Cena Heel Turn

This topic has been played out so much over and over and over and over and over again. It's so worn out now that when/if it does happen nobody will even give a sh*t.

Its not going to happen until Cena's merchandise sales drop, and he stops doing public appearances.

I agree with your last sentence, but if the topic is so "played out", why in the hell did you waste your time to click on the link and type up a response? It's always interesting to post a topic about a Cena heel turn because people's views, opinions, and even situations are always changing.

A Cena heel turn, I believe, is a trump card that WWE will drop only when necessary, like when...
Cena's merchandise sales drop, and he stops doing public appearances..

When Hogan made his heel turn, the time was perfect. The wrestling world was embarking upon NWO, something revolutionary--so they needed someone well known to usher in that revolution; that person was Hulk. With Cena, on the other hand, there's no worthwhile angle to thrust him into (sure, the Punk angle's great, but hardly nWo, or Monday Night Wars). What, Cena becomes heel today so by Wrestlemania his heel turn is worn out? No. Cena's the biggest star in the wrestling world right now; a character change for Cena would require a monumental occassional, like Hollywood Hogan (the greatest heel in the history wrestling, by the way.)

Another point to consider, which also plays into merchandise sells, is Cena's fan base: his target market. As they age, they will grow tired of Cena, and if also that monumental occasion present's itself, only then should Cena become heel. Likewise, Cena should become heel when there comes a hero for a new generation--a Cena replacement, basically.
 
:blush::banghead:From what I've heard vince wants cenas heel turn to be the most spectacular in history!so i honestly dont see it happening any time before wrestlemania if anything it will be reminiscent of SCSA heel turn either while facing the rock or the night after on raw because who would be matter more to the fans then him somehow screwing the rock at wrestlemania or the night after
 
IMO choosing to turn Cena heel will be as epic as the hogan heel turn, especially in the eyes of his fanbase. Granted IWC people will prob see it coming to some degree, but its not meant for them. Cena is the E's and this generations Hogan. Plain and simple. Is character is running stale, and at somepoint they need to re-invent him. With the punk storyline pushing some of Cena's fans away (not all, not even most, just some) is a step in the right direction and especially considering Cena considers his paper championship legit (very unlike his character) will continue this. Do a build up to WM with Rock returning at SS, and hint at turns in coming episodes,ppvs. Then do it when the fued has hit its peak (raw b4 WM, WM , raw after WM) and then it will be a natural but epic turn that will turn the E upside down. If they do it right, of course they will lose some sales from cena babies, but thats why they need another major face to fall back on (returning rock for a little bit) or someone else. Granted, this is just all my opinion
 
please!!! NO MORE TURNING CENA HEEL THREADS!!!! it's annoying, and highly unlikely to happen anytime soon so the iwc needs to give a rest already, if mcjackass wanted cena to turn heel, he would have done it last year with the nexus...... obviously he cares more about money and selling merchandise rather than the over all aspect of it.......... and relativity speaking his heel turn or potential heel turn wouldn't at lease in my opinion wouldn't be nothing compared to hulk's turn,
 
IMO choosing to turn Cena heel will be as epic as the hogan heel turn, especially in the eyes of his fanbase. Granted IWC people will prob see it coming to some degree, but its not meant for them. Cena is the E's and this generations Hogan. Plain and simple. Is character is running stale, and at somepoint they need to re-invent him. With the punk storyline pushing some of Cena's fans away (not all, not even most, just some) is a step in the right direction and especially considering Cena considers his paper championship legit (very unlike his character) will continue this. Do a build up to WM with Rock returning at SS, and hint at turns in coming episodes,ppvs. Then do it when the fued has hit its peak (raw b4 WM, WM , raw after WM) and then it will be a natural but epic turn that will turn the E upside down. If they do it right, of course they will lose some sales from cena babies, but thats why they need another major face to fall back on (returning rock for a little bit) or someone else. Granted, this is just all my opinion
Lets see, Hogan was in a different company with a different fanbase, so no, that's not the same. Hogan was a part of a world changing stable, so not that's not going to happen because the magnitude of the nWo was because it seemed like WWF guys taking over and there isn't a company in the world or 2 guys in the world that could make it feel like that so no that's not the same. Hogan wasn't drawing as well as they'd hoped and was costing them too much so they wanted to change, Cena is still the highest drawing guy in the WWE, so no, that's not the same either. 0-3, you struck out.

You don't reinvent a character by turning it heel. You reinvent it logically. What the fuck sense, business and otherwise does a heel turn do? How about just let him speak his feelings more often? Let him tell you "you boo me because you like me, it's not cool to like me, you want me to be a bad guy so it will be cool for you to like me, but I'm not fake like you, I am who I am". I think it'd be awesome.

"Punk pushing some of Cena's fans away" LOL are you serious? Punk caters straight and directly to the IWC, his promos may as well have been taken off here. there isn't a single kid or Cena fan taken away from Punk. The IWC is just more vocal. Are you nuts? You DO realize Punk doesn't cater to the mainstream at all except as a heel and Cena caters to them as a face and the IWC as a heel. They are each others' foil, that's why it works. Nobody is taking anyone's fans, it's just amplified the noise and tension.

It's unlike his character to consider his paper championship legit? Hmmm, he won the belt, he was screwed out of the title, and Punk left, Cena being the company man took over and seemed to want to face Punk. You dumb?

Why would Rock return at SS? He has a shitty action movie to make. Plus if you over expose Rock, it ruins the novelty of it.

So you say "if done right" well, what is "if done right"? Explain. Because I hate it when people say "if done right" then don't explain what that is, then bitch about what the WWE does. Basically it sounds like "I don't know how to do it but fuckin WWE doesn't either, I know how, they just need to do it right, I don't know exactly how, but that's not how".

Yes, a Cena turn would turn it upsidedown, they wouldn't make as much money. Nobody would be happy except the IWC, and even they would bitch because that's what they do.

You're backup plan is The Rock? You realize this is a one time thing right?

I'm glad you added "this is just my opinion" some people suggest ridiculous things and think it should actually be done.

Before anyone else suggests a heel turn, ask yourself these questions
1) can anyone else actually carry the company? Not likely
2) would WWE make more money with him as a heel? Definately not
3) would 75% of the audience even like this? Probably not
4) would sponsors like this? No
5) are there enough babyfaces to go around as it is? No
6) Would this even please the IWC? Probably not because it wouldn't be done "the right way"

So yea, why?
 
Lets see, Hogan was in a different company with a different fanbase, so no, that's not the same.

