Randy Orton : The next great anti hero ???

[Mighty NorCal]

People say that since Orton's return from injury, he has been receiving at least partial face pops. Those people would be wrong.

They are wrong, becuase Orton has been receiving face heat since he broke his collar bone. Listen to the crowd. Listen to them since his return. Listen to them on the DVD from last night. Orton out popped everyone besides Cena on sunday night. The finish of his match also received a huge reaction.

JR took note of this in his most recent blog, and noted that a sort of "anti hero" sells tickets in this day and age. I pose the question...do you think it could work?? and do you think Orton is the man to pull it off???

Personally I think if they keep the character exclusive to just one guy, it could work. And I think orton is the perfect person to pull it off with, as he has a very gravitational aura to him, a crowd popping series of signature moves, and an entrance/attitude which makes the older crowd at least, but still be hated by a lot of the younger crowd.

Do you guys think it could work, and do you think Orton is the man for the job??

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

I think part of the reason that Orton's working so well right now and is getting such a good reaction is that he isn't being booked like the rest of the heels out there. He isn't put in the general squash match, nor is he booked like Jericho/Edge/Santino/etc where he seemingly can't win a match on his own.

Orton's coming out every week, calling people out on their b.s., and then kicking their ass. Orton's not one of my 5 favorite employees, but I'm a big fan of his current character because it seems to fit. He's backing up what he says. So I think the fans are cheering him because he's not just whining about stuff and then proving himself wrong, and he's not squashing no-name jobbers (or equally bad opponents like Jimmy Wang Yang or Dreamer).

I don't think the WWE should change a thing. He's getting a reaction, which is good. It might not be a whole slew of boos and people throwing cups of beer into the ring cause they hate him, but its still better than 95% of the company. If they try to turn him face, I think it'll fail, but not due to Orton. It'll fail because they'll start booking him as a face, which means he'll start losing all the time, he'll get beat down at the end of every episode of Raw, he'll start following all the rules, etc.

I say, just keep it the way it is right now, but see where it goes. If the fans start booing Batista and cheering Orton even more, maybe they should think about doing a double turn and moving Batista into the heel category and Orton into the face section. But as of right now, put the screwdriver away and don't tweak it...just watch for a little bit.

 

[The Undercover Man]

Orton is a very funny wrestler in the fact he gets cheers and he gets boos, you coud say he is like Cena, you either like him or you hate him. Even before Orton broke his collar bone he was recieving little pops here and there, admittedly most were from fan girls only intrested in Orton's good looks and certain body parts.

I think Orton would be a great "anti hero" he allways was when he use to beat down Cena like before WrestleMania 24 he recived huge cheers for his feud with Cena and Triple H. I don't know how to describe Orton as or put him in a certain group of wrestlers because he truly is his own person and is great at what he does. He could pull the anti hero thing off with ease, he is over with the crowd and yet he gets booed. I could just imagine him beating down a guy and the crowd still cheering for him, whenever he is around its like a pantomine.

Orton has great heel psychology so that side of the anti hero thing is already there, the only thing he needs to do is build up his face persona if he was ever to be a good seller of both. His wrestling moves and his entrance all add to his gimmick and are perfect for his gimmick, i wonder what he would do to his gimmick if he were indeed to follow this anti hero recommendation.

He is the man for the job, no other guy could do this or could have done it apart from Hulk Hogan or Triple H. Orton is blessed with the fact he has good looks and has lot of women fans hence most of the large cheers so yeah, think Orton could pull it off

 

[OIL]

I agree with you NorCal, Orton is the man for this role, and he fits the role perfectly.

He's sort of that badass character, doesn't care what anyone thinks, whether the crowd cheer him or boo him, but he has that cockyness about himself that people love, which is why he's out-popping Batista at the moment. He reminds me of The Rock in that respect, he was hated but eventually as a heel, he gathered a huge fan base and went on to be one of the best faces ever. Obviously, Orton as a face doesn't work too well, it's been tried and he fits the heel role better. But, it's not strictly a heel role, more of a tweener but leaning towards a heel.

Either way, let this pan out and see how the crowd react to him. If it carries on as it is, then you've found the next great anti hero. Heck, throw him and Steph together as a team against Shane and Batista, see what that does. I'd love that fued.

 

[CCS]

This could potentialy kicketh ass. If Orton keeps up his gimmick of bieng a badass heel people will love him. Why you say ? Because people love a Anti-hero. Look back at some of the most popular villians in history. All of them are Anti-heroes. You cant have faces winning all the time because that would make your product stale. That's where you give a Anti-hero that everybody loves the title. That way some people will hate him and he'll still get heat , And some people will love to hate him and he'll still sell mechandise. WWE hasnt had that heel character lately. It could have been Mr. Kennedy but he fucked up. Now it looks like Orton is going to take the ball and run with it. If Orton continues with his current gimmick he'll FINALY be seen as one of the best in the WWE.

