Where have you got this from? It isn't specified at the beginning of the thread - in fact it is listed as being a week after round 1 which would have it before round 3. I've stated this before (several times actually) but I believe that rounds 3 and 4 would happen the same night because a card comprising of 2 bouts one week and a card comprising of a solitary match just doesn't strike me as likely. 3 major league bouts seems a far more likely affair.
I may have misread it, but I assumed the match was taking place a week after the bout with Funk. Since all of the bouts in this region are taking place in Chicago, it's hard to imagine having fourteen bouts on a card in one night, which is what's suggested. It's stated that the second, third, and fourth round matches
were all one week after the first round matches. I imagine it's meant that it's a week after the previous match, or each man is wrestling three times in one night.
Still, it means screw all. Race never wrestled in ECW, so any speculation that they may have embraced him is just that: speculation. And this isn't Philadelphia, nor is it the Hammerstein Ballroom. It's Chicago. Cena was booed because he was going against the poster boy for ECW in RVD in 2006, and because he was going against the hometown boy CM Punk in Chicago. When he wrestled Lesnar at Extreme Rules in Chicago, he was cheered.
Why? The guy who dominated the NWA for 5 years and was the biggest influence on the biggest heel of the 21st Century isn't worthy of making the final 8?
Because John Cena has dominated the WWE for 8 years and has repeatedly beaten and made to submit that heel that Harley Race was the biggest influence on. Cena has dominated longer then Race, and has made every major heel in the company tap out. Why would Race be any different?
You don't
need a heel in the finals of the region. You need the better man. That's undoubtably John Cena.
One match against a part time Lesnar (who is now 1 and 2 since his return) isn't that great a basis to suggest he'll go over Race... plus, he had prior experience of Lesnar in his past. Race is a first time affair.
Exactly. And when Cena goes one and done with a major heel, he wins. His experience with Lesnar in the past was 2003, before Cena was in his prime. When Lesnar returned, he was immediately main eventing, and built as an unstoppable monster. This was a first time affair with Cena in his prime, and Cena beat him.
Aw, come on man - he was 43 when he entered the WWF which was a face strong federation going back to it's inception. This ISN'T the WWe region and Race is exactly the type of guy that ECW loved to push.
He may be the type of guy that ECW would love to push, but Cena would be exactly the type of guy that would stop him. Further, as you've pointed out, this is Chicago. It's not Philadelphia or New York or Florida, where most of their major PPV's were held. The region here doesn't matter as much as the match types, which favor Cena.
Harley Race: 8 reigns, 1709 days: average reign 213 days
John Cena: 12 reigns (not including current reign as it would bring his average down), 1163 days: average reign 97 days
Say what you will about me, insult my family but PLEASE never question my maths.
My apologies.
However, I'm still not sure how this is relevant. As I pointed out, Cena had two long, defining reigns early on in his prime. One of his "reigns" marrs the number entirely because he won the Elimination Chamber in 2010 only to lose the title minutes later to a fresh Batista.
See my opening riposte, there is nothing to indicate a week has passed and logic dictates that rounds 3 and 4 would be fought on the same night to bulk out the card. As such, squeezing past Funk while Race had a relative cakewalk would be very significant (especially in protecting Cena's reputation).
Cena's reputation is one that wins
despite the odds being stacked against him. So even if what you say is true, which I don't believe it is, Cena's reputation says that he would win this match, as he's made a career of overcoming the odds.
So the fans will cheer him? I think not! The Second City is still were John had one of his highest profile loses.
It's also where he had
two of his most high profile wins. He made HHH tap out at Wrestlemania 22, and he defeated Brock Lesnar in an Extreme Rules match in 2012. The venue doesn't hurt Cena in any way.
Why not? He's been knocked out, maybe he'd want to do it again
! I'm being flippant but when you do think about it - Cena is the anti-ECW wrestler, if there was anywhere he'd be likely to get screwed (with or without Race's consent) it would be here. Plus, as is often stated, a loss is a loss and Edge's interference wasn't against the rules so Cena lost clean.
I never said Cena didn't lose clean- the rules dictated that what Edge did was legal, and Cena lost clean. I'm saying that I don't see Edge showing up to interfere on Race's behalf. And even if there was interference, it's not as if Cena hasn't won major matches when there's been interference against him- he has.
Further, it's only speculation that someone would interfere against Cena. This isn't an ECW mark city, like New York or Philly. Therefore, it's essentially the ECW region in match types, and that favors Cena.
Again with the 'hometown'? My point was that he has lost a high profile match in this city
.
You were the one who brought up Chicago as a knock against Cena. You can see above that Cena has had two major wins there as well. He retained the WWE Title by submission against HHH there at WM 22, and beat Brock Lesnar at Extreme Rules 2012 there. Two major wins, six years apart.
