Making a murderer

[nightmare]

Exactly. Too many variables and what if's that poke holes in the prosecutions case. Poke holes like the clearly open and used package with the blood vial. That whole thing was a trip.

All in all, not enough solid evidence against for a conviction. The defense did a bang up job & I am not a detective or trained in forensics, but if I was on the jury there wasnt enough that could get me to say Avery was guilty. Could he be? Yeah, but there are other scenarios that could have played out just as likely. Interesting case for sure & a damn shame the prosecutor/cops pushed so hard to the public he was completely guilty before the defense could show reasons why he may not be. That town seemed to go from one side to the other fairly quick and decisively before hearing the whole story.

 

[A11oftheLights]

I dont think its helped by the fact that he doesnt sound smart and was dating or engaged to someone who was in prison for DUI. All that shit is gonna lead to people judging you and wave away the framed cries like your an idiot. But the whole family isnt smart, how many times did his sister jump from 'fuck steven' to 'steven's innocent', she didnt even know what inconsistent meant for christ sake.

I think the brother of Teresa Halbach needs to be looked at. He repeatedly threw Steven under the bus, made comments about steven's character that were complete bullshit and had access to the voicemail (though he wasnt the only one)

 

[A11oftheLights]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/m...-more-gruesome-than-filmmakers-made-it-seem-1

this is hilarious. While i knew they left out some of the evidence, only two of these actually make me more inclined to say guilty and the final point makes think yeah maybe. The other incidents aren't really evidence of anything. Particularly the tortue chamber, yeah it sounds horrible but if everything I ever said could be used against me than I'd be fucked

 

[nightmare]

The burned personal items are important & should have been shown during the show. The others seem meh at best. Especially the cat thing and heresay from convicts about the chamber. Dumb country folks kill random animals & jailhouse chatter turns into a story that gives the prisoners something to talk about or get a bit of time in the limelight away from their cells. Cant take much of that as truth if any at all.

The one thing I cant get past is where all the damn blood went? If she was killed in any way close to the manner described, his dumbass would not have been able to wipe all traces of her blood out of his trailer/room. Even traces of cleaned blood would still have shown up & this guy is no trained forensics tech to be able to hide that shit.

Guilty or not, he isnt getting out. Unless someone confesses or new evidence comes out, the guy is fucked.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Guilty or not, he isnt getting out. Unless someone confesses or new evidence comes out, the guy is fucked.

The only other way is if public pressure somehow forces a pardon isnt it? Cant see that happening at all.

How does the appeals process work over there?

 

[SSJPhenom]

Damn this thread for making me stay up all night to watch every episode of this. It was well worth it though and it speaks volumes about our legal system.

Volumes about how fucked our legal system can be. How that judge didn't find Brenden's confession inadmissible is one of the fucking wonders of this world. He was spoon fed everything to fucking say bit by bit. Jesus Christ those phone calls he had with his mother were heart breaking. Fuck this was a good series.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Avery had to give up a $36 million law suit which he would've won to settle for a few hundred thousand just to hire decent lawyers. Damn it man I feel sorry for that family.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Avery had to give up a $36 million law suit which he would've won to settle for a few hundred thousand just to hire decent lawyers. Damn it man I feel sorry for that family.

It brings up the relevant question

Would you do 20 years for $20 mil?

 

[SSJPhenom]

It brings up the relevant question

Would you do 20 years for $20 mil?

No, I thought it brought up an even more relevant question of what will the Justice system do to keep officials from looking guilty of misconduct. Not just in this case but in several cases of police shootings, police brutality, and things of that nature.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Well i sure as hell, avery was going to get more than that rate anyway and that was way back in 2005. These days you'd be looking at 50 million for 20 years. Think about it, you get fed and housed for 20 years. Stress free life and when its all said and done your name is cleared

 

[nightmare]

The pardon thing I believe is out. Pretty sure I read the White House said it is a state level situation and concerns should be directed to those authorities. Which basically says Obama is not touching it. Honestly why would he? Even if it wasnt the end of the run for him, why overturn a ruling based on outcries from a Netfix doc? If it was more clear of Avery's innocence then maybe, but with what is known, Obama would face more criticism than necessary for getting in the middle of this.

 

[A11oftheLights]

The pardon thing I believe is out. Pretty sure I read the White House said it is a state level situation and concerns should be directed to those authorities. Which basically says Obama is not touching it. Honestly why would he? Even if it wasnt the end of the run for him, why overturn a ruling based on outcries from a Netfix doc? If it was more clear of Avery's innocence then maybe, but with what is known, Obama would face more criticism than necessary for getting in the middle of this.

