Roman Reigns's Finisher Dilemma

[CKDaimen702]

The spear. Made famous and perfected by Goldberg (DA MAN!). Since then, it has been used by many, and has been a part-time finisher for Batista and a full-time finisher for Edge, and has been a move we have seen used sporadically by many in the heat of battle. So, my question to you wrestling fans is: Does it make sense to have this finisher recycled with someone who you are grooming to be the next big superstar of the company - Roman Reigns?

Now, before you answer that, here is what I personally consider an obvious alternative:

Am I the only one who thinks the Superman Punch is clearly more exciting, effective, and UNIQUE of the two moves? Why not reverse the order of the moves? Reigns does the spear, does his war cry, and after his war cry he pounds his fist on the mat in wait...and then BAM! Superman punch! It appears it is too late and there is no going back, but not necessarily. There have been superstars who have changed their finishers in the past. Many newer fans may not realize this, but once upon a time, Shawn Michaels' sweet chin music was the setup for what was his finisher in the early 90s- a back suplex. Also, Edge, a main event and multi-time world champion has changed his finisher more times than I can count. So it is not necessarily too late, but if they are to do this, then obviously, the sooner the better.

What are your thoughts? Should Reigns have a different finisher? Should it be the Superman Punch? And is it too late to change it now?

 

[Navi]

Maybe it's because once he spears the guy, he's got the guy on his back, Reigns is on top, and it easier to cover for the 3 count.

If he has to set up for the Superman Punch, it gives a more agile wrestler a chance to either avoid it, or if Reigns doesn't nail it, it's not as believable. We're seen many wrestlers get up from the punch, not so many from being speared.

 

[Starkist]

He should stick with the Spear. It works for him. If I was to give a him move that I'd like to see him us it'd be the Impaler/Floatover DDT. I could picture Reigns using that maneuver and it looking good. I'm tired of the Spear move, but if it's getting him wind why change it.

 

[L@RISANO]

Given he actually excutes the Spear quite well, I am quite surprised that there are people who always question its use, and it is also clear people like to see him hit the move.

I do however, think the Superman punch has been overdone to the point that many people, myself included, have gotten tired of seeing it. That's one of the problems with WWE, they find something good and they force feed it and it goes stale all too quickly.

I would love if he starts doing a good power move. Maybe something like a Powerbomb or the like wouldn't be so bad, or even a Spinebuster would be useful for someone like Reigns given his moveset.

 

[Starkist]

Given he actually excutes the Spear quite well, I am quite surprised that there are people who always question its use, and it is also clear people like to see him hit the move.

I do however, think the Superman punch has been overdone to the point that many people, myself included, have gotten tired of seeing it. That's one of the problems with WWE, they find something good and they force feed it and it goes stale all too quickly.

I would love if he starts doing a good power move. Maybe something like a Powerbomb or the like wouldn't be so bad, or even a Spinebuster would be useful for someone like Reigns given his moveset.

I thought powerbomb as well since it was done during The Shield days. Granted it was a triple powerbomb it still would work with character.

If I has a video game life, I would change his finisher to the Float over DDT and Powerbomb. Reigns is just a beast.

 

[CKDaimen702]

@Navi, "Maybe it's because once he spears the guy, he's got the guy on his back" "If he has to set up for the Superman Punch, it gives a more agile wrestler a chance to either avoid it"
1. This does not resolve the lack of originality of the finisher which you should/would like your top star to have.
2. Agile or not, the wrestler will be groggy when they stand up after being hit with the spear and will still be prone for the punch. And even if they dodge it, they can duck under it, Reigns can punch the mat on the miss, and then they can chain the sequence together from there.
3. Also, as far as people getting up from the punch is concerned, I'm not sure if you are talking about Reigns's punch or punches in general. If you are referring to punches in general then I would say that is not always the case. Think Big Show. People don't get up from that. If you are referring to Reigns's punch, then that is my whole point. If they made it his finisher then people would no longer get up from it. If anything, we have seen people get speared by people all the way to the likes of Christian (no disrespect to Christian, but he's not exactly a bruiser), so to me the Spear has become phased out of finisher status. So why recycle it with your upcoming franchise?

@Larisano, I disagree with it being overdone and/or played out. Think of the Stone Cold Stunner. How many times did Austin do that damn thing a week? In and out of the ring? And it never got old. While not at the same popularity as the Stunner, the Superman punch is pretty damn cool. I don't see why it would get old.

As far as the powerbomb goes, I thought about that, too. But I think that they wanted to keep his war cry. And it would be awkward to do the war cry and then pick the opponent up instead of wait on him to get up. Because imagine in your head the war cry, followed by him picking the opponent up for a powerbomb....doesn't that look eerily similar to Batista when he does his little exclamation motion before the Batista bomb?

The impaler DDT is thinking creative...but I don't see that as being a good finisher for him...but that's just a matter of opinion.

