**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[vampirek]

yeah some was holding his items but nowadays there r many cm punk related item the fans r buying that r now buying his items
so it
would be business wise to turn him so the some of the haters would come back and plus we got cm punk or orton to take over @CKO

Seriously grammar, learn it.

That aside, how is it good business? Because 40% of the crowd boo him, do the maths thats still 60% cheering him and buying the merc. The figures don't lie, Cena is a cash cow for the WWE, a commercial figure that turning him pure heel and going against the principles that are on the shirts etc is bad business.

Cena at the moment, is the better Cena for both the product and the commercial figures. You keep Cena and his principals (Hustle, loyality, respect, Rise Above Hate etc) but at the same time have Cena not caring for those who boo him and in a way play a heel to them by doing everything they hate about him. A face to one part of the crowd, a heel to the other part.
Plus Cena gets the crowd going like no one else can, not Punk, Ziggler, Ryder that making him pure heel may damage that.

As for people bringing up the Austin comparison, Austin did heelish things during his face run that when he did turn heel it made little difference. Austin was still Austin, just a variation. Turning Cena heel, means changing his whole character.

 

[Loveless]

Honestly? This is bullshit. It's coming from this stupid idea that Cena is solely responsible for all PPV buys and sponsor money which is quite obviously nonsense.

 

[Cats Pajamas]

This is an interesting question...

First off, one has to wonder if they wouldn't have just been better off spreading the wealth, rather than make Cena their sole golden goose? The last couple of years, even with Batista still around, with Edge still active, we've basically just seen Cenamania running wild; I think they've put in a real half assed attempt at getting major stars ready for supercharged feuds.

At this point, it'd be really hard for me to believe they'd pull the trigger on Cena turning heel because as the crowds have proved they're not even interested in buying into a new champ. The Cena sucks shirts are kind of an interesting way to test it though.

 

[Jackal960]

To start with,

Noone can know why I bought a PPV. That is no one! Again, you can't know why I attend a live show either. If I couldn't see Cena would I still go to a live event? Hell yeah! This might change for some other guy but the fact is this: Noone can know who has what hopes when buying a PPV or attending a live event. You can only make assumptions and thats all. Merchandising is different though. But attending a live event or buying a PPV is more profitable than buying a merchandise for the company. You simply have minimal cost when you have an extra person buying a PPV or attending a live event. Profit is higher. That simply means attendance and PPV buyrates are more important for a company than how many shirts it sells

Does that mean Cena isn't selling enough or making enough money for the company? Absolutely not. But you can't measure this by throwing a figure out there. He is surely a wrestler who brings one of the highest amount money to the company, if not the highest! He is a reason for people to buy PPV's, buy merchandise, buy DVD's etc. But let's be honest here, if you are WWE's top guy, you will end up making top money. It doesn't mean that Santino can be a great title holder, but you can simply push anyone with enough move set and charisma to the main event picture and get money out of it. Would it be as much as what Cena bringing in now? Maybe not. But what I'm saying is, whatever money Cena is bringing in, someone else in his spot would have brought most of that money too. Cena is making money because A) he is John Cena but B) he is pushed to be that way. A year ago you would laugh at R-Truth, 6 months ago you wouldn' care about Henry and 2 years ago you wouldn't imagine Miz to be one of the top heels in the company. So when you give people chances by pushing them, or changing their attitude, most of them will shine. God knows what gems would be in the company, just waiting to be pushed the right way.

Everyone is replaceable. If you turn Cena heel, I am pretty sure that someone will replace him, plus Cena will continue to bring in money. All that matters is pushing the person the right way, realizing the potential of the talents.

 

[No Count Pup]

WWE is still a thriving buisness despite the departures of Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Batista, Edge, and to some extent, The Undertaker. That is a credit to John Cena's drawing ability. Cena has almost single-handedly kept WWE afloat. As gifted as CM Punk and Randy Orton are, neither of them can draw the emotion that Cena does. They try, but the only wrestler in the world that is on Cena's level is The Rock.

It is quite extraordinary to be worth $106 million to a company. Very few performers in the world of ANY profession can make that claim.