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

I'm probably in the minority here but to me I will always root against Orton. To me as a heel he's a heel, as a face he's an out of place asshole and as a tweener he will always fall on the heel side to me. Where as Stone Cold or the Rock would "do what they wanted and not care what anyone thinks" and people would cheer, with Orton I would just view him as more of a cocky asshole. I don't know what it is, I just don't like him. I think he's a good heel but he'll always be a stuck up jerk to me.

 

[ExtremeSwagga93]

I think people want a different kind of heel, hence why they like Orton. For the most part people are tired of the cowardly heel that always punks out or gets cheap wins (at least the fans I know are). Orton though, he can go and pin a guy Batista cleanly and the fans kinda like it. In fact this Monday on RAW, Orton got a bigger pop than Batista when Stephanie announced the triple threat match.
Anyway, I support this character and I think they should stick with it. As long as they don't go and give this anti-hero character to a hundred different guys, it could be Orton's ticket to remain in the main event.

 

[jmt225]

Gabe Sapolsky, former ROH booker, wrote the following in a blog he posted yesterday:

"Now there is one guy that to me just seems ready to change the business and put it on his back. My pick might surprise you. I actually haven't been a fan of this individual until recently. Randy Orton just has that "it" factor now. Since he has been back from his injury he just seems like THE guy. I say turn him into a kickass babyface, let him go wild, protect him and make his big kick the new, but more dangerous, less frequently used stunner."

I couldn't agree more. This dude, in my opinion, really does have the chance to be the next Austin. People can buy into him as a real bad ass, something I don't think they could with Cena because Cena’s character became such a kiss ass for so long. You won't get that with Randy Orton.

I mean, seriously... what drew with "The Dark Knight"? Was it Batman, or was it the fucking Joker? It was the Joker, of course. People just love a bad motherfucker when it comes to entertainment. A guy who doesn't give a shit about the repercussions his actions will have. And Randy Orton definitely can be that guy for WWE. He just needs better booking and a ‘Rock’ and ‘Mr. McMahon’ to work with. Cena could easily be that Rock, and Steph could easily be the McMahon, but I just don’t see WWE ever going that route. It’s too political in that company and there are too many stubborn, selfish, kiss ass pricks that have Vince’s ear.

 

[Shocky]

Randy Orton is good, damn good. If and only if the WWE keeps the tweener Anti-Hero on one guy, it will work. Orton has potential to be Steve Austinish. For some reason, he attracts that angry young adult crowd that resents the John Cena's of the world. While Cena attracts a certain demo, Orton nails the other. That's why I'm loving the possibility of just a one on one no Triple H invovled match at wrestlemania 25 vs. Orton.

Orton is slimy, yet cocky and convincing enough to love to hate. He's an interesting character tos ay the least. As long as Orton is the only one, it could work well, and it should work. The Attitude Era was a joke because everyone became a tweener, it doesn't work that way. One guy gets the Golden Egg, and it should be Orton.

 

[Showtime]

Are we saying that Orton is so over right now that he could RKO the pope and still get cheered...

I remember reading in Mick Foley's Have A Nice Day that Austin was so over that he could stunner the pope and still get cheered. Austin is who I would consider to be the last great anti hero and he of course rose to great popularity. Austin tried his damnedest to be the best heel he could be, used similar ring psychology, trashed everyone, and eventually everyone started cheering him and he had to turn face and he went on to become one of the biggest faces ever. But of course Austin and Orton are two different heels, Austin the brawler, Orton more refined and percise, Austin and his redneck trash talking, Orton being a badass and beating up anyone who pisses him off.

I love the Orton character right now and think he may already be the next great anti-hero, but he needs to stay heel so he can keep picking up big wins. If he goes face then he'll inevitably go back to losing again. Orton is being cheered because he is calling peoples bs, something a lot of faces do already. He acts extremely cocky and arrogant, but backs what he says and does what he says. But his wrestling style and his character act very much like heels and his character would lose its effect as a face. Could you imagine him doing what he's doing to middle high card contenders JBL, Kane, or Mark Henry, verbally assaulting them then sneaking up later on them and kick them in the head, I wouldn't know whether to cheer or boo them. It just wouldn't work.