I didn't say it was the same, I said it would be just as epic. And i was referring to Cena's primary fanbase of kids and women.
You don't reinvent a character by turning it heel. You reinvent it logically. What the fuck sense, business and otherwise does a heel turn do? How about just let him speak his feelings more often? Let him tell you "you boo me because you like me, it's not cool to like me, you want me to be a bad guy so it will be cool for you to like me, but I'm not fake like you, I am who I am". I think it'd be awesome.

Why can't you re-invent a character with a heel turn? Many wrestlers have done it before in the past (Austin, Rock, Jericho... in fact Jericho even says he wont come back unless he can re-invent or change his character again because he does not want to be the same character twice...keep things interesting) I believe hogan's character changed significantly with his heel turn
"Punk pushing some of Cena's fans away" LOL are you serious? Punk caters straight and directly to the IWC, his promos may as well have been taken off here. there isn't a single kid or Cena fan taken away from Punk. The IWC is just more vocal. Are you nuts? You DO realize Punk doesn't cater to the mainstream at all except as a heel and Cena caters to them as a face and the IWC as a heel. They are each others' foil, that's why it works. Nobody is taking anyone's fans, it's just amplified the noise and tension.
That's why I said, and stressed the word some. I even said not most of Cena's fans. Why? Because he is showing the world, even the casual fan what Cena has become (the yankees). He is no longer the underdog that everyone cheered for, he has become what cena originally despised. Punk is becoming the "voice of the voiceless". Granted he caters more to male adults and IWC fans, but I think some of the younger Cena fans or even some of the adult cena fans might be swayed by this. Now no need to get all offensive on me again bro, this is just an opinion ;)

It's unlike his character to consider his paper championship legit? Hmmm, he won the belt, he was screwed out of the title, and Punk left, Cena being the company man took over and seemed to want to face Punk. You dumb?

Cena was not screwed out of the title, he lost cleanly at MITB. The real champ left, and he became a paper champion until punk returned. And calling me dumb, come on man, what are we 13? Why insults? I'm voicing an opinion.
Why would Rock return at SS? He has a shitty action movie to make. Plus if you over expose Rock, it ruins the novelty of it.

This is partly my fault. By SS, I meant Survivor Series (when Rock said he is returning) not summerslam. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, a Cena turn would turn it upsidedown, they wouldn't make as much money. Nobody would be happy except the IWC, and even they would bitch because that's what they do.

They would still make money, as they did during all major face to heel turns (austin, rock). It will dip for a little bit, but thats expected.

You're backup plan is The Rock? You realize this is a one time thing right?

He could be one, not saying he is the only choice. And just like everything else in the E, his coming back as a one time thing is not for sure. Just like punk coming back recently, it was pretty much almost a given he was done for a while according to internet rumors. But then again, thats why they are rumors. Unless you work for creative (and even then things are never set in stone and can change at last minute) you do not know what is going to happen with the rock.
I'm glad you added "this is just my opinion" some people suggest ridiculous things and think it should actually be done.

There is a reason I do this, because people in the IWC get all hot and heavy when you make an opinion and insult you in return. Really? Really? Its just an opinion people.

Before anyone else suggests a heel turn, ask yourself these questions
1) can anyone else actually carry the company? Not likely
2) would WWE make more money with him as a heel? Definately not
3) would 75% of the audience even like this? Probably not
4) would sponsors like this? No
5) are there enough babyfaces to go around as it is? No
6) Would this even please the IWC? Probably not because it wouldn't be done "the right way"

So yea, why?

1. ) If cena were to turn, it would be for a semi short run (prob like 6 months) so i think a short rock return or maybe punk, miz face turn, jericho coming back could fill that spot
2.) Not initially no due to the shock, but there is no certain that it could not turn profitable
3.) Possibly. It will never 100% go over, but if you have a big enough face to fill his shoes, then a majority will be happy. Look at orton now, he got huge heat as a heel, hes now getting huge pops and the little ones like him.
4.) Has a heel been a spokesperson before? Yes (rock, austin, Miz) Could someone else fill his spot as the primary? Yes- Miz
5.) Right now, no. But Miz is an eventual face turn, punk, and a return of rock and jericho would help
6.) Nothing pleases the IWC. But if done the right way "Yes"
 
@TWJC: The Beginning

Few things here, first:

Kids don't love a bad guy, the IWC does.
As a father of 2 kids that are in the "Cena demographic" and also the stay at home dad that takes them to school every morning, last school year I didn't see a single John Cena shirt on any of the other kids when I dropped mine off. The popular wrestlers, at least around here (yeah, I'm not about to say this is how it is everywhere, I'm not stupid), are The Miz, Undertaker, Hitman, Stone Cold and most recently my kids new favorite wrestler is R-Truth. Yeah that's right, the guy that attacks "Little Jimmy". They absolutely love R-Truth because he gets got by lil Jimmy. My 8 year old daughter has a crush on Alberto Del Rio, and my son is begging me to buy him a "Hello, I'm AWESOME!" shirt for school next year.

Point being the kids have just as diverse a taste in wrestlers as we do. The difference is that they're willing to play ball at live events and have fun cheering the good guy and watching the older crowd play off them. They start the "Let's go Cena" chants not because they wants Cena to win, but they want to see if they can make more noise than the older group which will inevitably call back "Cena sucks!" So it becomes a game to the kids to see who can be louder and actually has very little to do with Cena himself.

The kids WILL always cheer the good guy, but when you ask them who their favorite wrestler is, it's very likely to be the top heel. That said, a lot of kids I've talked with during playdates and such (yeah when you're a dad playdates are very different than the arts and crafts crap mommies do on their playdates) find CM Punk to be boring.

The content of what CM Punk talks about is over their heads, but for a guy like R-Truth, with whom the kids can identify they find him to be very entertaining even if they are split on whether or not they like him. It's kinda like when I was a kid and hated Bobby The Brain Heenan passionately, when I grew up I realized he was the best thing WWE has ever had. Not comparing R-Truth to Heenan in terms of quality only in what role they're filling. R-Truth is a guy the kids love to hate.

Now, so what right? What does any of this have to do with whether or not John Cena should or should not turn heel? The kids do not really get the double entendre's in John Cena's raps either. So turning him heel and expecting him to go back to just being the Dr. of Thuganomics would not work.

What works about John Cena with the kids is that he actually includes them in his promos. He makes them feel like they're a valuable part of the audience, and that's exactly what R-Truth does as well and that's why they are so over with the younger audience as either a face or as a heel. Cena's heel turn could be great, but he has to be sure to include the kids in his promos, like R-Truth does.

Mike Mizanin is a truly engaging and charismatic person children find to be hilarious. From my perspective, I think it's too soon to push him to fill Cena's role, but I think The Miz is the perfect person to fill that role given more time for his character (not Mike the person, but The Miz character) to mature.

