Loser's Bracket Debate #11: Milenko -vs- CP Munk

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2012' started by D-Man, Apr 5, 2012.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Can the Miz benefit from turning babyface?


    This is a first round, Loser's Bracket debate in the 2012 Wrestlezone Debater's League Tournament.

    CP Munk won the coin toss and will be the home debater. He's earned the right to choose EITHER which side of the debate he wants to argue OR who provides the opening statement. He can also defer this choice to his opponent. (The home debater has 24 hours to make this decision otherwise it is automatically deferred to his opponent.)

    After these choices are made, the first post of the debate must be posted within the first 24 hours otherwise it will affect the starter's Punctuality portion of the judging. Debaters have 24 hours to respond to their opponent's post and the faster the response, the better chance you have to score higher point totals.

    The maximum amount of posts for each debater in this round is three. Once this criteria is met, (or the allotted time of the debate runs out,) the debate will end and judging will commence.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Wednesday at 2pm EST where judging will immediately begin. Judging must be finished no later than Saturday at 2pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck to the participants.
     
    #1
  2. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    Upon waking up I discover this. Awesome.

    I'm going to pick the side of the argument I will debate & I will say that the Miz would benefit from turning Babyface.
     
    #2
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  3. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    I choose that CP Munk will go first
     
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  4. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    The Miz.

    A great heel character? Of course. He had one of the most memorable recent WWE Championship reigns under that persona. But like a loaf of bread, everything grows stale in the end and recently, that's been happening to The Miz.

    Nowhere To Go?

    After "retiring" John Morrison and injuring R-Truth, we've seen Miz do nothing. All he was doing was complaining. Over & over again he was doing nothing, so why not give good old Mike Mizanin something a bit different? I don't mean another title reign, or a shift over to Smackdown. Why not an alignment change? Turn the man best known for being a cocky heel, into a face that could be loved by all the fans sitting around the ring! You may think it strange, but why the hell not? Since 2006, Miz has been the villain we all hate. Why can't he become someone we all love? A man who we cheer for when he wins a match, or when he gains a Championship?

    Why The Hell Would You?

    I think the question here is, why the hell wouldn't you? Just think about it for a few seconds. A man like John Cena, we all complain about, saying he "needs" to turn heel, yet I find no problem with him being a face. However, when I see The Miz as someone who as times has recently passed, has gotten less interesting, with me leading to believe that he really needs a change. A change in persona that is. How do we go about it, that's the difficult bit. Maybe he starts to gradually, through emotions or someone brings a beatdown to Mike, leading to us all feeling sorry for him. He could go from being the "Awesome" one, then just to being "Miz". With the Mic skills that he has, his turn could be super convincing and you cannot deny it. Trying to argue Miz's microphone skills would be be as foolish as arguing over Kelly Kelly's fake tits. Then, we could even have a catchphrase (YES ANOTHER ONE). We already have;

    "I'm The Miz.....and I'm AWWEEESOME!". We all know that one, but how about this?

    (Insert unimportant Heel Wrestler here): Miz, you know that I'm gonna beat you down at (Insert PPV here) and retain my title.

    Miz: Really?... Really?

    Yes, Miz uses it already every so often, but he could turn it into such a catchphrase that he holds his microphone out and everyone shouts out at him. That be great to see, yes?

    Anyways, we all know that Miz would be great as a face, just like he is as a heel. If you can work the crowd, no matter what you should get by. I think that this would get The Miz loads of people on his back pretty quickly and I think that it'd also put him back into the title running when the WWE/WHC Belt is held by a heel champ. Miz has a lot of potential as he is now, but it could be boosted should he turn face.

    That's what we need to see.
     
    #4
  5. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    Miz need to stay heel at least for the foreseeable future if not his entire career and here are a few reasons why.


    He just won at WrestleMania (as a heel) and in doing so made it so one of the most hated men in WWE ran both RAW and Smackdown.
    If he were to turn face now not only would it make no sense what so ever the fans wouldn't except it after what he did. Not only that he seems to be getting back in the Main Event Scene and would do much better as a heel then a face.

