Chris Jericho Is The Reason John Cena Was Pushed?

Wrestlingfan100

Pre-Show Stalwart
I am NOT a cena fan and I am NOT a cena hater, I respect Cena as a person and I think he is amazing performer but a lazy in ring innovator and technician. Now I 've read Jericho's recent book{ 3 times} & he talked about impressed with Cena's abilities and even mentioned Cena had/has this talent of saying a promo backwards which I wanted to see. Jericho talks about how he convinced Vince to go over him at some PPV, I forget which. I remember reading an interview he did last year and he mentioned how it's just the "cool thing to" do like bashing Justin Bieber.

Now since Jericho is like a "god of the IWC" I want to know people's opinions. I want to know your reaction to finding this out.
 
It doesnt really surprise me that Chris would lobby to put another talent over. In his last run with WWE he put countless guys over. Thats one of the main reasons why I love Jericho, he can win 50 in a row and then drop 50 in a row and wouldnt be affected by any of those losses
 
John Cena is a lazy ring innovator and technician? Really?

Really?




Really.?

I bet you are just skipping Cena's matches until the last part when he is about to use the 5 MOD? Just by watching Cena-CM Punk matches you can see some of the new moves of Cena. And besides, most of the wrestlers in the WWE don't innovate their movesets.

As for Jericho, I don't think he should run his mouth if he doesn't have the plan on coming back on WWE.
 
I am NOT a cena fan and I am NOT a cena hater, I respect Cena as a person and I think he is amazing performer but a lazy in ring innovator and technician.

Well that takes care of knowing all we need to know about you right off the bat. Clearly you've established for us that you don't know a damn thing about anything wrestling related. Way to go.

Now I 've read Jericho's recent book{ 3 times} & he talked about impressed with Cena's abilities and even mentioned Cena had/has this talent of saying a promo backwards which I wanted to see. Jericho talks about how he convinced Vince to go over him at some PPV, I forget which. I remember reading an interview he did last year and he mentioned how it's just the "cool thing to" do like bashing Justin Bieber.

Now since Jericho is like a "god of the IWC" I want to know people's opinions. I want to know your reaction to finding this out.

To finding out what? That Jericho saw something in Cena and wanted to put him over? What's the big deal here? Are you implying that you want to see the "smarky" masses flame over Jericho as being responsible for "Cena-mania"? Or are you trying to show them that, hey, Jericho liked, so maybe you should too? There is no news here, nor is there really anything to "react" to. This is likely the shittiest thread I've seen all day, and I can't wait to see your response to this.

Or better yet, let's just close this sucker now.
 
I know it's cool now to love Cena and want to suck him off and all, but goddamn you can't say one negative thing about him anymore without being e-raped to death.

Anyway, yeah it's no shock Jericho really wanted to let a young guy with promise go over him. I wondered what would've happened if Brock stayed around and Cena got pushed a few years later.
 
John Cena is a lazy ring innovator and technician? Really?

Really?




Really.?

I bet you are just skipping Cena's matches until the last part when he is about to use the 5 MOD? Just by watching Cena-CM Punk matches you can see some of the new moves of Cena. And besides, most of the wrestlers in the WWE don't innovate their movesets.

As for Jericho, I don't think he should run his mouth if he doesn't have the plan on coming back on WWE.

Mentioning the Cena-CM Punk matches shows his point. Cena puts on a great match every now and then but on RAW or other PPV's he is very lazy in being innovative. He gets beat down, fights back a bit, beat down again and then goes to the 5 moves of doom
 
I think DirtyJose is an obvious Cena hater and a huge Jericho mark. This news has angered him, it's a double edged sword.

Jericho has a wrestling brain, he saw something in Cena and Cena proved him correct. Cena puts asses on seats.
 
DirtyJosé;3399639 said:
Well that takes care of knowing all we need to know about you right off the bat. Clearly you've established for us that you don't know a damn thing about anything wrestling related. Way to go.

To finding out what? That Jericho saw something in Cena and wanted to put him over? What's the big deal here? Are you implying that you want to see the "smarky" masses flame over Jericho as being responsible for "Cena-mania"? Or are you trying to show them that, hey, Jericho liked, so maybe you should too? There is no news here, nor is there really anything to "react" to. This is likely the shittiest thread I've seen all day, and I can't wait to see your response to this.

