Samoa Joe Suspended?

[Slyfox696]

I tried to read the thread, I really did, but man there was so much awful in it. So if someone else said what I'm about to, good job.

Anyways, the fact people are actually defending and excusing Samoa Joe here is absurd. He's completely overweight, he constantly seems to be in poor aerobic shape, he's an absolutely WRETCHED wrestler, he has limited promo ability, and now he can't handle the fact he's not the booker? I'm sorry, but Samoa Joe needs a reality check.

You're not the damn booker Joe, you don't get to make the decision of whether or not the timekeeper tells how much time is left in the match. You're job is to just go out and do your job, not tell others how to do yours. You get paid to wrestle, not to book.


Why the fuck is Joe even around in TNA? He should feel grateful he still has a job. And to the people who are bitching about the way TNA has booked him, what the fuck are you all smoking? There's only been one way you COULD book Joe, and that's as a monster squashing people...after a while, that gets old and makes the rest of your roster look weak. And considering Joe is never going to be a draw, fuck putting him over as a monster.

In my opinion, Joe should be thankful he has a job. I wouldn't hire the waste of space.

 

[Buster]

I look at this situation and wonder whether it could have been handled better by TNA management.

Here you have a guy who is obviously not only passionate about the industry but specifically TNA, its past, and its future.

He cares about the quality of the product as we can see from his reported anger at the 30 sec announcement and things he has said in the past.

If this guy ends up getting suspended for a month because of his passion for work, with overall positive motives, where the situation built to a degree that he had to rant to be heard, you have to wonder why TNA are so poorly man managing one of their biggest talents.

Personally I look to Dixie Carter, the way she treats the business as if it is an extended family. Families shout at each other because there are no other consequences, i.e. you can't fire a family member, they will always be.

The "nice friendly lets all care and hug and give Dixie her TV exposure" style of management just doesn’t cut it when it comes to the guys who love their job, and love it for the quality of product put out. (I didn’t mean this to turn into a Dixie rant and could easily replace Dixie with Hogan or ECW reunion night #6).

Anyway my point is:
TNA needs more employees like Samoa Joe, needs people to care about the TNA brand more than their pay cheque or “extended family” otherwise it will always be the number two company. Wrestling is a business, business is ruthless.

 

[Slyfox696]

I look at this situation and wonder whether it could have been handled better by TNA management.

Yes, they should have just fired him and been finished with the dead weight.

Here you have a guy who is obviously not only passionate about the industry but specifically TNA, its past, and its future.

Say what? Since when has Joe EVER seemed passionate about anything other than himself?

He cares about the quality of the product as we can see from his reported anger at the 30 sec announcement and things he has said in the past.

WHOA WHOA WHOA

Yelling at your boss because you're upset the booker told the announcer to tell the crowd how much time is left in the match indicates caring of the product? Are you nuts? Timekeepers have given the time left in the match in wrestling for DECADES. It adds a level of suspense and drama to the end of the match, to see if one wrestler can pull out all the stops to defeat the other.

It's classic Wrestling 101 booking, and it's classic because it works. You're telling me it makes more sense to just end a match without any forewarning? That sounds stupid.

If this guy ends up getting suspended for a month because of his passion for work, with overall positive motives, where the situation built to a degree that he had to rant to be heard, you have to wonder why TNA are so poorly man managing one of their biggest talents.

By "one of their biggest talents", I assume you're speaking only of his weight, and not his limited in-ring ability.

TNA needs more employees like Samoa Joe, needs people to care about the TNA brand more than their pay cheque or “extended family” otherwise it will always be the number two company. Wrestling is a business, business is ruthless.

No, they need FEWER guys like Samoa Joe, they need more guys who shut their stinking mouth and go out and do their job. Let business decisions be handled by the people who get paid to make them. Joe just needs to get his fat butt in the ring and do what he's told.

