Iron Man Match in Today's WWE

[Nate DaMac]

All the bullshit about "Story telling" is just stupid. Some of you pretend try to be a smartass by talking about "Story telling" but it just shows how dumb you are.

Watch Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit Royal Rumble 2003, Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar - 60 Minute Ironman match -Smackdown 2003 and Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 21 all were top notch matches without any "Story telling" bullshit attached to it.

Its Wrestling not a fucking movie.

Holy Shit. To discount storytelling, you name 4 matches that featuring excellent storytelling. That's a whole new level of stupid right there.

You don't know what storytelling is, period. You want examples of matches that are supposedly "great" matches that don't feature any storytelling? Look at those shitty Daniel Bryan/Nigel McGuiness matches in ROH. Move after move with zero selling or story telling. Those aren't wrestling matches, their gymnastic performances. The matches you named all feature good storytelling, especially the ones with Michaels and Benoit.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Holy Shit. To discount storytelling, you name 4 matches that featuring excellent storytelling. That's a whole new level of stupid right there.

You don't know what storytelling is, period. You want examples of matches that are supposedly "great" matches that don't feature any storytelling? Look at those shitty Daniel Bryan/Nigel McGuiness matches in ROH. Move after move with zero selling or story telling. Those aren't wrestling matches, their gymnastic performances. The matches you named all feature good storytelling, especially the ones with Michaels and Benoit.

First of all I named 3 matches not 4.

Secondly you don't know what story telling is. Technical wrestling doesn't need "Story telling". Thats why most people call technical wrestlers...."bad story tellers". But its not what wrestling is about. Wrestling is about competition and wrestling moves.

Watch this promo and listen to what Kurt Angle says at 2:36 mark :
[YOUTUBE]FZZXUFFK_eo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Nate DaMac]

First of all I named 3 matches not 4.

Secondly you don't know what story telling is. Technical wrestling doesn't need "Story telling". Thats why most people call technical wrestlers...."bad story tellers". But its not what wrestling is about. Wrestling is about competition and wrestling moves.

Watch this promo and listen to what Kurt Angle says at 2:36 mark :
[YOUTUBE]FZZXUFFK_eo[/YOUTUBE]

The fact that you don't see that the ridiculousness in this is astounding. This match absolutely featured storytelling. It was a tale of two cerebral masters attacking each other from every angle. There were no wasted moves, everything was done for a reason. Did you ever realize that the majority of Beniot's offense attack the neck and shoulders? It sets up for his finisher. Kurt Angle's offense centers around the back and legs, also setting up for his finisher. Did you not see the limb psychology exhibited in that match? THAT IS A PART OF STORYTELLING.

No one calls technical wrestlers bad story tellers. Bret Hart is hailed as one of the best technical wrestlers of all time, yet ALL of his best matches feature phenomenal storytelling. Case in point; his match at WM13 with Steve Austin, one of the single greatest stories EVER told in the ring. At the time, Steve Austin was still very much thought of as a technical wrestler as he was yet to suffer his neck injury. The WM13 was definitely more of a brawl, but go watch their match from the previous Survivor Series. Once again, two technical wrestlers telling a phenomenal story.

Here's a quote from someone who emphatically knows more about this topic than either of us.

In essence, storytelling is the art of making the crowd emotionally invested in the match, but more importantly, the characters in the match.

Wouldn't you say that the Benoit/Angle match fits this criteria quite well?

 

[Teddy Irving]

Work for an hour. When I say work, I don't mean it in the way that most people around here do, I'm using it by it's real definition. You know how when someone refers to someone breaking kayfabe as a shoot? Work is the opposite. Work-rate= the rate at which you work the crowd. Sheamus certainly has the work-rate to last an hour, but as I said, I'm not sure he has the endurance.

I know what a work is and i know the difference between it and a shoot lol didn't need that explained. Work-rate is the ability to be safe in the ring and keep a match interesting. My point about sheamus was more focused on the fact that I don't think he has the stamina to go for an hour in a match like an Iron man match where it is just him and his opponent.