Or better yet, let's just close this sucker now.
Just shut up. Whine about something important like world hunger or genocide. It's wrestling fans like you that make the product uncool.

Anyways, it's no surprise that Jericho put over Cena. I remember him putting over guys like Wade Barrett, Miz, and even JTG in his last run... at first I thought the WWE was trying to bury him, but I learned he's been doing stuff like that for years. It's a shame, really, because I'd rather see the old Y2J instead of the jobber he's elected himself to become. He's one of my all time favorites, and I think many fans want to see him tearing the scene up one more time.
 
i love how you fucking wrestlezone sheep are, the moment one or two guys hate cena... everyone starts hating him for no reason, and now its the other way around, one or two ******s love cena all of sudden and make it "uncool" to bash him in any way.. how about everyone likes who the like?

i never liked cena... found his shtick lame and i dont like rap nor do i like the way he dresses, so of course im not gonna sympathize with him, and i never liked his in ring work.. fucking shoot me

if jericho saw something in him.. well... im surprised... there really isnt much difference between the in ring work of cena and the big dogs in wcw he constantly trashed and never put good matches

oh and by the way... i love how ppl do the same with the attitude era... it was the best time in wrestling, deal with it, financially and wrestling wise, you were entertaining by someone like taka, goldust and all the other midcarders to the rock and austin
 
I am NOT a cena fan and I am NOT a cena hater, I respect Cena as a person and I think he is amazing performer but a lazy in ring innovator and technician. Now I 've read Jericho's recent book{ 3 times} & he talked about impressed with Cena's abilities and even mentioned Cena had/has this talent of saying a promo backwards which I wanted to see. Jericho talks about how he convinced Vince to go over him at some PPV, I forget which. I remember reading an interview he did last year and he mentioned how it's just the "cool thing to" do like bashing Justin Bieber.

Now since Jericho is like a "god of the IWC" I want to know people's opinions. I want to know your reaction to finding this out.

The PPV I believe is Vengeance 2002 back in his days of wearing wrestling gear...shortly after he was falling out of favor till he started his Hip Hop gimmick
 
I know it's cool now to love Cena and want to suck him off and all, but goddamn you can't say one negative thing about him anymore without being e-raped to death.

Anyway, yeah it's no shock Jericho really wanted to let a young guy with promise go over him. I wondered what would've happened if Brock stayed around and Cena got pushed a few years later.

They can if what they are saying makes a lick of sense. The problem is they never do. Just the usual ranting and raving about how "He can't wrestle." or "He's stale!" or "I hate his shorts". Come up with something of value to say and you won't get "e-raped".

As for Jericho, he's proven to be a class act and he's always done the right thing as far as the business is concerned. I think it's great that Jericho did this for Cena and in turn Cena has done this for CM Punk. This is the way the business should be.



i love how you fucking wrestlezone sheep are, the moment one or two guys hate cena... everyone starts hating him for no reason, and now its the other way around, one or two ******s love cena all of sudden and make it "uncool" to bash him in any way.. how about everyone likes who the like?

i never liked cena... found his shtick lame and i dont like rap nor do i like the way he dresses, so of course im not gonna sympathize with him, and i never liked his in ring work.. fucking shoot me

if jericho saw something in him.. well... im surprised... there really isnt much difference between the in ring work of cena and the big dogs in wcw he constantly trashed and never put good matches

oh and by the way... i love how ppl do the same with the attitude era... it was the best time in wrestling, deal with it, financially and wrestling wise, you were entertaining by someone like taka, goldust and all the other midcarders to the rock and austin


This post right here proves what I was saying about how stupid Cena's critics sound. This guy is the reason people get "e-raped". Stating opinions as facts and facts as opinions. "Attitude era was the best..."??? Opinion... "Cena is one of the best in-ring performers in the business..." Fact. If the guy who wrote this post doesn't like him, that's fine. He has the right to his opinions, but not his own facts.
 
They can if what they are saying makes a lick of sense. The problem is they never do. Just the usual ranting and raving about how "He can't wrestle." or "He's stale!" or "I hate his shorts". Come up with something of value to say and you won't get "e-raped".


This post right here proves what I was saying about how stupid Cena's critics sound. This guy is the reason people get "e-raped". Stating opinions as facts and facts as opinions. "Attitude era was the best..."??? Opinion... "Cena is one of the best in-ring performers in the business..." Fact. If the guy who wrote this post doesn't like him, that's fine. He has the right to his opinions, but not his own facts.

