I Think Triple H Was Right

[akrassikauda]

A couple of months ago Triple H gave an interview. In the interview he said in some extent that the current PG era allows WWE in certain spots to do edgy things and it will be refreshing. In the attitude era they did things every week and over time people became numb to it as in language and violence. When he said these things he was labeled as out of touch. This came from a guy who was in WWE before the attitude era and seen what happened when they started to push those boundaries, so I took his word for it and was in the minority.

Now look at what has happened over the past few weeks. Barrett and Orton's falls count anywhere match, for those who don't read spoilers and dirt sheets they believed Barrett threw Orton down a flight of stairs. That was an awe moment. Two weeks ago on RAW when Kane and Cena were fighting outside Cena hit Kane with a crowbar. When was the last time anyone used a crowbar,this past Monday Cena beat the crap out of Swagger. The next day everyone thought that was refreshing for Cena, he's getting a new attitude. When CM Punk told Laurinitus(however you spell it) that he would beat him like a bitch and his current scathing anti Johnny Ace promo it was another did you hear what he just said moment.

When it comes to things like this he's right you can't do it all the time or it becomes stale, but when you do things like this it does give off an awe factor it gets people talking. The current demographic and the old are being served,but the old has to recognize this.

Thoughts. Bring real conversation *Note:This is not an Attitude Era was better than PG era thread*

 

[dotty_84]

Obviously Trips would say something like this and if he's promoting PG over Attitude to the fans that like the latter era then fairplay, there are advantages ofcourse, yeah the shock factor, i think most people who crap on PG are the folks who read spoilers and dirt sheets. Which is up to them but to then complain about edgy unknown product, is an oxymoron kind of thing to do.

I don't think many people got bored with Attitude era, but if you weigh it up to now, some storylines were ridiculous.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I think Triple H is right that having less edgy content makes them more memorable once they happen on TV. Even Corrnette and non die hard ECW fans had that same opinion.

Problem with this is that the WWE went PG and stopped the edgy content because they felt having less of that will make them more refreshing. The reasons were purley political and PR, Billy Graham said it himself the reason why WWE went PG is because Linda McMahon was running for senate and all the drugs and people dying WWE needed to clean up its image.

It was probably to coiencedence that once Linda McMahon lost the Senate race the WWE slowly started bringing back the edgy content especially during WM time.

Personally for me PG and Attitude doesn't matter as long as the product is good. That's the problem with PG, not because of the content per se but all the political reasons why creative will not push a certain wrestler. Example is MVP, who was not pushed because of his previous criminal record hence not good for PG. Or some other ridicolous thing happening as a result of PG like stopping in the middle of a match to cover up the blood.

 

[PlayTheGameHHH]

I totally agree with HHH. When people say ass, bitch and bastard (Daniel Bryan called Big Show a bastard) it has some shock value. People think "WOW, he just said ass/bitch/bastard on a PG show!" and that's why I feel if people just stopped jumping on the "Attitude Era was better" bandwagon they would see just how refreshing today's product really is. There's something for everyone. You have John Cena for the kids, Punk for the adults etc.

 

[Brother Love]

Yes HHH is right, and yet he's wrong at the same time. Yes thing became somewhat watered down towards the end of the attitude era so today when you hear someone say bastard or use a crowbar there is shock value. But just like the violence, profanity and t&a became old towards the end of the attitude era, so to is the whole PG era of today. We have been in the PG era for a number of years now. At first people were saying this will never work. Soon everyone became accustom to the idea. Now everyone is clamoring enough already, and the reason is simple. The same things everyone pointed out that is currently giving the wwe it shock value are the things people want more of. There are only so many Disney movies a person can watch before they go nuts, just like there are only so many horror movies a person can watch before they grow tired of it.

For this reason alone I can see the PG era starting to come to an end. Yes you opened up a new market and expanded on the demographics when wwe went PG, but if wwe wants to keep it product fresh they have to move on to a new era. What will that era be? I'm no expert but given all the dirt sheets/wrestling websites/chat boards out there and the explosion of twitter, I say we may be entering the reality era. The CM Punk promo last year was the spring board for this. Not because it was something you normally wouldn't see on the PG show, not because it was a throw back to the attitude era, it's because it was real. OK maybe it was scripted, but it had a real feel to it and it was something everyone could relate to.
I have nothing against the PG era but I believe it has run its course and it's time to move on to something else.