I think it is time to give Cena the respect he deserves. When one factors in wrestling acumen, mic skills, drawing power, historical significance, and fan reaction, John Cena may be the greatest wrestler of all time.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

First of all, Steele said that WWE reported that number, he didn't "come up with it" through expert analysis and number-crunching. The number is more exaggerated than the WrestleMania III number. John Cena has NOT made WWE $106 million dollars.

To them, every single rating point, every single PPV buy, and every single seat at a live event is filled by John Cena.

But the truth is that what sells is the WWE Brand, not John Cena. People couldn't care less about John Cena, not even the little kids. If WWE fired Cena tomorrow and replaced him with some new superhero, the public will accept him with open arms just like they did Hogan and Cena. He is replaceable, he is just in the right spot.

For the record, I like him for the spot. If anyone is going to do it, it should be him. The guy is a really hard worker. Kudos to him, but he isn't untouchable.

 

[akrassikauda]

But the truth is that what sells is the WWE Brand, not John Cena. People couldn't care less about John Cena, not even the little kids. If WWE fired Cena tomorrow and replaced him with some new superhero, the public will accept him with open arms just like they did Hogan and Cena. He is replaceable, he is just in the right spot.

For the record, I like him for the spot. If anyone is going to do it, it should be him. The guy is a really hard worker. Kudos to him, but he isn't untouchable.

This one statement is pretty much it. After **** ****** flew off the handle the business was under fire. Cena was already a multi time champ but he wasn't the #1 guy. Since then he has pushed the brand and made John and Jane comfortable about letting little Jimmy watch and brought back the family and PG atmosphere and families spend money he's good for the brand also he had the look the smile the right gimmick that brought advertisers. He's not untouchable,When Vince said he could create another Cena you knew he was telling the truth.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

This is a really interesting report. It is hard to know for sure how this number was derived. Any of us can argue the validity of the number but it is not going to change anything. The WWE pays financial analysts and accountants a lot of money to attibute every dollar that is coming in to different sources. Unless the analysts are monster Cena marks , they have no reason to inflate this number. The only one who benefits from such a big number is Cena come negotiation time with WWE.

For anyone that is interested in finance, I recommend that you visit WWE's website, look through their shareholder news and search for the WWE's shareholder report or 10-K. It's a pretty boring read but it should give you an idea where WWE's money comes from and goes and how much there is. It's probably your only opportunity to get an education from professional wrestling.

As far as turning Cena heel, as much as I would like to see it these numbers make it pretty obvious as to why WWE won't pull the trigger. Sure a heel Cena could turn in to the next NWO and I think Cena has the talent to play heel and bring in a tremendous amount of revenue but I don't think he is likely to do numbers like $106m.

 

[The Champ]

Honestly? This is bullshit. It's coming from this stupid idea that Cena is solely responsible for all PPV buys and sponsor money which is quite obviously nonsense.

Oh, you're a financial expert? If not, then I think I'll take the ESPN report at face value.

I've been saying for a long time that it's a dumb move to turn Cena heel unless they have someone else that they KNOW (not they think) can put up the same numbers. People seem to not understand how this works. You don't take the top guy out of his role to create a new top guy. You don't stop playing Tom Brady at quarterback so you can build a new quarterback. You wait until Brady can't do it anymore or someone comes along who is better at the job. Right now, Cena is the best at the job he's given, and as long as things remain that way, he's going to continue to be given that job. If CM Punk can become more successful, then more power to him, but that has to happen FIRST. If it doesn't, then why throw $106 million down the drain? Just to please a few smarks on the internet who will almost instantly find something else to bitch about? No. They do enough pandering to the 'net already these days.

 

[The Champ]

Okay, but CM Punk isn't really more of a "self made man" than Cena is. Just because he got to keep his indy gimmick in the big company doesn't make him more "self made."

Cena was never penned to be the top guy. Creative had nothing for him (like with everyone else) and he could have easily been just another name in a line of releases. Then Stephanie heard him freestyling on a plane and thought it could make a great gimmick. So the gimmick that first got Cena over was based on his real life persona, thereby making him self made.

They changed it up later on because they saw it as a novelty gimmick and didn't think it could work as a long term main event character. Point is, CM Punk making smarky comments on TV doesn't mean that he's so much less manufactured than Cena.