What has Lesnar done since his return to elicit such love? One win against a part time wrestler, one loss against the exact same guy and a loss to Cena who, by his own admission, underperformed during this period does not make a case to overcome a prime Race.
Because of the way Lesnar was pushed heading into the match. As the unstoppable monster who was the unquestioned favorite against Cena. And what did Lesnar do in his next match? He broke HHH's arm and made him tap out. Lesnar was being labeled as the "new face" of the WWE heading into his match with Cena, and Cena beat him 1-2-3. That's all.
Who's bigger and badder in that list? Big Show? Khali? Race will be remembered long after both those guys are forgotten.
He's made Batista, Randy Orton, JBL, and the Miz quit. Khali's first loss in a standard match in WWE was by submission to Cena. He made Big Show submit. Edge, Chris Jericho, HHH, CM Punk, and HBK have all
tapped out to Cena. Who, in Cena's era, has Cena not made to quit in one way or another? Nobody.
The difference is Race did it at a time when it was storylined impossible to slam Andre. This was never implied about Show.
Sure it was. When Cena did it at Wrestlemania 20, it was revered as "this isn't possible!", or "unbelievable"!
My point is that Cena can match Race in strength, at least.
I'm not a mark for old school wrestlers; I've explained that I feel that the previous round disadvantages Cena, the venue disadvantages Cena, the organisation disadvantages Cena and Race's quality is sufficient that these disadvantages would not be overcome by John.
I've pointed out how the venue doesn't disadvantage Cena due to the fact that he's won there more then he's lost, the organization is irrelevant here, and how two of the three match types favor Cena.
As for the previous round, it's hard to take it into account, because if we're to go by what's been said, this would be the third matchup of the night for each man. Each would be exhausted at this point, but Cena's endurance and ability to endure hellacious punishment actually favors him if we do factor in previous rounds.
What true one and done matches has he had though? WWe has become a running track - there's no one who hasn't been round before. Race, however, was constantly doing one and dones - that was the nature of working the territories.
All of Cena's "first" one on one matches with major names in his prime have seen him come out victorious. HHH, HBK, Edge, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Big Show, and Brock Lesnar have all fallen victim to Cena in their first major matches against a prime Cena. Only Punk and HHH truly "got their wins back", as WWE frequently does.
And in their "higher stakes" match, he beat the Rock. And who did he beat to face the Rock? CM Punk. When the stakes are highest, Cena has generally come out victorious. Why wouldn't he do so against Race?
The Champ is here but he's been beaten to a pulp by Terry Funk. He will save face by giving Race all he can give but, in the end, it will be for naught and the riot will be averted.
1. This isn't Race's hometown, so I don't see how the fans would riot over a Cena win.
2. Race wasn't an ECW wrestler. Why would the fans riot over a Cena win?
3. Look at the Last Man Standing, Ironman and I Quit matches where Cena has been "beaten to a bloody pulp" and still come out victorious. Cena thrives from being beaten down and overcoming the odds.
Race was a great wrestler, but he wasn't John Cena. He would be a huge test for Cena, but he doesn't have the speed and agility
along with the strength of John Cena in order to overcome him.
We'll have to agree to disagree here but I believe that the Triple H who was defeating everyone and anyone from the Rock to Shawn Michaels and Goldberg was prime rather than the Triple H who was losing to the likes of Batista, Orton, Edge and, yes, even a blossoming Cena. It was the difference of Trips in his pomp and Trips giving credence to his would be replacements.
The only man you mentioned on that list that HHH truly had difficulty with was Batista. He defended and took the belt from Orton(No Mercy 2007, Wrestlemania 25 and more), defended and retained the belt against Edge(The Bash 2009),and even defeated Cena once at Night of Champions 2008. His title reign in 2008 was his second longest, so again, Im not sure how that's out of his prime.
And I recall quite a few losses for HHH during the prime you mentioned to all three men. Goldberg beat him on leg with Evolution interfering, HBK beat him in his first
two matches back in 5 years, and the Rock beat him as well.
I'm not arguing that Race wasn't one of the all-time greats. But with his win over the Rock for his 13th title in the main event of Wrestlemania, I'm not sure if there's anyone in their prime who beats Cena.
As for the "beaten down" part, this is the same John Cena who handed Umaga only his 2nd loss in WWE(after handing him his first) in a Last Man Standing match with broken ribs. He then won the tag titles along with HBK against Edge and Orton the
next night with those same injured ribs, scoring the decisive pinfall.
I'm pretty sure Cena can handle Race after handling Funk. Cena moves on to face either Flair or Punk.