    He's better as a heel then he ever would be as a face.
    He's been a heel his entire career and he's good at it. He can get heel heat like no one's business when he has a mind to. He has more to work off of in terms of promo materiel especially now after WreslteMania. Then there's the fact people love to hate him. They love to boo, jeer and annoy him while he's talking. Miz is a center point of RAW (as a heel) and will be getting more air time in the coming weeks

    He's getting watchable again
    I'll admit I was getting bored with Miz always losing and just started to not care about him one way or the other. After watching WreslteMania and the next night on RAW it seems that a new life was breathed into Miz. I care about him again, I hate him as a character and want to see him finally get his ass kicked. He's no longer boring as sin and that's a very good thing.

    Miz as a face?
    I just don't see it. I know this is wrestling and anything can happen but that doesn't mean it should. Miz exudes a natural cocky heelish charisma that just wouldn't work for a face. I'm talking about before he was in the WWE. I remember watching Real World/Road Rules Challenge when I was younger and seeing him and thinking My god this guy is a total douchebag, I hope someone beats the shit out of him.
     
    #5
  6. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    Really?

    He just won at WrestleMania (as a heel) and in doing so made it so one of the most hated men in WWE ran both RAW and Smackdown.

    In all honesty, that match served two purposes. 1) Make Johnny GM & 2) Turn Eve fully heel. The only reason they let Miz get the win is because it gave him something of note to put in his diary.

    Why would it make no sense? He's not forever going to be known as "The guy who pinned Zack Ryder". Is he? I think not. He's just going to be known as The Miz. He might be coming back into the Main Event (ever so gradually), but why can't he be a face? He could be a thousand times better than he is heel & I for one think he would be.

    Again, really?

    Once more, I read this & just have to say. "How the fuck do you know it?" How do you know that he has more to work off? He could come back as a face where all the heels wanna take anger out on Miz for some reason or another, that'd give him LOADS to work with. Also, do the people "love" to boo him? Or at they now at the stage where they feel like it's all they can do? I don't even "boo" him anymore, I just watch. He's getting stale, getting bland & he really does need a change in personality.

    Is watchable a word?
    At least you agree with me in one way. But no, new life was not "breathed into" Miz. Not much anyways. He may have picked up a win, but facing Zack Ryder in a 3-minute match on the next episode of Raw? Meh. He's not boring as sin, but he's not that interesting either. In all honesty, if Teddy Long's team won at Wrestlemania, the only way I saw it happening was if Miz turned face & at one point... I called it to happen. It didn't, but could you imagine how much of a hero he would've been? He didn't seem like he would've been on Team Johnny going into WM & I was a bit disappointed when he did. He could've gotten an awesome (pun intended) reacton from the crowd, but.. I don't know, it just didn't work.

    Yes, that's what I'm getting at.


    Funny y'know because I went on Twitter & just saw this. No word of a lie;

    @OfficialSuzana - My thoughts on the Miz?....He no longer makes me angry. What is the world coming to?

    I think that there shows you that maybe... Miz is getting boring. Yes, I said it. Boring. Maybe they just like him as a heel, but there's an element in there when you can find him interesting anymore because HE ISN'T! I rarely agree with all these "So/so needs to become face/heel" arguments 'cos they're usually bullshit. But this one, it couldn't be more true. I think that Miz needs to have a hit of "realisation" and then all of a sudden, do something which causes him to turn face because not only is it going to send the crowd crazy, it's going to get everyone on his side and right now, that's the biggest benefit. Miz turning face is going to make him popular.

    That's what we need.
     
    #6
  7. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    ok you seem to have missed my point here. Because of that no one would except him as a heel. Not only that he finally got people to start caring about him as a heel again. Why on god's green earth would anyone want to flush all that down the toilet by turning him face?
    I'm pretty sure He'll be known as the guy who got the pin that allowed one of the most hated men to run both RAW and Smackdown. And while he could come into the Main Event as a face it wouldn't work not only for the reasons I posted but for another one. CM Punk is a face. What better way for Johnny Ace to reward the man that made it all possible than to give him a WWE title match against the biggest thorn in his side, which could possibly turn into a feud between 2 of today's best talkers?