 

[shattered dreams]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Even if Joe has reason to be upset he is going about it the wrong way and after the wrong people. Random displaced anger is good for no one. Are you guys really that big of marks for the wrestlers that you think TNA should give Joe "a live mic" again right now? He could derail the current momentum of the company by going into business for himself yet again. Look at his PPV shoot. He is frustrated with Scott Hall and maybe that some of his friends did not have the spot they once had. How does he handle it? He shoots and ruins the PPV main event match, he displaces his anger towards Kurt Angle, Kevin Nash and Dixie Carter. Nash was a key force in TNA looking into Joe and giving him that spot, Dixie hired him and signs the checks and how much of an idiot does Joe look like trying to lump Angle in the "old guys." Angle brought Joe up to the next level, Angle lost matches to Joe putting him over, Angle brought TNA to another level that made Joe's contract possible. Just like back then Joe lost his cool and went after the wrong people this time. Defending his irrational behavior because used to like his character better is the height of markdom.

 

[Reddannihilation]

IIRC, he was offered developmental contracts.

And if Bryan Danielson and Low-ki are anything to go by, that's all he'd be offered today

He'd have had to take a pay cut to go to WWE. I can't find it today on google, but he said publicly something like "I'm a professional wrestler, I do this for money, I'm not going to do it for LESS money."

And less money is exactly what he'd get.

That was in 2006 or 2007, when the WWE main event was Cena, HHH, Angle, Mysterio, Orton, Michaels, Undertaker, Batista, JBL, Benoit, Booker, RVD, Edge with Kennedy, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Big Show, Lashley and Umaga on the undercard. Look at that list of names, and think about how many WWE can count on for Wrestlemania 2011? 2012? Cena, Orton, HHH, and that's it.

I agree the WWE main event is shrinking more and more each year.

They've developed Miz, Punk and Seamus, and they'll still have some of those guys, but there is plenty of room for Samoa Joe at or near the top of the card.

Except that history has shown us, the WWE is not big on pushing guys from outside their system. CM Punk's probably had the biggest push and he ended up jobbing to a 45 year old after having the best feud ever with the companies 2nd major face. I somehow doubt Joe will fair much better.

When Joe is a free agent, I'd have to think he'd be looking at a WWE contract at least as good as what TNA is paying him.

Which I doubt it will, if Joe was suspended then that means he's one of the few TNA guys on a salary, you don't suspend the pay-per-appearance guys, you just stop employing them. And I somehow doubt the WWE would pay Joe much beyond whatever guys like Low-Ki are getting.

Even if WWE doesn't see him as a World Champion, WWE midcarders make better money than TNA stars anyway.

There's absolutely no way to prove that. In fact were it the case I'd have a hard time believing so many guys have turned down contracts with WWE.

Otherwise, you wouldn't see Christian in WWE. (Well, you don't SEE him much, but he's on the roster.)

Chrisitan left because he lost his top spot to Angle. Granted I want to be paid a lot if I went from world champion to mid-card/jobber.

They probably wouldn't know how to use him, but neither has TNA lately, so why not take the pay raise?

Because it wouldn't be a pay raise. He'd still be given the same NXT crap the other former ROH and TNA guys got. And really you have no idea how much Joe's making in TNA. If the suspension story is true, than he gets paid a lot because they don't suspend pay-per-appearance guys. It's all speculation.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

You can't really have a bad attitude, or be perceived to have one, when you're all but expendable. There's really no comparison between the Samoa Joe of 2005-2008 to the one that's currently in TNA.

No way is he ever going to be able to match his output from 5 years ago, but as it stands I'd be very surprised if Joe is ever going to reach the level he was at during his piss poor title reign.

 

[Raven1788]

I must be watching a diffrent Samoa Joe then everyone else. The Samoa Joe I saw fight Kenta Kobashi in NYC a few years ago almost made me shit myself he was so good. The Samoa Joe that fought CM punk in 60 minute matches was so amazing he made babies cry. The Samoa Joe who fought AJ and Daniels in a 3 way was so amazing he made rocks cry water. And don't get it twisted ladies and gentleman the Samoa Joe sitting home on suspension right now is that same fucking guy. He put on 30 pounds.....yea and? Triple H put on 50 pounds of muscle after going to the main event scene (and forgot to remove the syringe) and people were like wow he looks like a beast. I don't care if Joe is flabby. This dude can work a match like few others in the buisness. And as for WWE wouldn't use him correctly WWE has been busting their balls to get the IWC back on their side or they wouldnt be bringing in Low Ki, Evan Bourne, Bryan Danielson, Nigel Mcguiness (attempted to) and every other top draw on the independant scene. I for one think Vince would drool over the idea of having Punk Vs Joe on his card.