Yeah, because no one who criticizes Cena has legitimate gripes. Just likes there's no Cena fanboys who give the guy overbearing praise for no reason... It's like this, even if you have a concrete reason to dislike anything that Cena does, even remotely... then there's some forum hipster response for it. You're a troll or a mark or you know nothing of the business. Cena is a massive draw so you must love him, unconditionally. It seems no you can't even post about Cena now with at least declaring your admiration and respect for his tremendous love of the business. Besides, people only bring up the fact/opinion difference when they blatantly disagree. Someone could give a page full of reasons why they personally dislike Cena's ring work...sricly as their opinion, but since Bret Hart said he was great or whatever people aren't allowed to have individual opinions.

This isn't a "why do you dislike" Cena thread so i'm not going to go into that, but there is some massive following as far who cool to hate and whatnot. Not in the same way but the sheeping continues.. like now it's cool to bash Ryder now that he's finally get some limelight, or all the people who turned on Miz and Del Rio after they got success. It's ridiculous. Not that i'm saying all people who defend Cena are trenders, but it's damn hard to tell at this point.
 
Jericho may have had a word in someone's ear backstage, but let's get one thing straight: John Cena is the reason John Cena was pushed. There was a time when everyone loved him. This was long before the time when it was cool to chant 'Cena Sucks' at the top of your voice. But, it was the man's hard work and great work ethic that got him to where he is today. I'm no big Cena fan, but anyone that says 'he can't wrestle', simply doesn't understand what wrestling is. It isn;t about spots and a range of never ending moves. If you want that you can watch Sin Cara (or could) botcgh every move he attempts (frankly, why WWE signed him from all of the amazing Latino stars is beyond me, but that's another point).
Cena no doubt had a change of gimick that allowed him career to flourish, but this is a guy who would have made it anyway, by busting his ass every single night.
 
ike now it's cool to bash Ryder now that he's finally get some limelight, or all the people who turned on Miz and Del Rio after they got success. It's ridiculous. Not that i'm saying all people who defend Cena are trenders, but it's damn hard to tell at this point.

Why would you even care? Personally, I enjoy the wrestlers I enjoy and could care less about what is the trend. I enjoy Cena's matches because they take me back to the days of the bug 80s and 90s main events. If you don't like his matches, then don't watch them!
As for the state of the wrestling fan persona, it is cool to go against the trend. Which is why it has become common place to hate on a wrestler once they get their push. This is the simple reason that has made CM Punk a top star and WWE creative have tapped into this with wonderful results. This is a guy who is popular, but cheered by almost everyone for the simple fact that the kayfabe heads of the company want to keep him down.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrestlingfan100
I am NOT a cena fan and I am NOT a cena hater, I respect Cena as a person and I think he is amazing performer but a lazy in ring innovator and technician.
Well that takes care of knowing all we need to know about you right off the bat. Clearly you've established for us that you don't know a damn thing about anything wrestling related. Way to go.


God your a dumb fuck, when you say you don't hate or a fan of someone it doesn't mean you don't know anything about them it means your attitude towards them is neutral. Cena does very little in the ring, argue all you want but its true. Shore when he goes against a Punk or Jerico, shawn michaels type and has his ass carried he looks good, every now and again he'll do a bit better then usual or even decent. but when he goes from doing jackshit to decent its like he's gone up and become the best fucking wrestler ever.
 
I know it's cool now to love Cena and want to suck him off and all, but goddamn you can't say one negative thing about him anymore without being e-raped to death.

Untrue. You just can't make up things about him and not have any basis for it, like in this case the douche bag OP saying he's a "lazy inring innovator" or whatever when he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Cena turned a few shoulder blocks and a bulldog into something many fans cheer heavily for, seems like innovation to me.

It's ok to not like Cena. It's ok to criticize him where it's deserved. It's just stupid to make up things about him. That's when the e-rape starts.

I think DirtyJose is an obvious Cena hater and a huge Jericho mark. This news has angered him, it's a double edged sword.

Clearly your reading comprehension needs work. I suggest pulling your head out of your ass and paying attention in class more often. Where in anywhere did I imply that I am a Cena hater?

Just shut up. Whine about something important like world hunger or genocide. It's wrestling fans like you that make the product uncool.