We cheer him because he attacks anyone and because he has to his heel down perfectly. When a heel has is character down perfectly and earns the respect of the fans he can always be cheered. The fans wanted to cheer HHH, the fans wanted to cheer The Rock, the fans wanted to cheer for Orton once before too. I remember back when, on the RAW after the Backlash PPV, if I'm correct, where Orton beat Cactus Jack in a bloody awesome street fight. Orton received strong cheers from the canadian audience when he came out for his promo about the match. Now it might just be that we Canadians are just easily drawn by strong wrestling, but at that point Orton had reached perfection for his character, the young outrageously cocky wrestler, and by proving he was better by going basically undefeated for in big matches for the last 6 months and being the IC champion. The WWE held it off till Summerslam and then blew it. Orton I think has reached perfection with his character, but needs to stay heel. Wait him out like Austin, build his momentum up, then launch him face. Better yet, give him the title, have him run with it for a while, build his greatness up, have him be robbed of the title, then have to fight his way back again to get it and that's when you'll turn him face, so the people's king can get back his gold.

So to answer the question at the top, maybe, give him time and he'll definitely be able to. Right now thou, I wouldn't change a thing with Orton and let it all just progress, like Austin.

 

[Swift]

Ever since i've started watching wrestling again, I've found myself trying to find someone that I could, at the very least, tolerate. A little background info, my favorite wrestling entertainer of all time is Austin (Attitude era; didn't like the whole invasion angle thing, personally).

Needless to say, Orton does have some of the same qualities today, that Austin had. It's the whole idea of "I will do whatever I want and back it up, and there's very little that you can do about it, if anything" that comes with the character, that I think attracts so many fans, including myself. I'd also like to note, however, the refreshing qualities that Orton adds to the protoype. Qualities that I think are necessary for him to maintain his uniqueness with it, and that make the concept of the character itself a little more modern.

They're both members of the "I'll whoop your ass" school of thought, but where Austin might say those words as they are, Orton might say something more along the lines of "You aren't on my level".

I still feel as though Orton tends to over-act, as do Edge and Cena and many others in the business, but he's made it to a point, to me, where the majority of his segments have become, at the very least, tolerable. Bottom line, if anyone wanted to make the argument of Orton being able to hold his own in the era that I grew up watching (the Attitude era), I wouldn't be the one arguing against them.

Personally, it's the "You can't f*** with me" type of persona that keeps me interested, which might also explain why I am also a fan of Maryse. Not just the ones who say it, or who try to portray it, but those who clearly show proof, or at the very least, the potential of.

Confidence and a bit of cockiness. Qualities that I'm fond of, amplified for entertainment. I like.

 

[factum]

Orton has received babyface pops for along time. when he changed brands from Smackdown to Raw he was a heel and fans were still cheering him. But the WWE teamed him with Edge who was really hated and then put him against Hulk Hogan in a feud.

That stops wrestlers from the fans turning them into babyfaces, and eventually the WWE turns them into one officially. Give the fans what they want and they'll cheer you.

fans like heels to be badasses like Steve Austin and on Raw Randy Orton is probally the best fit for a similiar Austin character.

 

[grahambrown]

I may be completely alone in this sentiment, but in addition to everything else that's been said, I think Orton's acting ability outshines most of the WWE talent these days. I can't really put my finger on it, but the backstage vignettes he's involved in just seem better than anyone else's. I like him in the ring as well, he seems like one of the most well-rounded entertainers.

As far as the idea that Orton could begin to take on an Austin-esque role, I think he definitely has some great qualities that could elevate him to that status, but one key aspect is missing. I don't think viewers can really resonate with Orton's persona like they could Austin's. When fans, regardless of age, looked at Austin, they found a part of themselves in him. And while Orton knows his way around both a ring and a mic, I just don't think he has that sort of universal appeal. I don't think he'll be able to pull the young viewers like Cena did, so he may just end up in the middle of everyone liking him, but no one really loving him. It's tough to get over when you're stuck in that middle.

For the record, I'll support Orton all the way. I'm just afraid he doesn't have "it," whatever it takes to turn a star into a superstar, even though he may completely deserve that status.

 

[RBH]

I have always thought Orton was like the Rock in the many ways because the Rock only got better on the mic as he got older and Orton kinda speaks like him. The Rock used to talk in a slow monotone way early in his career and Orton is doing the same thing. Plus the character Orton does not seem to give a shit and I love it! Plus, he is not backing down from anyone and is establishing himself as a primier main eventer. This is why I have always liked Orton and I wish we could have seen an Orton-Rock match. But that match will never come to be. But yeah, Randy Orton has certainly come into his own as an entertainer.