I've suggested in the past that The Miz could be turned into the top face easily. If he were put in a relationship with Maryse, and do a Randy Savage-esque face turn, where Maryse turns face, and has a clean breakup with The Miz because she just doesn't agree with the way he conducts himself in the ring, then turn Morrison heel and have the two get back together as a tag team again, only to have Morrison turn on The Miz at their first PPV and beat the holy hell out of The Miz, enter Maryse with a weapon such as a tazer to kick his ass and run him off, Miz & Maryse reunite and now Miz is everybodies new favorite wrestler. At which point he could easily fill the hole left by Cena turning heel.

Now there's certainly a few tangles in that, but nothing that can't be worked out and nothing that any other storyline doesn't also have to deal with. This would also have to be something that happens over the course of at least a full year, having one thing happen, and solidify for 3 months or so before the next step takes place. In the end, The Miz is every bit as entertaining as Cena is on TV interviews and other spots outside of WWE TV, and he's doing that stuff now as a heel, so Cena certainly could continue to do the same as well. I'm not even saying that's what should be done but that is, I believe, a good example of what would work.

What this would do is open up a whole new line of stories & feuds for Cena to start working on the next phase of his career, putting over the younger guys. Cena is in his mid-30's now, perhaps it's a LITTLE soon for him to be doing that but there's no reason at all that he can't be pushed back into the top dog status again later with another big run. Right now it wouldn't hurt anyone, and it would help the company as a whole if he were to turn heel and push a new generation of young faces into the spotlight.

Also, you talk about merchandising. Cena would still sell a ton as top heel. Not as much obviously but when you fill the void he left with a new top face, his merchandising sales would skyrocket, and in the end, it's not going to be a huge difference. Cena's sales won't drop THAT much, and if you get someone with mass appeal like The Miz, it's very likely he could push merchandising sales even higher, not because he's a more popular champion than Cena but because the combo of Cena has top heel and Miz as top face is more marketable than Cena as top face and Miz as upper mid-card.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not in a major disagreement with what you're arguing either. You're very much right in a lot of what you're saying when you're talking about why it shouldn't be done. The only part I'm really arguing against is that it COULDN'T be done. It could be done, and it could be better than what it is now simply because what we have now isn't that stellar.

Should it be done? That's a much tougher question, because like you say everyone has their own, frequently vague ideas of what it means to have it "done right." I have my own ideas of how it could be done right, and sure you COULD rip it to shreds, critics can do that about anything no matter how good the idea is. The only real test is how successful it is once received by the fans when it actually is put into play.

Right now the fans are split on John Cena, which is exactly what you want if you're going to do a turn, because the fanbase doesn't change in terms of numbers, it just flipflops who the demographic is.

So while I'd tend to think, yeah it should be done, the real test is on the writing team to create a good story-arch for Cena to use in a guideline for his promos, and for that to go well it has to be something very natural and easy for Cena to identify with so that he can do a believable job every step of the way. That is what is needed for it to be "done right."

I myself have been wondering whether or not Cena is another Bret Hart or Bill Goldberg, in that they both got pissed off about the direction their character went in terms of being a role model to the kids, and if that has something to do with Cena not being a heel already.

Bottom line, without a face to be the sterling example for the kids, like I think the Miz could be in a year or so, there's no one, and I doubt that's going to be acceptable for the WWE. Cena could be the children's anti-hero, but that's what R-Truth is right now so there's no point in that. So if he's going to turn heel, he pretty would have to go back to Dr. of Thuganomics and grow his old fanbase, which he could do easily enough, but not without a guy like The Miz to fill the void he leaves.
 
K, so I had to posts responded to me, I'll answer them both with simply this.

Vince won't do it. Cena makes too much money. So, instead of reinventing him as a heel, why not add to his current character? Let him speak his mind more?

You don't want to change him too much before Rock vs Cena because you want it to be the two Iconic characters these guys are known for. Changing Cena would be like advertising for a Batman movie and getting a Justice League movie. Sure it still has Batman but it's....yea it's not really the same and kinda awkward.

He won't turn heel because there isn't someone else to take his place. You act like you can just plug in a new face. What the hell do you think they've been doing? They're trying. Orton gets close. Miz I think would actually work, he seems to love to make appearances and shit.

I don't know where you live RicoLen, but I live in the heart of America, Missouri. I used to manage a place at the mall, I probably talked to a thousand people a day (free sample shit). I saw waaaaay more Cena shirts of any modern wrestler, mostly on kids and the occasional fat teenage girl. These people aren't just in the mall from Springfield, MO. Springfield is along the old route 66, I saw people from every state and I'd guess around a dozen different countries.

You said "the fans are split, which is what you want if you're doing a turn, but that philosophy only works with a uniform audience. If you turn Cena heel, guess what happens, 80% of the audience boos and 20% cheers, it's the exact opposite as now. So why bother?

I've been to live events and kids are very smart. I RESPECTED, legitimately respected the kids who stated the 3 loud "lets go Cena chants" at Money in the Bank. I would have been scared to death with that rabid of a fanbase. You can't tell me that's all because it's a game to them and that they don't just love the character. The most recent live event I've been to was in March. A house show, it was insane the pop his entrance got. I was on the floor near the aisle way, when he came down for his entrance, the aisle was flooded with kids trying to get closer. I don't think that's a game. Maybe to some it is, but you can't deny the magnetism he has with his fans. It's hard to replace. Not only that, but I find his current character more interesting.

I like to think outside the box when looknig at Cena. It's funny that you called him a potential anti hero. If "anti heroes" are what's cool, the cool heroes to like, then wouldn't Cena be an Anti-hero the anti-hero generation? Look at the movies we have, Captain Jack Sparrow, anti hero, Heath Ledger's joker was everyone's favorite character, in a way, sort of an anti-hero. It's all over. Just look at the shitty USA shows, everyone there does bad things but with a good heart and good intentions. This is the anti-hero generation, Cena is a hero who is an old school hero.

I definately believe they think Punk's boring. In fact, my girlfriend who isn't a smark at all finds him boring. She says he's just a bitchy indy rock kid you see outside hot topic. He annoys her, she says he's a whiner and it reminds her of junior high. People on here are dellusional with their own fanhood but I really only hear smarky type of chants for him and a smarky type of reaction. He's basically very over as a face with about 20% of the audience. He's an over heel with the rest. Cena is his opposite, which is why I wouldn't change Cena yet because we're into a new realm of guys who are foils for each other. If you just let Cena be Cena and talk about what's on his mind more, it could lead to some really amazing stuff.

as for airforce1. you can't compare "Cena turning heel and still being with the sponsors" to austin and rock. The lines between good and bad was so thin with them. Plus, you had TWO generational superstars at once. If Rock turns sponsors off, up the babyface....ness of austin, if Austin is putting off sponsors, do it with Rock. Miz is VERY close and I would be okay with a Cena heel turn after Mania and after Miz really takes off.