 

[Martin Gabriel]

Oh, you're a financial expert? If not, then I think I'll take the ESPN report at face value.

I've been saying for a long time that it's a dumb move to turn Cena heel unless they have someone else that they KNOW (not they think) can put up the same numbers. People seem to not understand how this works. You don't take the top guy out of his role to create a new top guy. You don't stop playing Tom Brady at quarterback so you can build a new quarterback. You wait until Brady can't do it anymore or someone comes along who is better at the job. Right now, Cena is the best at the job he's given, and as long as things remain that way, he's going to continue to be given that job. If CM Punk can become more successful, then more power to him, but that has to happen FIRST. If it doesn't, then why throw $106 million down the drain? Just to please a few smarks on the internet who will almost instantly find something else to bitch about? No. They do enough pandering to the 'net already these days.

There's no way of knowing what would happen if cena turned heel, I'm sure they'd lose some merch and other shit in sales but that's pretty much it, the whole cena good guy shit is boring as hell and any reinventation of him would be a welcome sight. same thing with orton's character, his is getting a little stale (psychotic) and I hope they take the time to reinvent him when he makes a return.

 

[The Champ]

Okay, but the question is, why would WWE do something that they know is going to lose them sales?

Giving the people who hate Cena now what they want won't do anything for them financially. They'll just be flushing millions of dollars down the drain for nothing. If I'm a business trying to make money, why do I something that I know is going to lose me money? What do I gain from that?

Also, people always say, "Oh, they would just lose merch sales." Ignoring Cena's effects on drawing completely. Right now, contrary to popular belief, Cena is a draw for every audience. People either pay to see him win, or pay to see him lose. If you turn him, the kids lose their hero and they don't have anyone to believe in anymore. Adults can find someone new to cheer for rather easily, as long as his name is not Cena. I don't know if that same mindset would apply to kids who believe in Cena and love him more than they hate any one superstar. Some Cena haters hate Cena more than they love any one superstar.

It's also convenient to ignore how good Cena is at doing PR work for the company, how he's the most requested athlete ever for Make a Wish, etc. Those things matter, people. And they're not easily replaceable.

 

[Martin Gabriel]

Because it would be better to actually have their fans like their product (tv) and tune in rather than people change the channel like they've been doing for the main events involving punk.

They're not going to have cena forever so sooner or later they'll have to make someone else the money ticket.

As for the hero comment that's bullshit, I had a bunch of heros growing up and they changed on a monthly basis (police officers, movie stars, musicians ect) so saying it's not easy for someone to get a new hero is just plain bullshit.

 

[Martin Gabriel]

I still stick by my guns in saying that cena needs a new gimmick. kids may love this hero shit but it's pretty much every match every show he's on week in week out. That's why the whole kane thing is entertaining to see, it's him getting the shit kicked out of him even if he gets the upper hand. Hopefully they don't put cena over on kane, I know it'll probably happen if this storyline doesn't end in a heel turn.

 

[Suibon]

Because it would be better to actually have their fans like their product (tv) and tune in rather than people change the channel like they've been doing for the main events involving punk.

The question now turns towards: how many dissatisfied smarks are there compared to the rest of the watching population? I think John Cena's position in the company is indicative of John Cena being too popular to turn heel. If there were more people who hate Cena enough to tune out and turn off their screens and not buy WWE merchandise, it'd be reflected on the storylines and in Cena's staying power itself.​

They're not going to have cena forever so sooner or later they'll have to make someone else the money ticket.

Then do whatever you want to do to him when he's not as over. Why risk uncertainty (maybe it'll work, maybe it won't) and turn Cena heel NOW, when he is the cash cow of the WWE and there is no face who could substitute for him?​

As for the hero comment that's bullshit, I had a bunch of heros growing up and they changed on a monthly basis (police officers, movie stars, musicians ect) so saying it's not easy for someone to get a new hero is just plain bullshit.

It works on you, so no doubt it works with everyone else. Hooray for short-sighted thinking!​

 

[a member of wwe universe]

First of all, Steele said that WWE reported that number, he didn't "come up with it" through expert analysis and number-crunching. The number is more exaggerated than the WrestleMania III number. John Cena has NOT made WWE $106 million dollars.

