[Official] John Cena Thread

[Lil Wes]

That's because you like Orton.

No that's because of the match...

Of course you'll find everything he does in the match entertaining, or at least most of all that he does.

I don't find 5000 headlocks amazingly entertaining. But they had a point.

And excuse my knowledge, I haven't seen an Orton/Cena match in quite some time so my memory isn't as fresh as it was, but isn't selling the moves and his own gimmick a big part of the match on John's part?

He doesn't even sell well.

You can work on his knees and about 2 minutes later he'll be diving off the top rope with the stupid little legdrop thingy he does.

I doubt if he just sat there that the match would've been as good.

It wasn't good. It's one of those boring superman matches. The heel owns the face until the face comes back and wins....*Yawwwwn*.

Cena does nothing against a good worker. Why? Because he sucks.

I liked all of Orton and John's matches, and I would never say that it's only because of John that I like them. That'd be unfair to Orton.

I don't like all of them.

Cena's had like 4 matches I've enjoyed and he's been on top for 3 years.

See why I don't like him? He's boring.

 

[Papa Shango]

I've actually felt that both Orton and Cena have been doing an equally impressive job in thier matches. Everything that Wes said is kind of true, except for the fact that if you're going to say that Orton did his job by acting heelish, than you really should have to say that Cena also did his job well, seeing as he's paid to take a beating, and use moves that get pops from his core fanbase. And I would like to point out that thier match at Summerslam, IMO the best match they've had together, had very good back-and-forth action, lots of dramatic near-falls, and really, I don't think anyone had any idea as to who would win that match.
If I had to pick one over the other though, I would have to pick Cena, only because I really didn't like Orton at all, as a person or a wrestler, until his fued with Cena. And I'm glad that Orton has managed to keep his heel heat since then, and I've really come to enjoy his work recently. But I feel like his fued with Cena gave him something that he didn't have before, an "x factor", a certain something, or, to quote Dr. Evil, "What the French call, 'I don't know what.'".
One last thing. Orton is NOT in the top 5 talkers in WWE. He fucks up on the live mic so consistently, I've set my watch by it. Cena, whether you like what he says on the mic or not, and admitedly I also sometimes cringe at some of things he's made to say, Cena is much more comfortable on the mic than Orton, he's more charismatic on the mic. Whereas Orton almost always sounds like he's reading from a script, at least with Cena he has the natural flow where it sounds like what he is saying are his own words. Top 5 talkers in WWE are really
1. Chris Jericho- He's just like The Rock, entertaining 24/7, even if you know his routine

2. Edge- has always been great on the mic, and has only gotten better as his star has risen

3. Cena- for all the reasons I already stated.

4. HHH/HBK- tied, mainly cuz as faces, they act pretty much the same, and as such, talk the same. Not that that's a bad thing, no, it's a good thing.

5.Santino Marella- microphone gold. The only reason he's not higher on this list is because his mic skills only get him so far, and have yet to truly pay off in terms of a push. He hasn't had much to do since Austin. And he rarely wrestles. So he talks. But like i said, he hasn't truly had the chance to show off his mic skills.

Kennedy's dropped in my book recently. Ever since he's been booked to be more serious, more obsessive, his promos have become, I guess the woed would be monotonous. "I'm the future, I'm gonna prove it against fill-in-the blank". He was better when he was allowed some humor.

 

[Slyfox696]

Despite being carried by Orton like 4 times already...

If you think Cena was carried, you don't know what it means to carry someone.

A year ago now.

Get the fuck over it.

I'll remember this...

I also seem to have forgotten the firemans carry was such a devatastating maneuever.

And the STFU? You know, the move that made Edge pass out at Unforgiven?

All of his matches with HBK were average. Blew his matches with that god awful of a ring worker Cena to hell and back.

Wait wait...did you just say that Kennedy vs. HBK was better than Cena vs. HBK? Honestly?

If that's what you said, then I suggest you back out of this thread with your tail between your legs, because that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen you say.

I don't care if you love Kennedy (terrible), and hate Cena, to say that Cena vs. HBK wasn't as good good as Kennedy vs. HBK disqualifies you from having an opinion.

