*MERGED* [OFFICIAL] Undertaker vs Kane discussion

[goldbergiswrestling]

This upcoming match will likely be Heavy hit after Heavy hit with both guys wondering exactly what they need to do to put the other down. There will be the double goozle moment. The reversed Tombstone. The kick out of the Tombstone. The countered old school. The countered Big Red Clothesline. And ultimately, The Undertaker victory.

Because, this is the biggest reason I don't want to see the match that badly, an Undertaker win is inevitable. Kane never beats him so what's the point in anticipating it?

I agreed with u up untill this point while the match its self might be similar I dont think it will be exactly the same. for 1 reason, as stated before this is Kanes only real championship reign. If they can continue this untill wrestlemania, with Kane remaining champion this will be the first time Undertaker has faced a champion Kane. and for 2, this is most likely Undertakers last wrestlemania, I think if the undertaker never looses at wrestlemania it will be a waisted opportunity to help give someone a major MAJOR push. for 3, if unertaker were to loose at wrestlemania, who better to loose to than Kane. what was a bigger fued in Undertakers career than Kane? especially his biggest fued with someone who will most likely be around while to benefit from this push?

 

[dman1373]

they have had like 5 telivised matches. I'm pretty sure stone cold beat the rock like 20 times before his famous match at wm x7. So this match won't be as predictable as you think.

 

[Tyrath]

Several months ago, I really wasn't keen on the idea of Kane and The Undertaker feuding. Personally, I would have loved if it had been The Nexus that took out The Undertaker. However, Kane has sold me on the feud. He's been solid gold on the mic over the course of the past few months and he's possibly doing the best work of his career. A feud with The Undertaker at this particular point could be interesting overall.

Since Taker has been in a "vegetative state", he's not the same. According to actual reports, Taker has only recently been given clearance to start working out again. That's why he looked so out of shape at SummerSlam. Going by the vegetative state storyline, Taker is weaker now than he's ever been. He's not as strong or as fast. He's vulnerable and that could have some interesting possibilities over the course of the feud. With Taker no longer being this "supernatural" force in the same league as his brother due to the attack, it could lead to a broadening of The Undertaker's character.

Not saying that it'll happen, but the potential for an overall interesting feud is there.

This is essentially the way I feel about this feud also. When Kane first came out with the news of the Undertaker in a vegetative state, I was afraid like many others that in the end it'd be revealed that it was Kane who attacked him. "Not this crap again" I said in my head. Kane vs Undertaker has been done so many times, and Kane always loses, its the same thing everytime.

But then WWE shocked us all by having Kane win the Heavyweight title. Not only that, since this feud started Kane has been doing one amazing promo after another. Kane has single handedly made me interested in this feud that I was ready to dismiss before it even happened. I know this will probably end the same way as usual with the Undertaker eventually winning, but the two have never fought for the belt and I'm somewhat interested to see it. It'll be a nice end to their rivalry if their final match is at Hell in a Cell, the match where it all started nearly 13 years ago.

 

[CJ The Pirate]

This arguement is beginning to bore me. So Kane Vs The Undertaker has only happened five times where as feuds like The Rock and Austin or Edge and Cena have happened many times more than that but there is a significant difference. While Undertaker might be regarded as one of the best in the biz, Kane falls short by a long way.

We wanted to see The Rock and Austin as much as possible. Same with Edge and Cena. They're feuds featuring to of the best in the biz at the time. Either one of them men can, and have, be the star of the show on numerous occasions. Kane just doesn't have that wow factor that is really required.

In response to 'Goldbergiswrestling', I just can't see this feud staying interesting for another 7 months. To be honest, I can't see them planning a feud with The Undertaker lasting 7 months as he's never sure to remain uninjured. Even it it did, there has been no signs that this is Undertaker's final year... to be honest, it's generally thought that Taker will have at least 2 more left in him. And again, even it this was the case, losing to Kane would be a terrible idea for his bow. It would benefit nobody. As you said, Undertaker losing at WM would be a tremendous opportunity to give someone a massive push. Kane doesn't need nor deserve that push. Kane is as close to retirement as the Undertaker is, if not closer and is already a multiple time world champion. Younger guys need this push much more and it'd be wise of the WWE to really build someone up starting now, if not yesterday, to actually be a believable threat to the Undertaker. We have to truly believe that this guy can do what Triple H, Shawn Michaels and 15 others have failed to do. He has to do it against a 100% Undertaker as an injury angle just won't wash. That's a big ask.

