Baseball Hall of Fame Adds No New Members

[CH David]

Sure, they did. That's why Frank Thomas suffered a gradual decline in power numbers and was not hitting nearly 40 home runs when he was 38.

Are you just trying to play Devil's Advocate about Jr. and Frank Thomas? I won't say Thomas never took PEDs, since I haven't personally seen him every day of his life. But, a question I bring up. Why would Frank Thomas be an advocate for PEDs testing throughout his career, if he would get caught himself? That just seems stupid.

As far as the Hall goes. Whatever. I couldn't care less about guys like Sosa or McGwire. Bonds and Clemens I say should be in. I'd say Bonds was well on his way to a HOF career before the BALCO shit, he was just such a diva that McGwire and Sosa were hitting home runs and he couldn't stand it. At least that's how I feel. Regardless, dude took them, but he is still one of the best to play the game. He should be in eventually. Clemens, more unknown, but he is still one of the best pitchers ever, I think he will eventually make it.

Now where I think the whole BBWAA thing is stupid is that there are those that don't vote for guys simply because they don't want a guy to go in on the first try. That's fucking stupid. Craig Biggio likely makes it next year because some ********s just didn't want to let him in the first year. That's crap.

 

[Slyfox696]

Are you just trying to play Devil's Advocate about Jr. and Frank Thomas? I won't say Thomas never took PEDs, since I haven't personally seen him every day of his life. But, a question I bring up. Why would Frank Thomas be an advocate for PEDs testing throughout his career, if he would get caught himself? That just seems stupid.

Because he thought he could beat the tests.

I'm not saying he did juice, as I said, I try to believe in innocence until proof. But if we're merely using using inconclusive evidence, then I can use Frank Thomas just as easily.

And I've long thought Griffey was a likely user. Maybe not to bulk up as much as to recover. I just think all the injuries, as well as the type of injuries, are highly suggestive. Again, that's not to say he should be kept out, innocent until proven otherwise. But I suspect Griffey did.

 

[CH David]

Because he thought he could beat the tests.

I'm not saying he did juice, as I said, I try to believe in innocence until proof. But if we're merely using using inconclusive evidence, then I can use Frank Thomas just as easily.

So you are playing Devil's Advocate. I can respect that. My point was mainly with Thomas, by the way.

And I've long thought Griffey was a likely user. Maybe not to bulk up as much as to recover. I just think all the injuries, as well as the type of injuries, are highly suggestive. Again, that's not to say he should be kept out, innocent until proven otherwise. But I suspect Griffey did.

I think I remember you talking about this a few years ago. So more likely you think he was using something like HGH?

 

[Slyfox696]

I think I remember you talking about this a few years ago. So more likely you think he was using something like HGH?

Perhaps both. But more steroids. You have to remember, they didn't test for steroids for a long time in MLB. And when you look at the injuries Griffey had, they just seem consistent in what you'd see from steroid use.

 

[CH David]

Perhaps both. But more steroids. You have to remember, they didn't test for steroids for a long time in MLB. And when you look at the injuries Griffey had, they just seem consistent in what you'd see from steroid use.

Just don't forget that he was also an all out player with little regard for his body. Plus playing on that turf in Seattle wasn't the best thing for anyone, especially a guy that plays that hard. Regardless, he'll be in the Hall soon enough unless reports come out that he did steroids. Even then, may just take a few years.

If you take the steroids thing into account, do you vote with all the guys just based on numbers, or do you do it by whether they would've been in no matter what? Bonds and Clemens, in no matter what. Sosa and McGwire? Not a chance. Good hitters possibly, but just not at a HOF level. Eh, it is what it is. I'm not a part of the BBWAA, and I couldn't care less about their inductions, or lack thereof, anymore. They'll keep guys that should be first ballot HOFers out just because they don't want them in on their first ballot. Fuck 'em.

 

[shattered dreams]

Actually I think we have a fair amount of evidence that some of the biggest things steroids were used for were recovery and by association being able to fight off the traditional aging downward curve. Griffey excelled at neither.