What? I've watched ejaculations more entertaining than Cena vs any random schmuck.

Why are you watching men ejaculate? Is there something you need to tell us?

Buyrates decreased.

No, they didn't. Average buyrates increased in 2007 over 2006, and total PPV revenue has increased every year since 2003, with the exception of last year, where total revenue was down, but average revenue per show was up (meaning the only reason total revenue was down was due to the missing PPV).

Don't make stuff up Wes, especially since you have the information.

Meh, Orton was in control throughout almost every match they have had so far, Orton kept doing cheap headlocks for cheap heat, Orton was doing taunts, sold better, still kept the heelish character going by heelish tactics.

All Cena did was take it and sell until he made the superman comeback and 5 moves of doom each time.


*Yawn*

Orton was what made the matches entertaining.

C'mon Wes, even you are not that shortsighted. Do you not realize that Orton's heelish tactics mean nothing if Cena doesn't sell them? That people don't care if Orton is wrestling Super Crazy? Cena made Orton look good in that match because he sold his offense so darn well.

That was a good match because both guys played their part and played it well.

See Wes, there's this thing in wrestling called "storytelling". You might not have heard of it, but it's where the wrestlers put on a story in the ring, to draw the viewers into the match to care about the characters. That's what Orton and Cena were doing. It was the classic good vs. evil scenario that you see on TV, in the movies, and in wrestling. The good guy starts off well, then the evil guy gets in control and does bad things for the majority of the program, until the end when the good guy finally figures out how to thwart evil.

It draws, it's entertaining and it works. And that's what Orton and Cena did.

That's because you like Orton. Of course you'll find everything he does in the match entertaining, or at least most of all that he does. And excuse my knowledge, I haven't seen an Orton/Cena match in quite some time so my memory isn't as fresh as it was, but isn't selling the moves and his own gimmick a big part of the match on John's part? I doubt if he just sat there that the match would've been as good.

Precisely. And it's also what makes Orton look good as well. Maybe Wes doesn't understand that because he's ignorant to what wrestling is about. I think Wes just looks at the superficial part of wrestling and doesn't begin to appreciate the depth and aesthetic pleasure of wrestling.

I've actually felt that both Orton and Cena have been doing an equally impressive job in thier matches. Everything that Wes said is kind of true, except for the fact that if you're going to say that Orton did his job by acting heelish, than you really should have to say that Cena also did his job well, seeing as he's paid to take a beating, and use moves that get pops from his core fanbase.

See Wes? Others understand.

One last thing. Orton is NOT in the top 5 talkers in WWE. He fucks up on the live mic so consistently, I've set my watch by it.

I agree. Orton is underrated as can be in the ring, but his mic skills are not good.

He doesn't even sell well.

You can work on his knees and about 2 minutes later he'll be diving off the top rope with the stupid little legdrop thingy he does.

When?

 

[Lil Wes]

If you think Cena was carried, you don't know what it means to carry someone.

Not really. Wikipedia is my source so yeah.

I'll remember this...

???

And the STFU? You know, the move that made Edge pass out at Unforgiven?

Boring match BTW.

And I didn't knock on the STFU, I actually like the move.

Wait wait...did you just say that Kennedy vs. HBK was better than Cena vs. HBK? Honestly?

Christ Sly. Don't try to make me look like a complete utter clown.

No, I mean Kennedy vs HBK matches were better than the Cena vs Kennedy matches. Come on Sly. You know better

If that's what you said, then I suggest you back out of this thread with your tail between your legs, because that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen you say.

If I had meant that and was serious, I'd tell Jonny to IP ban me.

I don't care if you love Kennedy (terrible),

I don't love Kennedy. I like him but I realize he's got away to go.

and hate Cena,

Understatement.

to say that Cena vs. HBK wasn't as good good as Kennedy vs. HBK disqualifies you from having an opinion.

Agreed and for any bozo out there that actually thinks that. Do us all a favor and jump off a cliff.

Sly, Seriously, I'm not that ignorant. Sure my lightbulb may be dying out, but it's not pitch black in that head of mine yet.

