Nakamura's Push and Was Stone Cold Right to Walk Out?

Discussion in '[Hidden] World Wrestling Entertainment' started by CrunKSinatrA, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. CrunKSinatrA

    CrunKSinatrA Pre-Show Stalwart

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    When Stone Cold refused to lose to Brock Lesnar on Monday Night Raw, Austin took his ball and went home.

    Stone Cold says he wasn't opposed to losing to Brock Lesnar, but that Austin felt losing to Brock was a big money angle that should have been built up more.

    After seeing the luke warm reaction to Shinsuke Nakamura beating John Cena on a random Smackdown, I'm starting to see Stone Cold's reasoning.

    The Nakamura/Cena match is more famous for Cena getting dropped on his head than for strapping the rocket to Nakamura's back for a big time push.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited for Shinsuke Nakamura vs AJ Styles at Wrestlemania this year.

    But beating Cena were a massive moments for CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Rusev, Kevin Owens, and AJ Styles.

    Even Alberto Del Rio's win over Cena was a bigger moment, and Cena was just going through the motions.

    Instead of losing multiple times to Jinder Mahal for an overhyped India Tour, would Nakamura have been better off doing a 2-3 PPV feud with Cena like the Kevin Owens and AJ Styles feuds?

    I'm guessing Cena's schedule must not have allowed the necessary time for a proper feud with Nakamura.

    But Nakamura also beat Randy Orton on a random Smackdown with little to no hype, and less hoopla from the audience.

    Randy Orton has had star building feuds with feuds with Mark Henry and Daniel Bryan.

    Most of us probably wish Christian would've had a stronger Heavyweight Title run because of his awesome feud with Randy Orton.

    Can you imagine the momentum Nakamura could have had going into this year's Wrestlemania if WWE had invested the Summerslam and Hell in a Cell matches into Cena/Orton feuds instead of feeding Nakamura to Jinder Mahal?

    I get a kind of Summer of Punk vibe from Nakamura's push.

    Nakamura's big deal wins over Randy Orton and John Cena were undercut by losing to Jinder Mahal, the same way Punk lost the majority of his momentum after his angles with HHH and Kevin Nash.
     
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  2. @smarkmouth

    @smarkmouth Friendly Neighborhood

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    There lies the difference between the two topics of your thread title. Austin thought he had a few more years in him on a full time schedule, so yeah, he was right to be pissed by missing out on a big money program with Brock. I don't think it justified his behaviour of walking out, but I get where he came from.

    With Cena's questionable schedule, they're squeezing in as many big money programs in a short amount of time as they can. I suspect that Cena must realize how much money he's losing by not having time to develop a feud with the likes of Nakamura or Elias. I have to imagine Cena understands that sacrifice, and understands that the choices he's made in the last few years aren't complimentary to the road schedule with WWE. I can't imagine his bank account is paying dearly for those choices.

    So yes, the lack of a substantial angle between Nakamura and Cena illustrates Stone Cold's sentiment when he walked away from WWE, but that's pretty much where this topic ends.
     
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  3. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    They're different situations entirely...

    Austin was the TOP TOP man in the company, while Cena occupied that slot, it is clear that he has not been in that spot for some time, with Brock there and Roman being groomed for it.

    Cena has had a more secondary role in his limited appearances since Wrestlemania more out of expediency - he knows that WWE needs to get new talents over before he leaves and he seems more than willing to do that. The relationship is good between Cena and WWE.

    By 2002, the Austin/WWE relationship was not so good, Austin was arguably still the most popular figure, but The Rock had begun his movie career and was gaining that mainstream momentum and so would now the "top man" while Austin had been "sacrificed" some what in the failed Invasion angle. His neck injury had limited the options Vince had to use him and these things conspired to create a grumpy rattlesnake, wary of just being cast aside having seen how quickly Bret Hart was.

    Seeing Brock destined for the rocket push would only have annoyed/worried Austin and however much he says he did the wrong thing now, at the time he made a stand which is to be applauded. Brock still got over, Austin kept his aura and more importantly, his health.

