to cut a good story at that time Doc. But I could cut a good promo to get my dude over.

And I did, in the future, I would love to face you again. Or maybe even have another feud. But this is the last I'm going to talk about that part of my reign. It's over, I won the matches. If you would have won, I would have tried to get the belt back. But that wasn't the case.

 

[Miko]

Speak Up

Let’s start with you. Yes, you, the one reading this. Unless your name is Gelgarin, Doc, Lee, Coco, JGlass, or maybe Barbosa, or unless you’re on creative, you’re contributing suck to WZCW. That’s not to say WZCW sucks– it’s actually pretty awesome –but you’re doing everything you can to make it suck. Or more accurately, your lack of doing anything is making it suck.

With the exception of the aforementioned names and creative (whom are exempt because we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors), no one is critical of WZCW. If people see something they don’t like, they wait for Gelgarin or Barbosa or Lee to raise an issue and see it get resolved. Instead, most folks just toss out an empty, “Meltdown was awesome tonight!” or perhaps a meaningless, “I love what creative is doing with this feud!”

By constantly suppressing your criticisms and replacing them with empty compliments, you are hurting WZCW.

How is something supposed to get better if you don’t tell the folks in charge how to improve it? They’ll just keep making the same mistakes over and over until someone tells them that they’re doing something wrong.

Yeah I dont contribute much, but I am pretty lax about the fed in general, take it in my stride, like I do with everything else. Besides, most people who do criticise usually criticise about their own characters and nothing else, hell, I dont care how stupid mine looks and I am happy with my character anyway, so I've got nothing to criticise.

To put yourself and others on a high horse, for more or less acting only in your/their own interests seems a bit strange to me.

Also, unwarranted praise, I dont give it, if I say something was good, its because I thought it was. It may looks empty, but to me it isnt.

Also, heaping praise on Creative isn’t going to get you a push. It’s not even going to get you noticed. You know what will get you noticed? Telling them what they did wrong with your character in your match and how they can improve it.

But if, like me, you're not particularly worried, its hard to do that. I am not going to scour through each and every show looking for a fault I can correct, unless it comes to their own characters, nobody else does either.

I’m talking to you, Crock. I’m talking to you, J4L. I’m talking to just about everyone that pussy foots around issues in hopes that by not drawing negative attention to themselves, they’ll maybe get the spot of someone who does.

Meh, I'd be just fine losing to the resident newcomer on Aftershock every week, so I aint worried about losing anything.

Deadlines

One of the most annoying things about WZCW is that about 40%-50% of the time, the shows are delayed. It’s never that bad, usually only a day or two, but it’s still annoying. We meet the strict deadlines that creative sets for us on our RPs, so I think it’s only fair that they meet the deadlines they set for themselves. I get that WZCW is a secondary activity to work, family, school, and things of that nature, but if they can’t make the time to fulfill their commitments, then they shouldn’t be making them.

My suggestion to creative would be to either push back the deadlines for the shows, make the deadlines for RPs even earlier, or to institute a strike system, where if someone is consistently late with their matches, they get kicked off creative. It’s harsh, but it’s not fair to the regulars that we have to meet deadlines and you don’t.

I can see this, but I dont usually stay up to read the shows, often times I dont get to read them until nearly the end of the week when the roleplay boards have been up for a couple of days already. Attitudes from both sides regarding the lateness of the shows can be a bit much though.

Favoritism

Favoritism clearly exists, and it generally gives an edge to those on the creative staff. Now I know this sets off the sirens and causes a lot of controversy, but it doesn’t have to. For the most part, the people who are in creative deserve to be on top. Ty Burna is one of, if not the best RP’er in the fed. FunKay is also extraordinarily good at what he does, and Dave’s push has been a long time coming. That said, there are a few things that really do bother me.

That title doesn’t belong on Kurtesy. I have no idea how it’s stayed on him so long without anyone saying more than a few words against it, but it’s getting preposterous. FalKon is an average RP’er with a poor grasp of the English language that has managed to have the longest World Title reign since Ty Burna, despite the fact three better RP’ers have held the title between them, one being leagues better in Barbosa. Am I saying there’s some sort of favoritism that kept the belt on Kurtesy for this long?