Why are you watching men ejaculate? Is there something you need to tell us?

I watch porn. What's so bad about that?

No, they didn't.

Meh, from that one site that has all the archived ratings, buyrates and all that.

They did. I posted it for you like a month ago, plus, with all these reports on the buyrates from Cena's disapperance, and revenue. All of it went up...Hmmm.

Triple H = Big Draw.

Don't make stuff up Wes, especially since you have the information.

That file wouldn't load for me. So I have to use wrestling sites for my source.

C'mon Wes, even you are not that shortsighted. Do you not realize that Orton's heelish tactics mean nothing if Cena doesn't sell them?

True but it's Orton's job to do the best he can to get the crowd to boo him. He tried. It doesn't always work when facing someone so "controversial".

That people don't care if Orton is wrestling Super Crazy? Cena made Orton look good in that match because he sold his offense so darn well

Disagreed. Orton looked good in that match because he did. He carried Cena to a good match. Cena did nothing.

That was a good match because both guys played their part and played it well.

Average match but it's gets boring when you see the same thing over and over. It's like watching re-run's of Fresh Prince. You need to add a special show based around Hilary every now and then to spice it up. WWE lacks that Hilary, and Cena isn't it.

See Wes, there's this thing in wrestling called "storytelling".

*Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn*

It draws, it's entertaining and it works. And that's what Orton and Cena did.

Can't disagree there. Only on the entertaining part though. It's ok and all at first but 3 years of it is nausating. But you can't deny Orton held his own and did a damn fine job. People underrate him when talking about his work compared to Edge, HHH, Cena etc..5 months ago people were all over his dick, now they have hopped off and are riding someone else's. It's mind boggling.

I think Wes just looks at the superficial part of wrestling and doesn't begin to appreciate the depth and aesthetic pleasure of wrestling.
See Wes? Others understand.

No, I just like to be entertained. And Cena doesn't attract entertainment to my brain. He's bland, boring and too repetetive for me too like him.

I agree. Orton is underrated as can be in the ring, but his mic skills are not good.

What? They are well done. Hell beyond well done. Edge and JBL are the only ones better.

When?

Example Sly. If I had actually watched him closely move by move (in the the opponent's case of course) I'd tell you one recently since his return. I can't. But I do know he has looked horrible since coming back. At NWO mostly.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not really. Wikipedia is my source so yeah.

Then I bow to you.

???

Boring match BTW.

And I didn't knock on the STFU, I actually like the move.

It was a good and entertaining match, although not my favorite that they did.

Well, you were just saying bad things about Cena's finisher, so yeah.

Christ Sly. Don't try to make me look like a complete utter clown.

Usually don't have to try...

No, I mean Kennedy vs HBK matches were better than the Cena vs Kennedy matches. Come on Sly. You know better

Hard to compare because Cena hasn't had a PPV match with Kennedy.

Understatement.

You're kidding...

Meh, from that one site that has all the archived ratings, buyrates and all that.

They did. I posted it for you like a month ago, plus, with all these reports on the buyrates from Cena's disapperance, and revenue. All of it went up...Hmmm.

No, you are wrong. The average buyrate of PPVs went DOWN, with Cena gone, and that included the monster No Mercy buyrate that came because there was a guaranteed new champions. I have posted my proof.

That file wouldn't load for me. So I have to use wrestling sites for my source.

You couldn't download it, or couldn't open it?

True but it's Orton's job to do the best he can to get the crowd to boo him. He tried. It doesn't always work when facing someone so "controversial".

I'm not faulting Orton's heel psychology, I'm saying that his heel psychology means nothing if Cena doesn't use face psychology.

Disagreed. Orton looked good in that match because he did. He carried Cena to a good match. Cena did nothing.

You mean other than make Orton's offense look strong, draw the crowds interesting through his selling, and make them explode when he made his comeback?

Average match but it's gets boring when you see the same thing over and over. It's like watching re-run's of Fresh Prince. You need to add a special show based around Hilary every now and then to spice it up. WWE lacks that Hilary, and Cena isn't it.

When was the last time you saw a match like that from Cena, that didn't include Khali?

*Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn*

I should make a wrestling moves training video for people like you. Apparently, I'd make a killing.

Can't disagree there. Only on the entertaining part though. It's ok and all at first but 3 years of it is nausating.

It's always entertaining, regardless of who does it or where it happens. Good vs. Evil always sells.

But you can't deny Orton held his own and did a damn fine job. People underrate him when talking about his work compared to Edge, HHH, Cena etc..5 months ago people were all over his dick, now they have hopped off and are riding someone else's. It's mind boggling.

I agree. Orton is a fine wrestler.

No, I just like to be entertained. And Cena doesn't attract entertainment to my brain. He's bland, boring and too repetetive for me too like him.

And Rey is the same thing to me, doesn't mean I don't recognize the positive things he does in a match.

What? They are well done. Hell beyond well done. Edge and JBL are the only ones better.

Someone who stutters constantly, cannot put more than three words together at a time, who never changes voice dynamics and says basically the same thing every time out is not what I consider to be a good mic worker.

Just off the top of my head? Cena, HBK, HHH, Edge, JBL, Santino, Jericho, Mickie, Regal, MVP, Striker, the Miz and CM Punk are all better on the mic.

Example Sly. If I had actually watched him closely move by move (in the the opponent's case of course) I'd tell you one recently since his return. I can't. But I do know he has looked horrible since coming back. At NWO mostly.

Haven't seen NWO so cannot comment on that. But, if Cena was so terrible at selling, one would think you wouldn't have so much trouble coming up with something.

 

[motleyfan]

while i am not at all a cena fan i really liked what he said about the rock. those thoughts have been in my head since he quit. i remember back when steve austin left and they did the whole he took his ball and went home gimmick, the rock came out and said he'd be in wrestling till he was an old man in the ring saying lets bring it.so i give wigger cena credit for that

 

[Mallan]

He catches so much shit beause he has been champion for forever, and even though he loses the belt on occassion, he never leaves the title scene, nor does he stay away from the belt for more than a month or two.

People in general get tired of one guy always being on top anyways. Jarret is hated for hogging the title, HHH was hated for it

I totally agree, when someone is in your face for so long it can become boring and fans will turn on you. A few years back when HHH was the champ for what seemed like forever it was much the same

 

[Danmen001]

Honestly, I used to be a huge Cena mark. Now though, I am not for or against him, I am prettty nuetral now, this site has turned me to the dark side.

What is interesting about Cena is that when he starts to get uber-booed, is whnever he starts to brawl, and good example is the rumble, he was brawling with Henry, and he got booed, which proves how much they hate the brawling. I reckon he should brawl alot less, but still do it occasionally, just to keep the brawl aspect about him. Cena is a great worker though, and you can't deny he gets people talking, for exaple this site when he came back, was almost talked about in spam ammounts. I hope thye wont have the HHH cena fued for too long after mania.

 

[Starchild]

Alright, so for my opinion on the matter. I like Cena, there I said it. He's not my fav, but I like him. Every single argument that people have against him is just pointless. That is how ALL of the big guys have been. Hogan, Rock, Austin, Michaels...they do the same thing over and over and over again. Rock especially had like 5-10 moves as well...spinning ddt, samoan drop, people's elbow, spinebuster, rock bottom, the spitting punch. Not to say I didn't like him, I loved the Rock..the man was pure gold and I hate that he left so early but I got over it. Austin and the Rock are done..Angle may never be back, Taker and Kane are getting towards the end of their careers, Jericho is now back..it's changing. Attitude era was clearly the best, but it's long over now. Cena IS the WWE right now. Lashley was gonna get pushed big time, but with him gone it's Cena. Edge is def. a top guy and Batista carries it, but he is rather old too. Then of course Orton and HHH, one of which will be done in the next 10-15 years if that long. Cena's match are no more boring than some of the Attitude guys who did the same thing again and again, even Austin with defying the boss all the time. And you guys know we all loved it. I just don't get the whole Cena thing..he's not turning heel, he'd be terrible at it..he's a natural face. Just like Rock and Austin, though Rock could play a heel, but at the end he was just too damn popular to do so.
Whether anyone likes it or not, barring some unforeseen circumstances, Cena, Orton, and Edge are the future of the company. They are the Rock and Austin's of now.