So agile that when he has supposed to flip out of the FU he landed on his ass? Or when he slipped off the rope during his slingshot clothesline spot at Extreme Rules? Or how about the fact that he's been doing the top rope elbow drop for over a year now and has yet to hit it properly one time?

I'm not bagging on Punk's ability. He's a phenomenal worker and a damn good wrestler. I just don't now if he's still got the stamina to last an hour. I'm not saying he doesn't, just that I don't know.

Slipping on the rope is a botch same thing with not landing on his feet that doesn't make him not agile. Agility is usually measured as speedy and quick movement, not running fast but actual quick movement. Punk is agile. I think Punk has the stamina to go for an hour pretty well. How long was his match with Cena at Money in the Bank? around 45 if I remember correctly. I think he has the ability to go the extra 15 minutes if needed.

A poor worker is someone who sucks at working. Ziggler is a shit worker. Kofi has his moments and Swagger has before, but for the most part they absolutely suck at working.

Khali is actually damn good at working, but it's really only because his inability to do anything limits him to only having one style to work. He's the monster with power moves who rarely has to sell, he does that really well.

Your definition is terrible a poor worker is someone who sucks at working lol. What exactly would you define working as, an ability to be safe in the performance of your moves? The ability to tell a story in the moves you take? Ziggler does that very well sells the move and makes it look like it truely hurt. Looking good in the ring so the match flows smoothly?

His inability to do pretty much anything other than stand still and hit a massive chop to the head is why I wouldn't consider him a good worker. He is not entertaining and he can't move without it looking highly awkward. Big Show is a big guy not much smaller than Kahli and he does a heel of a lot more moves and doesn't look half as bad moving in the ring

 

[Nate DaMac]

I know what a work is and i know the difference between it and a shoot lol didn't need that explained. Work-rate is the ability to be safe in the ring and keep a match interesting.

Work rate is the rate at which you work the crowd.

My point about sheamus was more focused on the fact that I don't think he has the stamina to go for an hour in a match like an Iron man match where it is just him and his opponent.

I don't get why, all I said was that I wouldn't be surprised if he had the stamina to go that long.

Slipping on the rope is a botch same thing with not landing on his feet that doesn't make him not agile. Agility is usually measured as speedy and quick movement, not running fast but actual quick movement.

Oh yeah, Punk is super fast. Oh wait, no. He really isn't. Seriously, this isn't a dig at Punk's ability in the ring, just merely stating that he's not a very athletic guy.

Punk is agile. I think Punk has the stamina to go for an hour pretty well. How long was his match with Cena at Money in the Bank? around 45 if I remember correctly. I think he has the ability to go the extra 15 minutes if needed.

It was about 35 minutes. Again, never said he couldn't just that I didn't know.

Your definition is terrible a poor worker is someone who sucks at working lol. What exactly would you define working as, an ability to be safe in the performance of your moves? The ability to tell a story in the moves you take?

My definition of working is the definition of working. Using "work" to develop a match. If the crowd doesn't care about the match, you're not working them thus, you have a poor work-rate.

Ziggler does that very well sells the move and makes it look like it truely hurt. Looking good in the ring so the match flows smoothly?

Cool. I'm sure you and the 4 people in each crowd who cares about Ziggler recognizes this.

By the way, Ziggler's selling is embarrassing. Sometimes it's great, like his work with Brodus. Most of the time, he sucks hot ass.

His inability to do pretty much anything other than stand still and hit a massive chop to the head is why I wouldn't consider him a good worker. He is not entertaining and he can't move without it looking highly awkward. Big Show is a big guy not much smaller than Kahli and he does a heel of a lot more moves and doesn't look half as bad moving in the ring.

That was mostly said in jest. Show's a better worker than Khali, absolutely. Khali is a better worker than Ziggler, though. You can say he's not entertaining, but he's more over than Ziggler and his name on a marquee will sell more seats than Ziggler's.

The sooner you get this "worker" thing ironed out, the sooner you'll be able to move on from this ridiculous conversation. MOVES DON'T MATTER.