Was I whining? No. I just found this thread to be pointless and rather poorly conceived. That it attracts posters like you only goes to prove my point. Please, tell me how I made everything uncool.

Anyways, it's no surprise that Jericho put over Cena. I remember him putting over guys like Wade Barrett, Miz, and even JTG in his last run... at first I thought the WWE was trying to bury him, but I learned he's been doing stuff like that for years. It's a shame, really, because I'd rather see the old Y2J instead of the jobber he's elected himself to become. He's one of my all time favorites, and I think many fans want to see him tearing the scene up one more time.

Jobber? LULZ. Here we go again about someone who doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about going off about things they don't understand using words and terms they really don't know the meaning of. Jobbing is something the Brooklyn Brawler did, something we only see these days in dark matches prior to the show. Chris Jericho has not jobbed in years. Chris Jericho puts guys over, and that my ignorant friend, is not jobbing.

Also, Jericho himself has stated that he doesn't like doing the same old things, or doing the same old character, so kiss your childish dreams of seeing the old "Y2J" goodbye.

i love how you fucking wrestlezone sheep are, the moment one or two guys hate cena... everyone starts hating him for no reason, and now its the other way around, one or two ******s love cena all of sudden and make it "uncool" to bash him in any way.. how about everyone likes who the like?

Wait, which way is it? How are we sheep if it isn't consistent? LULZ, more ignorant ******s using words and terms they don't understand. So, again, which way is it, chump?

It's perfectly fine for people to like or dislike whoever they feel like. It's also fine for them to critique guys for what they feel are their weak points. I'm just against people being ignorant about it, making up reasons and bullshit excuses to back up their shitty reasoning. If you're going to say it, be prepared to be called out on it or pack up your shit and go home now.

i never liked cena... found his shtick lame and i dont like rap nor do i like the way he dresses, so of course im not gonna sympathize with him, and i never liked his in ring work.. fucking shoot me

And that's just, like, your opinion man, and you're certainly entitled to it.

if jericho saw something in him.. well... im surprised... there really isnt much difference between the in ring work of cena and the big dogs in wcw he constantly trashed and never put good matches

Here you kinda lose, though. I'm pretty sure I'm going to take Jericho's word at who has potential over yours. I'm pretty sure Jericho knew/knows more about what he's talking about in the business than you do. And, by the looks of things, he was right.

oh and by the way... i love how ppl do the same with the attitude era... it was the best time in wrestling, deal with it, financially and wrestling wise, you were entertaining by someone like taka, goldust and all the other midcarders to the rock and austin

Due to your inability to use the English language properly, I'm left wondering just what the fuck you are trying to say here. Is it more Attitude Era bullshit? Is it some point about TAKA and Goldust? I don't know. Educate yourself, you ignorant dipshit, and come back once you've passed some Hooked on Phonics classes.

Yeah, because no one who criticizes Cena has legitimate gripes.

Never said that, though I do find that the more passionate haters tend to overcompensate and say silly things like how he's bad for the product.

Just likes there's no Cena fanboys who give the guy overbearing praise for no reason... It's like this, even if you have a concrete reason to dislike anything that Cena does, even remotely... then there's some forum hipster response for it. You're a troll or a mark or you know nothing of the business. Cena is a massive draw so you must love him, unconditionally. It seems no you can't even post about Cena now with at least declaring your admiration and respect for his tremendous love of the business. Besides, people only bring up the fact/opinion difference when they blatantly disagree. Someone could give a page full of reasons why they personally dislike Cena's ring work...sricly as their opinion, but since Bret Hart said he was great or whatever people aren't allowed to have individual opinions.

Spoken with true butt hurt venom. And you are wrong. You don't have to love him, but a certain level of respect is due. Not anyone can be in the spot he's in, and that is fact. Take, for instance, Jericho himself. In his own words, he floundered as a Champion. He couldn't handle the spot for more than a few months. Does that mean Jericho is lesser than Cena? Not at all, but it's a comparison that gives legitimate reasons to respect Cena. Jericho, hero to many, couldn't hang with the pressure of being that top guy, and delivery those goods night in and night out for more than a few months, while Cena has handled being the go-to babyface for the WWE for years. It's ok to not like Cena, but most of the time babies like you tend to overdo it when hating on him and acting like he isn't nearly as capable as he's already demonstrated to us that he is.