 

[hatehabsforever]

The only question I have about Samoa Joe's suspension is: if it hadn't been reported on the main page of the site, would any of us even notice that he's not there? He tends to disappear for significant periods of time anyway, and the show goes on without him. Which is not hard for me to understand, because in my opinion, he's the most over-rated wrestler in the business these days. Never before have I seen a guy who is fat, out of shape, average in the ring and below average on the mic, get as much love from the IWC as I see in these forums. To suggest he's passionate about wrestling is absurd, the only thing he appears to be paassionate about is cheeseburgers.

Forget seeing Joe in the WWE. He's very lucky to still be employed by TNA. If they were interested in an out of shape guy coming on board, they just would have kept Tommy Dreamer on the roster instead.

 

[Slyfox696]

I must be watching a diffrent Samoa Joe then everyone else.

It depends if you think he's good or bad...

The Samoa Joe I saw fight Kenta Kobashi in NYC a few years ago almost made me shit myself he was so good.

Then yes, you are definitely watching a different Samoa Joe.

The Samoa Joe that fought CM punk in 60 minute matches was so amazing he made babies cry.

Yup, a different Joe.

The Samoa Joe who fought AJ and Daniels in a 3 way was so amazing he made rocks cry water.

Good match...Joe should be thankful he had two such good workers who were willing to bump like mad for him.

And don't get it twisted ladies and gentleman the Samoa Joe sitting home on suspension right now is that same fucking guy.

I know, that's why some of us are happy right now, that we don't have to watch this overrated untalented hack bore us when his ring work or his promos.

He put on 30 pounds.....yea and? Triple H put on 50 pounds of muscle after going to the main event scene (and forgot to remove the syringe) and people were like wow he looks like a beast.

Just stop and think about that for a second. You just compared 30 pounds of fat on Joe to 50 pounds of muscle on Triple H. Even you have to realize how silly that statement was.

I don't care if Joe is flabby.

I don't either, what I care about is how that flab keeps him from being able to put on decent matches.

This dude can work a match like few others in the buisness.

There are plenty of guys who are able to sell poorly, work the stick poorly and only look good when they get to squash their opponent. Like Ezekial Jackson, for example. Looks great when he gets to squash his opponents and never sell their offense. But when you have to watch him put on a decent match with someone who doesn't bump like a god, or have to listen to him talk, then you realize how limited both Joe/Jackson are.

I for one think Vince would drool over the idea of having Punk Vs Joe on his card.

Yes, I can see it now, the main-event of Wrestlemania 30. Fat and sloppy Samoa Joe, towering at a height of 6 feet and one inches, taking on the greasy haired and flabby CM Punk and his lucky to be called 6 feet and 0 inches for the most prestigious title in all of wrestling.

Yes, Wrestlemania 30, look out. And try to figure out where you're going to put John Cena, Randy Orton, The Miz, Edge, Ted DiBiase, Triple H, and all the other scrubs you can scrounge up for the show.

 

[eezy1]

Samoa joes a phenomenal talent but i have to agree his shape was starting to show in the ring in the last few monthes. He didnt look much bigger than usual but you could definetly pick up on the fact he wasnt in the best ring shape from his matches, especially the ones that went longer than 5 minutes. His work was looking ever so slightly sloppy. Joe was setting the standard at 1 point and he can again, he just needs to get his head back in the game. It must be difficult staying motivated when ur not being used right tho. Same can be said/seen with Wolfe. Wolfe n Joe should be on top headlining TNA.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Joe has been shit for three or four years now. Everyone points out his great matches in 2005 but anybody could have a great match when you had Styles and Daniels selling like crazy for him. Other than his matches with Angle, what has he done in the last few years. They should have had Joe stay what he was: an angry pissed-off Samoan. Joe should be lucky they still employ him in TNA. He should just do his job and leave the booking to those who do it.