To them, every single rating point, every single PPV buy, and every single seat at a live event is filled by John Cena.

But the truth is that what sells is the WWE Brand, not John Cena. People couldn't care less about John Cena, not even the little kids. If WWE fired Cena tomorrow and replaced him with some new superhero, the public will accept him with open arms just like they did Hogan and Cena. He is replaceable, he is just in the right spot.

For the record, I like him for the spot. If anyone is going to do it, it should be him. The guy is a really hard worker. Kudos to him, but he isn't untouchable.

Just gonna throw a few things in there. Kinda agree and disagree.
Defintiely the wwe brand will always be the selling point to whatever the wwe do, like attendance for live event, ratings, buyrates, ad revenues etc. Even if cena does leave the wwe today, the machine of the wwe will just keep on going and still draws money. TNA is an emprical evidence to this notion. They got HARDY, angle, sting, hogan, flair etc all these top guys and the company as a whole has not improved at all, at least in terms of ratings and buyrates.

HOWEVER, that doesnt mean wwe can ditch cena whenever they choose. Because i beleive the wwe need cena just as much as cena needs the wwe.
WWE will suffer heavily financially with the loss of cena, no doubt about it. Cena is the centre piece, the source of the revenue that generates money through numerous system.

It has been proven the wwe is capable to create the next star (hogan, hbk, hart, austin, rock ). However, it will take years before theres a guy capable to fill the void of cena as the face of the wwe. Not cm punk, not orton, no one on the active roster.

 

[Lionshare]

Okay, but CM Punk isn't really more of a "self made man" than Cena is. Just because he got to keep his indy gimmick in the big company doesn't make him more "self made."

Cena was never penned to be the top guy. Creative had nothing for him (like with everyone else) and he could have easily been just another name in a line of releases. Then Stephanie heard him freestyling on a plane and thought it could make a great gimmick. So the gimmick that first got Cena over was based on his real life persona, thereby making him self made.

They changed it up later on because they saw it as a novelty gimmick and didn't think it could work as a long term main event character. Point is, CM Punk making smarky comments on TV doesn't mean that he's so much less manufactured than Cena.

But in his interviews Cm Punk has said he has a lot more liberty than other guys to say whatever he wants to say, and not reading form the script maybe just guidelines, obiously within a PG safe margin. He has also said that one of the things the miz admires from him is that he cuts his promos ad-lib.
And thats the biggest reason his promos are more real and closer to what we think is true.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Just gonna throw a few things in there. Kinda agree and disagree.
Defintiely the wwe brand will always be the selling point to whatever the wwe do, like attendance for live event, ratings, buyrates, ad revenues etc. Even if cena does leave the wwe today, the machine of the wwe will just keep on going and still draws money. TNA is an emprical evidence to this notion. They got HARDY, angle, sting, hogan, flair etc all these top guys and the company as a whole has not improved at all, at least in terms of ratings and buyrates.

HOWEVER, that doesnt mean wwe can ditch cena whenever they choose. Because i beleive the wwe need cena just as much as cena needs the wwe.
WWE will suffer heavily financially with the loss of cena, no doubt about it. Cena is the centre piece, the source of the revenue that generates money through numerous system.

It has been proven the wwe is capable to create the next star (hogan, hbk, hart, austin, rock ). However, it will take years before theres a guy capable to fill the void of cena as the face of the wwe. Not cm punk, not orton, no one on the active roster.

I cannot disagree more. Hulk Hogan was created almost literally overnight. Same goes for The Next Big Thing, Brock Lesnar.

Guys like John Cena, The Rock and Steve Austin all went through mid-card runs and gimmick changes before getting to the top, but I assure you, if WWE would have had the confidence and creativity to push them from the start with the main event characters, they would have been accepted by the public as their new superhero just as well as they did after they "paid their dues".

What all these four guys (5 if you count Lesnar's really short run at the top) had in common was the look. They were huge guys with big muscles who literally could be superheroes ripped out from a comic book. They were also good on the microphone. Guys like Undertaker, Triple H and Batista have also had runs at the top for the same reasons. And I'm sure if Bobby Lashley learned to use that microphone better, he would have been added to this number.