 

[Trips]

Is anyone else upset about the role Randy Orton now has? Before he got hurt he was the TOP HEEL. He was great at what he did. Yeah, we're supposed to hate the Heels, but he was great at what he did. Now he's stuck mentoring Rhodes and Manu.

Isn't anyone else irritated by this? Why does Orton have to put over Batista who is not better that Orton. Orton brings ratings, at least he did before they demoted him to mentor status.

Now I'm not saying he should be champion, but he shouldn't be putting over the animal. Also, why is it that Cena gets the title right after coming back from an injury when Orton was in the title mix and was injured trying to regain his title?

I don't like the direction that Orton is going. They are ruining a very good character. Put Orton back in the main events and quit having him put over weaker talents.

 

[NSL]

I'm not saying that I like Orton's role, but I don't think he (or Cena) should've been thrust back into the spotlight with the injury histories they both have.

The only reason I can think of, for Cena getting a title shot right away, was that he got hurt and did his rehab, and came back, with no controversy. Orton had the "motorcycle accident", and a lot of people were skeptical as to what was really going on.

I like Orton as a wrestler, but I think his current role fits him for now, or at least until they know he'll last a full year without breaking or separating anything...

Cena shouldn't have gotten a title shot, no matter what, following his return. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in a feud leading up to a title match, not a wrestler using his popularity to get it the day he returns...

 

[La Mascara]

Orton is slowly, but surely becoming the face of the WWE. What draws people to him is how he stands ,with Manu and Cody next to him, staring down his opponent. I love that.

His acting skills are amazing. That's what makes his promos great. He needs to chill a bit while he is wrestling. He seems to get a little wound up when he wrestles. If he can refine that he would be flawless.

I love "The Legacy" faction. He is building up the younger stars that will carry the wwe in the future. He should have beat Batista. Having him lose made him look a little weak. He needs to start winning his big matches cleanly. This way he is made to be more of a badass who can walk his talk.

Once Dibiase returns, I can see him bash heads with Orton and Legacy will be torn down the middle. One half for Dibiase and the other half for Orton. Have Dibiase gain some credibility over the next 5-6 months then Dibiase can feud for the WHC and dominance of Legacy.

Orton will rise to super stardom soon, so long as the WWE books him correctly. I love this Legacy faction. It is something new and refreshing. I can't wait to see how everything evolves.

 

[reanimat3d]

Randy Orton is hands-down the most bad mofo in the WWE. His look alone, just screams "I will kick your ass until your nose bleeds if you even think of looking at me in the wrong way". He has a solid frame, can actually get himself around in a ring & has a killer move-set. The way he walks & talks makes you respect him, regardless of whether you like him or not.
The Legacy stable, will prove to all the haters that Orton will be the next big thing.
It's all in the timing.

 

[Kyphael]

As big a Jericho fan I am, I will say that without a doubt, Randy Orton is the greatest heel in the WWE today and he will be for many years to come. I don't see the man ever turning straight babyface again, (maybe an anti-hero as the thread suggests) he is too good at being a heel. Even more now than when he tried to play the charismatic pretty boy back in Evolution. It's not just his in-ring talent. Orton lives his character because he is his character. His gaze is remorseless, he looks down his nose on people and he walks like a serpent. I'm going to sound like a total nerd for drawing this comparison but Orton reminds me of Lord Voldemort.

Think about it, Orton thinks he's better than non-second generation wrestlers because he believes it is in his "blood." He's been trying to take out legends left and right to purge the WWE of the veterans to ultimately create his own following of second generation stars, akin to Death Eaters trying to purge the wizard world of non-magical families. Orton, in the world of WWE is evil incarnate. This Legacy stable idea has the potential to be one of the biggest storylines in the WWE with Orton at the helm and a band of good guys as the opposition (Cena, Punk, Mysterio, etc.) but knowing the WWE, they'll screw it up and it'll fizzle out within the year of 2009.

 

[Azrael Cain]

I am of the opinion that Randy Orton is in the right place at the right time, and he very much is the right man. I remember when he first debuted in the WWE, with his messy hair and blue shorts. I remember his match with Brock on an episode of SmackDown, and I remember the arrogant flicker in his eyes when he did his news reports when he broke his arm.

I believe that the relationship Orton had with HHH and Flair has helped him tremendously. He has changed since those days of his debut, and I want to bow down to two of the greatest men in our business for changing young Randall -- Ric and Paul. Those of you who disagree, and there may be a few, go back and look at the tapes. Look at his behavior, his acting -- Randy grew. He evolved (no pun intended) into a beautiful package which is now a thrill to watch. He draws you in the same way HHH does. His psychology mimics Flair's and Hunter's. He has learned a lot from them while (on a side note) Batista is a different story entirely [to me].