 

[Raven1788]

Wow people are really hating on Samoa Joe. Unfortunatly your little pipe dream is just that a dream. Because the rest of the IWC who are not watching threw rose colored glasses remember those 3 (yes 3) 5 star matches I mentioned earlier. They also remember Joe being voted the #4 wrestler in the world in both 2006 and 2008. And Sly seems to think Joe only looks good when he's squashing people. Thats funny cause he didnt win 2 of the 3 of those 5 star matches he was involved in (1 win 1 loss 1 draw). Joe looks better when he's competing in a good match then when he's squashing people. Everyone just assumes thats all he can do because TNA likes to push him as a monster because they are too retarted to think up anything else for him to do. Like maybe out a title on him (TV title anyone?) and go out there and just do what he does defend a title and make it legit. No one gave a shit about the ROH world title untill he made it look like a true crown. Also love how people say Joe should be happy to have a job....excuse me? This is a guy who the fans SHOW UP to see....you think they show up to see RVD point at himself or Sting have trouble doing a hip toss? DUHHRRRR no they show up to see Joe, AJ, MCMG, Lethal, Beer Money ya know those guys who can wrestle.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Wow people are really hating on Samoa Joe. Unfortunatly your little pipe dream is just that a dream. Because the rest of the IWC who are not watching threw rose colored glasses remember those 3 (yes 3) 5 star matches I mentioned earlier. They also remember Joe being voted the #4 wrestler in the world in both 2006 and 2008. And Sly seems to think Joe only looks good when he's squashing people. Thats funny cause he didnt win 2 of the 3 of those 5 star matches he was involved in (1 win 1 loss 1 draw). Joe looks better when he's competing in a good match then when he's squashing people. Everyone just assumes thats all he can do because TNA likes to push him as a monster because they are too retarted to think up anything else for him to do. Like maybe out a title on him (TV title anyone?) and go out there and just do what he does defend a title and make it legit. No one gave a shit about the ROH world title untill he made it look like a true crown. Also love how people say Joe should be happy to have a job....excuse me? This is a guy who the fans SHOW UP to see....you think they show up to see RVD point at himself or Sting have trouble doing a hip toss? DUHHRRRR no they show up to see Joe, AJ, MCMG, Lethal, Beer Money ya know those guys who can wrestle.

TNA isn't stupid to push him as only a monster. That's all Joe was ever good at doing. If he didn't have Styles and Daniels selling like gods for him in 2005, who knows where Joe will be now. Look at Joe's matches after 2005. Besides Angle, where are his great matches without Styles and Daniels. You won't find a whole lot of them. They've thought of plenty of Joe to do. He just sucks at it.

 

[JackBurton]

The last 3 months have seen Joe booked as a monster. Yes, he's been on the losing side once or twice aswell, but wins and losses mean fuck all when he gets up and rag dolls whoevers stupid enough to be in the ring - visa vi - he's getting a push. Or was. This has nothing to do with not being "one of Hogans boys" please, please, get over it. This has nothing to do with not kissing enough ass or politicking. The man clearly felt he had a grievance with someone in the production staff because someone told JB to announce the time limit 30 seconds before the match reached it - thus giving away the finish to, what was, a pretty good match (for some reason the op never posted that part of the article?). IDR pointed out that there is a way to go about things. Joe took a leaf out of the IWC's playbook - "throw a fuckin' fit and if you don't get what you want at least you'll get some attention". Joe being unprofessional has nothing to do with locker-room harmony and anyone claiming so clearly wants that to be the case more than the available evidence suggests. Fuck AJ's opinion. This is a guy who read Maddens book and thought he then knew all about WCW and why it failed.

Fucking nuff said

 

[Dogfingers]

He had several great matches with Christian. One absolute cracker at Bound For Glory as I recall. Joe, in the right frame of mind, can be a money spinner. The problem is TNA have made him look like an idiot then try to re-invent him so many times its becoming hard for people to take him seriously. I think Joes time in TNA is up. Conneticut awaits.