 

[TripleCrown]

I agree with the 'both right and wrong" point of view. It depends on who is saying what and in what context. The character of SCSA never sounded stale no matter how often he turned up 2-3 beers in the ring and "Austin 3:16 means I just whipped your ass" never sounded old. If it fit the persona of the character it wasn't something that was going to go stale but if it started to look like it was just for shock value then it became less and less shock value and, in the case of the Katy Vick thing, too revolting to appeal to anyone. At the same time, removingthe "edge" of the SCSA character would have changed that part of the character that made him "Stone Cold" which isn't a good thing, either. Like I said, I agree with the "both right and wrong" opinion.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Of course he was right. All you have to do is stop and think about things for a few minutes to see that using edgier content every so often tends to make said content have more meaning.

During the Attitude Era, there were always things going on that were edgy or raunchy or controversial to the point where it became the norm. It eventually got the the point where, sometimes, raunchiness and attempts to generate controversy became more important than whether or not there was a reason for that content on that particular night. It seemed that every wrestler in the company was some sort of anti-hero, there were no clean cut good guys or bad guys, nobody to really rally behind or rally against. Nothing wrong with a couple of guys like that in a company, but not when it's practically the entire roster. Again, just like the various raunchy or controversial angles, having so many characters straddling the line between good and bad ultimately caused the whole concept to lose its edge. It just became mundane, part of the standard norm. Punk gave a very, very heated promo with Big Johnny thie past Monday. He threw in a couple of "dirty words" to further emphasize his anger towards him and it worked. One reason why it worked is because we don't hear lots of cursing or swearing in WWE promos. It's rare, hence it has more effect. By the time I finished watching Pulp Fiction for the first time, the word "fuck" no longer had that edgy or forbidden feeling to it that it holds for a lot of teenagers.

A common argument you'll hear from Attitude Era marks regarding WWE is how WWE's ratings aren't nearly as strong now as they were during the AE. What they don't acknowledge is that, when it was all said and done, the Attitude Era was a fad. Fads tend to last a while, even years in fact, but people eventually move onto other things. WWE didn't go PG until 2008, which was long after WWE's ratings settled into the 3s. Prior to that, they still did matches with blood in them, they still had wrestlers that practically swore every other word in promos, women were portrayed as sex objects in bikini contests & pillow fight matches & lingerie matches but none of it was able to keep the ratings at the record highs they'd seen in the early 90s & late 2000s. The end of the Monday Night Wars was the beginning of the end for the boom age as the WWE's audience started to decline in 2001, the same year WCW went under.

 

[H33LTurn]

Wrestling largely depends on the cultural aspects of the time. In the 90's all the edgy stuff was cool because of the emergence of Trash TV and reality shows. Currently theres a larger appeal to children in the general market because they're the perfect consumers. Parents will buy anything for their kids and support anything thats kid friendly aka PG. But lately we've been seeing edgier topics on TV and in childrens shows. WWE follows the lead so to say. Like Triple H said, you cant do the edgy stuff on a weekly basis, it becomes redundant and overshadows the other features that the product has to add, but every now and then it catches you by surprise and thats what makes it significant, like the Cena outburst on RAW. We know Cena's the "play by the rules' guy, so when he attacked Swagger it was straight out of left field.

 

[Kliq4Life]

So CM Punk saying the word "BITCH" is edgy, um ok. PG if used right can be effective as long as it is not boring and corny, which the WWE product is right now and the ratings prove that.

 

[xavyer]

Well, everyone is right, they shoulk keep up doing what they are doing, they can keep the pg era and every now and then do something edgy, it keeps the element of surprise fresh, and it will be exiting to watch.......

 

[tvcolosi]

I posted something like this a while back. I referred too if as "re-training" the fans. If almost got too the point where you needed to see a guys head cut off to see something new. the occasional curse word means something more.
edgier stories are a big deal.
and just wait for when the next time someone in WWE blades just think how big thats going to be. thats why the industry goes in waves, new fans need too get invested in the product.

I am 27 and I was almost done with wrestling until the CM Punk angle over the summer. If they do Y2J/Punk fued, you will see the best PG era fued possible, and I have high hopes it could be an all timer. I just hope Jericho stays after WM cause Y2J/Punk needs too have a series of matches.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

That will never happen. Ever. The only blood we'll see in WWE now will be totally accidental.

Well, it's funny that that came up. As I started reading the one thought that came to me was how batshit crazy fans went when Jericho took a round out of Flair a couple of years back and Flair was split open hardway. There hadn't been blood on TV for a long time and it was something unique and special.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I agree with the 'both right and wrong" point of view. It depends on who is saying what and in what context. The character of SCSA never sounded stale no matter how often he turned up 2-3 beers in the ring and "Austin 3:16 means I just whipped your ass" never sounded old. If it fit the persona of the character it wasn't something that was going to go stale but if it started to look like it was just for shock value then it became less and less shock value and, in the case of the Katy Vick thing, too revolting to appeal to anyone. At the same time, removingthe "edge" of the SCSA character would have changed that part of the character that made him "Stone Cold" which isn't a good thing, either. Like I said, I agree with the "both right and wrong" opinion.