 

[Slyfox696]

What is interesting about Cena is that when he starts to get uber-booed,

No, he gets uber-booed because "smarks" realize that this is what they have to do, else they'll have their smark card pulled and can no longer be cool.

is whnever he starts to brawl, and good example is the rumble, he was brawling with Henry, and he got booed,

The Rumble is a great example. When he first came out, that place was HOT. They popped huge. And then the light bulb went on, and they remembered "Oh yeah, I'm supposed to boo this guy in order to not be a kid or a woman". So people boo him. Really had nothing to do with style. Hell, EVERYONE in the Rumble works a brawling style. EVERYONE.

which proves how much they hate the brawling.

Brawling is not the problem. The biggest draws in American history have all been brawlers. The problem is this notion that in order to considered "smart" to the business you have to boo Cena. Really has nothing to do with anything else.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I don't weigh in on the Cena stuff terribly often, but a thought occured to me. With John Cena, here you have a guy who has been doing things THE RIGHT WAY. The same Smarky fans whom SlyFox referenced in his post are the ones who supports the Randy Ortons and Jeff Hardy's of the world. Tremendous imbalance there. Both have been suspended for wellness and conduct violations, where as Cena works his ass off to make his booking dates, shoot his 2nd film, do EVERY bit of work he can with the troops, and stay in great shape.

Cena-haters claim he is a backstage kiss ass. So what? I am a kiss-ass at my job, and it makes my life easier and better. Cena doesn't make stupid waves with management - he does his job, he goes above and beyond, and when he needs to keep his mouth shut he does it. Every major corporation in the US would cut off a testicle for an employee like John Cena, with his work ethic and compatability.

Cena-haters claim he does the same shit over and over again. Well, once again I will reference business. Think of your local coffee shop. They post hours on the doors, and every day, someone arrives to open the shop. Say it's at 5:30 am. They brew fresh coffee the minute they walk in the doors so early commuters can stop in for a fresh cup. Now, say one day the shop stays closed until 7:00 am. Those commuters expect their fresh cup of coffee at 6:00 am, but the store is closed. Do you think they are excited and happy that the store is "trying something new?" When something works well, why change it for the sake of change? Cena has a few moves he does consistently. So did Bret Hart (inverted atomic drop, clothesline, 2nd rope elbow, sharpshooter), Steve Austin (Lou Thesz press, kicks in the corner, stunner), Hulk Hogan (hulk up, shake, point, punch, big boot or bodyslam, legdrop) The Rock (spine buster, DDT, People's Elbow, Rock Bottom) and so many others like HHH and The Undertaker. Consistency works, get over it.

I will never tell someone who to like and who not to like. I have gone against the grain for years. But don't whine that "Cena Sucks" when clearly he does not. It's ridiculous.

 

["Rush" GSP]

I don't weigh in on the Cena stuff terribly often, but a thought occured to me. With John Cena, here you have a guy who has been doing things THE RIGHT WAY. The same Smarky fans whom SlyFox referenced in his post are the ones who supports the Randy Ortons and Jeff Hardy's of the world. Tremendous imbalance there. Both have been suspended for wellness and conduct violations, where as Cena works his ass off to make his booking dates, shoot his 2nd film, do EVERY bit of work he can with the troops, and stay in great shape.

Cena-haters claim he is a backstage kiss ass. So what? I am a kiss-ass at my job, and it makes my life easier and better. Cena doesn't make stupid waves with management - he does his job, he goes above and beyond, and when he needs to keep his mouth shut he does it. Every major corporation in the US would cut off a testicle for an employee like John Cena, with his work ethic and compatability.