 

[goldbergiswrestling]

In response to 'Goldbergiswrestling', I just can't see this feud staying interesting for another 7 months. To be honest, I can't see them planning a feud with The Undertaker lasting 7 months as he's never sure to remain uninjured. Even it it did, there has been no signs that this is Undertaker's final year... to be honest, it's generally thought that Taker will have at least 2 more left in him. And again, even it this was the case, losing to Kane would be a terrible idea for his bow. It would benefit nobody. As you said, Undertaker losing at WM would be a tremendous opportunity to give someone a massive push. Kane doesn't need nor deserve that push. Kane is as close to retirement as the Undertaker is, if not closer and is already a multiple time world champion. Younger guys need this push much more and it'd be wise of the WWE to really build someone up starting now, if not yesterday, to actually be a believable threat to the Undertaker. We have to truly believe that this guy can do what Triple H, Shawn Michaels and 15 others have failed to do. He has to do it against a 100% Undertaker as an injury angle just won't wash. That's a big ask.

I agree it is unlikely to last but u never know. however I disagree with u saying Kane doesnt need a push, look at his career, short bursts of greatness with large ammounts of nothing between them. Kane could use it as he finally did what he has tried multiple times to accomplish. You dont want to give this push to somebody to young if you arent sure they will hang around, Kane has proven his loyalty to WWE. Kane although only a few years younger than the undertaker he is in better physical condition, he takes less time off for injury and I think he will be around awhile longer, but even if he doesnt need it, did HBK need to retire flair? no. did undertaker need to retire HBK? no. Undertaker has no deeper more emotional history with anybody other than Kane, except maybe Paul Bearer. and as for kane being a multiple time champion, yea technically but his first championship run was barely a championship run as he lost it the next night

 

[MOExecution]

To be honest...
I am one of those people that if we have seen it before I can go without seeing it again. We have seen these guys face off at WrestleMania XX and multiple times before that. Do we honestly need to see them go at it again? Like what the poster said they have had decent matches, but nothing over the top. Both men are older... Both men's bodies are more bruised... Both men are fragile... And honestly I can only see a disaster before our very eyes when these two face off. First off, we knew the attacker would turn out to be Kane (big shocker there) so there was no element of surprise. I hope this feud ends once and for all where it all began inside of a Hell in a Cell and I hope once they have this match inside the Hell in a Cell that it is put to rest once and for all. And if I am honest I can see Kane retiring after they have their in the Hell in a Cell. This has been a feud/match years in the making and it will finally go down! And this will prove who the better brother is once and for all!

 

[Vincent Michaels]

I've got to say that i'm excited for this fued! I only got into wrestling in 06, so I never saw their original fued or any other revisit to their fued(thank god for DVD so I learned and caught up fast). One thing to gain from this fued is, Taker is weak, so Kane could finally beat him and keep the upperhand in the fued until the end when Taker finally gets the win. Kane's promos have been epic lately and with him revealing this master plan, this fued can be seen as the ultimate end!

 

[CJ The Pirate]

I agree it is unlikely to last but u never know. however I disagree with u saying Kane doesnt need a push, look at his career, short bursts of greatness with large ammounts of nothing between them. Kane could use it as he finally did what he has tried multiple times to accomplish. You dont want to give this push to somebody to young if you arent sure they will hang around, Kane has proven his loyalty to WWE. Kane although only a few years younger than the undertaker he is in better physical condition, he takes less time off for injury and I think he will be around awhile longer, but even if he doesnt need it, did HBK need to retire flair? no. did undertaker need to retire HBK? no. Undertaker has no deeper more emotional history with anybody other than Kane, except maybe Paul Bearer. and as for kane being a multiple time champion, yea technically but his first championship run was barely a championship run as he lost it the next night

I'm not saying that Kane doesn't deserve a push but he doesn't deserve THAT push. He's also getting what he deserves for his loyalty now with this title reign. Looking at how this storyline is building, I expect Kane to go over Undertaker at NOC but not clean. This will then lead to Hell in a Cell where Taker will win.

I have gone away and took some time to think how they could get this feud to end at wrestlemania however. The Royal Rumble is, for Kane, a thing he has been so dominant in but never won. A victory could set up this match, taking on a champion Undertaker. It would be a nice thing to hand to Kane and something he'd deserve, justification for all his efforts in past rumbles but I just can't see it happening. I see this Rumble being won by someone young and new. Perhaps Sheamus, McIntyre or The Miz.