You’re goddamn right I am. I don’t know why Kurtesy went over Barbosa at Lethal Lottery, but I can only assume it was to give Kurtesy a chance to run with the belt, an advantage that wasn’t given to either Barbosa or Titus. Maybe he did win the votes in the creative boardroom… but something tells me that it wasn’t exactly a fair vote. Kurtsey’s RP was okay, but self-indulgent and sort of beat the concept over our heads. We get it, Barbosa’s bi-polar and you know how to deal with bi-polar people. Barbosa’s was better written, more interesting, and more entertaining.

Subjective, I prefer Barbosa's RP's to 99% of the fed, then again, I prefer my own to 99% of the fed, and I've lost a few. I can see why it might annoy people, but I dont think of wins and losses as the least bit important really, just a stepping stone to the roleplay boards going up again.

Conspiracies!

Someone will take the belt off of Kurtesy though, so it’s really not that big of a deal. I think most people are fairly happy with what they’re doing in WZCW, and whoever finally lifts the title off of Kurtsey will do so knowing that they beat a guy who didn’t deserve the reign he had.

But the favoritism doesn’t end there, now does it? Let’s take a look at the poster for Kingdom Come, which was designed by Dave, a member of creative, and everyone on his poster was a member of creative except for Big Dave, who is a former member of creative.

What did Constantine do to deserve to be on the poster? Why not Matt Tastic or Rush, or anyone in KFAD? Why were Holmes and Big Dave on there and not Saboteur and Saxton? Both were blood feuds, and I think just about everyone would agree that Saboteur/Saxton was the more anticipated match. Why no Barbosa or Black Dragon? Why not put Celeste and Chris K.O., the main players in arguably the second biggest match on the card, on the poster?

It’s a small thing, but another way of creative favoring itself. Being on that poster would mean a lot to a Chris K.O., a guy that’s on the cusp of the main event, and certainly the former world champion and consistent threat Barbosa deserves to be on there more than Constantine, a man who has just made it above the midcard for the first time in his career. If you’re thinking about it as a WrestleMania poster, who is more likely to be on it? A random guy in the Money in the Bank match (Kofi, Shelton Benjamin) or Randy Orton?

And while we’re on KC, why did Holmes and Big Dave get this huge video package, but none of the other matches (besides the 5 on 5)? Saxton and Saboteur had one of the best feuds of all time, and they got nothing. Black Dragon set a record by retaining his championship, and his match got no build apart from the introduction.
And wouldn’t a history of the significance of the KFAD Briefcase be in order for the KFAD match?

It just seems to me that creative is willing to go the extra mile for themselves, but not anybody else.

This, this is a good point, like you said, it's a little thing, but if someone gets on the WrestleMania poster, its like saying "hey, we take this guy seriously." While I tend to be of the opinion of "its only a poster, so what?" It's still a fair point.

Give Yourself a Push

Much like the WWE, the boss isn’t going to push you simply because you’ve been trying really hard and showing up every week. You need to be responsible for your own destiny, and that means giving creative a reason to give you a push. Unfortunately, most of you aren’t capable of writing an RP that can really “wow” the reader, so you’re going to have to make a story worth remembering.

Say… something about a breakfast spoon?

I’m not one of the main voices in the WZCW Spam thread, but from what I’ve gathered people were generally impressed with the Saboteur/Saxton feud going into Kingdom Come. And you know who booked that feud? Doc and I. We came up with the idea and sent it into creative months before Kingdom Come, and worked out the details whenever we found the time. By the time Kingdom Come season rolled around, Doc and I had a whole story to tell. Between working together and keeping creative updated on our plans so they can write our matches and segments accordingly, we wound up giving you folks a great story.

Don’t view your opponent as an opponent: view them as a partner. If you work against them, it will be a one off competition and left up to creative to decide whether that match is worthy of a feud or not. But if you work together on a similar story, you can make your match worthy of a feud. Sending a PM to Numbers or Ty to tell them what’s going on never hurts either.

And remember, you don’t need a title to feud over. It can be anything from the use of a particular move to a hatred of what that person stand for to a spoon.

