How big of a star do you think Roman is?

[AegonTargaryen]

Few wrestlers today have the same type of appeal as Steve Austin and The Rock did, let alone have the same appeal to the SAME degree as them.

How I came up with the central issue of this thread is..I was thinking how Sheamus(I just discovered that through YouTube a few days ago) was once a Bodyguard for the band U2! And I thought, how big of a success is he now? Obviously being a bodyguard for Paris Hilton or some band, even if its U2 is not some type of a success, as you're just another piece of muscle who gets to surround these celebrities in order to "protect" them in arenas and elsewhere.

And if you look at Sheamus now, there's obviously one benefit in that he probably makes a lot of money as one of WWE's solid performers/workhorses. He's also somewhat famous, far more than when he was a bodyguard anyhow. But, what really struck me was- is Sheamus really that much of a deal? Sure, in fake wrestling, he's a multiple-time world champion, MITB winner, Royal Rumble Winner, tag champion, KOTR, US champion, but at the end of the day, could you really call him a "Star" like you would- Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle?

This got me to a realization that in Wrestling, if you take any name, most wrestlers or superstars evoke only one image in mind, that being, "Oh sheamus, he's a wrestler, he wrestles..just like Cesaro does".

And isn't that exactly how we'd identify Dean Ambrose?

Could we really say Sheamus and have someone's mind go, "OMG, Sheamus!" the same manner as they would, "OMG, The Rock!" even back in 2001?

Think about it...logically, The Rock in 1998 was still another guy with stature and muscle, alongside Kama Mustafa, D'Lo Brown and Mark Henry. He was, in fact, on the same level as HHH or Billy Gunn(except that he was a charisma and popularity timebomb..just ticking, and HHH wasn't).

And in 2001, just say 'The Rock', and no one would think of him as we'd today think of Sheamus or Dean Ambrose, as "just another wrestler". And that only intensified beyond 2001 once the Rock/Dwayne Johnson went on to become one of Hollywood's most iconic and successful actors and action stars.

With that being said,

is it fair to say that when someone says "Roman Reigns", more than 5 out of 10 random people comprising of say..hardcore fans, casual fans, and non-fans or someone who's just barely aware of WWE or wrestling, would have any better reaction to the thought of "Roman Reigns" as being anything more than "Another wrestler" or "some guy who wrestles in the WWE" ?

What sort of a response or reaction would the mention of Sheamus, Dean Ambrose, Cesaro and pretty much everyone on the roster(except may be AJ Styles) evoke in those 10 randomly selected people?

Lastly, a really tricky and interesting question- how would you differentiate between Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns in terms of this same measurement of Popularity/Appeal not just in Wrestling globally, but a little beyond, say, in terms of being a Celebrity/Icon.

Bring it on!

 

[ShinChan]

He's not a big star. Hell, not even a star for me. Stars are AJ Styles, John Cena, Brock Lesnar and such.

I feel that I am going to get something special with the above. Not always in case of Brock though. But still. I don't feel the same for Roman Reigns.

I get more of a star vibe from Braun Strowman than Roman Reigns. The only thing that tries to make look Roman Reigns like a star is his superman booking. That's all.

 

[#hamler]

With the exception of John Cena, no one on the roster has the celebrity status outside of the WWE. I'm sure Roman Reigns will get there but very few know who he is unless they know the slightest bit about wrestling. Even AJ Styles fits in that boat. He's not a celebrity outside of wrestling. He's just a wrestler to someone who doesn't watch wrestling. In the attitude era, wrestling was a cool thing to do. Stars were more popular and there was a bit more cross appeal. It's totally different now.

 

[Rayne]

I don't think the WWE wants Roman Reigns to be popular in the same mold as a John Cena, a Rock, or a Hulk Hogan.

Imagine if you took a significant amount of your limited time, money, and resources into promoting someone to be the face of your brand. Then, a few years after they're starting to really repay that investment back........ they stop wrestling and start shooting movies. Or they stop wrestling for you and start wrestling for the guy who will pay them more.