One way I think a Cena heel turn would work is if Miz gets as popular as Cena and legitimately takes his fans. Cena turns heel saying the fans turned on him. It was kinda Hogan's character's reasoning. then again, he babbled about all sorts of shit.

airforce1 how the hell do you NOT think he was screwed? He had Punk in the middle of the ring in the STFU. His FINISH after Punk had kicked out of 2 AAs. Vince comes down, Cena has to release the hold, already that's advantage Punk. Then Cena clobbers Johnny Ace, looks at Vince, says some shit, then rolls it, somewhat distracted by Vince, Punk has come to and gives Cena the GTS. Just because Vince didn't hit Cena doesn't mean it was a clean victory. He had to let go of a potentially match winning hold, then gets distracted and walks into Punk's finish. Not at all clean.

As for "reinventing to be fresh" turning him heel is the easy way to "reinvent him", however, his character works, if you totally change it, it may not work. So why not reinvent him within the rules of this already established, iconic character?

Like I said a bunch of times, let Cena speak out. Let him call out the people who boo him for booing him because it's the cool thing to do.
 
How many threads are going to be made about Cena turning heel. It's not going to happen. It doesn't need to happen. Nobody would give a fuck if it did happen. It's not going to happen because Vince doesn't care about what people want he cares about money and Cena makes him loads. It doesn't need to happen because having Cena turning heel isn't the only way that we can start to like him, he could easily change his gimmick yet still being a face so we get something different from Cena but Vince still gets his money. Nobody would give a fuck if it happens simply because nobody gives a fuck about Cena.
 
This has been coming for a few months now. The fans have chosen CM Punk as their new leader, it's time for Cena to pass on that torch. I think Cena could make an excellent heel. He would have to drop his whole gimmick coming into the ring, maybe a music change too.
 
First off, let me re-iterate I'm very much in agreement with you on most of this. Some of what I'm doing right now is playing devil's advocate, not because I disagree with you, but because I know others have made the arguments I'm making with you, against me. But there is some disagreement on the finer points too.

I don't know where you live RicoLen, but I live in the heart of America, Missouri. I used to manage a place at the mall, I probably talked to a thousand people a day (free sample shit). I saw waaaaay more Cena shirts of any modern wrestler, mostly on kids and the occasional fat teenage girl. These people aren't just in the mall from Springfield, MO. Springfield is along the old route 66, I saw people from every state and I'd guess around a dozen different countries.

I live in the central valley of California, I don't recommend it either, except as a punishment. :p

Mostly I was surprised when I spent the entire school year last year looking for one of those annoying orange t-shirts and never saw one, or a red or a purple one. Now yeah there's other t-shirts I may have and probably missed, and I only looked while I was in the dropoff line in my car in the mornings, so that's not exactly a thorough study. heheh Even so, I was really surprised that I never saw one shirt.

I don't doubt what you say one bit, but even so...

You said "the fans are split, which is what you want if you're doing a turn, but that philosophy only works with a uniform audience. If you turn Cena heel, guess what happens, 80% of the audience boos and 20% cheers, it's the exact opposite as now. So why bother?

Because for 1, it's not all about Cena. It's about what's best for the business, and letting the face of the company get stale is a bad idea. He's not stale yet. I think my argument is more about needing to turn Cena SOON, not now though. They need to groom a replacement first, and it appears The Miz is getting that treatment, but he's not there yet.

Why bother? Because his time has nearly come to start putting over younger talent, even Hogan did that with Warrior before he was truly out of his prime. Austin put Rock over before he was really out of his prime. Cena is at THAT point now, in 2 or 3 more years he's going to be passed his prime and on the slope down. It may be that his time is now, but his time is almost up too. It is time to start looking towards how to do it, and the heel turn prolongs his prominence because instead of competing at the same level he can start cheating and getting help from henchmen, etc. I think that heel turn needs to come as his day to day performance starts slipping but before the audience starts noticing. That day COULD be yesterday, but in all likelihood isn't for year or 2 more. In the meantime it's of vital importance that they get someone groomed to fill his void. (that's what she said)

I've been to live events and kids are very smart. I RESPECTED, legitimately respected the kids who stated the 3 loud "lets go Cena chants" at Money in the Bank. I would have been scared to death with that rabid of a fanbase. You can't tell me that's all because it's a game to them and that they don't just love the character. The most recent live event I've been to was in March. A house show, it was insane the pop his entrance got. I was on the floor near the aisle way, when he came down for his entrance, the aisle was flooded with kids trying to get closer. I don't think that's a game. Maybe to some it is, but you can't deny the magnetism he has with his fans. It's hard to replace. Not only that, but I find his current character more interesting.

You know what? I've been that kid. My philosophy was (kind of stupid but none-the-less true) that "My dad's right here next to me, what are these guys (the older teens) going to do? Dad will just beat the snot out of them." So I screamed my head off for Honky Tonk Man to step on Jake's Snake.

Now, I was just a stupid kid, but there's no shortage of stupid kids like that at arenas today either. And yeah I'm sure there's even more actual John Cena fans that there are game players cheering him on, but so what? That's still a fairly decent percentage cheering for Cena.

There's another fairly decent percentage of sheep fans that are cheering for Cena simply because he's the good guy and that's what you're supposed to do; cheer for the good guy. I knew more fans like that growing up than I cared to claim as friends. God they annoyed me. "Hulkamania Rules Brother!" "I wanna get my face painted like the Ultimate Warrior" OMG I hated those kids.

Funny thing is, I'm a huge Hogan mark now as an adult even though he drove me nuts as a kid. ... Course I also used to grudgingly admit he was the best ever then, and now I have little respect for his professionalism. Doesn't matter I guess, he's still one lovable goof. Anyways, point being it's no different now either. Cena has a fair amount of fans only because he's the top face in the company. And if you put those two groups together I'd be willing to bet it makes up as much as 40% of his fanbase.

I like to think outside the box when looknig at Cena. It's funny that you called him a potential anti hero. If "anti heroes" are what's cool, the cool heroes to like, then wouldn't Cena be an Anti-hero the anti-hero generation? Look at the movies we have, Captain Jack Sparrow, anti hero, Heath Ledger's joker was everyone's favorite character, in a way, sort of an anti-hero. It's all over. Just look at the shitty USA shows, everyone there does bad things but with a good heart and good intentions. This is the anti-hero generation, Cena is a hero who is an old school hero.

