Loser's Bracket Debate #9: Aweome_Miz -vs- Mr. Steve

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2012' started by D-Man, Apr 5, 2012.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Can Kofi Kingston benefit from turning heel?


    This is a first round, Loser's Bracket debate in the 2012 Wrestlezone Debater's League Tournament.

    Aweome_Miz won the coin toss and will be the home debater. He's earned the right to choose EITHER which side of the debate he wants to argue OR who provides the opening statement. He can also defer this choice to his opponent. (The home debater has 24 hours to make this decision otherwise it is automatically deferred to his opponent.)

    After these choices are made, the first post of the debate must be posted within the first 24 hours otherwise it will affect the starter's Punctuality portion of the judging. Debaters have 24 hours to respond to their opponent's post and the faster the response, the better chance you have to score higher point totals.

    The maximum amount of posts for each debater in this round is three. Once this criteria is met, (or the allotted time of the debate runs out,) the debate will end and judging will commence.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Wednesday at 2pm EST where judging will immediately begin. Judging must be finished no later than Saturday at 2pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck to the participants.
     
    #1
  2. Awesome_Miz

    Awesome_Miz Proud LSN mentee

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    I choose for Mr. Steve to go first.
     
    #2
  3. Mr. Steve

    Mr. Steve Everybody calls me Ruxin, Rupert.

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    Cheers.

    How Kofi doesn't benefit from turning heel

    You want to know how Kofi doesn't benefit from turning heel? Cool.

    He'll lost his heat

    He's over, man! Dude's got face heat and he's very handy when it comes to matches in the midcard. If he turns heel, he has to start from scratch. Mainly, because:

    What kind of heel is he?

    Quick, what's Kofi's gimmick right now? Keep in mind, he used to be a happy-go-lucky guy from Jamaica (Jamaica me crazy, remember?)

    That all went away when....



    Now you tell me, does that current gimmick or the one he had work with Kofi as a heel?

    Don't worry, I'll wait.

    The point is, Kofi doesn't have anything that can be molded into heelish tactics. There was that aggresive side he showed during his feud with Orton but that WORKED for him. It quite literally put him over because of the Boom Drop in MSG.



    Again, he's over with the crowd, he can work wonders as a face with a heel as his opponent and I'm hoping his improvement with on-camera presence is happening (as with Ziggler) why place a proverbial brick wall by turning him heel?
     
    #3
  4. Awesome_Miz

    Awesome_Miz Proud LSN mentee

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    Here's to a good debate and me not bailing out again.​

    How Kofi does benefit from turning heel

    Now lets get this started off with a video.​

    [youtube]pNBfqDCBm_4[/youtube]​

    Now, what is the meaning of this video you might ask yourself? Well, if you see the video then you can see Kofi does have an aggresive side to himself. Having that kind of mood can help him be a heel.​

    If, WWE creative (or Vince :rolleyes:) can let him be a heel than he might actually benefit from it. Yeah, he might start off fresh but that's good. Having him turn over a new leaf will get him to reinvent his character. Meaning, viewers will be able to see a new Kofi and actually be interested in him.​

    He might be able to do all these types of flashy moves but his mic skills suck. Being a heel will mean he can work on some better material.

    Also, when was the last time Kingston did something were he made you say Damn! Maybe 09 or 08.

    In conclusion, Kofi needs to turn heel before he becomes like Rey (Stale). Having this heel turn might not only help Kof but as well the WWE.

    I await your reply Mr. Steve.​
     
    #4
  5. Mr. Steve

    Mr. Steve Everybody calls me Ruxin, Rupert.

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    #5
  6. Awesome_Miz

    Awesome_Miz Proud LSN mentee

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    Yes I want to know.
    I wonder who that reminds me of?:rolleyes:
    [​IMG]
    Yeah I remembered that gimmick and how WWE dropped the ball with it.
    No it won't work cause he will probably get repackaged. That way he can start off fresh and better.
    Yeah but he does have an aggresive side meaning he can use that like ala R-Truth and his crazyness.
    See that's the key word. He ain't. The only thing I see him to is now without Evan Bourne and that's job to ME guys.



    See you are proving my point. He really can't get anything going good by being a face. If he went to a heel then it's something good for Kofi's career and the fans. Since, we have never seen what a heel Kofi can do. There endless possibilties with the heel turn.


    Oh yeah what about Orton? He might have been a coward type but actually did something HUGE. So, Kofi can do something like that (see video again)​

    So, he pretty much needs someone to help him when being a face. Also, Vince always loves to experiment so what's stopping him from doing that with Kofi.





    Well, have you seen his face promos. So, turning heel can help us see what else he might do. (See Cena, Orton, or HBK Heel's promos)



    I got a better a idea. How about you give me a bullet proof idea were Kofi can become a top face ME guy.
     
    #6
  7. Mr. Steve

    Mr. Steve Everybody calls me Ruxin, Rupert.

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    Apples to Oranges. Morrison touched ME while Kofi has yet to do it. You have not proved your point.

    WWE doesn't drop anything. The blow-off match ended on a RAW. That feud was for Kofi to show his aggresive side. There just wasn't a follow through on both his end as well as a lack of being put over in a decisive manner pertaining to the match layout (believe me, that has to be taken into consideration)

    Fresh doesn't necessarily mean better. Like for example, Kofi being more aggresive in his feud with Orton. The problem being: the aggresiveness fizzled.