The WWE got a great long run out of John Cena, so it's unfair to mention him in that context- but the way that Cena became popular lends insight into the way they want Roman Reigns to be popular. John Cena worked both face and heel at the same time to different demographics; the exact same thing is happening with Roman Reigns, except he's death on a microphone so it's more like a faint echo of something more significant. Rock was a trash-talking heel who endeared himself to the fans; John Cena started as a trash-talking heel who tried to endear himself to the fans. Hulk Hogan made millions of dollars by simply going out there and smiling, and you can see where I'm going with this. Every cycle is a reaction to the previous cycle.

In raw terms, is Roman Reigns as big a star to the non-professional wrestling audience as other names? Of course not and duh. Roman Reigns hasn't even been in WWE proper for five years yet, and it's a little past the mark to assume that the WWE has plans for him as Big Public Facing Star just because he's also a Top Guy.

 

[GOOZEKING]

I see Roman as A top guy but I don't think he can be THE top guy. It's just when you look at Roman and you compare his positives and negatives with other top guys on the roster. I don't think he is any higher than other top guys. To me Roman is on the same level as a Rollins, Bray, a Joe. You know TOP guys just not THE top guy

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I feel like if you compare him to what the rest of the raw roster, he's pretty much in a league of his own. He's the star on the roster right now. The closest thing to him as far as popularity on the raw brand is Braun strowman, another Vince's project by the way.

He will probably never be at the same level as cena, rock, Austin, hogan and others but the thing is, when you put him in a main event match, it feel like a big match no matter who's he's facing and it helps guys that aren't on his level in the process and That's what important. Also you have to realize, that what they want right now is somebody young enough and healthy enough to replace cena with their key demographic which are kids and he's over with that demo so if you look at it that way, he's a star already.

In the end, wwe needed to invest in their futur and hoping that guys like Joe, an styles, Finn Balor just to name a few, will be in the company 10 years is a big gamble, reigns will be there for the long run unless he get a serious injury so in the aspect, he's going to be the face of the company for a long time.

 

[ISkye]

I mean they pushed him harder than any other wrestler in history almost at this point with more money poured into the promotion of him than he’s bringing in. He’s a star, but a guy like AJ Styles came in and while fans may of at least heard of him he became a guy who gets bigger reactions than the top guy in less than a third of the time with way less given to him. It’s pretty bad. He’s a good worker, but they really messed up on him. Saying he’ll ever be a Rock, Cena, Austin, Hogan or even a Jericho is a stretch. Closest we had got buried and fed to Reigns as being one of his small buddies. Seth Rollins. You literally have to give this dude millions of dollars a month, endless PPV & TV main events, endless high profile feuds where he goes over, and legends to put him over. Even then that’s not true either, because he still hasn’t peaked above pseudo top dog in sports entertainment. He’s just a big dog.

 

[Wolf Pac]

In regards to John Cena being "popular", it seems people are confusing starring in Hollywood movies and TV shows for being popular. With the exception of his Doctor Of Thuganomics run in 2004, John Cena has never been popular. Didn't even come close to the level of Hogan, Austin, Rock, not even Goldberg. The guy has been hated by majority of fans and seen as the guy who killed wrestling's coolness/popularity for the last decade. He'll forever be associated with that stigma and bringing nothing but negativity to wrestling's image. If starring in Hollywood movies and TV shows equates to popularity then you may aswell deem guys like Nathan Jones and Kurrgan "popular" because they have been in Hollywood movies too. If John Cena is a celebrity of any kind, I assure you it's only in America and not outside of it as Cena is an absolute nobody down here in the UK. He doesn't have the same celebrity status and appeal as the top stars that came before him.

As for Roman, he's being pushed the exact same way Cena has for the last 12 years, he's being shoved down our throats so bad that we have no choice but to accept him as WWE's top star, so yes Roman will be going Hollywood and starring in movies and TV shows in 10 years time. But "popular" and a "big star"? Not even close just like John Cena isn't.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

It hasn't been long enough since we had that discussion...So I'll be brief.

He's a star, but not a superstar. Superstars are HHH, Cena, Lesnar.

Roman is just a star. Main event star for sure, but definately not a superstar. Just like everyone on the WWE roster. I'd argue that out of the "stars", Roman isn't even #1.