I think right now there is only 1 real anti-hero in the company for the kids, and that's R-Truth.

As for the anti-hero for the anti-hero generation, you're talking to one of the first of anti-hero generation, and I f**king love Cena because everything he says I know is going to piss off the IWC. I think his in-ring routine is boring, I find his gimmick bland, but he's got personality and he's got charisma, and he knows how to piss off the older crowd, but when he wants to he can wrestle as nearly well as Kurt Angle, and I at least have the balls to admit that I love it, even as I'm sitting there watching him and going "Oh you're so full of s**t!"

I don't personally have a problem with the guy, I like what he has to say for the sake of my kids, I love what he does with his charities and as a spokesperson. The man is a saint as far as I'm concerned. Even more so when he pisses off the generation I find myself constantly at odds with, the attitude era fanboys.

Point being I think the anti-hero generation as a whole isn't mature enough to admit they like Cena in the role you're speaking of, yet.

I definately believe they think Punk's boring. In fact, my girlfriend who isn't a smark at all finds him boring. She says he's just a bitchy indy rock kid you see outside hot topic. He annoys her, she says he's a whiner and it reminds her of junior high. People on here are dellusional with their own fanhood but I really only hear smarky type of chants for him and a smarky type of reaction. He's basically very over as a face with about 20% of the audience. He's an over heel with the rest.

I think it's a lot more than 20%. Maybe, I really couldn't say for sure, it's been years since I've been to a wrestling show, and right now with the economy the way it is I'm afraid it might be a long time yet before I get to take my kids, and they come through Fresno all the time, in fact the Raw Brand will be here this weekend. From what I see on TV though it looks more like 35-40% to me.

Cena is his opposite, which is why I wouldn't change Cena yet because we're into a new realm of guys who are foils for each other. If you just let Cena be Cena and talk about what's on his mind more, it could lead to some really amazing stuff.

I think that will work at least until Wrestlemania for sure, and I look forward to it too. Beyond that it kind of depends on The Rock and whatever else we might see happen. It won't last for too long, and when it runs it's course I think the WWE had better have a replacement for the face of the company groomed and ready to go for Cena's heel turn.
 
I think a cena heel turn would be great but like someone said not till after wrestlemania sounds stupid but i would have him lse to the rock then get so frustrated that destroys the rock and then the next night on raw have him come out and say somink like u lot can kiss my ass you booed me for the last year and m fed up of pleaseing you lot when u dont have respect for me then have him beat up the baby faces like evan bourne,rey and santino then have the miz make the save for one of them and turn him face as i think he could be as big as cena is as a face what u all think ?
 
When will posters on internet wrestling forums gets this through their thick skull?? Turning John Cena heel would be a detrimental blow towards merchandise sales and all storylines. There is NO ONE on the roster right now who leads the charge of the WWE entertainment machine like John Cena. If he turned heel, he would no longer be the recognized face that goes along with the product. Therefore, brand marketing would basically die.

Look, we all love change. We ALL loved Cena's thuganomics character from back in the day. But that guy is never coming back. The WWE doesn't make a habit of bringing back a successful gimmick from the past anyone. Their wrestlers understand that change is a big part of professional wrestling. They all need to modernize with the times and not move backwards. So you could count out the thug character from ever coming back.

I'm as sick and tired of Cena's babyface gimmick as the next guy but I know that without it, the WWE couldn't be as successful as it is today. There would be no one on the roster who could break into the mainstream, no one who could fuel interest in main event feuds like Cena does, and no one who could fill his shoes as the face of the WWE. Do you guys really think CM Punk's current gimmick would have been as successful as it was without someone like Cena to be the yin to his yang? I don't think so.

Therefore, put your personal, biased, selfish, half-witted feelings to the side and start thinking like someone who wants the WWE to flourish as a company. Understand that there is a bigger picture beyond your preference as to whether Cena should turn heel.
 
What knowing person actually cares about his alignment? I did say knowing person, right? Just because he's a babyface, doesn't mean he can't garner heat from the crowd. I mean, he didn't have to be a heel to be booed out of Chicago or ONS '06. He's polarizing enough. He doesn't need a heel turn because to many, he already is one.
 
Cena does not need to turn heel because he is the biggest merch seller in this company currently and if he turns heel, there won't be a top face to counteract Cena because there isn't a face on Cena's level currently. Also some fans do not like him and this dislike has been used in the past and will be continued to be used in the future to propel many a storyline. A full heel turn wouldn't do him or the WWE any favors at least until they find a face who is as over as him.

But that's not the reason why I posted here because those same points have been repeated by many a poster here. I just wanted to respond to something interesting and not go out of topic at the same time.


I definately believe they think Punk's boring. In fact, my girlfriend who isn't a smark at all finds him boring. She says he's just a bitchy indy rock kid you see outside hot topic. He annoys her, she says he's a whiner and it reminds her of junior high. People on here are dellusional with their own fanhood but I really only hear smarky type of chants for him and a smarky type of reaction. He's basically very over as a face with about 20% of the audience. He's an over heel with the rest. Cena is his opposite, which is why I wouldn't change Cena yet because we're into a new realm of guys who are foils for each other. If you just let Cena be Cena and talk about what's on his mind more, it could lead to some really amazing stuff.

Maybe she didn't watch MITB or else she would not liken Punk to a whiner. See before MITB you could say that Punk was whining but after MITB he proved that he has what it takes to hang around with the guy that most people think is the best wrestler in the world. That way he proved in a way that what he was saying is true: that he is the best in the world and deserves to be treated better.

I am not saying that the mainstream audience views Punk in the same way as the IWC does. The IWC likes to fascinate about him as some sort of antihero but I think the marks think of him as a very strong heel after what he did at MITB. So if I were a mark I would be legitimately worried if Cena would win against Punk, perhaps more worried than I have ever been before. Punk may like to talk big but he can also back it up. A whiner cannot back up what he is saying, unlike Punk who can back it up to an extent if not completely. He is Cena's equal and that is something he proved by beating Cena cleanly.( I'm coming to that.)

airforce1 how the hell do you NOT think he was screwed? He had Punk in the middle of the ring in the STFU. His FINISH after Punk had kicked out of 2 AAs. Vince comes down, Cena has to release the hold, already that's advantage Punk. Then Cena clobbers Johnny Ace, looks at Vince, says some shit, then rolls it, somewhat distracted by Vince, Punk has come to and gives Cena the GTS. Just because Vince didn't hit Cena doesn't mean it was a clean victory. He had to let go of a potentially match winning hold, then gets distracted and walks into Punk's finish. Not at all clean.