 

[Bill Lesnar]

Bill lesnar believs hat the kane vs The Undertaker fued could be good if done right. Bill Lesnar wants to come to ring and tell Vince himself, that Bill Lesnar thinks a HIAC withan r16 would be amazing and that the atmosphere would be amazing

 

[ToWhomItConcerns.]

i just don't get how or why ppl are complaining about "seeing this fued before". this is their first big fued together since like WMXX in 2004 and you can hardly call that a fued since it was Kane standing in the ring getting "messages" from Taker. they were only in the ring 1 time during that time

and as someone mentioned before how many times have we seen HHH/Cena, Cena/Orton, HHH/Orton, Cena/Edge, HHH/Edge, etc etc etc.

this is from this site on June 9, 2009

The following stats were derived:
1. From SummerSlam 2004 to Cyber Sunday 2006 In all Raw exclusive and multi brand PPV's Randy Orton, HHH and Cena have always been involved in World title Matches.
2. From Backlash 2007 to Extreme Rules 2009 Cena, HHH, Orton or Batista have always been involved in World title matches.
3. Randy Orton vs HHH For The world title has taken place 11 times including elimination chamber and a 3 on 3 tag.
4. Cena vs Edge for the world title has taken place 7 times on a pay-per-view.

that was last year how many times have we seen all those guys wrestle against each other again?

and i'm not saying you guys aren't complaining about those matches all i'm saying is why complain about a fued we haven't seen in 6 years when we can instead spend more time bitching about the other matches we've seen a million times since then.

 

[Miss Flawless]

^^ To whoever said that in the above person's quote, I'm gonna tell you something, okay?

1. Cena/Orton, Cena/Edge, Cena/HHH feuds have been done only ONCE. Cena/Orton was for about 2 years and same with Cena/Edge. Cena/HHH, was like, for a month. I think, I don't even remember that feud taking place. Orton/HHH is the only exception.

What we mean by "We've seen it already", is that we have seen the feud already and Kane is just gave them the same reasons over and over again.

 

[The Encore]

Am I the only person here who doesn't mind Taker vs Kane again? If they pull it off right it will be just fine. The newer audience hasn't seen that, so thats mainly why WWE is pulling this out of their asses once again, Kane and Taker have pretty good gimmick matches, and seeing how Kane has the belt right now, I hope he gives taker a nice run for his money if they WANT taker to hold the belt again. I wish for Kane to retain at NOC cleanly, then at HIAC Cheat to win then at Survivor Series have him lose it. It would make Kane have an ACTUAL GOOD run with this title.

 

[Miss Flawless]

Am I the only person here who doesn't mind Taker vs Kane again? If they pull it off right it will be just fine. The newer audience hasn't seen that, so thats mainly why WWE is pulling this out of their asses once again

I already said that. Read all the posts first. I was being 'positive' and tried to find the good parts in a Kane/Taker feud.

Since the younger audience has seen it, I don't mind. Especially because I don't watch SD! that much. Kane has really good promos these days, so that could make the feud a lot better.

 

[Starchild]

Wow, so as with most others I have been thinking for months that this entire vegetative state angle was going to have a lackluster ending with Taker returning and beating Kane. But there are a few things that have changed my mind to where I am now quite excited to see where this goes.
First off is just how big of a push Kane got. I don't just mean the world title either though that is very refreshing and well deserved. I mean the fact that he has dominated everyone for months now. And the tv time he gets. I never realized how good he really is on promos, but with the dark tone to them we've seen the last couple months he has really shined.
Still, I thought it was nice but nothing different. Until Taker returned at Summerslam and tonight on Smackdown. He is heavily selling the angle and legit looks weak and sounds it..he's really making you believe he's not what he was before. Combine that now with Kane's roll he's been on and you've got something we've never seen..Kane as the dominant force in the feud. Sure he was kinda when he debuted, but when Taker finally fought him after all those months he won. I am beginning to think that Kane might come out of this feud between the two as the winner. I certainly see him winning at NoC and I assume it'll culminate where it all begin...at Hell in a Cell.

This is NOT the typical Undertaker/Kane rivalry we've seen so many times over the years..this one has a different feel. And you can sense the finality in that it will likely be their last before both men retire. Not interested? On the contrary...I think it's now time to take interest.

 

[Carrnage7]

To whoever said earlier that taker isnt great on the mic.. your an idiot. i had to sign up on the forums jsut to post that, im sorry, but did u not see the mans promos when he was ABA and Big evil, when he confronted HHH to set up their Wrestlemania-x-7 encounter. take a look and you will see that in fact, you are dead wrong

 

[NWannabe]

I like the promos, but much like people who hate on the miz feel... once they go into the ring it becomes pretty bad pretty fast. It has such good history, but I feel like I'd like to see this as a comic book more than wrestling. I do applaud everytime Kane cuts a promo, though.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Like a lot of people in the beginning, I was afraid that this feud would follow the same formula they've done with these two feuding in the past. However, Kane has gotten a huge push over the course of this summer and has been possibly the best he's ever been. I honestly never expected Kane to win the World Heavyweight Championship but I've got no problem with it as he's worked very hard in the WWE.