However he's about 5th or 6th on the line. Things might change, but consider this:

Cena, Triple H, Rock, Austin.. They all were superstars after their first 5 years in the WWE. Roman isn't. WWE's popularity at each time is an important factor in this, but so is Roman's and WWE's failure to bring in or back, viewers.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Noto thisu shitu again.

Ofcourse he is the star. Not on Cena or Rock level but biggest active star(not counting part timers like Cena or Brock) they have today. WWE invested a lot in him and they wouldnt have big plans if they dont think he makes them money. Plus he is consistent performer. Just look at IC title when he is there and you can see how he elevates it. Now sure, you can say that is because main title isnt there, but you still have to be a star to carry title like that. As for others, Rollins got injured and they couldnt count on him and he was somebody who was pulling main event weight before Roman was no1. Now you can say Styles, but he cant be counted as "the future" due to age (he is 40 already and Roman is 32). Braun is there but he still has a lot to learn and even WWE knows that and gives him "backseat" for now which is probably smart so it wouldnt backfire. Reign constantly delivers for now and WWE can be happy with him. Maybe in future somebody else jumps higher(I am impressed with Owens, if he continues to be constantly good maybe him) but for now Roman does the job.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Again with another one of these topics?

Reigns will never be THE top guy. I get that Cena had those who disagreed with his massive push. The WWE were able to make it work with him due to his skills on the mic, how good he can be in big matches (which is the ONLY strength Reigns has), all those publicity appearances, and how passionate he is about the product. Reigns only has one of those characteristics. He's garbage on the mic and being able to deliver in big matches can only get you so far. The WWE should have been making him into the next Batista instead of the next Cena. He's a top guy, sure, but the face of the federation and THE undisputed top guy? Never going to happen. It's unbelievable how stubborn Vince has been with this. He needs to give up and try someone else like Rollins, Styles, or anyone who the fans actually want in that position.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

After reading some comments on this subject, i feel like we're forgetting What being WWE is think a main event star is suppose to be. For them, A Superstar is somebody that transcend the world of WWE, He's somebody that even peoples that don't watch WWE know who he his. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Rock, Austin, Cena and Undertaker to a extend are guys that if you talk to somebody that never watch wrestling and mention wrestling, they will automatically link it to one of those guys. They also look for them to be able to get success outside WWE, Guys like Cena, Batista, Rock and Lesnar are prime example of guys that are or we're megastars in WWE.

Is roman Reigns on that level, not yet but to be quite honest, nobody on the roster is on that level at the moment not even AJ Styles. But is he a draw. I would say yes he is, especially with the domagraphic that matters the most for WWE and that's families and kids. Right Now the future for WWE is Reigns and Strowman. Their the guys that will lead them to the next era of the company because they are the biggest draw they have and they have a lot of years left in the careers compare to guys like AJ Styles who pretty much said he wants to retires in a couple of years or guys like Joe and Finn that don't have 15 years left in their career.

So will he become the next Cena, probably not, but he's getting better on the mic every time, he got charisma and he's a solid worker that can have great matches every time he's wrestles. Hell, if you want proof, just watch his match with Elias. He was able to give Elias his best match since he started in WWE. So i think Reigns is their to stay and is a big of a star as you can get in today wrestling climate. Will he be able to cross over to the mainstream, time will tell but with his look and charisma, i would be surprise if he does.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Few wrestlers today have the same type of appeal as Steve Austin and The Rock did, let alone have the same appeal to the SAME degree as them.

Are you saying the same thing twice here let alone saying the same thing over again?

Austin and Rock had charisma and personality that fit the time of their ascendance in WWE but they were on top of WWE for a good while before they became more main stream names (Celebrity Death Match, SNL, Mummy).

is it fair to say that when someone says "Roman Reigns", more than 5 out of 10 random people comprising of say..hardcore fans, casual fans, and non-fans or someone who's just barely aware of WWE or wrestling, would have any better reaction to the thought of "Roman Reigns" as being anything more than "Another wrestler" or "some guy who wrestles in the WWE" ?