    When Cena lost to Nakamura, it was more about needing more people in the main event than replacing Cena so the issue wasn't there for him in the same way.

    In Elias' case, it's clear WWE wants to push him (anyone else seeing a new Mick Foley?) but RAW's picture is cluttered. Cena working with and putting over Elias as he did helped create the shock, but doesn't mean he won't get that win back in the Chamber... pinning Cena is a badge of honor, but a few have it now... it's not like in the past where you got that and you were 100% made. Again it's a logical step now...use Cena's star power while it is there, not to lead the show but to get as many people near to leading it as they can.
     
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  4. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    As far as Austin and Brock Lesnar goes, it's difficult to say because of what goes on in Vince's mind. Vince McMahon has been full on in love with Brock Lesnar from the first moment he laid eyes on him, he's always bent over backwards to do anything and everything to accommodate Lesnar and I wouldn't be at all surprised if, in regards to a program with Austin, Vince was simply eager to simply establish Lesnar as THE next guy, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Was Austin justified in walking away? As someone who wasn't a fly on the wall and an outsider looking in, I'd have to say no. Austin's career was all but over by the time Lesnar was on the rise, we didn't know that at the time and neither did Austin but it looks to be one of those situations in hindsight that would've shown Vince was right.

    In regards to Nakamura's push, I think Vince went cold on him for quite a while because of the botch in the match with Cena. Cena landed really nasty and he'd probably have been fifty shades of fucked up from it if he didn't have such a muscular neck. Cena didn't hold a grudge but Vince shit a solid gold brick backstage and, as you'd expect, put the blame on Nakamura. While Nakamura was the one giving the move, Cena was the one who didn't complete the flip and, if I'm not mistaken, that's the last time Nakamura has used the move so I don't think we'll see it again.

    The whole thing with Jinder Mahal will probably go down as one of the most bizarre decisions of the decade. From a purely business perspective, I can see where Vince was coming from in terms of wanting to expand the audience in India. The problem is that it seems as though all the research Vince did on it was little more than racial profiling: he put the WWE Championship, the original World Championship of the company, the title held by Sammartino, Morales, Backlund, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Hart, HBK, Austin, Rock, Taker, Lesnar, Edge, Cena, Punk, Bryan, etc. put it on someone of Indian heritage and just figured that was all it'd take to get the Indian fans on board. If his plan would've actually involved something concrete, something with some actual substance rather than just putting the title on someone of Indian descent, then it'd be easier to take seeing Nakamura lose to him. The problem was that Jinder sucked in the top spot whether it was as a character, in the ring or on the mic.
     
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  5. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    I understand Steve Austin's POV and his thoughts were correct and smart. It could have been better had they built-up a bigger angle with Brock Lesnar and Stone Cold, instead of having Lesnar beat Ausin in a TV match. But Austin was wrong to walk out because at the end of the day, it's not his company, it's Vince McMahon's company. Austin could have talked to Vince about that, he could have come back earlier and actually do a program with Brock like he wanted. But he didn't.

    So with that being said, I don't really believe Austin. Austin was fed up with the postition he had in 2002. He had lost to Y2J, his match at Mania was 3rd/4th in order from the top as a headlining match, then he lost to Taker and then had a programm with Ric and he was facing midcarders while Rock, Angle, Taker, Hogan and HHH were playing in the main event.

    But maybe he's telling the truth. But he definately had no right to walk out.

    On Nakamura vs Cena now, yeah, it could have been a bigger match on a bigger stage, but here's the deal. They had botched Nakamura's debut by having him struggle against Dolph Ziggler and have him not seem special at the MITB Ladder match. They needed something. Enter Cena. You can ask, why not have Nakamura and Cena face each other at Summerslam? Well because, Cena had to win at Summerslam because he was going to face Reigns at the next PPV. Those were their plans. It all comes down to planning. So Nakamura had to win something big, so he defeated Cena in a #1 contender's match.

    If it was me, I'd just have Cena return 1 week earlier and work Money In The Bank. He would lose to Nakamura there. I didn't mind that it was a one-off match. I don't really think a face vs face angle can work as a long running feud with multiple matches between the two. But it needed a bigger spotlight for sure.
    On the other hand, Smackdown also needed some light at the time, because it was in the shits ever since Orton had won the title.
     