At SummerSlam, Taker returned as everyone believed but he didn't lay waste to Kane as we figured he would. After all, that's what he always does when he returns. Taker suffering the physical effects of being in a "vegetative state" does add a different element to it in that Taker is vulnerable from a kayfabe perspective. Taker does look thinner, which he actually is as he hasn't been allowed until recently to get back in the gym, and the "coughing" he's been doing shows he's still kind of frail.

Overall, I'm enjoying the feud a lot but there are still ways the WWE can screw this up. I have little doubt they're going to have a match for the title at NOC and Kane needs to win that match. Not only does he need to win it, but he needs to win it clean and decisively if they want to keep the feud interesting. Having Taker get back the title at NOC will render this feud useless from there on in.

 

[KKKKwe]

So Undertaker is kind of still weak right now and we know Kane is too powerful for him, what I was thinking is do you think Paul bearer will return at Night Of Champions to either help strengthen The Undertakers "POWERS" or do you think he'll screw him over for burying him in concrete at Great american bash 04.

i would like to hear your thoughts on this Paul bearer thing.

 

[benm1989]

I like your optimism dude and I loved Paul Bearer but I honestly dont think the E will want to bring him back. I think that the concrete crypt match was the end for him and the urn i would be pleasantly surprised to see him make an appearance.
Then again you never know in the WWE maybe Paul was the one that took Takers powers with the urn lol.

 

[barclayteo]

i dont see him returning unless its like a a retirement. it would be cool to see him return but he has been gone for a while. the undertaker did look seriously weak on raw he stood in the ring for a staredown with kane and when he left he had to rest on the turnbuckle but we all know no matter how weak he is they are going to give him the title while i think kane is way more deserving does undertaker really need another title especially while kane is getting a great push.

 

[LigerBomb]

Never say never with regards to WWE. It's possible, but for what ever reason I just get the feeling it's not going to happen. Paul is out of the picture on this one. I personally just don't see it. Perhaps if this is the storyline that leads to Taker's eventual retirement then maybe, just maybe, they'll bring him back. But honestly if Taker's good to go for a couple more years and this is just one more Taker/Kane feud I don't think they'd bring "Brother Paul" back into the fold.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Honestly, i think Paul Bearer's involvement with Undertaker/Kane affairs is dead and long gone. There is just no use for that character anymore without him being repetetive and making the storyline feel like we've seen it before even more than it already does. But nice creativity on your part. But it just won't happen.

 

[MOExecution]

This feud will not last long.
I have saw somebody say, "Will it last until WrestleMania where Kane will end the streak and finally put Undertaker to rest."
WWE are going in a different direction with the feud having Kane being the most dominate out of the two at this point. Undertaker is looking weak and Kane is looking stronger than ever. But like what another thread said, "Heels are only built up so that a stronger Face can beat them." Yeah, I believe we will see a match between Kane and Undertaker with Kane winning making him look even more unstoppable and then at Hell in a Cell they will face off again and Undertaker will come out on top. My only concern with that is I HOPE that the World HeavyWeight Championship is not on the line in the Hell in a Cell IF these guys face off! Because a match of this magnitude, with this much history, doesn't need a title on the line. They should just put these two in the Cell and have them just beat each other up. This match should be the match that is the peak of their whole feud over the years and should be the match that end it. So will it go to WrestleMania one word. NO!

And another part in which I saw somebody say is that Kane will end Undertaker and retire him. I don't know why people are saying Undertaker will retire before Kane. If anything Kane will retire before Undertaker. In real life Undertaker wants Kane to end his streak at Mania, but Kane says he doesn't want to. Kane is more beat up than Undertaker is and he has one foot in the retirement home and the other on a banana peel. His retirement has been overdue for sometime. I actually believe the Undertaker will compete at this years WrestleMania where he will go 19 - 0 and then next years WrestleMania where he will go 20 - 0 and then he will retire. This is Kane's last Hoo-Rah in my opinion before he hangs up the boots. Am I enjoying the feud... Yeah, I am, but I am just tired of seeing this guys compete.

 

[CyberPunk]

Not impossible but highly improbable....personally I don't think that Paul will make any appearance even if someone is about to retire after this feud.....

 

[HBKevin]

They haven't feuded in six years, which was when "it all began again", 2004 (WM 20). I'd be willing to bet you less than half of the audience today was watching back then. It's the last big rivalry left over from the Attitude Era and I think it's a nice treat for the long-term fans, before all of the veterans leave over the next 5-10 years.