Cena-haters claim he does the same shit over and over again. Well, once again I will reference business. Think of your local coffee shop. They post hours on the doors, and every day, someone arrives to open the shop. Say it's at 5:30 am. They brew fresh coffee the minute they walk in the doors so early commuters can stop in for a fresh cup. Now, say one day the shop stays closed until 7:00 am. Those commuters expect their fresh cup of coffee at 6:00 am, but the store is closed. Do you think they are excited and happy that the store is "trying something new?" When something works well, why change it for the sake of change? Cena has a few moves he does consistently. So did Bret Hart (inverted atomic drop, clothesline, 2nd rope elbow, sharpshooter), Steve Austin (Lou Thesz press, kicks in the corner, stunner), Hulk Hogan (hulk up, shake, point, punch, big boot or bodyslam, legdrop) The Rock (spine buster, DDT, People's Elbow, Rock Bottom) and so many others like HHH and The Undertaker. Consistency works, get over it.

I will never tell someone who to like and who not to like. I have gone against the grain for years. But don't whine that "Cena Sucks" when clearly he does not. It's ridiculous.

Wow....perfectly said i could not agree more. If its not broke dont fix it. Its not like he is getting booed out of the building he gets cheered too. The man is the definition of great worker and work ethic. Never hear one bad thing said about him and always gives everything he has out there. To me i think since he's come back, during the ends of matches when he gains momentum before he gets a win he and the other guy look a little winded but he fights through that and steps to the plate. I think it was against Kennedy, a guy who has been ative for awhile now and Cena gained momentum at the end and both guys looked winded and i could remember seeing Cena say "come on" to Kennedy. I took it as Cena carrying Kennedy to the end of the match and not lettin it look sloppy and slow. This coming from a guy just off injury, filming a movie, and being the face of a company with the troops and commercials ect. The man is exactly what any pro wrestling organization would want. I guarantee if TNA had a choice between either John Cena or Kurt Angle, they would take Cena over and over again. Angle is def a better wrestler, but Cena is hands down a better performer and entertainer. The man is in the lime light and giving the company a face to have in the ainstream hes doing exactly what he should be.

Hell just look on all the forums in here, which one has the most posts?

 

[bambam_651]

Cena on the mic is a very entertaining guy...but that sure doesnt make up for his lack of wrestling skills! I hate when they push guys who cant wrestle! I feel as a heel Cena would be way more effective. Listen to the people that actually do cheer for him..they are mostly composed of kids and females..no matter how many cities he gets booed in they still dont change from thier stance. Also they should have this guy get a wrestling coach or something...his sucky version of the STF irritates the hell outta me every time I see it and his pathetic firemans carry..gimme a break...no way he should wear that world title again!

 

[Slyfox696]

Cena on the mic is a very entertaining guy...but that sure doesnt make up for his lack of wrestling skills!

How do you figure he has a lack of wrestling skills?

I hate when they push guys who cant wrestle!

Cena can't wrestle? What the hell is that I watch him do once a month on PPV and every week on Raw?

Listen to the people that actually do cheer for him..they are mostly composed of kids and females..no matter how many cities he gets booed in they still dont change from thier stance.

Listen to the people that actually do boo him. They are all males in the 16-25 age range.

Also they should have this guy get a wrestling coach or something...his sucky version of the STF irritates the hell outta me every time I see it

I highly doubt that considering Cena doesn't use an STF.

He uses an STS, an entirely different move. And if you don't know the difference between the moves, who are you to gauge if someone's wrestling ability is good or not?

 

[justinsayne]

I highly doubt that considering Cena doesn't use an STF.

He uses an STS, an entirely different move. And if you don't know the difference between the moves, who are you to gauge if someone's wrestling ability is good or not?

Well technically the STS is just another version of the STF, so it's not entirely different...

STS

Short for Stepover Toehold Sleeper and innovated by Masahiro Chono, this hold is a modified STF in which the attacker wraps his arm around the neck of the opponent in a sleeper hold instead of pulling back on the head of the opponent. It is also used by John Cena, who calls it the STFU and is modified with crossed hands and more elevation than the STF.

A variation exists in which, after applying the STS, the wrestler turns to his side, pulling the opponent on top of him, face up. This was also innovated and popularized by Masahiro Chono, who calls it the FTS.