Punk faced the same distraction moments before Cena did. At that point Punk had Cena down with the GTS and Cena had rolled out of the ring. Punk picked up Cena and rolled him into the ring and McMahon and Lauranitis appeared at that point. Punk was distracted and stared at both men for a while anticipating that they would do something out of the rule book. Then when Punk went to pin Cena, Cena locked in the STF. The only reason Cena was able to do so was because of the distraction. Who knows, if that would not have happened Punk my have pinned Cena there and then.

So both guys took advantage of a distraction and Punk came out on top. It was same for both guys and therefore the finish was clean.
 
When will posters on internet wrestling forums gets this through their thick skull?? Turning John Cena heel would be a detrimental blow towards merchandise sales and all storylines. There is NO ONE on the roster right now who leads the charge of the WWE entertainment machine like John Cena. If he turned heel, he would no longer be the recognized face that goes along with the product. Therefore, brand marketing would basically die.

The discussion as a whole is not about turning him heel NOW, it's about setting him up for a heel turn in the near future. You've completely missed the point of the discussion.

Therefore, put your personal, biased, selfish, half-witted feelings to the side and start thinking like someone who wants the WWE to flourish as a company. Understand that there is a bigger picture beyond your preference as to whether Cena should turn heel.

Good advice. Follow through.

Do you REALLY believe that the product we have with Cena being face right now couldn't be improved with someone that's just as charismatic being pushed into the new face of the company after all these years of having Cena as face, and moving Cena to top heel? Fact is, there's talent enough now to have more than 1 top face or heel, like when we had Rock & Austin or Hogan & Savage.

We're trying to have an intelligent open-minded conversation. Please don't bash everyone's ideas simply because they're different and you're tired of discussing the topic.

BTW I didn't like Cena's thuganomics character. My personal preference is, as TWJC: The Beginning said, if he's allowed free reign on the mic and addresses the issues the IWC always yaps about he'll be a great character just the way he is. However, as a writer, I can see that if he's allowed to discuss that, he's going to come off as a heel anyways and lose brownie points with the fans he already has. So being a heel gives someone else a chance to up their merchandising sales while Cena, as top heel won't drop that badly if at all despite that popular misconception. Hollywood Hogan and nWo t-shirt sales are some of the best selling shirts of all time. In the end Cena as top heel + newly pushed face (The Miz) = < $ than Cena as top face by himself.
 
Do you REALLY believe that the product we have with Cena being face right now couldn't be improved with someone that's just as charismatic being pushed into the new face of the company after all these years of having Cena as face, and moving Cena to top heel? Fact is, there's talent enough now to have more than 1 top face or heel, like when we had Rock & Austin or Hogan & Savage.
Funny. I thought that this was why Randy Orton was moved to Smackdown. 2 top faces.
We're trying to have an intelligent open-minded conversation. Please don't bash everyone's ideas simply because they're different and you're tired of discussing the topic.
When it comes up every other week, it tends to get on people's nerves.

BTW I didn't like Cena's thuganomics character. My personal preference is, as TWJC: The Beginning said, if he's allowed free reign on the mic and addresses the issues the IWC always yaps about he'll be a great character just the way he is. However, as a writer, I can see that if he's allowed to discuss that, he's going to come off as a heel anyways and lose brownie points with the fans he already has.
No. He's gonna come off as lousy. Because he needs to dip into what a bunch of people with no pull over him have to say for promo material.
So being a heel gives someone else a chance to up their merchandising sales while Cena, as top heel won't drop that badly if at all despite that popular misconception.
Cena doesn't need to be a heel for someone else to sell more merch than him. 2007-08 had Jeff Hardy outselling Cena with ease. Was Cena heel then? Better yet, if you want a new top face, wouldn't toppling Cena's sales value at it's peak be the best way to get that role?
Hollywood Hogan and nWo t-shirt sales are some of the best selling shirts of all time. In the end Cena as top heel + newly pushed face (The Miz) = < $ than Cena as top face by himself.
Right. Because apparently Mysterio masks and Chicago Punk shirts are not hot collectibles right now.
 
The discussion as a whole is not about turning him heel NOW, it's about setting him up for a heel turn in the near future. You've completely missed the point of the discussion.

So, what you're saying is this conversation is about turning Cena heel. Whether it's now or later, it's the same conversation.

Do you REALLY believe that the product we have with Cena being face right now couldn't be improved with someone that's just as charismatic being pushed into the new face of the company after all these years of having Cena as face, and moving Cena to top heel? Fact is, there's talent enough now to have more than 1 top face or heel, like when we had Rock & Austin or Hogan & Savage.

Totally different dynamic, considering the fact that there are now two different brands and television shows featuring different talent on each. In order to push someone to Cena's level as a replacement top babyface, said person would have to be constantly showcased on BOTH shows in high-profile situations that cover the entire audience as a whole (i.e. Wrestlemania). And it would turn the entire company upside down right now.

Also, I never said it was an impossibility. I just said it was a bad idea.

We're trying to have an intelligent open-minded conversation. Please don't bash everyone's ideas simply because they're different and you're tired of discussing the topic.

Oh, I see. Because I don't agree with you then I'm not welcome in the conversation? How about you realize that there are multiple sides to every discussion. If mine disagrees with yours then that's just too fucking bad. Welcome to the "discussion."

There is no reason to get butt hurt because I don't agree with you. Grow some thick skin and stop being so damn sensitive. I had to learn that the hard way on this forum. (Hell, I'm still learning.)

BTW I didn't like Cena's thuganomics character. My personal preference is, as TWJC: The Beginning said, if he's allowed free reign on the mic and addresses the issues the IWC always yaps about he'll be a great character just the way he is. However, as a writer, I can see that if he's allowed to discuss that, he's going to come off as a heel anyways and lose brownie points with the fans he already has. So being a heel gives someone else a chance to up their merchandising sales while Cena, as top heel won't drop that badly if at all despite that popular misconception.

One problem with this: Who is getting babyface responses like Cena right now? Who is even on the same level as John Cena in terms of merchandise sales or ability to draw sales in different storylines during flagship PPV's like John Cena? Randy Orton? CM Punk? Rey Mysterio? Christian? Sorry, but if those were any of your answers then you are sorely mistaken.

It would take a VERY long period of buildup in order to get someone to Cena's level of popularity. Does the WWE wish to reinvent the wheel? I highly doubt it.

Hollywood Hogan and nWo t-shirt sales are some of the best selling shirts of all time. In the end Cena as top heel + newly pushed face (The Miz) = < $ than Cena as top face by himself.