 

[kadroan]

I think he should change his finisher just because of the injury risk. Seeing how doing the Spear has hurt Rhino and Edge.

I think Reigns is better off having the powerbomb as his finisher. I'm surprised he doesn't have it as a move since he used to do the triple powerbomb with Ambrose and Rollins.

 

[Soulblazed]

If anything, I like how Reigns actually puts force into the Spear. Given that he used to play football, it's no wonder he executes the Spear really good..He's got a good body type in order to pull off a really good Spear..That's why I support Reigns keeping the move, unlike Edge and Christian, who really never were capable due to their bodytypes of hitting a Spear. Edge and Christian hit what I've coined The Running Hug Of Doom.

For a secondary finisher, instead of the Superman punch which is a great set-up move, how about the Orange Crush Powerbomb? Now this move is more of an indy/Japan move..Kenta Kobashi debuted it a number of years back. It starts off like a delayed Britsh Bulldog-style suplex and transitions to a sit-out powerbomb.

If anything, Reigns could use the Orange Crush as his main finisher and use the Spear as a finisher to beat Big Show/Kane etc. Also, say Reigns appears on Miztv soon and Miz says something to piss off Reigns. Instead of using the Orange Crush to take out The Miz, he could hit a Spear for a quick pop from the crowd.

Kenta clip is below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrCbzdCCaW4

 

[MR K]

I think his finishers are absolutley fine, its really the rest of his moveset he needs to work on. Not bashing Reigns because i do like him but he really needs to develop more than his 2 moves. It's getting old quick.

 

[lil steroid meat]

I remember seeing Bobby Lashley do this cool modified Jackhammer (is that the suplex thing Goldberg used to do? I might be calling it the wrong thing) thing . . .

Actually here's a video:

[YOUTUBE]sqhV2HghXQI[/YOUTUBE]

It would be cool if he added the Regular Jackhammer to his arsenal and did the Catch Jackhammer on special occasions/vs. high flyers.

 

[OYDK]

Wow weird, I was watching SD last night and right after Reigns hit his Spear, I thought, "How could some people not see this as a legitimate finisher?" Now I have my outlet! Thanks CK!

Anyway, the Superman Punch would be a great finisher but I actually like that the SMP more disorients the opponent than knocks them out. It's what makes it such a good Signature move imo, and Reigns definitely has the build to make a Spear look devastating. If you have a 300 pound beast running full speed at you and driving his shoulder into your gut, it's going to hurt... possibly more than getting punched in the face by that same 300 pound beast. If you're referring to the "unoriginality" of the move, it's not that big of a deal. Taker used the Chokeslam which was a pretty well known move at the time, and guys like Psycho Sid, Nash and Hall all used a variation of the powerbomb at the same time.

I think moves like the powerbomb, spear, and chokeslam are used by the wrestlers that they fit with, and the spear definitely fits with Reigns.

 

[hollowpoint]

I like the Spear as his finisher simply because it fits him. He's a big dude and he's intense. The Superman punch is a great signature move, but I don't think it should be a finisher anymore than I think a running knee should be a finisher. It's a setup move and Reigns has improved greatly in terms of knowing when to use it.

 

[Reflection]

Does it make sense to have this finisher recycled with someone who you are grooming to be the next big superstar of the company - Roman Reigns?

When it is executed flawlessly like Roman Reigns does it, and gets the reaction that Roman gets- from the lead-up to the pin, then yes, it makes perfect sense to keep the finisher, however recycled it might be. For example, Finn Balor's Double Foot Stomp isn't original. However, it's executed well and manages to take the audience by awe, and thus, he should continue with it.

Having said that, I feel a submission maneuver could be a positive addition to his moveset and help ease the dependency on the Spear and the Superman punch. Does anyone do the Abdominal Stretch anymore? A Cobra Twist after the Spear should be much more effective than just the regular Spear... especially against opponents like Cena or Brock.

 

[BRAT]

Man,even Goldberg had spear as a signature move. If they want to make Roman the new face of the company,they must think a significant move. But as everyone knows,WWE creatives cant think a better finisher. If you consider it,three of the best superstars in the roster have very simplistic finishers. Dean Ambrose: DDT.... How can he win a match with this move. Seth Rollins: Curb Stomp is a better one than the previous but still simplistic. Nevertheless I don't see this changing.

 

[CKDaimen702]

Wow weird, I was watching SD last night and right after Reigns hit his Spear, I thought, "How could some people not see this as a legitimate finisher?" Now I have my outlet! Thanks CK!