So in a way you are both right, though Sly is more right, Cena doesn't use the STF, he is just using a different variation of the hold, which includes a sleeper instead of a face lock, though you would think that with Cena calling it the STFU, that he would be using the STF instead of the STS, but then I guess that would make too much sense now wouldn't it

 

[Slyfox696]

Well technically the STS is just another version of the STF, so it's not entirely different...



So in a way you are both right, though Sly is more right, Cena doesn't use the STF, he is just using a different variation of the hold, which includes a sleeper instead of a face lock, though you would think that with Cena calling it the STFU, that he would be using the STF instead of the STS, but then I guess that would make too much sense now wouldn't it

You just quoted Wikipedia to try and make a point. Seriously.

The only thing an STF and STS has in common is the stepover toe hold part. Everything else is different, including the effect on the opponent, and the psychology behind the hold.

A facelock has the person apply a clasped grasp across the face, usually under or ontop of the nose. Cranking back on the face causes pain in the head and the back, depending upon the grasp and how far back it is pulled.

A sleeper, in this case the STS, has the person apply his arms across the carotid arteries in the victim, cutting off blood circulation to the brain, thus depriving the person of oxygen.

Two different moves. I know you said I was more right, I just thought that should be clarified.


As far as STFU name, I think it was more of a combination to a play-on of the FU and the fact that when it was named, probably wasn't easy to tell which move he was using.

 

[Minor League Brian]

Actually, Sly, I think at first it was an STF. It may just be me, but I'm almost certain I've seen him apply both an STF and an STS when using the STFU. In the most recent memories I have of the move, though, has been an STS, but I'm almost completely positive I've seen him preform an STF.

Still though, quoting pyschology with that move really makes zero sense. First off, why have people tapping out to a sleeper? To me, they seem completely fine and active, just in extreme amounts of pain. I've yet to see one of them pass out from the Sleeper. That makes very little sense to me. Also, I rarely see him setting up the move, but then again I also rarely look for it to be set up. I just have a problem seeing him pull it out of his ass, locking it in, having the opponent scream in pain at something you quote as a sleeper, and then having them proceed to tap out by a submission from a brawler.

 

[Papa Shango]

Still though, quoting pyschology with that move really makes zero sense. First off, why have people tapping out to a sleeper?

Why have Steve Austin pass out in the Sharpshooter? Noone else has ever passed out in it. Sometimes, wrestling defies logic. Don't overthink things.

To me, they seem completely fine and active, just in extreme amounts of pain. I've yet to see one of them pass out from the Sleeper. That makes very little sense to me.

Edge passed out in the STFU at Unforgiven 06(legitimately), and Umaga passed out in it at the Royal Rumble in 07. Fact is, most submissions occur via tapout, because a tapout is more dramatic than falling asleep. The only wrestlers that come to mind that won frequently by making thier opponents pass out are Piper and Chris Masters.

 

[Lil Wes]

Why is everyone arguing over which move it is? Who cares? It's a highly effective, painful looking manuever either way blows the FU straight to hell and back. People bash Cena for lack of wrestling ability, then claim submission wrestling is where it's at but the shit on the move. Cracks me up. It's One of the better finishers in WWE at the moment IMO. People have had this argument 1000 times.

 

[peterf]

Noone is crap at wrestling because if they were they wouldnt be wrestlers would they?

A lot of people moan on how crap Cena wrestles but it depends on what type of wrestling you like isnt it i prefer: Brawler(Cena), high flyer, powerhouse(Cena aswell), they are what i prefer.

It is just another lame excuse to dislike him, but i think he is exciting to watch others dont.

What is wrestling exactly is it: High flying, submission, techinal, brawler, powerhouse.
they are all wrestling styles therefore john cena is exceptional at doing his style brawler isnt he?