I enjoyed you're fued, it was a bit fun. Like I said before though, as long as the boards go up and I've got a thread I can write in I am not particularly bothered.
Fuck, I dont know how many other people enjoyed AOC vs WZCW, but had I pushed my own ideas I wouldnt have been involved in it, and in all honesty there is very little I'd have traded being a part of that fued for.

RP’ing to win will make you lose, or make people hate your character

The most popular wrestlers in WZCW, judging by the voting for the WZCW EOTY , are Saboteur, Saxton, Barbosa, and Kurtesy. What do these four guys have in common? Well, I can’t speak for FalKon because I don’t know him that well, but the other three all write for fun, not to win. I can tell Big Dave is the type of cat that likes to win, and while it might get him sexy Kingdom Come victories, it’s not winning him any fans. Sam Smith (sorry if I pick on you a lot Crock, it’s just that I know you and your character so well) RP’d to win, and wound up being one of the most bland and boring characters in the fed, and he retired because of it.

Where do your priorities lie? Do you want to maybe win, but be considered boring and painstakingly craft a winning RP… or do you want to have fun, putting winning secondary, and write something that people will love to read? If you would rather win than have fun, then you keep on chugging along with your boring RPs that are a labor to read. Maybe one day you’ll reach the success of a Big Dave or an Austin Reynolds, guys that consistently win but few people actually enjoy reading.

But it should be noted that winning and fun aren’t mutually exclusive. Ty Burna has some of the most interesting RPs, and he’s the top guy. Barbosa is another popular guy, and he is a former world champion. Our current world champion is apparently one of the most popular characters as well.

This is why I think it’s important to focus on having fun first. The wins will come… eventually. By having fun with your character you can assure that you won’t get burnt out, and you can learn more and more about your character until you have all the tools needed to craft great RP after great RP that will take you to the top.

I agree, but people write for their own reasons, if it really matters to someone to be at the very top I am not going to take it away from them. I guess I am the Al Snow of WZCW, had S.H.I.T not been involved in the WZCW vs AOC fued, I would've asked to form a job squad variation at this point.

Bland Characters

I notice a lot of people either Mary Sue their characters (characters based on what the creator wishes themselves to be) or marginalize their characters until there’s nothing special about them.

Sam Smith gave up his law career to focus on wrestling. The result? Snoozefest that resulted in him retiring the character.

Big Dave- A blatant Mary Sue that, while extremely successful in WZCW, is possibly the most off putting character in WZCW.

Johnny Scumm- How is a guy with the last name SCUMM supposed to be a face? The name and the punk rock attitude lends itself so well to being a heel, but you gave up on it and turned face. You earned a title shot (and lost), but it hurts you in the long run.

Blade- After stepping down from the staff, the King of Bland fell. He fell far. He went from EurAsian champion to Aftershock, a show designed to get new characters off the ground.

This is a game based on your imagination. You can make your character anything you want. Make an evil robot, a mad scientist, a standup comedian; the possibilities are endless! We’ve seen enough wrestlers with minor variations, and there’s only so much space for these bland characters on the top of the card.

Who do you think it would be easier to RP against, a John Cena ripoff, or a guy with multiple personality disorder? Is it any surprise that some of the best RPs come from guys facing Barbosa? No, it’s because he gives his opponents tons to work with. The more guys we have with easily definable gimmicks, the better the chances of us seeing great work from all of our participants.

This I see both sides of, it is after all a "wrestling" fed, the more normal based characters make the Barbosa's and Sabotuers stand out, they wouldnt be as cool if everyone was like it, in the end it'd get too ridiculous even for me. The day someone debuts with MECHA S.H.I.T in an effort to upstage my weirdness is the day I quit the fed. It is more down to the skill of the RP'er to make any character interesting, some fail hard, a few succeed.

Feedback

Most feedback you get is completely worthless, especially because the posters that give feedback are usually the ones that need it most. You don’t often see the top guys in the fed giving feedback, and that’s because they’re at a point where they are confident enough in their work that they don’t need feedback.

But that’s not to say that you should strive for that. Collaboration is a big part of writing, and getting feedback on your ideas is always good. Unfortunately, Jobber McGee isn’t going to give you much in the way of constructive feedback.