Cant a state governer grant a pardon? You see I dont know your law system

 

[SSJPhenom]

Well i sure as hell, avery was going to get more than that rate anyway and that was way back in 2005. These days you'd be looking at 50 million for 20 years. Think about it, you get fed and housed for 20 years. Stress free life and when its all said and done your name is cleared

Have you ever been to jail? It sucks ass. Yes you're essentially getting free food, a bed, Heat in the winter, and air in the summer; but you have no freedom. You have to piss, shit, and masterbate (like one of bunk mates did) in front of everyone. You have to shower with everyone and while rapings or fights really don't happen as much as the media suggests (at least in county jail, idk about prison) they do happen. Couples get together in the shower sometimes, ask a friend to keep guard and um, fuck. They don't care who's in the shower either. Whether it's empty or full. They ones that have been there the longest decide what is going to be watched on TV during free time and its hard to sleep. Plus the food is God awful. Pigs on a farm eat better than inmates do. I was in for 90 days and lost 37 pounds because I literally had to force myself to eat (it didn't help that I was coming off pain pills at the time). I for one will never go back. That's why I've changed my life around. Plus having people who can't look after themselves depend on you makes things in life a little more clear.

I barley lasted 90 days, I don't think I could last 20 years.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Have you ever been to jail? It sucks ass. Yes you're essentially getting free food, a bed, Heat in the winter, and air in the summer; but you have no freedom. You have to piss, shit, and masterbate (like one of bunk mates did) in front of everyone. You have to shower with everyone and while rapings or fights really don't happen as much as the media suggests (at least in county jail, idk about prison) they do happen. Couples get together in the shower sometimes, ask a friend to keep guard and um, fuck. They don't care who's in the shower either. Whether it's empty or full. They ones that have been there the longest decide what is going to be watched on TV during free time and its hard to sleep. Plus the food is God awful. Pigs on a farm eat better than inmates do. I was in for 90 days and lost 37 pounds because I literally had to force myself to eat (it didn't help that I was coming off pain pills at the time). I for one will never go back. That's why I've changed my life around. Plus having people who can't look after themselves depend on you makes things in life a little more clear.

I barley lasted 90 days, I don't think I could last 20 years.

yeah but you didnt know you had $50,000,000 coming your way

 

[Bagpipes]

My wife is a special education teacher, she works with kids mostly in the early to mid-teenage group on a daily basis. She has students with varying degrees of autism, ADD, ADHD and other mental and physical disabilities. She was especially appalled at the footage of the questioning of Brendan by the two investigators.

Without really knowing much about Brendan's history or any diagnoses of mental disability, she picked up on several tells in his body language and demeanor that she has experienced with several of her own students. She suggested that two students she teaches this year could be taken into a room for questioning and be led to confess to just about anything imaginable with the right amount of persuasion and persistence, as was exhibited by the investigators questioning Brendan.

It was certainly hard to watch, even for someone like myself who knows very little about special needs individuals or psychology. Just figured I'd share that insight from someone who deals with it on a daily basis.

 

[SSJPhenom]

^Exactly!!!!

The boy was literally guessing at every question until he got it right. I still can't believe that the judge didn't dismiss his confession from evidence. Especially since his attorney or mother wasn't present. I just can't grasp this case at all. There is so much wrong with it....

 

[Khalifa]

I saw Jerome Buting and Ken Kratz on Dr.Phil the other day and literally the first point Kratz brought up he was wrong about it just flat out lied. Was so funny.

More to the point though. Kathleen Zellner (The lawyer who is now representing Avery) has publically accused Halbachs Ex Ryan Hillegas and are asking for a new trial.

While Hillegas has as many unanswered questions as anybody in this case, her theory is a bit hard to follow. Though I will say I can see about 90% of what she said in potentially a same/same but different situation being correct. I still can't see any evidence that supports Avery did this, at least in the way that he was convicted of. It makes no sense. A few things don't add up like the calls and the DNA on the hood (Dassey said Steven went to the hood, but I haven't actually seen if the police basically told dassey to car was moved or something or he just came up with that himself) but that doesn't tell me a murder happened. Dassey and Steven were convicted on different stories as well, wtf...

Anyways I was just on reddit for MaM, and I just found out I hate reddit even more. Some dude like 40 quoted Zellners theory trying to debunk it and while he did make some decent points, he just just being a dick for most of it. Just trying to shit on bits of the theory that actually made sense like Hillegas yelling out in surprise about seeing Halbachs car and personal items in the car saying why would he do that. Well wouldn't you do a bit of acting as well mate??

Reddit just reminds me of Crocker and that's all that needs to be said.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Watch The Jinx and The Staircase. Way better and the information isn't 90% bullshit.

 

[Khalifa]

Watch The Jinx and The Staircase. Way better and the information isn't 90% bullshit.

Will absolutely jump on.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Watch The Jinx and The Staircase. Way better and the information isn't 90% bullshit.

I read on the internet that the information was bullshit on that one too, so it must be bullshit.