 

[RKO920]

7 bahahahahahha gee somebody has only watched wrestling since 1996. Guys in the 70s and 80s would wrestle for one hour in the main event all the bloody time, television constraints is the main reason matches do not go anywhere near as long anymore, people do not have the attention span to watch 60 minute matches. Flair and Steamboat, Rhodes and Harley, all wrestle 60 minute matches on a nightly basis

Been watching wrestling a whole lot longer than since 96, when I said Iron Man match, the matches in the 70s and 80s weren't given that name. Sure matches would go an hour plus back then but did not have the title of "Iron Man" so since 1996 there have been 7 official WWE "Iron Man" Matches.

 

[ABMorales787]

Ah, I got one. Randy Orton vs John Cena. Why? Well because they fucking did already. To be honest 9/10th's of the WWE roster is totally uninteresting. Watching them be uninteresting for an hour sounds more painful than enjoyable. They depend too much on their signature moves and after doing them and whatever variation they can think of... Well then what? I'll pass on anyone with the lack of experience of working a long big match.

 

[closet_fan]

Dolph just recently tweeted an "open challenge" to any wrestler in a iron man match at the first 3 hr raw. I personally would love to see him have that match. However WWE has been doing nothing with him and you're not gonna get him to fight Punk or anyone that night

As soon as I saw the thread title, I was going to bring up the tweet. It will be interesting if they wind up going through with it. It could definitely ease the pressures of the show going to 3 hours for the first time.

Maybe this is Ziggler's time? He's been getting buried lately with the whole Brodus Clay matches. Maybe Ziggler has finally paid his dues and is getting rewarded. Everyone keeps saying how Ziggler could be one of the best. This is his chance to prove it.

 

[Mebzone]

This thread is stupid everyone in the wwe can do and probably has done hour long matches but that doesn't make them good. All of u guys are Roh iwc fan boys and are blindly in love with punk. I like punk he's a good wrestler but he is really repetitive and sloppy in the ring and his acting is god awful. I don't think anyone right now could do what hbk and hart did nor could they do what hhh and rock did and it's not cuz of their talent put that creative sucks. Look at the build those two matches had then look at the star power in those mathes. Now tell me if u really think Bryan and punk can pull off something like that. I don't and I'm pretty sure anybody that isn't an Roh fan doesn't want to even see them try. Now a submission match I'm all for it

 

[TakersBroski987]

Seemingly like the vast majority, I would love to see a Punk/Bryan Iron Man match. I would like to see a Ziggler Iron man match, but the problem would be his opponent. Who could be chosen as a viable and safe option?

As someone earlier pointed out; of the current roster, there are very few options when considering Iron Man Match. Cena and Orton have already competed in one against each other. Punk and Bryan would be epic against each other.

An Orton/Sheamus bout would be interesting. So far, Sheamus' reign as World Champ hasn't been the rousing success that WWE may have hoped for. The 2 out of 3 falls match at Extreme Rules, helped Sheamus' credibility, as does the Fatal 4-Way tonight, but an Iron Man Match could really cement him as "The Man" on Friday Nights.

 

[The Liar]

Seemingly like the vast majority, I would love to see a Punk/Bryan Iron Man match. I would like to see a Ziggler Iron man match, but the problem would be his opponent. Who could be chosen as a viable and safe option?

I think CM Punk would be the best option for Ziggler to face in an Iron Man match. They are of a similar size, have a similar style and as we have seen in the past have a lot of chemistry in the ring. Plus, even if Ziggler isn't super-over with the crowd yet, at least Punk is and that would be strong enough for a match on Raw.

I would also say that John Cena, CM Punk and Randy Orton could be considered for this.

 

[BenChillin]

Punk's done many 60 minute matches that end in a draw, which end up going to 65 when the crowd chant's 5 more minutes and the ref gives it to them.

I saw CM Punk and Samoa Joe do this in Chicago for an ROH and I was not bored at all.