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  6. therockiswwf

    therockiswwf The voice of Michael Cole's headset

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    Austin was in really bad physical shape at the time. I think that played a bigger role in his walk out than he really wants to admit because maybe it would seem like he's making an excuse. Stone Cold was right that losing out of the blue would be stupid. Wrong for walking out though.

    The reason Naka beating Cena meant nothing was due to a lack of a story. The win didn't really mean much. It didn't lead to anything. No one was impacted by the win. No one was impacted by the loss. No one gained anything. No one was emotionally invested into it.

    If Brock was going to be springboarded into something after beating Austin, then sure it might have worked. If it was shock for the purpose of shock, then it wouldn't have worked.
     
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  7. Papa Pillman

    Papa Pillman I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan

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    The reason why Nakamura's wins against Cena and Orton are so irrelevant now is because they were simply tools to set up losses to a fringe talent curtain-jerker who was miscast as world champ.

    Also both matches were abbreviated affairs that lasted about eleven or twelve minutes. Nakamura beating Cena or Orton on a random SmackDown could've meant something if the matches themselves were given the twenty-plus minute barnburner epic treatment that true dream matches of that caliber deserve; and if they had set up Nakamura squashing Jinder on PPV to save the WWE title from the obscurity that Jinder lent it. If played in that manner, we would be seeing Nak beating Cena, for example, as the rocket-on-his-back moment that it should've been, no matter if it did occur with short build on weekly TV.
     
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  8. geese899

    geese899 New Member

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    I agree. When Balor beat Reigns clean to go to Summerslam, and then beat Rollins, it all felt like part of a huge monumental push (whoops) and so it was super well done. Although it is satisfying to go back and watch Naka/Cena.
     
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  9. thebarber

    thebarber Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Austin at the time had handpicked Eddie Guerrero for his next feud, they even aired footage of them in a bar teasing conflict.
    Having Austin in a KOTR qualifier match made no sense to begin with, let alone not advertising it. Giving that away was idiotic. Work towards Lesnar going over Austin at Summerslam though, I am sure Austin is all for it. People forget how Austin was booked in the months leading to his walk out. He was one of the final 4 in the Rumble, lost to Jericho then assaulted by the nWo at No Way Out, mid card match with Hall at Mania X8(after he refused to work with Hogan), Backlash he lost to Undertaker, thenmid card handicap matches with Flair and Big Show. He knew he was being moved along, but his attitude gave The Rock huge money matches with Hogan at WMX8 and Lesnar at Summerslam. The booknig of Austin could have been alot better, but zero excuse for walking out like he did. The Guerrero fued would have been epic, and it left him in the lurch, two months after returning from his stint on the indys and getting his life back in order.

    Cena on the other hand, different times. PPVS every few weeks, Cena isnt the top guy anymore. And with so few spots on ppvs now, the multi man match is taking over, so dream matches are few and far between, so having them on raw and smackdown appears the only way we will get to see them
     
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  10. FromGlasgow

    FromGlasgow Championship Contender

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    I think it was disapointing considering their history from WCW that the Steve Austin vs Hollywood Hogan never took place, Could have potentialy been the greatest match of all time but we will never know now, WWE should have done all they can to push for it.
    As for the question I understood when he left, I can't understand why the WWE weren't willing to negotiate at least and delay the match against Brock for a PPV, I knew hs career was kind of winding down anyway at this point but would have liked to have seen him continue on in a non wrestling role perhaps as the commissioner of RAW or a commentator for a while as he was good on commentary on the celebrity deathmatch show he used to do.
    Also I don't mind Nakamura's push at least their trying something different and I am looking forward to the AJ Styles and him at Wrestlemania.
     
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  11. AndrewC316

    AndrewC316 Dark Match Jobber

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    I think Austin walking out was necessary for him at the time, did you know he was booked for nother match in 2005 that he walked out of too? It was against the coach, I made a video about it here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhxG36mio2w
     
    #11

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