In fact, very few non-creative members are qualified to give feedback, because none of us really know what wins matches. Lee made a nice little guide once upon a time to what makes a good RP, but I’m not sure if the standard still stands, and it certainly isn’t universal.

Agreed, I dont give feedback any more, Derek Jacobs is proof that people dont really take my advice anyway, if he had, he'd have won his first match with ease, is that arrogant to say? Not really, I am not arrogant or humble, if I am good, I'll say it, if I am crap, I'll say it. Why do I say it though? Because the most interesting thing to come out of his character is the "mercenary for hire" part, I helped him push that, hmm, maybe people do take my advice.

This is why I’m calling for a more open door policy with the way creative decides on matches. We don’t need to know who is voting for what and why, but I think it would be beneficial for everyone if creative sent a private message to each RP’er to let them know why they won/lost their match. It doesn’t have to be more than two or three sentences, and if you divide the matches up evenly between creative members, it wouldn’t take long at all, especially considering you already deliberated on it in the creative boardroom.

The reason I think this needs to happen is because sometimes some of the public’s favorite RP’ers can’t seem to pick up the big wins. Action Saxton is consistently considered one of the most entertaining characters in WZCW, but he lost matches to Bowen, who is one of the most overlooked characters in WZCW. What lead to a forgettable act like Bowen beating a crowd favorite in Saxton? If all that’s stopping a midcarder from reaching the upper echelon is a few simple things, then I feel it’s creative’s job to let them know.

If the response to this request is, “Anyone can PM us anytime to ask us why they won/lost their match,” then I urge everyone that is looking to move up in the WZCW world to PM the creative member of their choice after every match until they feel they’ve hit their stride in terms of delivering an RP that creative will like.

No, not for me, if I cant get beyond a barrier, the last thing I want is creative telling me what "they" think is a good RP. It'd be conforming.
Like I've said, I am not particularly worried about my spot, but if I do rise high in the fed, I am doing it on my own terms.

 

[Miko]

Yeah I dont contribute much, but I am pretty lax about the fed in general, take it in my stride, like I do with everything else. Besides, most people who do criticise usually criticise about their own characters and nothing else, hell, I dont care how stupid mine looks and I am happy with my character anyway, so I've got nothing to criticise.

To put yourself and others on a high horse, for more or less acting only in your/their own interests seems a bit strange to me.

Also, unwarranted praise, I dont give it, if I say something was good, its because I thought it was. It may looks empty, but to me it isnt.



But if, like me, you're not particularly worried, its hard to do that. I am not going to scour through each and every show looking for a fault I can correct, unless it comes to their own characters, nobody else does either.



Meh, I'd be just fine losing to the resident newcomer on Aftershock every week, so I aint worried about losing anything.

To add to this point, I have no writing training, my English grades sucked, to me, most matches are better than what I can turn out, as such I cant really see anything that needs to be improved.

Some angles are dull, but unless it involves my character I am keeping my trap shut, this is because I assume the people involved are perfectly happy with it as they dont complain, basically, you've got a set of metaphorical testicles, use them, I am not diving in and doing it for you. You dont like that you're character is floundering in the midcard? Fine, make a complaint, I might not like it, but I am not doing it for you, if you do complain in public and I agree, I'll back you up, but I am not starting it because I dont know how you feel about it.

I get that this might come off as the kind of attitude that may not be for the good of the team, but again, how do I know that the person involved doesnt enjoy whats going on?

And in typing this I have basically just written a post that agrees entirely with the begginning of JGlass's opening post about people needing to criticise more, if I can get there from the angle I was approaching this from, he must be spot on with it.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

Since we're all being honest, I have a confession: I've never read an entire show, not even the last Kingdom Come. I only read parts that involve my character, Saxton, Black Dragon, S.H.I.T. and Barbosa. I didn't even know Triple X was Elite X Champion until last week, I thought Holmes still had that shit. I couldn't name half of the characters on the roster or tell you anything about them.

I share Miko's sentiment that I don't give a shit about wins or losses or what story line I'm in or if I'm getting pushed or if I'm on a poster or whatever. I just like to write and be creative, could give a fuck what happens to my character as long as I still get to write and it's somewhat interesting.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

It appears I need to change my pants. I just pissed myself.