Bryan Danielson can do this with him if they booked it right.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Punk vs. Bryan could pull off an Iron Man match and deliver a great one. So could Punk & Cena, Punk & Orton, Bryan & Cena, Bryan & Orton. Cena & Ziggler, Bryan & Ziggler, Punk & Ziggler, etc.

There are several guys in WWE right now that are capable of being put together and deliver a high quality IMM. We don't see a lot of these matches and they feel all the more special because of it. These are usually the kind of matches we see two big stars put into as a means of drawing at a ppv. The fact that WWE hasn't just thrown them about all willy nilly, while kind of frustrating as they've got the talent to put on some killer ones, has kept the special novelty of an IMM fresh.

 

[Rjw2688]

As soon as I saw the thread title, I was going to bring up the tweet. It will be interesting if they wind up going through with it. It could definitely ease the pressures of the show going to 3 hours for the first time.

Maybe this is Ziggler's time? He's been getting buried lately with the whole Brodus Clay matches. Maybe Ziggler has finally paid his dues and is getting rewarded. Everyone keeps saying how Ziggler could be one of the best. This is his chance to prove it.

I would love for Ziggler to get a push.... And if he is willing to do an Iron man match then why not give it to him the first night of raw.... Like I said before its tough to see someone he can fight in it. I also agree it sucks how bad he is getting buried. I just can't see them giving him the match since there has only been 7 and they would want to save it for a PPV most likely. But an Iron Man match to start off Raw is possibly a good way to start the 3hr Raws. I don't think people would be as invested as if it was with punk but why not have a Ziggler/Swagger. Have them feud in the upcoming weeks or something.

 

[midgensa]

Obviously the first two names that come to mind are Punk and Cena. These are the top two FULL TIME wrestlers with the company right now and they would put on a hell of a match.

But, we have not seen a few other feuds in a while. Punk vs. Orton would be great. Punk vs. Daniels. Cena vs. Orton. Daniels vs. Sheamus. Hell, throw Ziggler, Kingston and Rhodes into the mix and it would help push any one of them over.

I was just thinking the other day after Christian winning that Christian vs. Rhodes in an Iron Man match would be excellent, but that can't sell a PPV.

In the end ... I think I go with Cena vs. Punk at SummerSlam. That would be epic and would sell.

 

[The Eighties]

JR was talking about a Punk vs Bryan Iron Match on his blog I think, it certainly would be a breeze for them and judging from the fantastic crowd response at Over The Limit they could hold the audience. However I think a submission match is more likely.

Dolph throwing out that challenge now gives him plenty of time to get moved into a position where the match would be viable, but I think they'd only give him a 30 minute Iron Man match unless he's working Cena or Punk.

 

[MCMG]

I know many would hate it but i wouldn't mind Orton/cena has an iron man match to define their era. It may not be the most technical match but it would have good falls and good be a tough aggressive match. ( they may already of had an iron-man match but i wouldn't mind it again)

For me Punk is ideal for an iron-man match. As is Jericho and Ziggler so any combination of the three would be very enjoyable.
I also reckon that Sheamus and Barret could put on a great Iron-man match. An hour may be a bit too long( between 30-45 would be fine).

 

[TLK]

JR was talking about a Punk vs Bryan Iron Match on his blog I think, it certainly would be a breeze for them and judging from the fantastic crowd response at Over The Limit they could hold the audience. However I think a submission match is more likely.

Even though we just got a dusty finish at Over The Limit, I could see a Submission Match ending with both Punk and Bryan tapping simultaneously. I think they should capitalize on neither competitor being able to 1-up the other, proving just how equal they really are. This could set up an Iron Man Match to settle the score.

 

[The Eighties]

Even though we just got a dusty finish at Over The Limit, I could see a Submission Match ending with both Punk and Bryan tapping simultaneously. I think they should capitalize on neither competitor being able to 1-up the other, proving just how equal they really are. This could set up an Iron Man Match to settle the score.

This could certainly work and I'd be all for it. Another possibility is their match at No Way Out could be an Ultimate Submission match.