This isn't a "why do you dislike" Cena thread so i'm not going to go into that, but there is some massive following as far who cool to hate and whatnot. Not in the same way but the sheeping continues.. like now it's cool to bash Ryder now that he's finally get some limelight, or all the people who turned on Miz and Del Rio after they got success. It's ridiculous. Not that i'm saying all people who defend Cena are trenders, but it's damn hard to tell at this point.

How about you worry about making sense for yourself and letting others do what they do? There will always be bandwagon fans and haters, no matter which sport or form of entertainment you're talking about. Instead, why not focus on making your own coherent and logical posts instead of whining about the way things are? You aren't a victim here, so quit acting like it.

Anyone else?
 
Dirtyjose, HHH is looking for Stephanie's panties -- it seems you have them in a bunch.

Seriously kid, you need to chill out. We're discussing a scripted sports entertainment program. You don't need to write a 10 page bitchfest over a television program.

I know exactly what jobbing is, I didn't mean it literally. Jesus Christ mate! I've read Y2J's books, so I already knew he isn't going to be the same character next time. I was merely pointing out that his original WWE gimmick and persona were great. Nothing more.

Don't write another 10 pages of steaming mad smarky bitching. Grab a beer, flip on some porn, and jerk your frustrations out instead. It saves us all the headache.
 
Dirtyjose, HHH is looking for Stephanie's panties -- it seems you have them in a bunch.

....lulz. That all you got?

Seriously kid, you need to chill out. We're discussing a scripted sports entertainment program. You don't need to write a 10 page bitchfest over a television program.

Perhaps you need to get into some night classes because you certainly can't count.

I know exactly what jobbing is, I didn't mean it literally.

Then use your words correctly instead of saying the wrong shit knowing you're saying the wrong shit. How about you tell us what you really meant?

Jesus Christ mate! I've read Y2J's books, so I already knew he isn't going to be the same character next time. I was merely pointing out that his original WWE gimmick and persona were great. Nothing more.

You were the one to call it a shame. I call Jericho's work at the second half of his WWE run as some of his best ever, in terms of in ring performance, his ability to make most anyone look great, and his excellent characterization skills which allowed him to create a heel persona that heels today are still copying ideas from. Hardly a shame at all. If you want to whine about how you miss the old Jericho, do it somewhere else where you won't be wandering off topic.

Don't write another 10 pages of steaming mad smarky bitching. Grab a beer, flip on some porn, and jerk your frustrations out instead. It saves us all the headache.

Actually I posted this all having woke up from the nap I had after fucking my wonderful girlfriend all across the house, starting in the kitchen.

But I digress. Do you have a point with your response, or is it just more butt hurt venom? You claim I was whining about something, but when called out on it you fail to produce. You made some claims about Jericho, but when called out on it you tucked your tail between your legs and muttered that you were being sarcastic. And, again, this goes back to my criticism of the OP. This is a thread that brings in no news, makes no real point for conversation, and is a waste of forum space. Until the thread is closed I will enjoy picking apart each and every one of you peeps who think you have something relevant to say.

Jericho may have had a word in someone's ear backstage, but let's get one thing straight: John Cena is the reason John Cena was pushed.

While half way in this guy loses some of his grammar skills, this is one of the few non-****** posts in this thread and it makes an excellent point. Guys like Jericho and Angle may have helped to give Cena the kind of break he needed, but Cena is the one who ran with the ball once he got it. Love him or hate him, respect is due to him.
 
DirtyJosé;3400100 said:
....lulz. That all you got?



Perhaps you need to get into some night classes because you certainly can't count.



Then use your words correctly instead of saying the wrong shit knowing you're saying the wrong shit. How about you tell us what you really meant?



You were the one to call it a shame. I call Jericho's work at the second half of his WWE run as some of his best ever, in terms of in ring performance, his ability to make most anyone look great, and his excellent characterization skills which allowed him to create a heel persona that heels today are still copying ideas from. Hardly a shame at all. If you want to whine about how you miss the old Jericho, do it somewhere else where you won't be wandering off topic.



Actually I posted this all having woke up from the nap I had after fucking my wonderful girlfriend all across the house, starting in the kitchen.