    Yes and where's Truth now? Working as a face on Superstars. Again, doing a turn doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be something for the

    What the hell are you babbling about, he's been tag teaming with Truth (that guy who didn't really work as a heel because of a halted push as that and a swerve) and he works the Tag Division.


    Yet, you haven't given me one that seems bulletproof

    No, Orton wasn't the cowardly heel at the time/ He was the cowardly heel with IDD during HHH/Orton. At the time, he was accompanying Legacy, which was also being put over. Again, Kofi has a purpose as being a face. If he's a heel, he'll be another guy in the shuffle since he won't have that good a face to play off of.

    He's pretty much an antithesis to Ziggler, Swagger, Epico and Primo. He has a purpose in the pecking order in the alignment he's at. CHanging him, especially in these dates, wouldn't help. If anything, now's the time to capitalize on his face-ness and boost him up during the Johnny ace era.


    Vince experiments in the winter. It's been two weeks after Wrestlemania. If anything, Kofi's focus has to capitalize on the viewership NOW as opposed to wintertime. Doing a heel turn there will most likely add him to the lower card matches in Wrestlemania, like Ziggler and Swagger.

    It will not be that much different. If you need work as a face when it comes to the microphone, you need work as a heel. Being a wrestler means you have to work BOTH equally as good, not just one and slight the other.


    Yeah, you're hso wrong on that one. Kofi isn't someone that's meant to break the glass ceiling. He's the reliable hand that helps out his peers and can be asked to put on good spots on a big pay-per-view. For that, he needs to stay a babyface. Being a babyface implies there's a reason that he's doing those spots because he puts caution to the wind.

    That's being a babyface. But, if they want to test their waters and put him a bit higher in the pecking order, then let him work with Johnny on Smackdown. He could be the guy that stands up against Johnny Ace and his run as General Manager. Being on Smackdown implies more ringtime as opposed to RAW which is more focused on promos/recaps. Smackdown's a great place for Kofi, even more so if he works tag matches with someone else and has matches for the titles.

    Stephanie McMahon once stated (paraphrased since the pdf was taken out) on her testimonial regarding Chris benoit that: "Ideally, you want everyone in the main event. That's where you need to have everyone so the show really stands out. But not everyone can be in the Main Event, which is why there's the mid card and the lower cards."

    Kofi will not be a true, bona fine Main Event guy. But he'll be a damn fine Mid Card guy that can have a match in the Main Event or two. As a face, he's a perfect foil to most of the heels in the pecking order. Want proof: Look at the movesets.

    You have not given me a solid idea about Kofi being a heel that will not consist of:

    A manager that takes the heat for him and doesn't funnel it (Vicke and Johnny Ace all carry the heat for Ziggler, Swagger, Otunga, etc.), a gimmick that's believeable and slow cooked, as opposed to being swervealicious and finally, a a heel gimmick that has a perfect foil in someone that can be solid and is available to work (not Punk since he's tied up with Jericho, not Cena since he's tied up with Lesnar, not Rock since he's tied up with his stuff outside the 'E, not Seamus since he's tied up wit hADR, not Brodus and Santino since they're working with Swagger and Ziggler)

    Wait...are those the top faces? WELL, WELL, WELL looks like someone needs to be a face in the 'E. Guess Kofi doesn't need the heel turn after all.

    You've yet to give me a solid idea, a solid feud and a solid blow-off match. Way to go :rolleyes:
     
    #7
  8. Dagger Dias

    Dagger Dias Natural 20
    Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Time has run out for Aweome_Miz to post his conclusion. I'll start the judging for this round:


    Clarity: Aweome_Miz. He had more organization in his posts. The typo in Mr Steve’s quotes hurt him here. We all make typos, but things like that make the post look sloppy.

    Punctuality: Mr Steve. He finished his half of the debate.

    Informative: Mr Steve. He did his research and it shows.

    Persuasion: Mr Steve. His arguments were more convincing, and I found his concluding post to be especially strong.

    I score it as: Mr Steve 4, Aweome_Miz 1.
     
    #8
  9. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity - I loved Steven's opening. Shame his first response had the miscue on the quoting.

    Point - Aweome_Miz

    Punctuality - A_M didn't finish it up.

    Point - Mr. Steve

    Informative - A_M did have a video, and a picture of JoMo. But, I highly enjoyed Steven's videos, and he used them nicely.

    Point - Mr. Steve

    Persuasion - It's hard to convince someone when you don't finish up your debate. Steven did a nice job backing his points throughout.

    Points - Mr. Steve

    CH David scores this Mr. Steve 4, Aweome_Miz 1.
     
    #9
  10. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Clarity: Steve messed up big time on the quoting thing. Aweome_Miz has the point.

    Punctuality: Yeah, the lack of a conclusion serves only to hand Steve this one on a platter.

    Informative: Steve had more and better examples for my money. His point.

    Persuasion: Steve dominated and earned himself the points and the win. He didn't no-show the conclusion and he had solid theory throughout.

    FunKay Scores It: Steve 4, Aweome_Miz: 1
     
    #10
  11. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Even if Aweome_Miz gets a perfect score from SavageTaker, he cannot win this bracket. Therefore, Mr. Steve has clinched his defeat over Aweome_Miz by a score of 12-3. He will move onto Loser's bracket #20 to face The Rattlesnake.

    Aweome_Miz, you have been eliminated from this year's tournament. Thank you for wasting all of our fucking time. :disappointed:
     
    #11
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