As far as Orton as the "anti-hero," I am not sure if even that is the right label for him. He has crafted a really a deep and multi-layered character, it appears to me. And I think that the fans recognize the talent he possesses and the changes he has made as a result of working with Ric and Hunter. I know I like to shit on the "average fan," but amidst that crowd are people who know talent when they see it. I think Randy gets cheered because he is good, and it shines through, past the heel actions.

It's the same reason Jericho doesn't get pops, but gets booed loudly and heavily. He draws you in, he makes you want to watch.

Personally, I am higher on Orton than I have ever been. I said a few weeks ago that I was sick of seeing him on my TV in every other segment, and of course like with everything, too much is too much, but just right is just right... and Orton is. He is coming into his own, and has miles to go and years to work. He's gone far beyond what he was, and is still young -- a tremendous upside.

I look forward to being entertained by young Randall for years to come.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I think Randy is already on the brink of greatness. As others have stated, he has amazing acting skills, and therefore delivers incredible promos. His in-ring work is also very well done. His, for lack of a better word, enthusiasm in the ring draws me in. He puts so much passion into a match, and it climaxes when he begs his opponent to get up and walk into an rko, or when he pulls an rko out of nowhere. The suddenness of the move is so perfect for his character, as he can hit it at anytime and it is extremely devastating. The most understated but important part of his in-ring work, however, is his ability to sell. He is very good at selling others' offense, helping to make the matches better, which is more than I can say for other main eventers (I'm looking at you Batista).

I think the "Legacy" group furthers him as a top heel. This gives his a couple "cronies" to do all his dirty work for him, like how they kept Cena busy on Raw as he took out Batista. This also shows that backstage trusts Orton enough to help mentor young talent, which speaks a lot about how creative perceives him.

Finally, his return shows how well he plays a heel. As Orton began showing up on Raw and cutting promos before his return, the crowd cheered him since they were happy that he was coming back. Within a couple weeks, his reaction turned into more of a tweener reaction, and then after about a month (feel free to correct me if my time frames are off) he was getting full heel reaction. I think that ability to turn the fans against him without actually participating in a match speaks volumes for his abilities. I think that when all is said and done, Randy Orton's great promos and amazing in-ring abilities will have him be a sure-fire Hall-Of-Famer.

 

[Mr. TM]

As I have said for a long time, Randy Orton is the future of the WWE. Why you ask? Because he knows how to make people hate him. Recently he has come back from an injury which gives the fans a chance to pop for him. But the thing I most love about him now is his desire to be hated without having to chase the belt. The best thing for Orton is to build him up without the World Championship. The chase for the belt gets tiresome, especially when it is Orton doing the chase. Build him up as a heel, who is always lurking in the back. This will make fans want to see him. They will not get tired of him like the can of Jericho. Fans will soak in his appearances, while hating him.

 

[Milkyway!]

Ortan reminds me of the rock, in a lota ways, hes got that cocky attitude, the rock was a true heel, face (imo) he played dirty, talked dirty, but the fans loved him for it, and gave him face heat, but if you remember when the rock first joined the nation, just like randy ortan he was recieving heel heat, but they never tweaked his character (well, they started letting him talk, i guess near the end of the nation would be better, but the begenning) and he was recieving great heel heat, after a few years, and enough battles with austin, the rock, was the rock that we know today, not to mention ortan seems liable and wont leave the company for movies that i can see


my only question as to how will we ever see ortan, turn into the rock?? That, will take an austin, and i have no clue who will be ortans austin...=\ thats a thread all in itsself

 

[CENAtion]

Dare i say Randy Orton is the most over right now????

Do i believe that...no but he is damn close to Cena right now. I definitely think there is a place in wrestling for heels like Edge and Jericho but Orton is doing it so much differently than both of them. He basically comes out every week says he is the best thing going, is getting screwed but thats ok, and he then shows everyone why he is the best. He is leading Legacy to future freat things in my opinion. I also think his image is so polished off. His music fits him so well as he has that blank stare as he slowly walks to the ring. He is calculated before every move. He has that image of being fierce in the ring and relentless on his opponent. He can strike out of no where. Plus he has the image of liking to take people out with the punt kick. He has a good moveset and the RKO can come out of nowherre. His character right now in my opinion is so complete right now its awesome to watch.


Age of Orton is here to stay for many years to come , hopefully with many wars with Cena and a Mania 25 closing the show main event in the near future.