The Attitude Era and everything that came with it was an anomaly in the industry. That was a time period where it was cool to like the bad guys. Many current pro-wrestling fans are stuck in this era and can't seem to evolve with the times. But they still don't outweigh the new fans who flow with the status quo so reverting back to that way of booking is foolish and a potential loss in money from all angles.

Remember something... WCW needed to shake up the industry. That is why they created the nWo and turned Hulk Hogan heel. The WWE doesn't have a need to do this right now so it would never have the same effect now as it did then.
 
Funny. I thought that this was why Randy Orton was moved to Smackdown. 2 top faces.
What's your point?

When it comes up every other week, it tends to get on people's nerves.
So don't join in the conversation, very simple. That's exactly what I tell my kids when they don't like what their mother and I are talking about too. They don't have to talk with us about something they don't like to, they can go in the other room and play.


No. He's gonna come off as lousy. Because he needs to dip into what a bunch of people with no pull over him have to say for promo material.
Well that's the beauty of speculation and opinions isn't it? I was giving my opinion when talking about what I would personally like, not what I think would be best.

Cena doesn't need to be a heel for someone else to sell more merch than him. 2007-08 had Jeff Hardy outselling Cena with ease. Was Cena heel then? Better yet, if you want a new top face, wouldn't toppling Cena's sales value at it's peak be the best way to get that role?
No, I think we need a new face groomed and ready to go for when Cena's performance starts slumping due to age. He's been working his ass off, and he's in his mid-30's now. It's just about time he either takes an extended break in which case you need a new face to fill in, or he need to turn heel, start cheating and getting help to make up for his physical downslide.

Right. Because apparently Mysterio masks and Chicago Punk shirts are not hot collectibles right now.
What's your point? Can you explain yourself better?
 
So, what you're saying is this conversation is about turning Cena heel. Whether it's now or later, it's the same conversation.

You mention Hogan later in your post. Let's assume for a moment the IWC existed since 1980. You don't think the discussion of turning Hogan heel in 1987 and would have been different from the discussion in 1995?

Totally different dynamic, considering the fact that there are now two different brands and television shows featuring different talent on each.

That hasn't been the case entirely for a long time. Talent is swapped so liberally, it way as well be one show.

In order to push someone to Cena's level as a replacement top babyface, said person would have to be constantly showcased on BOTH shows in high-profile situations that cover the entire audience as a whole (i.e. Wrestlemania). And it would turn the entire company upside down right now.

True. Cena earned high profile matches and feuds on both Smackdown AND Raw, at a time when there was greater separation between the two.

Also, I never said it was an impossibility. I just said it was a bad idea.

Would it have been a bad idea to turn Hogan in 1996? That one turned out ok, and Hogan had been doing what Cena's doing now for longer, and had been doing it just as well or better.

One problem with this: Who is getting babyface responses like Cena right now? Who is even on the same level as John Cena in terms of merchandise sales or ability to draw sales in different storylines during flagship PPV's like John Cena? Randy Orton? CM Punk? Rey Mysterio? Christian? Sorry, but if those were any of your answers then you are sorely mistaken.

I would have said Punk and Mysterio only.
 
So, what you're saying is this conversation is about turning Cena heel. Whether it's now or later, it's the same conversation.
There is NO ONE on the roster right now who leads the charge of the WWE entertainment machine like John Cena.
It's NOT the same conversation, close, but not quite. Turning Cena heel right now is a bad idea, setting him up for the heel turn in say a year from now, which it looks like they're doing already, is a good idea.



Totally different dynamic, considering the fact that there are now two different brands and television shows featuring different talent on each. In order to push someone to Cena's level as a replacement top babyface, said person would have to be constantly showcased on BOTH shows in high-profile situations that cover the entire audience as a whole (i.e. Wrestlemania). And it would turn the entire company upside down right now.

Also, I never said it was an impossibility. I just said it was a bad idea.
Well THAT is a much more well reasoned argument.



Oh, I see. Because I don't agree with you then I'm not welcome in the conversation? How about you realize that there are multiple sides to every discussion. If mine disagrees with yours then that's just too fucking bad. Welcome to the "discussion."
I do, I'm saying don't be insulting. It's against the rules. I'm glad to talk to you intelligently, you just proved you have good arguments to make when you're not calling people half-witted.

There is no reason to get butt hurt because I don't agree with you. Grow some thick skin and stop being so damn sensitive. I had to learn that the hard way on this forum. (Hell, I'm still learning.)
:) I'm not hurt. I'm married, you can't hurt me. Anything you could say to me is nothing compared to the abuse I can get from my wife. :p lol



One problem with this: Who is getting babyface responses like Cena right now? Who is even on the same level as John Cena in terms of merchandise sales or ability to draw sales in different storylines during flagship PPV's like John Cena? Randy Orton? CM Punk? Rey Mysterio? Christian? Sorry, but if those were any of your answers then you are sorely mistaken.
Again, we're not talking about RIGHT NOW. This conversation is about the set up for his heel turn. Go back and read my novel I wrote a number of posts back, I already explained that. If you're not willing to do that, you wouldn't be having this conversation with me right now.

It would take a VERY long period of buildup in order to get someone to Cena's level of popularity. Does the WWE wish to reinvent the wheel? I highly doubt it.
It could be done in 1 year easily.



The Attitude Era and everything that came with it was an anomaly in the industry. That was a time period where it was cool to like the bad guys. Many current pro-wrestling fans are stuck in this era and can't seem to evolve with the times. But they still don't outweigh the new fans who flow with the status quo
VERY true! However with someone in place to fill his spot, as I've already described needs to be in the works right now, and I believe is in the works with The Miz, Cena's heel turn very much makes sense. We can have 2 top heels, in CM Punk & John Cena, Punk is more of a neutral character (no I hate the word tweener) anyways.

Remember something... WCW needed to shake up the industry. That is why they created the nWo and turned Hulk Hogan heel. The WWE doesn't have a need to do this right now so it would never have the same effect now as it did then.

My point wasn't that Hogan was successful so Cena should follow suit because it'd be good for business, it was that Hogan went from top face of all time to top heel and sales didn't get hurt at all. Cena won't have that same reaction but Hogan's success proves that there's no reason to believe that Cena can't garner a sales spike in his new heel shirts.

This isn't about some massive epic shake up the business sudden move. It's about the natural evolution of the company. Cena's getting to a risky age in his life where he's going to slow down, his injuries will start catching up to him, and it's a ticking bomb as to when it happens, it could be yesterday it could be 4 years from now, but it's going to happen soon, and the foundations had better be laid down right away so that when Cena's time comes it can happen seamlessly.
 
