Championship Region, Fifth Round: (4) Bruno Sammartino vs. (7) El Santo

[klunderbunker]

This is a fifth round match in the Championship Region. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey. Assume everyone is starting fresh. However, damage carries over to the next round.

#4. Bruno Sammartino

Vs.

#7. El Santo

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Con T.]

My, how things change. We have gone from El Santo having home field advantage, being booked to go over in his territory, to facing a guy who made a career out of going over in the northeast, in the northeast.

I guess what it all comes down to is, Santo's fucked. If you voted for Santo in the last two rounds because it was in Mexico City, I don't see how you can't do the same thing for Bruno in New Jersey. If you didn't vote for El Santo, you should probably vote for Bruno because he was a massive draw, and a bigger star. This should be Bruno's

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Bruno goes over here easily.

Santo got lucky the last 2 rounds with his matches taking place in Mexico City, this round it goes against him as he's facing the biggest name in the Northeast region that isn't Hogan or Austin. Not only that Bruno is big and powerful and can wear down El Santo before finally slapping on the bearhug to end this match.

El Santo has done very well this tournament as he rightfully should but his run is over. As draws El Santo may have been the bigger draw (don't really know but he was in movies so my guess is yes) but he isn't a bigger draw in the Northeast. Bruno wins.

 

[LSN80]

This match goes to Bruno.

It's not Madison Square Garden, but it's close. And it's as close to home-field advantage as Bruno can get. While Santo went over in the past two rounds due to drawing Mexico City, the same logic applies here for Bruno. A measly 6 hours from his hometown, and an hour from the place where he drew, and won, more then anyone, ever. If you voted for Santo due to hometown advantage in the past two rounds, you have to apply similar logic and vote for Bruno here.

If you throw out the hometown advantage, this match still goes to Bruno. He has a 60lb weight advantage on Santo, and Bruno has seen the American equivalent in both size and style, Antonio Rocca, both as a tag partner and an opponent.

It's good to see both men make it this far, and Santo rightfully won his last two matches. However, when you combine the location with Bruno's size and strength advantage, along with his experience against another lucha wrestler in Rocca, it's simply too much for Santo here.

As Mexico City worked in Santo's favor, wrestling Bruno at MetLife works equally against him. Bruno wins here.

 

[Papa Pillman]

To everyone who voted to put El Santo over in the last round when 98% of any valid reason stated had to do with location, all I say is you now must be consistent or be a hypocrite.

If El Santo advanced because he was facing an outsider in Mexico City, then Sammartino advances because he is facing an outsider in the greater New York area. Rendering arguments for El Santo irrelevant, and all other arguments for Bruno unnecessary.

Could Bruno lose against another huge WWE star who has drawn massive crowds and had memorable moments in NY/NJ(like Hogan/Cena)? Sure, possibly. But that's not the case here. On the strength of what drove El Santo to this point, he should get crushed in this situation.

Vote Bruno by a landslide.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

AHHH Ye mutherfuckin' spanish geek FINALLY!!!


New Jersey and Bruno. Squash, squash, SQUASH!


I am gonna say this now, Bruno is winning the whole shabang, I am lending full support to Bruno, making a mess of El Santo here and then he is gonna move on and romp anyone in his way. I will produce some stats but later. They are not at all needed here. This is as one sided as playing on the see saw with Awesome Kong.


Brunooooo Samarrrrteeeeennnoooooooooo!

 

[Kermit]

Thank god we are finally out of Mexico. Bruno takes this and El Santo ends an amazing run with marquee wins over The Rock and Sting. GG Santo, but your time is up.

 

[HBsam31]

Santo had a great run, but it is over now. Like others have said, if you voted Santo before because it was in Mexico you have to vote Bruno in New Jersey. No way does he not win this one in a huge way. He is just too good, and this is in his backyard. Bruno moves on here for sure.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

It's not a squash match in theory, but Bruno takes this one here.

It's in Bruno's backyard with what could be more than 80,000 people present and they'll all be cheering 'Bruno, Bruno, Bruno'. Bruno feeds off the crowd, he feeds off the momentum from that, and will overwhelm El Santo to take this one.

 

[Bernkastel]

This would hypothetically be the biggest match of the tournament so far, on one hand you've got the biggest Mexican star in history and on the other you've got the biggest pre Hogan American star not named Lou Thesz. Tough call...

My instinct would be to go with Santo in a neutral region simply because of his longevity, but at the same time Sammartino also brought in huge gates thanks to his prime being in New York. Maybe I'm second guessing myself here, but I think I'm going to go with Sammartino. Santo had an amazing run this year; much better than expected, considering the embarrassment that was the Hart/Rikidozan match.

Perhaps next year I'll be better equipped to argue internationally, but this year Sammartino should be pushed forward.

 

[The Gribbler]

In mexico, Santo, in America, Sammartino. Home ground advantage takes it for me.

Sammaratino.