I'm not sure what exactly you are asking about. All hardcore and casual WWE fans know who Roman Reigns is. Not many non-WWE fans know who he is. He hasn't done much beyond interviews and some charity. Friends and family of WWE fans may know who Roman Reigns is if they are attentive enough.

What sort of a response or reaction would the mention of Sheamus, Dean Ambrose, Cesaro and pretty much everyone on the roster(except may be AJ Styles) evoke in those 10 randomly selected people?

Roman Reigns will get a bigger reaction from the people who actually watch WWE. The reaction won't necessarily be positive but it will at least be bigger. In general he will get more of a reaction than AJ Styles as well. Just like Roman, none of the people mentioned above are known much outside of wrestling fans, hardcore or casual.

Lastly, a really tricky and interesting question- how would you differentiate between Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns in terms of this same measurement of Popularity/Appeal not just in Wrestling globally, but a little beyond, say, in terms of being a Celebrity/Icon.

Not tricky or that interesting. Neither guy has appeal outside of wrestling. Roman has a better chance but right now neither guy has much popularity or appeal outside of wrestling.

Here is my list of current WWE superstars who have popularity outside of wrestling:

1. Cena - clearly
2. Lesnar - MMA
3. Miz - MTV
4. Jericho - reality shows, music, game show
5. Angle - movies and Olympic medal
6. Charlotte - got a nice bump from the Flair doc
7. Orton - vines
.
.
.
8. Everyone else

I may be forgetting someone but I think my point is made.

 

[Navi]

is it fair to say that when someone says "Roman Reigns", more than 5 out of 10 random people comprising of say..hardcore fans, casual fans, and non-fans or someone who's just barely aware of WWE or wrestling, would have any better reaction to the thought of "Roman Reigns" as being anything more than "Another wrestler" or "some guy who wrestles in the WWE" ?

I'm a little confused here, aren't both of those descriptions the same. Anyway any fan of wrestling hardcore or casual would know who Roman Reigns is. The question then becomes how big of a star do they think he is, and that answer will differ with each person asked.

I highly doubt that anyone outside of the WWE would know Roman Reigns if they fell over him in the street. I've said this before that wrestling is a niche sport, it's something you either watch or you don't. Those that watch know who the players are and that's all that counts really.

 

[LibSuperstar]

Within WWE yes. Outside of WWE/wrestling fans, no. He is a top merch seller though. Will he reach Cena's level? Doubt it.

 

[Navi]

After reading some comments on this subject, i feel like we're forgetting What being WWE is think a main event star is suppose to be. For them, A Superstar is somebody that transcend the world of WWE, He's somebody that even peoples that don't watch WWE know who he his. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Rock, Austin, Cena and Undertaker to a extend are guys that if you talk to somebody that never watch wrestling and mention wrestling, they will automatically link it to one of those guys. They also look for them to be able to get success outside WWE, Guys like Cena, Batista, Rock and Lesnar are prime example of guys that are or we're megastars in WWE.

I think we're talking apples and oranges here. There is a huge difference between being a superstar in the WWE and having the cross over appeal to make it outside of it. The Rock, Bastista and Cena are three guys who don't need wrestling anymore as they have already made a name for themselves without having the WWE Superstar moniker attached to them. Austin and Undertaker will being well known are still only known for their time as wrestler's. Hogan was the first biggest name to make himself known, but still if you ask people if they know who Hulk Hogan is, they will say he was a wrestler. Lesnar will forever be associated with MMA not really with the WWE, even though that's where he got his start.

Actually the best thing that could have happened to Batista was what happened to him at the Rumble. He went back to Hollywood not long afterward and has become a bigger star than he was before. Both he and the Rock while they come back every so often, haven't really looked back. They both had to take extended leaves to get their acting careers up and running. I think Cena would have left a long time ago as well but if he had who would have carried the company, there was really no one so he stayed around.

Is roman Reigns on that level, not yet but to be quite honest, nobody on the roster is on that level at the moment not even AJ Styles. But is he a draw. I would say yes he is, especially with the domagraphic that matters the most for WWE and that's families and kids. Right Now the future for WWE is Reigns and Strowman. Their the guys that will lead them to the next era of the company because they are the biggest draw they have and they have a lot of years left in the careers compare to guys like AJ Styles who pretty much said he wants to retires in a couple of years or guys like Joe and Finn that don't have 15 years left in their career.