But I digress. Do you have a point with your response, or is it just more butt hurt venom? You claim I was whining about something, but when called out on it you fail to produce. You made some claims about Jericho, but when called out on it you tucked your tail between your legs and muttered that you were being sarcastic. And, again, this goes back to my criticism of the OP. This is a thread that brings in no news, makes no real point for conversation, and is a waste of forum space. Until the thread is closed I will enjoy picking apart each and every one of you peeps who think you have something relevant to say.



While half way in this guy loses some of his grammar skills, this is one of the few non-****** posts in this thread and it makes an excellent point. Guys like Jericho and Angle may have helped to give Cena the kind of break he needed, but Cena is the one who ran with the ball once he got it. Love him or hate him, respect is due to him.

I'm a fan of Jericho so I wasn't disrespecting him in anyway. I think Cena's great, a lot better than everyone takes him for but he hasn't really shown me much innovation, he's a pretty good technical wrestler check out his match with Bryan Danielson a few years ago, I just feel like he's repetetive in the ring a lot, I'm sorry if I offended you.
 
Not all, I just wanted opinions, sorry if I offfended you in anyway.
You can have your opinion, you've been here longer. I just wanted to know people's opinions, seemed like it would be interesting topic.

Next time don't open with "I'm not a Cena hater, but...". You can replace "Cena" in that example with anyone else. If the topic you want to hear about is Jericho's early opinion of Cena and the possibility of Jericho being instrumental in Cena getting his push, keep it about that.

I'm a fan of Jericho so I wasn't disrespecting him in anyway. I think Cena's great, a lot better than everyone takes him for but he hasn't really shown me much innovation, he's a pretty good technical wrestler check out his match with Bryan Danielson a few years ago, I just feel like he's repetetive in the ring a lot, I'm sorry if I offended you.

Don't apologize for your opinions, just back them up. Repetitive? Sure, I can see you eye to eye on that. On that same note, however, that dance is what got him to where he's at. As I've stated in other places, Rocky had his sequences, as did Austin and Hart and Hogan before him. Many times the sequence is changed a little, or done as a faux-finish, but still the fact remains that what many call Cena out on as being lazy ring work is in actuality the same things that are part of the WWE/F formula and have been for years.

In the end, I think this whole episode is a testament not only to Jericho's eye for talent, but also to his love of the game. He saw a young Cena and saw that he wanted to help the guy out by making him look like a star and putting him over himself. I think many of the big stars today, either in the WWE or elsewhere, could do with having more of that mentality. Once in a long while you hear of things like top guys refusing to put over younger guys for little to no reason, and THAT'S the kind of stuff that hurts the product.
 
Why would you even care? Personally, I enjoy the wrestlers I enjoy and could care less about what is the trend. I enjoy Cena's matches because they take me back to the days of the bug 80s and 90s main events. If you don't like his matches, then don't watch them!
As for the state of the wrestling fan persona, it is cool to go against the trend. Which is why it has become common place to hate on a wrestler once they get their push. This is the simple reason that has made CM Punk a top star and WWE creative have tapped into this with wonderful results. This is a guy who is popular, but cheered by almost everyone for the simple fact that the kayfabe heads of the company want to keep him down.

It's hard not to care when every thread you go into has some form of it. And yes, trending has always been around on forms and always will be...but currently it's terrible... and a tad bit more than mildly annoying. A lesson in why it's cool to go against the grain isn't necessary. It's just funny to me for hypocrites to to use a certain argument when they deem it convenient.

DirtyJosé;3400047 said:
Spoken with true butt hurt venom. And you are wrong. You don't have to love him, but a certain level of respect is due. Not anyone can be in the spot he's in, and that is fact. Take, for instance, Jericho himself. In his own words, he floundered as a Champion. He couldn't handle the spot for more than a few months. Does that mean Jericho is lesser than Cena? Not at all, but it's a comparison that gives legitimate reasons to respect Cena. Jericho, hero to many, couldn't hang with the pressure of being that top guy, and delivery those goods night in and night out for more than a few months, while Cena has handled being the go-to babyface for the WWE for years. It's ok to not like Cena, but most of the time babies like you tend to overdo it when hating on him and acting like he isn't nearly as capable as he's already demonstrated to us that he is.