     
    #7
  8. Johnny Scumm

    Johnny Scumm InZayn In The Membrane

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    Have they got people caring about him as a heel? He won a guy ONE match. In possibly the second least interesting match at Wrestlemania (Yes, Sheamus/Bryan was interesting-ish). I don't think that's he's really done much to make him interesting. Since then, as I've already stated, he beat Zack Ryder in a 3 minute match, putting him nowehere. Main event? Not at all. Just another guy on the map. Turning him face might actually give him something to do, don'tcha think?

    I highly doubt it. If he did, he'd be coming out at Johnny Ace's side every week instead of David friggin' Otunga. To be honest, that's an awful idea as well. When Chris Jericho is in the picture right now and possibly will be in the picture for the next TWO PPVs, bringing up Miz winning that match maybe two months down the line... no-one's gonna care! The WWE Draft's coming up soon, I still think we're seeing The Miz disappear to Smackdown. Give him that face turn and BAM! Alberto Del Rio, maybe Kane... or even Daniel Bryan again. One of these heels can hold the title and then Miz is up against someone he wouldn't usually face!


    I assume when you say MnM you mean Miz & Morrison? Not Mercury, Nitro, Melina? Because you've otherwise made a big mistake. And you say it would take him time to build up? HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?! If it works, he'll have built himself up automatically.

    Well fuck my ass and call me a bitch.

    HE WONT GET JOHNNY ACE IN HIS CORNER. Johnny's the GM & only seems to care about making matches and running the show now he has the power. Stop thinking that he'll be involved with The Miz because he WILL. NOT.

    They*

    To be honest, they could be saving it for another time & I still think they are. Name one other person who could've done better off with winning for Team Johnny? No-one really. Maybe Drew McIntyre, but he got lucky with Christian still being injured there. Let the Miz win a match, make him slightly relevant and then turn him face. Seriously, the guy's mic skills are SO good they will just make him liked automatically. He'll have people cheering for him all over the place

    Actually, I don't know. It was retweeted onto my timeline, but it's a little bit of a noter for you to look at. Yes, Miz may have held the WWE Championship for the longest time recently as a HEEL, but to turn him face is just right. At the moment, he has pretty much nothing to do AS a heel. Stop saying "it takes time" because Miz has been a heel forever now. Turn him face, give him something new to do, send him in a new direction, we all fall in love. He can still be "Awesome" and sell t-shirts, it's common sense now. Yours is lost somewhere.

    Has he? He may've won a match at WM, but that's it. Turning face wouldn't flop at all, fuck off! He's got all the arsenal to turn himself face. A catchphrase, the charisma to win the crowd over and he's not bad in the ring at all. His face turn doesn't really need to be gradual at all. If done right, if he was to come out & help someone, or get involved in something with a group of faces, it could happen very suddenly. It will happen in the future & if they think about it, it could happen very soon.

    Turn the Miz face WWE, because I now have nothing more to say to you. It'd be a great opportunity, Miz as a face is different. Do it.


    And do it now.
     
    #8
  9. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
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    I never said the one match has made him interesting. It's a start and I'm sure he will get more interesting as time progresses and he get's back in the Main event. Again turning him face would flop, people hate Miz right now. So no I don't think.
    I'm sure Johnny Ace will keep Miz relevant while Jericho loses some more. After all it's technically because of Miz Johnny got where he is today.
    Yes I did that's what I said MnM 2
    you say one win against Ryder doesn't make him interesting. Well I say one run in, beat down on a heel or whatever they might do to make him face doesn't do the job. He would need to be built up over the weeks.
    Rather not.
    If the past week on both RAW & Smackdown has shown me anything it's he has rewarded the men on his WrestleMania Team. HE may not be physically in his corner but to say he won't do something for the Miz especially after he gave the likes of Swagger and Ziggler a US title shot. Not only that he put R-Truth in a Handicapped match against Otunga & Henry (not a reward but my point still stands).
    No no no no no. You aren't getting it. regardless of who was on the team Miz got the pin and made it so Johnny Ace got control of both shows. People hate Johnny Ace with a passion and now because of Miz getting the pin he is in control of everything. His mic skills are much better used right now to rubbing that fact in people's faces not turning face.
    So one random person, you don't even know finds Miz boring and this means he should turn face? Maybe if it was a celeb or someone high up in the WWE I may have agreed with you but when you don't even know who that is I'm gonna have to pass.
    turning him face is not right. It would make what he did a WrestleMania pointless and would ruin the heat he is starting to get back. Just all around a bad idea.