Anyone can be the TOP guy. In my opinion (and it might be an unpopular one), this might be the easiest role to play. The Superman gimmick doesn't have to get over on his performance. This guy will win every single feud and almost every single match. He's freaking unstoppable. The masses will be drawn to him immediately as they would if Superman was in the ring himself.

Anyway, my point is that WWE can create another Superman whenever they want and it would take minimal effort to get the crowd behind him. It's not like Zack Ryder who had to get over ON HIS OWN. I might not be his biggest fan, but he busted his ass, created a fun gimmick, went on the Internet and gave the masses an entertaining show and that's why he's over, not because he wins every match. On the contrary, he was a massive loser during all this time. And yet, he's really over with the crowd. Not because WWE DESIGNED him to be over, but because he actually got there on his own.

Can we say the same for Hogan? For Cena? They were designed to be over with the crowd, so the truth is we'll never know how much they contributed themselves.

 

[Suibon]

I cannot disagree more. Hulk Hogan was created almost literally overnight. Same goes for The Next Big Thing, Brock Lesnar.

Guys like John Cena, The Rock and Steve Austin all went through mid-card runs and gimmick changes before getting to the top, but I assure you, if WWE would have had the confidence and creativity to push them from the start with the main event characters, they would have been accepted by the public as their new superhero just as well as they did after they "paid their dues".

What all these four guys (5 if you count Lesnar's really short run at the top) had in common was the look. They were huge guys with big muscles who literally could be superheroes ripped out from a comic book. They were also good on the microphone. Guys like Undertaker, Triple H and Batista have also had runs at the top for the same reasons. And I'm sure if Bobby Lashley learned to use that microphone better, he would have been added to this number.

Anyone can be the TOP guy. In my opinion (and it might be an unpopular one), this might be the easiest role to play. The Superman gimmick doesn't have to get over on his performance. This guy will win every single feud and almost every single match. He's freaking unstoppable. The masses will be drawn to him immediately as they would if Superman was in the ring himself.

Anyway, my point is that WWE can create another Superman whenever they want and it would take minimal effort to get the crowd behind him. It's not like Zack Ryder who had to get over ON HIS OWN. I might not be his biggest fan, but he busted his ass, created a fun gimmick, went on the Internet and gave the masses an entertaining show and that's why he's over, not because he wins every match. On the contrary, he was a massive loser during all this time. And yet, he's really over with the crowd. Not because WWE DESIGNED him to be over, but because he actually got there on his own.

Can we say the same for Hogan? For Cena? They were designed to be over with the crowd, so the truth is we'll never know how much they contributed themselves.

If the WWE could design main-eventers that easily, we would've a lot more main-eventers in both Smackdown and Raw, The Hidden One would've been a main-eventer by now instead of festering in mid-card near-obscurity (and with a good gimmick and an IC title run to boot), etc. etc.

In other words, nonsense. The WWE plays their part, giving select wrestlers gimmicks at the start of their careers (mostly horrid or plainly unbelievable ones), but the wrestler must play his part too: getting over with whatever you're doing, blah blah blah.
​

 

[StevieJ]

I can sum up my input with this question: After Hogan went heel and joined NWO, how many other kids or adults did you see wearing NWO shirts?

If I were WWE I would too be hesitant about turning Cena because of the assumed cash loss. Nobody really knows what will happen. It could turn out profitable in the end. Here's a beliveable situation where it would work: Cena gets horribly injured, comes back in a year (in which time WWE will have developed their babyfaces more) and embraces the hate because he gave his all to the fans and ended up having horrible injuries because of it.

The Superman argument: True. Anyone can be a Superman. Remember Umaga's winning streak? Goldberg was only in WCW for a short time and wrestled almost entirely jobbers until he won the championship. You can do it with anybody, because Goldberg kind of sucked on the mic. Shelton Benjamin came to RAW and got over because he beat HHH 3 weeks in a row. Mark Henry, in all his time in WWE besides the last year has always been considered second rate, then all of a sudden he is beating Big Show and Randy Orton. They can turn Cena and still turn a profit, they are just being lazy about it.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Whether the haters are smart enough to realize it or not, they WANT to see Cena. thus, they're every bit as much a driving force behind his PPV value as the people buying his shirts. I completely believe everything in the article, Cena is huge. Kinda makes whatever salary he's getting seem small. I know if I generated 10-20 times more than what I was being paid, I'd want more.