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I disagree about the "Stone Cold" Steve Austin character never getting old.

I remember in 2001, when they were going to have SCSA vs the Rock at WMX7, I predicted that Austin would go heel. I was right.

I predicted this, because, for mine, SCSA's character had somewhat been played out. It was fresh when he was feuding with Vince during 1998, but three years later, he was saying the same catchphrases, Stunning everyone etc. I felt that Austin needed to go heel to reinvigorate his character, and against the Rock at WM, was the right opportunity to do it.

I thought the "heel" SCSA was brilliant. He sipped coffee and tea, not beer, he ran from fights etc. After seeing the same SCSA for four years, it was nice to have a change. It also allowed Austin to have a more comedic side, and Austin was very funny, especially in backstage skits with Kurt Angle.

My point is, this is an example of Triple H's point. Doing the exact same character, week-in-week-out, gets stale, no matter who you are. Austin being a heel added a dimension to his character, and when he went "face" again, post-Invasion, his old act seemed fresh as well, since he hadn't done it for months.

The Undertaker is another example. The Undertaker has lasted so long because he has changed his character up. He was Mortician Undertaker, Ministry Taker, Biker Taker, "Deadman" Taker. If he had stayed with the one charcter, UT would never had reached the heights that he did.

Change is necessary. Face to heel, and vice versa, Hulkamania era to "Attitude Era" to PG Era. Nothing lasts forever, and it would get boring if it did.

 

[GameOver]

I think Triple H is right that having less edgy content makes them more memorable once they happen on TV. Even Corrnette and non die hard ECW fans had that same opinion.

Problem with this is that the WWE went PG and stopped the edgy content because they felt having less of that will make them more refreshing. The reasons were purley political and PR, Billy Graham said it himself the reason why WWE went PG is because Linda McMahon was running for senate and all the drugs and people dying WWE needed to clean up its image.

It was probably to coiencedence that once Linda McMahon lost the Senate race the WWE slowly started bringing back the edgy content especially during WM time.

Personally for me PG and Attitude doesn't matter as long as the product is good. That's the problem with PG, not because of the content per se but all the political reasons why creative will not push a certain wrestler. Example is MVP, who was not pushed because of his previous criminal record hence not good for PG. Or some other ridicolous thing happening as a result of PG like stopping in the middle of a match to cover up the blood.

If you had watched the WWE Stockholders meeting from last year, Vince stated the reasons for PG

A) Publicly traded company means more opportunities for business, but also mean having to answer to shareholders
B) Advertising - family aimed companies which there are more of then not
C) Charities - WWE can't exactly promote charity work and reading programmes etc, if they portray sex and violence on there shows
Which comes to D) Image, WWE is to be a family friendly entertainment company
E) WWE is about entertainment and acquiring content. (like google does)

F) and lastly they pushed the envelope so far in the attitude era that there was nowhere to go, by doing a reversal and effectively going back to the Hogan era they are starting a fresh, acquiring a new generation of fans so they can grow again, which they have, there's been more edge creeping in the last 2 yrs.

Take it for what it's worth but there are the facts.
PG = more money, more media, more exposure, wider range of fans
Attitude = more injuries, more media scrutiny, less appeal to larger networks, less appeal to non adults

 

[Ellye]

It has always been my opinion in general regarding things like this.
Swear words only have any impact if they are rare. If you hear a swear word every other minute, it's the same as nothing.
The PG rating makes them rare, and this is great for the product.

Attitude = more injuries, more media scrutiny, less appeal to larger networks, less appeal to non adults

Am I the only one who really don't think that the Attitude Era model appeal to actual adults? It seems much more targeted at teenagers.
At least for me, as an adult, I'd much, much rather watch a PG show than a show that tries too hard to be edgy and polemical.

 

[Xumer]

Well since that's the way it is, why don't we quit the PG Era and now go for the G Era? Everything you say that makes the PG era so great and necessary would only be multiplied by a G rating.

 

[Marv95]

A) Publicly traded company means more opportunities for business, but also mean having to answer to shareholders

Didn't they become public in 1999/early 2000?

C) Charities - WWE can't exactly promote charity work and reading programmes etc, if they portray sex and violence on there shows

Did they not do charities during the Ruthless Aggression period? Plus wrestling is a violent form of entertainment.

D) Image, WWE is to be a family friendly entertainment company

There's a difference between trying to be family-friendly(like WCW during the Bischoff era and WWF during the Hogan era) and kid-friendly.

I kinda get what HHH is saying but at the expense of the product it hasn't been enjoyable at all. And not because of the rating itself; it's because they confused TV-PG with TV-G at times. And I need more than basic cuss words like "bitch" and "ass" to really consider something really edgy.