    First you are just shoving his win aside like it meant nothing. He won at WreslteMania in one of the most talked about/hyped up matches of the entire card. don't just trivialize that like it means nothing. Any win at WrestleMania is a big deal.

    Second, I never said he didn't have the arsenal to be a face. I said it would be a piss poor idea and ruin the things he just started to get going for himself again after month of losing. And if they ever do turn him face Suddenly is a bad way to go. It does need to be gradual, keep the fans guessing for weeks and pull people in to watch.

    third i love how you told me I have no common sense and to fuck off. Makes me think I'm getting to you.

    Different yes. Good idea, Not at all.
     
    #9
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  10. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Ok, replies in this debate have concluded.

    Judging may begin.
     
    #10
  11. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Clarity of debate - I don't know who to give this point to. Both had grammatical or spelling errors throughout the debate and sometimes it was hard to understand what the hell you were trying to say. Milenko you had the right idea with the format but I think you should've elaborated on what you were saying and made it look a little bit cleaner. I guess CP will get the point.

    Punctuality -CP was the faster one of the two so he gets the point.

    Informative - No one really brought in any relevant or important info into the debate. If I could, I wouldn't give this point to anyone but since I have to I guess I'll give it to Milenko just for bringing up Wrestlemania. Also, for future reference, using someone random from twitter that no one knows isn't going to get you this point. Maybe if it was a former wrestler then it might've worked, but it wasn't so it didn't.

    You both really failed here and I'm really disappointed. Why didn't you guys bring in ratings info or anything like that when Miz was WWE Champion? There was a lot of info that could've been used and neither one of you bothered to bring in any of it.

    Persuasion -Neither man persuaded me either ways to be honest. I haven't care about the Miz now or before so it would've been easy to persuade me to either side. Milenko's arguments and points weren't strong and I guess being a face would give Miz something to do. So CP Munk gets the point.

    CP: 4 points, Milenko: 1 point.
     
    #11
  12. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity - Gonna go with CP on this one. His spacing was solid and didn't have any quoting mistakes. Goes a long way and I was confused in one of Milenko's responses.

    Point - CP Munk

    Punctuality - Milenko was late. Shame. He had the quickest response time.

    Point - CP Munk

    Informative - I guess bringing up Mania gets a point. No links, no pictures, not even a video. CP Munk should've tried finding a video of Miz at MITB last year. Dude was cheered like crazy.

    Point - hyourinmaru

    Persuasion - Neither really earned these points. The best argument was basically "it's different". That was from Munk.

    Points - CP Munk

    CH David scores this CP Munk 4, hyourinmaru 1.
     
    #12
  13. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Clarity: Good structure, lack of major mistakes and just all round better tidiness earns CP Munk the first point of this debate.

    Punctuality: CP Munk for being faster.

    Informative: Meh, neither was able to provide anything interesting at all really. Milenko, I'm going to follow in my fellow judges' steps and give you this point, merely for lack of obvious action on Munk's part.

    Persuasion: Um...do I have to give someone the points? Neither man really did very much to move me (I must sound like a broken record, echoing the earlier points), but based on the fact that I think Miz could work as a babyface, and because I was more interested in his arguments, CP Munk is taking the points.

    Note on Debate: Not very good from either side to be honest. Munk is capable of better and seemed to lack effort. I hope he steps it up next time.

    FunKay Scores It: CP Munk: 4, Milenko: 1
     
    #13
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  14. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Even if Milenko gets a perfect score from myself or Nate, he cannot win this bracket. Therefore, CP Munk has clinched his defeat over Milenko by a score of 12-3. He will move onto Loser's bracket #18 to face The Rattlesnake.

    Unfortunately, Milenko, you have been eliminated from this year's tournament. Thank you for your efforts.
     
    #14
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