You mention Hogan later in your post. Let's assume for a moment the IWC existed since 1980. You don't think the discussion of turning Hogan heel in 1987 and would have been different from the discussion in 1995?

I was around during the Hogan era and I prayed for something like that to happen. We were all craving something different back then. (Keep this in mind for the remainder of my post.)

That hasn't been the case entirely for a long time. Talent is swapped so liberally, it way as well be one show.

Not as much as you think. Regardless of how much they swap stars during three hour broadcasts and special events, these wrestlers are still branded to their respective shows. Are these sporadic switches doing enough to build the next "John Cena" type babyface?

Would it have been a bad idea to turn Hogan in 1996? That one turned out ok, and Hogan had been doing what Cena's doing now for longer, and had been doing it just as well or better.

Now, please reference how I used the phrase "craving something different". What was done in 1996 had never been done before. There had never been a heel turn in that type of caliber. Times were different... they were too "cookie-cutter." The audience needed an explosion of a change and Eric Bischoff came up with one. But that is all a part of history now and so many "drastic" babyface/heel turns have come of it that they have lost their luster. Just look at TNA... they are a perfect example of an organization who overuses them. Now, they're just par for the course. So why do it now for the sake of a shock value with a lifespan of a month, at best? The nWo shocked the world for YEARS after they were created. Cena's heel turn will be forgotten within a month and we'll all want him to go babyface again. Is that good business?
 
What's your point?
You want WWE to have another major star to break out. But fail acknowledge the one's that do exist. There's a reason Randy Orton was moved to Smackdown and it was because putting one of the two on top of Raw meant snubbing the other. WWE already has various other major stars that can well replace Cena should he leave or be injured.

So don't join in the conversation, very simple. That's exactly what I tell my kids when they don't like what their mother and I are talking about too. They don't have to talk with us about something they don't like to, they can go in the other room and play.
It's hard to ignore something so loud.

Well that's the beauty of speculation and opinions isn't it? I was giving my opinion when talking about what I would personally like, not what I think would be best.
It's not really speculation. More like observation. Right now, Cena is himself. Dipping in here to see what people think about him, is both petty and stupid. He's above the opinion of snobs who think they can work the business. This isn't an indy, so you know. WWE's fanbase is far wider than just us forum goers.

No, I think we need a new face groomed and ready to go for when Cena's performance starts slumping due to age. He's been working his ass off, and he's in his mid-30's now. It's just about time he either takes an extended break in which case you need a new face to fill in, or he need to turn heel, start cheating and getting help to make up for his physical downslide.

Again with this? Do the names CM Punk, Randy Orton, Sheamus or The Miz mean nothing to you? The only reason guys don't seem to click the way Cena does is WWE's own uncaring fault. It has absolutely nothing to do with Cena's role as a face or as a heel.
What's your point? Can you explain yourself better?
What's my point? You're the one talking about new stars when the subject is about John Cena and a heel turn. I'm just telling you one has nothing to do with the other.
 
Ok people get this through you heads once and for all : Cena isn't turning heel in this lifetime. Cena turning heel, means WWE will loose money and if that happens Vince Mcmahon will have a heart attack. So no Cena will never turn heel in WWE and since i don't see him going to TNA or ROH you can forget a Cena heel turn.
 
It's NOT the same conversation, close, but not quite. Turning Cena heel right now is a bad idea, setting him up for the heel turn in say a year from now, which it looks like they're doing already, is a good idea.

Taking one sentence of my post out of context doesn't prove your point. Whether they turn him heel now or begin the process, it's still turning him heel.

I do, I'm saying don't be insulting. It's against the rules. I'm glad to talk to you intelligently, you just proved you have good arguments to make when you're not calling people half-witted.

Trust me, I know the rules. They didn't make me G-Mod because of my looks, you know. ;)

Candle Jack summed it up best... it's hard for us to keep cool when this topic is created week-in and week-out. Everyone who creates the topic thinks it's never been thought of before because it's not on the first four pages of posts in the section. Check the archives... this comes up once every other week (and that's putting it lightly.) So excuse my frustration.

:) I'm not hurt. I'm married, you can't hurt me. Anything you could say to me is nothing compared to the abuse I can get from my wife. :p lol

Yikes. Sorry to hear ;)

It could be done in 1 year easily.

Anything could be done over a long period of time. Like I said earlier, it's not an impossibility... it's just a bad idea.

There would really need to be a bigger demand for Cena to go heel than us clamoring about it on an internet wrestling website or a few boos from some select cities across the USA. Fact of the matter is that John Cena has far surpassed the status of babyface champion of the WWE and has become more of an institution. He is a mainstream movie star, a television personality, and a face that represents a billion dollar entertainment corporation. It's a lot more than most of the IWC complainers tend to think through.

VERY true! However with someone in place to fill his spot, as I've already described needs to be in the works right now, and I believe is in the works with The Miz, Cena's heel turn very much makes sense. We can have 2 top heels, in CM Punk & John Cena, Punk is more of a neutral character (no I hate the word tweener) anyways.

But if he's still making the WWE millions of dollars during this future time period when you feel his heel turn should take place, is it really a good idea to go through with it? That's my point. Whether it's right now, two weeks from now, a month from now, next year, or in five years, if the guy continues to be a money-making magnet, do you risk take all of that away in order to satisfy a few naysayers?

My point wasn't that Hogan was successful so Cena should follow suit because it'd be good for business, it was that Hogan went from top face of all time to top heel and sales didn't get hurt at all. Cena won't have that same reaction but Hogan's success proves that there's no reason to believe that Cena can't garner a sales spike in his new heel shirts.

Agreed to an extent. After all, CM Punk's t-shirts sales are through the roof. But when the next batch comes out (after the novelty of this current storyline wears off), will they be just as profitable? The difference between a heel turn now and a heel turn back in the mid 90's was that, back then, it was the cool thing to buy merchandise for. Nowadays, a heel doesn't stay as consistent with their merchandise sales as a John Cena-esque babyface would.

This isn't about some massive epic shake up the business sudden move. It's about the natural evolution of the company. Cena's getting to a risky age in his life where he's going to slow down, his injuries will start catching up to him, and it's a ticking bomb as to when it happens, it could be yesterday it could be 4 years from now, but it's going to happen soon, and the foundations had better be laid down right away so that when Cena's time comes it can happen seamlessly.

I won't sit here and act like everyone doesn't make a face or heel turn, eventually. That would be ignorant and, more importantly, WRONG. But while his current persona still has legs, the WWE will milk him for all he's worth. Who knows when he'll slow down. But right now, it's not looking like anytime soon.
 

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