 

[deem]

I really don't think El Santo should have got past Sting - the booking of him to have his moment over The Rock before doing the honourable job and sending the guy with more utility for the final tournament through would make a ton more sense. But hey, I love voting in kayfabe too and El Santo in Mexico was a tough challenge. Plus, it's fresh and different AND I don't adore Sting like others do. So overall I'm happy that an (imo) mistake was made.

This is a fairly routine Sammartino win for me and I think it'll be a squash. of course, the actual match wouldn't be a squash. If they booked El Santo to be here, he'd put on a great show and work a long, tense match against Bruno. Samma IS incredible though, had a huge tenure on top and is completely worthy of his place in the final four for me. I think the absolute fairest final 4 considering it's being held in North America would be Hogan/Sammartino/Cena/Austin - having a chance at 75% of that at this stage is pretty sick.

Sammartino advances for me and I don't think it takes much thought. I'd consider El Santo over someone like HHH a little more, but there isn't a guy in these finals that I could imagine voting over El Santo at this stage.

 

[8thwotwATG]

The "Living Legend" goes over once again. I've had a chance to take a look at Sammartino's career once again since this tourney, and his WWE HOF induction put me in a mind set to do it, and a thought came to mind. Looking back at his first title reign, I drew a comparison with how Bruno was booked during that first run with the WWWF title with the Heavyweight Championship reign of the late, great Joe Louis. Joe Louis' title reign spanned nearly twelve years and some 25 title defenses, usually monthly against what was called "the bum of the month". Sometimes, Louis would have to face off against a strong opponent, ala Billy Conn, who gave him fits before Louis dispatched him in the 12th round. Bruno's first title reign was booked in a somewhat similar fashion in my opinion, that is he would take on some average draw midcard heel every month and send them on their way, but occasionally he would be booked against a more dominant heel, such as a Killer Kowalski, or a Gorilla Monsoon, or a Don Leo Jonathan. In the end though, Bruno would eventually turn them away.
In this match with El Santo, here on US soil, El Santo represents a tough challenge for Bruno. He in no way, shape or from is a "bum of the month" and gives him a whole heap of trouble, but he ultimately goes down. El Santo was one of the greatest mat stars of all time, certainly Mexico's greatest wrestler, but Bruno was one of the most dominant world champions of all time for an extended period of time. Bruno was most popular in the northeast, but he was always booked to go over no matter where he wrestled during this time. El Santo puts Bruno over at around the 40 minute mark of an entertaining matchup.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

There ain't no way Bruno is losing this one

The deciding factor that seemed to be quoted again and again as a reason why El Santo should go over The Rock and Sting was location. So, here we are on Bruno's turf. The tuf of the longest reigning WWE Champion in history. So surely, those people should vote against Santo in this one?

I am no Bruno fan, I don't find him entertaining in the ring. But I appreciate his legacy, as I appreciate what El Santo has achieved. Both absolute icons of the business. But there isnt a chance Bruno is losing int he greater New York area, where he is an hero. With the fans behind him almost unanimously, Sammartino gets the job done.

Winner: Bruno Sammartino

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Believe me, I want Santo squashed here. While homefield advantage should be a contributing factor in a contest, I felt that Santo was given WAY too much edge against Rock and Sting (incidentally the tag team that Mr Borden got noticed in).

Having said that; Santo defeated, in the Rock, the 2012 winner and 2011 semi finalist and , in Sting, a 2012 semi finalist and 2011 finalist. In the storyline of this WZT, the guy is being booked incredibly strong. Also, if we are tempted in giving Bruno a homefield advantage because of his history in the region and the Italian immigrant support then (likewise) we should temper this with the success Latin Americans (like Eddie, Rey and Alberto) have had and the 7 million Latin Americans in the North East then El Santo might not be just as disadvantaged in these areas as first thought.

I'm voting Bruno because, as I've said, I don't even think Santo should be in this match and Sammartino meets many of the same criteria as Rock and Sting. However, for those of you who fought tooth and nail for him in the previous rounds, I hope this provides you with some arguments should you wish the Mexican legend to progress.

 

[Tastycles]

I'm going El Santo, naturally. In all honesty, this would almost certainly have been booked to be a draw if it ever happened, as these big matches often were. My reason for going with El Santo is basically in reflection of the achievements of Mil Mascaras. Mascaras beat Billy Graham at MSG, and had many draws with Harley Race.

A vote for Sammartino is entirely understandable, and like I said, this would probably be a draw, and ultimately I'm going with the one I prefer.

As you vote for Bruno though, remember that because of Santo, we're going to have an interesting final few.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

I'm going El Santo, naturally. In all honesty, this would almost certainly have been booked to be a draw if it ever happened, as these big matches often were. My reason for going with El Santo is basically in reflection of the achievements of Mil Mascaras. Mascaras beat Billy Graham at MSG, and had many draws with Harley Race.

A vote for Sammartino is entirely understandable, and like I said, this would probably be a draw, and ultimately I'm going with the one I prefer.

As you vote for Bruno though, remember that because of Santo, we're going to have an interesting final few.