 

[wotto]

Just thought i'd throw it out there... but do you think Vince is more concerned about attracting a new audience than keeping his current audience happy?.. I'll give you an example.. Now im not a John Cena Hater, i dont think he is crap.. but i dont think he is great.. to me he is just a non entity!!.. but whenever i haved watched RAW in the past 3 years he gets booed out the building by the true wrestling fans.. but Vince wants to keep him a babyface while he has his WWE films division running because he feels John Cena will bring new viewers in?.. However will he in turn drive the true WWE fans away if he keeps on shoving the babyface John Cena down our throats?.. We all know damn well Cena was at his best when he played the character of an ignorant rapper from the street.. thats what made him main event.. Is Vince trying too hard to mke Cena the poster boy of WWE when he knows damn well the true fans hate him?.. is Vince scared of losing his latin audience if he turned Rey Misterio Heel?.. it would certainly add a new dimension to Smackdown!!.. If WWE puts out a good product that the fans enjoy, then we will bring in the new viewers through word of mouth.. WWE should really listen to the fans... and not try to appeal to the non fans...

What do you guys think????

 

[FoleyIsGod]

I cant blame Vince about what he is doing. Keeping Cena on top, despite the hatred he gets from the older fans, is getting the youngsters iterested, those fans who are going to be still watching in 10 years time.

Fans who have been watching since Attitude era have declined enourmously, due to retirements(Stone Cold, Rock, Mankind were huge, now they have gone). Guys likle Hogan and Nash have simply moved into the background, coming out for the bi money matches etc.

I do not know even why I watch anymore, possibly due to nostalgia, because the current product at times is godaful. Seeing a guy like Triple H on top for 8 straight years kinda dampens my spirits, but fair play to him, he can still draw sympathy/heat for his work. I just wish more people would step upto the plator be given a chance. Such as Kane, Val Venis and Matt Hardy have been around long enough, they deserve a shot at something bigger. The ewer guys like Punk, Santino and Shelton are too waiting their chance and could probably draw huge if they are booked right.

 

[Harpa]

Yes, Cena is booed heavily by the viewers that consider themselves to be the "truest" fans of the WWE. But that doesn't mean that the WWE is driving those fans away by keeping Cena in the main event.

There are two reasons for people to watch certain wrestlers: Either you want them to win or you want to see them lose. That's the main concept of having faces and heels, and to the young male audience Cena is simply a heel. They might not like Cena, but most of them still tune in to finally see him lose, which makes watching him enjoyable for them.

People don't just watch the WWE to see wrestlers they like, they also want to see obstacles (usually heels) for their favorite wrestlers. And the best thing about Cena is that you can pretty much put him against anybody.
Usually the WWE wouldn't let two faces feud, because if the viewers like both wrestlers they don't care that much about who wins and lose interest in the matches quickly.

With Cena, however, it's different. His enemy could be Randy Orton, who is one of the best heels right now, or Triple H, one of the most popular wrestlers at the moment, and the fans would (for the most part) choose a side. All the Cena haters would root for Orton/HHH and the hardcore Cena fans would of course be on Cena's side. There's not really much in between, and that's why matches involving Cena are always interesting for the crowd, so the WWE really has tons of options on who could be his next feud partner.


Apart from all that, what's wrong with trying to attract new viewers? The WWE needs it, and if they have a bigger viewer base they might finally take some more risks again instead of always going the safe road (which they are doing right now for the most part).

 

[sub619]

i voted the very first option mostly because of his 5 moves of doom, his crappy mic skills (i cant do better), his backstage love for vince mcmahon (not that theres anything wrong with that), his 3 year main eventing status and his predictable matches. we ALL know that hes winning the belt at WM24 and if he doesnt ill throw a HUGE party and ill party like im going to die

AMEN

 

[goldplatedscream]

Cena is the front man for a reason and the reason being hes mic presents from hes early wwe career when he was coming out with rhymes to make other wrestlers like angle join in to some of the things he comes out with today not many wrestlers has the charisma to deliever the same thrills and spills since the attitude era (the rock and austin) an example of some pritty shoddy microphone work is the undertaker of late.
as for a crap move set the wwe dosent encourage the change in a wrestlers move sets like vinces baning paul london & brian kendricks 450 Splash and shooting star press on basis that they are back flips. On that concept maybe the wwe dont want cena doing moves hes unfamilliar with beacuse they dont want there front man getting injured hense hes matchs looks repeated and dull to be honest since the attutude era both raw and smackdown have gone downhill!! as for ecw! its already dead