Anyway, the Superman Punch would be a great finisher but I actually like that the SMP more disorients the opponent than knocks them out. It's what makes it such a good Signature move imo, and Reigns definitely has the build to make a Spear look devastating. If you have a 300 pound beast running full speed at you and driving his shoulder into your gut, it's going to hurt... possibly more than getting punched in the face by that same 300 pound beast. If you're referring to the "unoriginality" of the move, it's not that big of a deal. Taker used the Chokeslam which was a pretty well known move at the time, and guys like Psycho Sid, Nash and Hall all used a variation of the powerbomb at the same time.

I think moves like the powerbomb, spear, and chokeslam are used by the wrestlers that they fit with, and the spear definitely fits with Reigns.

Well, it's not that I don't see it as a legitimate finisher, and you make an EXCELLENT point in regards to the chokeslam, powerbomb, etc. And I can tolerate them continuing to use the spear as his finisher because IMO he has the second best spear I've ever seen (next to Goldberg), but, I don't know, maybe Edge and Christian's "Running Hug of Doom" as one poster so hilariously put it ruined the move for me as a finisher. However, the Psycho Sid/Kevin Nash analogy of how they used the powerbomb at the same time is SPOT ON, mostly because Nash was the #1 guy at the time. To me that's the best point I've heard in regards to keeping it....that and the fact that he does nail it better than most. I'm not sure if I'm willing to fully concede, though, because I see the Superman Punch as being a very potentially unique finishing move and is not being used to its full potential. Any move that is so unique and popular and effective might as well be a finisher because nowadays its hard to come up with unique finishers, especially with a power wrestler. I think this move should be more than a move to "stun people" because if the People's Elbow's momentum, popularity and originality could have that weak-ass move be a finisher, then why not have the much more effective and also popular Superman Punch be a finisher? Grab originality when you have the chance for your #1 superstar.

 

[CKDaimen702]

Does it make sense to have this finisher recycled with someone who you are grooming to be the next big superstar of the company - Roman Reigns?

When it is executed flawlessly like Roman Reigns does it, and gets the reaction that Roman gets- from the lead-up to the pin, then yes, it makes perfect sense to keep the finisher, however recycled it might be. For example, Finn Balor's Double Foot Stomp isn't original. However, it's executed well and manages to take the audience by awe, and thus, he should continue with it.

Having said that, I feel a submission maneuver could be a positive addition to his moveset and help ease the dependency on the Spear and the Superman punch. Does anyone do the Abdominal Stretch anymore? A Cobra Twist after the Spear should be much more effective than just the regular Spear... especially against opponents like Cena or Brock.

Respectfully, there is no way in the year 2015 and beyond that the abdominal stretch can be a finishing move. Surely, you realize this. I also think that any submission move after the spear/Superman Punch would be extremely anticlimactic and would temper down his intensity.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I have no problem with the order in which Reigns is doing things now. The key is really how effective the guy doing the maneuver looks. In Goldberg's case, it was obvious. In Edge's repertoire, I thought he looked less fierce, yet his angular build gave his spear a sleek look, which I liked.

In Roman Reigns case, his combination of the two moves, in addition to his overall look when he's doing them, leaves me believing he's got things in the right order as things stand.


NOTE: In case anyone thinks it's easy to wrestle a match in the ring, did you see how rusty Reigns looked last night? Man, I thought he was pretty bad, even for a first match back. Fandango did what he could, playing right into Roman's moves, but it made me appreciate how truly hard it is to be a pro wrestler.

 

[MC_Live]

We had this exact same question in a thread a few months ago. There's no reason to change it up. As of right now, the Superman Punch-Spear combo gets a massive reaction. No need to mess with it, since most of the audience likes seeing it. A finisher doesn't need to be original. It needs to be effective. And at 6'4 265ish, Roman Reigns makes the Spear very effective. A lot more effective than say Jimmy Jacobs or Bo Dallas, who were both using the spear. Certainly better than Kaitlyn's spear. Besides, as cool as the Superman Punch looks, does anybody not realize how fundamentally wrong it is? You're not actually suppose to leave your feet to throw a punch. In reality, the jump shifts the momentum and takes away some of the force of the punch. Besides, when a 265 lb man just lowers his shoulder and literally runs through you, you probably ain't getting up too quickly. So to answer the question, no, the Spear is fine. In fact it's better than fine. He makes it almost lethal. And the crowd loves it. Why fix what ain't broke? You ask me, Roman shouldn't worry about his finisher, and should instead focus on getting good at promos. But that's a whole other topic...

 

[OYDK]

Besides, as cool as the Superman Punch looks, does anybody not realize how fundamentally wrong it is? You're not actually suppose to leave your feet to throw a punch. In reality, the jump shifts the momentum and takes away some of the force of the punch.

Actually, the Superman Punch is used in MMA regularly and you do leave your feet to throw it, but I'll admit it's more used to get to the inside than knock somebody out and it's also used much more differently than Roman Reigns uses it. MMA fighters launch themselves off their back foot to add momentum whereas Reigns just sorta jumps. Sorry, don't mean to nitpick and not relevant to the thread, but the SMP is a legitimately recognized move in fighting.