I agree Reigns isn't on that level and he never will be, he can't act. Doing a couple of word promo's every week isn't going to cut it in Hollywood. If Reigns could talk like the Rock, he wouldn't be in the WWE right now. He would be in Hollywood making movies along side his cousin, but he isn't and there is a reason for that. He has the look but that's about it.

Not every wrestler who comes along will make it outside of the WWE, hell some of them can't make it within the WWE. It takes more than putting on a good match for some, you also have to be able to entertain the crowd. Some do and some don't. We can't look at the Rock and go well if he can do it everyone can. It's been proven that they can't.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Austin and Undertaker will being well known are still only known for their time as wrestler's.

From an interview I've read with Austin, he has said that he has had people come up to him and recognize him as Steve Austin from Broken Skull Challenge or Redneck Island, one or both of his shows, and not as Stone Cold from wrestling.

 

[Garak]

Imagine if you took a significant amount of your limited time, money, and resources into promoting someone to be the face of your brand. Then, a few years after they're starting to really repay that investment back........ they stop wrestling and start shooting movies. Or they stop wrestling for you and start wrestling for the guy who will pay them more.

I think that's a very valid point. Great, if the guy gets over on his own, but that really happens even more rarely than we think. A lot of things were done to get Hogan over. Each and every one of those you mentioned, plus a few other big names, disappeared at some very inopportune times. Now, that's not to say they didn't have a legitimate beef or were being treated perfectly, but from the WWE perspective, no one is bigger than WWE.

I highly doubt Vince is interested in having Roman have a great two year run with all kinds of pops, the fans loving him and cheering him every appearance, no more mixed reactions, and then have him vanish to Hollywood for good.

 

[stingray11214]

It all depends on what you mean. If you mean a star in Pro wre, er, Sports Entertainment as a CHARACTER on TV, sure, he is up there. But, as Joe Anoa'i, the man PLAYING Roman Reigns? Nobody would know him from a cord of wood. He is NOT a star. Sadly, we are no longer in the "kayfabe" era, where the character made the man. Now, WWE treats these people as actors. Therefore, to be a "star" is much harder. Look at the shows outside of wrestling: Thunder in Paradise starred Terry "Hulk Hogan" Bollea (That was how he was billed early on), The Rock is billed as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Even in the "Blade" films, Trips was billed as Paul "Triple H" Levesque. When people use YOU, and not your CHARACTER, and if they do use your character, it is to tie it to YOU, that is when you are heading towards stardom.

But, right now, Roman Reigns THE CHARACTER is a star in the realm of Sports Entertainment. Joe "Roman Reigns" Anoa'i, the Person PLAYING Roman Reigns, is MIA in that department.

 

[Greg4WWE]

It's just a different era now. A lot of the wrestling fans, mostly in late 20s to early 40s, are still very nostalgic towards the old days. The PG era has sucked for the crowd to. Maybe in another 10-20 years when we die off or stop caring, the new crowd would find a guy like Roman to be amazing. Just bad timing for him. A guy like Daniel Bryan was over just because he was great working and we could see the company tried to keep him down. Roman is pushed to the moon.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I'm pretty sure every wrestling fan knows who he is so to that extent he's a star but he's not a household name, Whenever wrestling seems to be in a peak of popularity everyone seemed to know who the top guys like Hogan, Andre, Hotrod and Macho Man were and later the Rock, Austin, Taker during the attitude era, If random non wrestling fans were asked who the top stars today like Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins or Dean Ambrose is I would guess most wouldn't have heard of them.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Their also the fact that it's harder then ever before to break through as a top guy in today's wwe because it became such a huge business that you don't have a demographic That's going the majority like in other era. During the Hogan era, it was mostly families that would watch the show so the characters we're gear toward a younger audience, the attitude era had a mostly young adult fan base so they went with a product that was gear toward that demographic. Today, who is the major demographic for wwe? They're none really, they have so much fans around the world from kids to older folks with young adult mix into it so everybody will like somebody different and nobody will be a true draw like in past era.