...Yeah, i've really hated on Cena because i've been bashing him in this whole thread right? Anyway, yes Jericho is no Cena as far as being a champion is concerned...but that's neither here nor there. And take this post for example. The blatant white-knighting for Cena is still on display. Ok, it's understood at this point Cena has to be respected, is it possible to get past that? Everyone knows his drawing capability and all of the accolades he receives from his peers. Suddenly this has thread has spiraled into another Cena debate. That got old in 2008..seriously, and yes I am fanning the flames...for what ever reason.

How about you worry about making sense for yourself and letting others do what they do? There will always be bandwagon fans and haters, no matter which sport or form of entertainment you're talking about. Instead, why not focus on making your own coherent and logical posts instead of whining about the way things are? You aren't a victim here, so quit acting like it.

How about people stop singing the gospel of Cena every few posts to look cool? No, touche, this is a forum and to expect people to actually have their own full-fledged option is a exercise in futility. But, it becomes increasingly more difficult to ignore those post when they're utilized so often from hypocrites and forum hipsters. Then again, "whiners" will whine as well though. But whatever, I digress
 
...Yeah, i've really hated on Cena because i've been bashing him in this whole thread right? Anyway, yes Jericho is no Cena as far as being a champion is concerned...but that's neither here nor there. And take this post for example. The blatant white-knighting for Cena is still on display. Ok, it's understood at this point Cena has to be respected, is it possible to get past that? Everyone knows his drawing capability and all of the accolades he receives from his peers. Suddenly this has thread has spiraled into another Cena debate. That got old in 2008..seriously, and yes I am fanning the flames...for what ever reason.

This is less about "white knighting" (lulz, for someone so against hipsters and trending, you sure talk like trendy hipster trash) and more about kids like you who hate on popular things just because it's popular. Yes, it's possible to move past respecting Cena into valid criticism about him. But that's the point; you never offer any. So come on, if you've got some valid criticism of Cena, start here. I know I have some myself. Just make sure it's something you can back up without looking like an asshole (which would be something like the idiot who says Cena is ruining the product).

How about people stop singing the gospel of Cena every few posts to look cool? No, touche, this is a forum and to expect people to actually have their own full-fledged option is a exercise in futility. But, it becomes increasingly more difficult to ignore those post when they're utilized so often from hypocrites and forum hipsters. Then again, "whiners" will whine as well though. But whatever, I digress

First of all, I thought the cool thing these days was to hate on Cena. Second of all, you can have your opinions but they can still be wrong, or based on inaccurate information. And they can still be debated. If you can't back up your opinion with well informed debate, they you probably should just quit coming here already.

Don't blame the system. I don't jump on Cena-Haters. I jump on stupid people, and bad posters, and it just so happens that you landed yourself on that list. If anyone sounds like they are whining right now, it's you.
 
DirtyJosé;3400197 said:
First of all, I thought the cool thing these days was to hate on Cena.

To be honest the guy you are replying to as a point. Lately it's becoming uncool to "hate" on Cena, as soon as you say anything against him you are getting picked apart even if it's valid.

Like in many other threads where I said that while Cena is the biggest current draw he could still improve, do better or use the help of another top face like in the days of Austin and The Rock because right now the only draw is Cena and the product is suffering for people who don't like over-exposure and I got ripped apart.

And the TC was right, Cena IS lazy as far as innovation goes, he rely on the same move and I don't blame him for that because I know that Vince love his top face to work like that. Sell all match, make one or two failed comeback and then one that work with your signature and routine to send the crowd home happy.

But I also know what Cena is capable of, I know he can do so much more and he should take no as an answer. Yes you can have your 5 moves, your signature and everything, but you can still do more around those, change the psychology of your match more and do a move or two out of the blue.

On the other hand I also know that it's true that while Cena does have a limited move set, what he does he does it great.

P.S: You see, I did a whole post and I had some point against Cena that were legitimate, but the whole time I was feeling the need to defend myself to not look as a pure hater, that's the proof to me that hating Cena is becoming uncool these days. And no I didn't do it on purpose, but while I was typing the "what he does he does great" line it hit me that I was defending every criticism I was making.
 
John Cena is lazy, because he wants to last. That's the problem. He does not want to injure himself, so he does not do the big moves. Period. That is why I do not like Cena. Even if that's not his intent, sure damn seems like it.

Jericho put Cena over, that's for sure.. But he was well on his way to stardom even then. Remember, this was a guy who went out and jobbed to Kurt Angle with his goofy tights and funny haircut. I watched that very first match while it originally aired, and im sure most have seen it...