 

[Reflection]

Respectfully, there is no way in the year 2015 and beyond that the abdominal stretch can be a finishing move. Surely, you realize this. I also think that any submission move after the spear/Superman Punch would be extremely anticlimactic and would temper down his intensity.

Respect appreciated If the Camel Clutch can be a finishing move in 2015, then why not the Abdominal Stretch? It actually coincides with the debate whether Reigns should keep using the spear or not, and the answer to this would be the same- If he can make it look great, then why not? Just about any move can be a finishing move. It all depends on the execution. His build and facial expressions would be ideal for the move. It targets the same body region as the Spear. He can use his right elbow on the opponent's belly side to make the attack look even more painful. It will surely look more threatening than the loose STF or Yes! Lock. If a strong opponent kicks out of the Spear, Reigns can use the Abdominal Stretch to hurt the middle region some more so that the next spear is even more effective.

 

[CKDaimen702]

Respect appreciated If the Camel Clutch can be a finishing move in 2015, then why not the Abdominal Stretch? It actually coincides with the debate whether Reigns should keep using the spear or not, and the answer to this would be the same- If he can make it look great, then why not? Just about any move can be a finishing move. It all depends on the execution. His build and facial expressions would be ideal for the move. It targets the same body region as the Spear. He can use his right elbow on the opponent's belly side to make the attack look even more painful. It will surely look more threatening than the loose STF or Yes! Lock. If a strong opponent kicks out of the Spear, Reigns can use the Abdominal Stretch to hurt the middle region some more so that the next spear is even more effective.

Good point on the antiquity of the camel clutch, but the abdominal stretch has become a glorified rest hold. The camel clutch has never downgraded that low. Although I will give you that even as a rest hold, the abdominal stretch has been used a lot less frequently than it used to be, making it more apt for a comeback, I still would not compare it to the camel clutch, and I still do not see any possible way they would consider this as being his finisher. If a babyface will have a submission as a finisher, it needs to be something a bit more flashy, i.e. Sharpshooter, STFU. The best example of a face using a finisher successfully in modern times is the ankle lock by Kurt Angle, and that was after it was already established by him as a heel, and he was a heel more often than a face. Then of course there is He Who Can't Be Named, but he also established it as a heel before he was a face, and he was also a technician/submission wrestler, whereas Reigns is a power wrestler.

Altogether, I think the camel clutch has more history as a finisher, especially since Rusev is basically a modern day Iron Shiek. The camel clutch also has much less of a history as a rest hold than the abdominal stretch does, so I don't think the comparison really fits.

 

[FightOwensFight]

I have seen a lot of people talk about how good the spear looks when Reings uses it. It seems I am in the minority, but I have always thought there isn't nearly enough impact when he hits it. A few people said Edge didn't do it well, but I was watching one of the Monday Night War episodes last night and it showed one of his spears (to Jeff Hardy I believe) and it looked more violent and punishing than any Reigns has ever done.

That being said, I think the best use of his two signature moves would be to hit the Superman punch (and no always with the "fist cocking, mat slamming beginning) and have it daze the opponent (like another poster mentioned) and then go off the ropes for the spear on the stumbling opponent.

Think of him hitting the punch, then immediately going behind the opponent off the ropes, have the groggy opponent turn around to try and find him, only to be almost split in half by the spear (assuming he hits it with some level of authority). I think that would look pretty nice.

 

[timothy26]

He actually hits it really well, Edge and Batista's spears were terrible. I cringed every time I saw Edge spear someone

 

[MC_Live]

Actually, the Superman Punch is used in MMA regularly and you do leave your feet to throw it, but I'll admit it's more used to get to the inside than knock somebody out and it's also used much more differently than Roman Reigns uses it. MMA fighters launch themselves off their back foot to add momentum whereas Reigns just sorta jumps. Sorry, don't mean to nitpick and not relevant to the thread, but the SMP is a legitimately recognized move in fighting.

Actually you're right. You do leave your feet. But it's more so a forward hop. There's not a lot of air time. Roman Reigns gets like what, 2 feet off the ground. All of that momentum he uses going up should be used to go forward. That was my like of thinking.

 

[L@RISANO]

Actually you're right. You do leave your feet. But it's more so a forward hop. There's not a lot of air time. Roman Reigns gets like what, 2 feet off the ground. All of that momentum he uses going up should be used to go forward. That was my like of thinking.

It doesn't matter in the WWE as I think the SMP was introduced as Cool move for Reigns until they decided to have him do it about ten times per appearance and now, many people have gotten tired of seeing it.



As for someone saying that Edge's spear looked like it hurt more...I can say for sure that Edge did more of a running hug than anything. Besides Goldberg, I haven't seen anyone execute the Spear quite as good as Reigns does.