Lol, you're a drunk

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

What up fools. I'm sorry I missed this...I had a nonstop weekend and am just having a little go time right now.

My responses to some of JGlass's original post:


Running an efed is fucking hard

Have you ever done it? It's a lot of thankless work. Unless you have a team that is really well-oiled and can do a shitton of work on top of real life jobs, school, family, etc...it's nearly impossible to do. I failed at this miserably. Running an efed while being a full-time grad student and having only semi-committed staff often left us having shows that would be months apart. I finally stopped pretending and gave it up to Lee...and the rest is history. What we have now is pretty damn good, guys. I cannot stress that enough. Who honestly gives two shits if a show is a day late or so? Is it really going to set you back that much? Things happen, and especially when it's due to staff other than Ty, you have to be understanding of him. Turnover for creative is so high because it requires so much work with nothing to show for it.

Overly Nice Feedback

I agree w/ JGlass to an extent. I surely do not contribute to this. When I do feedback, it's raw. If you want some no holds barred opinions, ask me.

RPing to Win

The best feud I ever had was when I was Tag Team Champs w/ Wonderboy back in 2002 and we were feuding with the Cowboys from Hell. Why was it so good? Because the four of us were constantly in contact with one another, talking to each other about how we were going to use each other in our upcoming promos, what we liked about the promos we had already written, and how we could just add things to make the feud that much better.

So, tell a story. If you RP to try to win...you're going to end up coming up with a shitty RP. RP in a way that reveals character.



Thoughts?

 

[Awesome_Miz]

I will say this, I do agree with Ricky about running an e-fed. It is hard work. You probably can't do it by myself and that's why I love this fed so much. All of the staff here in WZCW really do deserve all the praise they get. I know for a fact that you need some consistent guys and we have them here.

As far as feedback goes, I agree feedback should be somewhat raw. I know I might not be the best guy to do feedback, but I do try and give some pointers on what was wrong with an RP.

I do agree that RPing to win is lame. Hell, I might not have the best track record, but I do have fun doing it. You might say I'm the worst here in WZCW, but I'm just having fun to write.

Basically, I agree with Ricky about everything except feedback. I just think it should be too raw.

 

[Mick Overlast]

I'm a relative newbie, but I'd like to add my two cents.

I'm on Ricky's side as far as running the fed is concerned. We're responsible for churning out 1000-2000 words every two weeks and calling it a day. Creative has to churn out those same 1000-2000 words, plus write matches, segments and handle whatever else they need to handle along with dealing with their real-life priorities.

They don't have to go through painstaking detail in the matches they write, but they do to make it a great read and make the work we do worthwhile. Let's face it; it'd suck if we had to write these good RPs and all we get is a line saying who won. I really appreciate the work they do. If it's a day or two late, I don't mind because I know it'll be worth the wait.

I'll admit that I'm as guilty of overly positive feedback as anyone. JGlass hit it on the head when he said it's hard to give good feedback because we really don't know the exact criteria to be successful.

Going off of that point a little bit -- as a new guy trying to find his way, I'm definitely looking for feedback because I want to get better and I want my RPs to be entertaining and must-reads every time they go up on the boards. The problem for me is I'm caught in a bind. I want good feedback that will help me, but I'm not really in the best position to give good feedback to others (especially those with much more experience than myself). I don't want to come off as greedy, so I give the best FB that I can even though it comes off as ass-kissing and overly positive. I hope that made sense.

Coming into WZCW, I wanted to make an impact, so I was definitely RPing to win. As I look back, the RP that I had the most fun writing was my RP for the tag team title match at Lethal Lottery. I talked to Pancake about using Rachael for it, and I think we really could've come up with a lot of good material for a strong feud, but the Sons fizzled out and the feud pretty much died immediately. I'd like to take credit for his still using Rachael in his RPs to this day, though. That all being said, you guys definitely make sense about using your opponent as a partner and having fun with the writing process. It's definitely something I want to use going forward.

I definitely see JGlass' point about having more interesting characters, but if everyone can write a good RP for a match against a certain person, is it really a good sign of that person's writing abilities? To me, it's definitely a bigger test to write against a character without that quirk that sets them apart.

Thoughts?