Wait, so instead of Wrestler A beat Wrester B, and Wrestler B beat Wrestler C so therefore Wrestler A beats Wrestler C you are giving us Wrestler A beat Wrestler B and Wrestler A drew Wrestler C so Wrestler D( who is like wrestler A ) draws with Wrestler E. That makes no sense what so ever. Add to the craziness that you are comparing Graham to Sammartino ( Sammartino in his prime is miles above Graham ) and this fails on so many levels.

 

[Tastycles]

Wait, so instead of Wrestler A beat Wrester B, and Wrestler B beat Wrestler C so therefore Wrestler A beats Wrestler C you are giving us Wrestler A beat Wrestler B and Wrestler A drew Wrestler C so Wrestler D( who is like wrestler A ) draws with Wrestler E. That makes no sense what so ever. Add to the craziness that you are comparing Graham to Sammartino ( Sammartino in his prime is miles above Graham ) and this fails on so many levels.

It requires a basic understanding of how wrestling works. If you don't follow, I can't help you. In short, massive draws from different regions pretty much always drew with each other, and that's what we have here. Mascaras' achievements serve to illustrate this, I could equally have used any big name du jour, I just picked the most similar to Santo.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

It requires a basic understanding of how wrestling works. If you don't follow, I can't help you. In short, massive draws from different regions pretty much always drew with each other, and that's what we have here. Mascaras' achievements serve to illustrate this, I could equally have used any big name du jour, I just picked the most similar to Santo.

You may have picked the most similar to santo, but you still used a version of the dreaded A>B>C.

During Bruno's time others from different areas came to the Northeast( where this match is ) and lost to the Living Legend. Gene Kiniski( a year before he would become NWA champ ), The Tolos Brothers and Blasie, AWA wrestler The Crusher and Giant Baba. Sammartino also went out of the Northeast and won in places like Florida, Central States, Canada, California and Japan. So clearly there could be a winner.

Now, true it has often happened that a big star will come to an organization for one match and that match usually ends in a draw or double something with no winner. That's not what this is. It is a tournament held at random locations. Kayefabe wise they wrestle and the better man wins. That's Sammartino. Booking wise there is only a neutral booker who is going to want a winner as a draw hurts the tournament and everyone hates a draw so the better man wins. That's Sammartino.

Now, lets talk location. I don't like using location as an argument yet the only reason Santo is here is because of the location. He defeated The Rock and Sting in Mexico because it was in Mexico. I did not see you say it should be a draw because when a big star comes to town it is always a draw there. No, there you said Santo would win because of location. Now he is the visitor and you are suggesting that Santo can't lose because of location. That's clever. Using your logic Santo can't lose no matter what, even though history shows us otherwise.

 

[Tastycles]

You may have picked the most similar to santo, but you still used a version of the dreaded A>B>C.

During Bruno's time others from different areas came to the Northeast( where this match is ) and lost to the Living Legend. Gene Kiniski( a year before he would become NWA champ ), The Tolos Brothers and Blasie, AWA wrestler The Crusher and Giant Baba. Sammartino also went out of the Northeast and won in places like Florida, Central States, Canada, California and Japan. So clearly there could be a winner.

Not really in the same league as Santo, with the possible exception of Baba.

Now, true it has often happened that a big star will come to an organization for one match and that match usually ends in a draw or double something with no winner. That's not what this is. It is a tournament held at random locations. Kayefabe wise they wrestle and the better man wins. That's Sammartino. Booking wise there is only a neutral booker who is going to want a winner as a draw hurts the tournament and everyone hates a draw so the better man wins. That's Sammartino.

1) There is always draws in tournaments.
2) As I believe I have said, I believe Santo to be the better wrestler, on balance.
3) I don't really know why you're trying to start an argument when my post couldn't really have been any more of a blessing for a vote for Sammartino being reasonable.

Now, lets talk location. I don't like using location as an argument yet the only reason Santo is here is because of the location. He defeated The Rock and Sting in Mexico because it was in Mexico. I did not see you say it should be a draw because when a big star comes to town it is always a draw there. No, there you said Santo would win because of location. Now he is the visitor and you are suggesting that Santo can't lose because of location. That's clever. Using your logic Santo can't lose no matter what, even though history shows us otherwise.

No, because it's in a different location, so the location affects things differently. Santo was popular because he beat foreign wrestlers in Mexico City. Sammartino beat foreigners at home, but the fact that he drew with Waldo Von Erich, the "German" heel, so often indicates that he did not enjoy this level of jingoisitic support.

 

[CleverName51]

Bruno holds these advantages here:

1) size, Bruno

2) hometown crowd, Bruno

3) overall skills, Bruno

For me, that's enough to put him in a convincing win.

I learned a lot about Santo in this tournament; but his time is up.

Vote Bruno

 

[ServantofTwilight]

No, because it's in a different location, so the location affects things differently. Santo was popular because he beat foreign wrestlers in Mexico City. Sammartino beat foreigners at home, but the fact that he drew with Waldo Von Erich, the "German" heel, so often indicates that he did not enjoy this level of jingoisitic support.

Sammartino went 18-3-5 against Waldo Von Erich. The 5 were TWO DRAWS, two no contests and one double DQ.