So no, Jericho put him over but was not the main reason Cena was pushed.
 
To be honest the guy you are replying to as a point. Lately it's becoming uncool to "hate" on Cena, as soon as you say anything against him you are getting picked apart even if it's valid.

I don't buy it. There's always been as strong of a pro-Cena movement as there's been an anti-Cena movement. Most of the time, however, the threads that pop up all over the place all revolve around "Cena always this", "Cena always that", "I'm tired of Cena", "Why is it always Cena", etc. Hence the age old (and inaccurate) argument of "only kids and girls like Cena", for to admit otherwise would make one a girl or a kid, definitely not cool.

Like in many other threads where I said that while Cena is the biggest current draw he could still improve, do better or use the help of another top face like in the days of Austin and The Rock because right now the only draw is Cena and the product is suffering for people who don't like over-exposure and I got ripped apart.

First of all, I'd jump on that only for the comment of the suffering product. The product is doing fine. They're making money aren't they? The ratings aren't bottoming out (as much as we talk shit, 2's 3's and 4's are just fine for cable television). PPV's take a hit, but that's likely more to do with WWE's pricing scheme and the current economic status. You might think it's boring, and it's certainly in your right to, but that doesn't equate the product suffering.

Secondly, and this is to your defense, in that same conversation I'd mention that Cena does need someone to help share the load, and that in fact they've already foreseen this. Hence Randy Orton's big face run on Friday Night SmackDown.

And the TC was right, Cena IS lazy as far as innovation goes, he rely on the same move and I don't blame him for that because I know that Vince love his top face to work like that. Sell all match, make one or two failed comeback and then one that work with your signature and routine to send the crowd home happy.

But I also know what Cena is capable of, I know he can do so much more and he should take no as an answer. Yes you can have your 5 moves, your signature and everything, but you can still do more around those, change the psychology of your match more and do a move or two out of the blue.

That's just it, though, he does pull things out of the blue. I remember when he started doing drop kicks out of nowhere. He does plenty of counter chains when it comes to finishers. It's not lazy. That is something that you can be called out on for it's not just opinion. It's not just Vince; the formula of a comeback babyface ending is pretty much what wrestling was built on from the get go. I've seen Cena win without the 5 moves, just hitting a finisher from nowhere. I've seen Cena pull off the 5 moves and still not win or get interrupted. The variety is there. You are still entitled to not enjoy it, but to call it lazy shows a small amount of ignorance.

On the other hand I also know that it's true that while Cena does have a limited move set, what he does he does it great.

For the most part, everyone has a limited move set. This isn't "SmackDown vs Raw" where everyone can be loaded up with all these super cool moves. People are limited by size, speed, agility, and power, among other things. It's not Cena; the WWE/F has never been the place for a spotlight on highly technical wrestling. There are other shows and promotions which focus on that kind of stuff, just as there are shows and promotions which feature the high spots and dangerous bumps for those who want that.

P.S: You see, I did a whole post and I had some point against Cena that were legitimate, but the whole time I was feeling the need to defend myself to not look as a pure hater, that's the proof to me that hating Cena is becoming uncool these days. And no I didn't do it on purpose, but while I was typing the "what he does he does great" line it hit me that I was defending every criticism I was making.

You worry too much about looking cool. Also, for a half-Cena Hater or whatever, you did mostly ok. So you had one point that is kinda shot, but you had another point that was more or less valid. Maybe what you were feeling was not a worry of being cool but instead that gut feeling of worrying whether you could back up your arguments or not. You don't have to sugar coat anything, just make well thought out arguments based in logic, not entirely on opinion.

John Cena is lazy, because he wants to last. That's the problem. He does not want to injure himself, so he does not do the big moves. Period. That is why I do not like Cena. Even if that's not his intent, sure damn seems like it.

The big moves? Oh Jesus. Go watch CZW if that's the kind of shit you want. Big high spots all the time are bad because not only do they desensitize the viewer to that kind of action (which can be demonstrated) but they also put the performers at higher risks for permanent injury, long-term injury (see also: Edge's early retirement), and severe brain damage, all of which add to the phenomenon of pro wrestlers dying in droves. It's not his intent; it's the company's intent to tone it down so that they can do little bits of awesome once in a while to a better pop than when that kind of shit went down every week on Raw to no reaction.
 

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