 

[rge2010]

Cenas character is stale yet all the people who bitch about it on here still watch WWE programming. They dont like 'SuperCena' but they still buy PPV's and watch the programme. Cena gets booed, but so does half the roster - we cheer and boo who we want!

Why turn Cena heel when he sells shit loads of merchandise to the little jimmys?!

 

[KnowMyRole-ShutYourMouth]

Cenas character is stale yet all the people who bitch about it on here still watch WWE programming. They dont like 'SuperCena' but they still buy PPV's and watch the programme. Cena gets booed, but so does half the roster - we cheer and boo who we want!

Why turn Cena heel when he sells shit loads of merchandise to the little jimmys?!

Because you are trying to GROW the business. Not sit back and accept what Cena gets you. The WWE has rode this horse into the ground over the last 7 years.

People who defend Cena remaining face always say "whether you like him or hate him, you WATCH." No shit. The die hards aren't going anywhere. But there is a downward trend in the business and just like the star quarterback or head coach, the blame falls on Vince McMahon & John Cena.

If the WWE wants to bring in MORE people, they need to change things. They are winding up their 1 year Rock project and honestly business seems to have gone backwards. That's not entirely a bad thing. Usually things get worse before they get better. These next 3-4 months are absolutely crucial. The Rock will be wrestling. Jericho is back. The WWE needs to create new stars and freshen up the product. John Cena doing his same tired act isn't the answer.

Face it: John Cena is not only turning heel, but him turning heel is the absolute BEST move for business. His tired character is worth $106 million. Just imagine if he freshened his act up and sparked renewed interest? Business would only go up.

 

[Slyfox696]

Because you are trying to GROW the business. Not sit back and accept what Cena gets you. The WWE has rode this horse into the ground over the last 7 years.

If by "rode this horse into the ground", you REALLY mean made piles and piles of money during worldwide economic crises, then you would be correct.

People who defend Cena remaining face always say "whether you like him or hate him, you WATCH." No shit. The die hards aren't going anywhere. But there is a downward trend in the business and just like the star quarterback or head coach, the blame falls on Vince McMahon & John Cena.

What downward trend? Ratings are following the same trends they normally follow. PPV revenue has stayed pretty consistent since 2003. Merchandise sales have gone through the roof since Cena became a star. The WWE, in 2010, made the greatest profit they've made since the Attitude Era. And all of this is being done during complete financial instability and economic downturns.

What downward trend in the WWE are you talking about? It simply doesn't exist.

John Cena doing his same tired act isn't the answer.

And yet, Cena doing his "same tired act" seem to be one of the only things which is working.

Face it: John Cena is not only turning heel, but him turning heel is the absolute BEST move for business. His tired character is worth $106 million. Just imagine if he freshened his act up and sparked renewed interest? Business would only go up.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Why would arbitrarily turning him heel make business go up? If you turn Cena heel, then you'll lose one of the prime reasons his character is so interesting and does make so much money. The battle between the "Let's go Cena" and "Cena sucks" crowd is something which you cannot create. This battle has led to many lucrative PPV matches.

Turning Cena heel will not make you more money, it can only make you less.

 

[The Champ]

WWE letting Punk say whatever he wants doesn't make him self made. WWE gives him that freedom, and therefore they're just as much a part of making him who he is. They could have easily told him to walk when his contract was up. They didn't. And somehow I doubt that these shoots would mean anything if he was cutting them in a high school gym somewhere.

You're all buying into this stuff that Punk is so different from the WWE machine and all that. When in actuality, he's said from the beginning that he wants to be part of the machine (i.e. be featured on posters and magazine covers), and that WWE never gave him those opportunities. Now, they have. Punk didn't actually do it himself.

Also, Wade Barrett stated in an interview (and I think Randy Orton has said this too although I'm not sure) that John Cena ad libs his promos as well. So that's not a point for Punk over Cena.