 

[MVA09]

Well its true that when you do it once in a while, it creates an awe factor...but this show isnt about 1 week...its a weekly program...if in 4 weeks they are gonna give us 1 awe factor...then I dont think wwe would become fun again...

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

It seems to me that wwe is starting to get its edge back. During the Attitude era everytime Austin came out he went to every corner of the ring raised his arms with the birds. People came to expect that everytime he came out therefore it became stale and lost its awe factor. But now wwe has more of an awe factor and are starting to get more edge into their program. I dont think theyll ever get back to an attitude era which is fine with me. I kinda like it the way it is. Still edgy with an awe factor but also more family oriented.

 

[FlairFan2003]

There's a difference between trying to be family-friendly(like WCW during the Bischoff era and WWF during the Hogan era) and kid-friendly.

I kinda get what HHH is saying but at the expense of the product it hasn't been enjoyable at all. And not because of the rating itself; it's because they confused TV-PG with TV-G at times. And I need more than basic cuss words like "bitch" and "ass" to really consider something really edgy.

WCW was never family friendly compared to WWE. Back in the 80's you had much more blood and violence, really nasty beatdowns, even women occassionally being beaten up, although that was pre-Bischoff.

Still, under Bischoff we got TV Screens filled with half naked women (The Nitro Dancers, the fore runners to the creation of Divas in WWE), violent arena matches that involved beating people while sticking their head in the tiolet (Thank you Benoit & Sullivan), multiple stories about unfaithful females, etc. If anything WCW getting away from the Hogan-Brett Hart era of family friendly Disney Land Entertainment, and being so successful, was what pushed WWE into The Attitude Era to begin with.

 

[JBK2008]

Triple H is absolutely right about this. The edgy material that was everywhere in the 90's was awesome to see...for a while. As time went on, we fans went from "OMG! They just put him through a barbed wired table!' or Holy S###! He's on fire!" to "There he goes again, thumbtacks..." and " Not another steel chair." It began to bore us as it was an every week thing.

Fast forward to the present day and vanilla shows we are used to now and the "attitude" like things we're seeing from time to time and it's just nice to see again. The older fans may not like the boring crap week in week out, but the youth needs to bring brought in every so often. The occasion Holy S### stuff is a nice change of pace, and it could very well be a sign of what's to come.

 

[flair4ever]

I accually think VKM and all wwe execs Are very smart, just think about it im 30 so i grew up with the golden era when i was a kid saying my prayers eating my vitamins ect. then when i was a teen i had the attitude era, edgy a little racy just what every teen boy wanted. our parents took us to shows and bought us the merch because the wwe/f the knew was family entertainment. and now that the kids from the golden era and the teens from the attitude era have grown and now we have kids VKM goes all PG on us. And he is basically redoing the golden era for the next generation

 

[byrnside]

I totally agreed with Triple H when I read/saw [can't remember] that interview. I've been saying it since the end of the Attitude Era. I often wonder what it would eventually take to impress most of us. I can remember when a DDT was a big move, now it's common place. The same was true for blood, sex and swearing. It just got old to me. I much prefer that it's more rare now. It's more special now when it does happen.

 

[itssoeasy123]

Of course Triple H is right! The guy knows the business inside and out, he's knows what he's talking about. The reason WWE stopped bladeing, because if a wrestler was to bleed again, it will be a shocking moment. WWE stopped with the violent hardcore spots because stuff that like wasn't getting a reaction anymore. Alot of stop was just becoming cliche, so WWE has to try and take some of that stuff away.

That's why when people swear now in the WWE it's effective, people notice. Before, swear words used to fly around like air and it didn't come to a shock to anyone that a wrestler said "btich" or "bastard."

 

[Marv95]

WCW was never family friendly compared to WWE. Back in the 80's you had much more blood and violence, really nasty beatdowns, even women occassionally being beaten up, although that was pre-Bischoff.

Still, under Bischoff we got TV Screens filled with half naked women (The Nitro Dancers, the fore runners to the creation of Divas in WWE), violent arena matches that involved beating people while sticking their head in the tiolet (Thank you Benoit & Sullivan), multiple stories about unfaithful females, etc. If anything WCW getting away from the Hogan-Brett Hart era of family friendly Disney Land Entertainment, and being so successful, was what pushed WWE into The Attitude Era to begin with.

And WCW was still TV-PG. Look it up on YouTube. Even after the nWo showed up there was no cussing, no sexual scenes, and lack of blood. Again family friendly and kid-friendly are two different things. The former means it has something for everybody which WCW did. The latter means WWE(at times) in 1995 and 2009-2010.

ECW actually lead WWE into the Attitude Era.