WWE Region, Memphis Subregion, First Round: (12) Roddy Piper vs. (21) Yokozuna

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the WWE Region, Memphis Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WWE Rules. It will be held at the Fed Ex Forum in Memphis, Tennessee.

#12. Roddy Piper

Vs.

#21. Yokozuna

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Rayne]

Yokozuna is a serious under seed in this tournament, and Roddy is a bit overseeded at a #12. Roddy will huff and puff, but he does not blow the big man down- not this time, at least. Banzai drop and a long, hard stare into the camera- and not that long into the match, either.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Yokozuna is a serious under seed in this tournament, and Roddy is a bit overseeded at a #12. Roddy will huff and puff, but he does not blow the big man down- not this time, at least. Banzai drop and a long, hard stare into the camera- and not that long into the match, either.

You're severely underestimating Piper's survivability and quick thinking. Piper made his career outwitting opponents and pissing them off in and out of the ring. Also it's worth mentioning that few people have pinned Piper's shoulders to the mat, and even though Yokozuna is a huge man, I can easily see Piper wearing the big man out by weaseling about.

A few low blows here, a few eye gouges there behind the referee's back, and maybe some work about the legs to cut Yokozuna down to his knees, and Piper could easily take home the win here with his trademark sleeper hold. Piper certainly wouldn't want to try the sleeper with Yoko on his feet as he would surely be pancaked underneath the behemoth, but I see Piper using his intelligence to lead him to victory.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

I have to agree with Rayne on this one. Yoko is just to big and I can'T see Piper having anything in his arsenal that could serious effect the big guy. Yoko will easily crush Hot Rod.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Man I would love for Piper to go over here, because, you know, he's Rowdy Roddy Piper. I mean come on! He was rowdy before rowdy was cool. Just when you have all the answers he changes the questions. You never throw rocks at someone who has a machine gun. He's just so damn cool.

In reality, however, I just can't see the Rowdy one going over Yoko. Yoko is just to big and powerful to be defeated by Piper. Yes Piper will get the occasional cheap shop or eye poke, but that wouldn't stop Yoko for very long. Also, I just can't realistically envision the Sleeper Hold putting Yoko down. If this were a gimmick match and Piper could use weapons, that would be a different story, however, in a straight one on one contest I believe that Yoko goes over.

 

[6timehitta]

As much as I love Piper, he drew probably the only seed where he could just get squished like a bug. Piper, in a mic only contest, could win the whole she-bang, but Piper just gets destroyed overall.

 

[Big Papa Santo]

You're severely underestimating Piper's survivability and quick thinking. Piper made his career outwitting opponents and pissing them off in and out of the ring. Also it's worth mentioning that few people have pinned Piper's shoulders to the mat, and even though Yokozuna is a huge man, I can easily see Piper wearing the big man out by weaseling about.

A few low blows here, a few eye gouges there behind the referee's back, and maybe some work about the legs to cut Yokozuna down to his knees, and Piper could easily take home the win here with his trademark sleeper hold. Piper certainly wouldn't want to try the sleeper with Yoko on his feet as he would surely be pancaked underneath the behemoth, but I see Piper using his intelligence to lead him to victory.

I definitley get where you're coming from, but Yoko wouldn't even give Roddy the chance to get in close enough to work his legs, and if Hot Rod somehow found a crack in Yoko's defenses and was able to momentarily do some damage to Yoko on the inside, then you better believe that he'd make him pay for it. And with a big guy like Yoko, the sleeper hold is going to be damn-near impossible. Eîther Yoko beats Piper the clean way with a Bonzai Drop, or Piper just acts like Piper and walks out on this losing match during the beginning of it and gives the victory to Yoko by count-out.

Santos Prediction: 1. Yokozuna beats Roddy Piper by way of pinfall at the 8 minute mark with a bonzai drop 2. Yokozuna beats Roddy Piper by way of countout after Piper walks out on the match at the 3 minute mark.

 

[8thwotwATG]

Big Yoko goes over Hot Rod here, but not quite with as much ease as one might expect. Piper, after all, was one of the most successfull heels in the business, and rarely, if ever, was pinned. 'Zuna would likely dominate early, knocking Pipes around like a rag doll, using his weight and power to inflict damage on the scot. Piper however, would probably keep bouncing back up, tearing into Yoko's face, pulling his hair, and maybe even drawing blood out of the massive samoan. I believe that this would enrage Yoko, causing him to inflict more damage to the point where Piper would do something so blatantly illegal that the referee is forced to disqualify him. Yoko goes over, but not by pinfall or submission, and Piper assaults Yoko with a chair after the decision is announced. I made the call for this in this manner, because Yoko was one of the most dominant heel champs during the 90's, while Piper was the greatest heel of his time, and didn't need titles, or lose heat by DQ losses. This wouldn't be a technical classic, but fans would get their moneys worth from both guys.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

This is going to Yoko no question about it.

Piper always did well against the heels when he was the face, I don't recall him ever going over clean to a heel but he did lose a lot by deceptive means or did a no contest. At most I could see Piper losing by DQ but I don't see him going over Yokozuna, I just don't see it. Piper will try every dirty trick in the book to take out Yoko but overall I would think Yoko's size and power would overwhelm Piper and he would lose. Piper took down a lot of heels but he never went over a guy like Yokozuna at least cleanly.

Yoko was the exception of the monster heels, where most monster heels were built until they faced a main eventer to lose Yoko was the one who often won, especially in his prime. I'm not talking about 650lb Yoko who could barely move, I'm talking about 450-500 lb Yoko where he could actually move around and wrestle a match and was a legit force in WWE. If nothing else Yokozuna had one of the longest heel reigns as champion, it says a lot when you can hold the title 9 months straight as a heel.

Piper is losing clean or getting himself disqualified, either way he loses and Yokozuna wins.

 

[Con T.]

A couple of arguments I've seen already that I don't agree with, at all.

1. Yokozuna was a dominant force:

Oh, really? Because it looked like to me that Yokozuna needed a lot of help whenever he was champion. Whether it be needing eleven guys to beat Undertaker or Mr. Fuji to beat Bret Hart, Yokozuna rarely got the kind of clean wins everyone seems to think he got. Even when dealing with the likes of a part time Macho Man and Hacksaw, Yoko rarely just got the clean win.

2. Being WWF Champion is worthwhile on it's own

Not really; it's a nice little accolade, but as champion, your main goal is to draw an audience. Now, this has changed somewhat in years, but even in Yoko's time, the presumption was that Yoko would draw a massive audience for a patriotism angle.

That was never the case. In fact, Yokozuna was a pretty mediocre draw throughout his whole reign. And save me the whole "heels aren't meant to be the main draw" argument; Flair drew audiences to watch him wrestle Ricky fucking Morton.

Piper, on the other hand, is one of the greatest draws in wrestling history. It was him, Hogan, and Mr. T that put Wrestlemania on their shoulders, and made it the success that it was. It was Piper, with Hogan, that broke business records in attendance in 85. And it was Piper that helped make wrestling a national business.

Yokozuna was a largely mediocre draw, who was shoved back down the line as soon as Undertaker came back to finish off their big angle. Oh, and that did shitty business, too. And it had Chuck Norris

When you do shitty business with Chuck Norris on the marquee, something's wrong.

3. Piper has no offense to Yoko

Let's split this up into three qualifying points why this is a shit argument.

A. Yokozuna, for a big man, was a great seller. As a matter of fact, it was probably his best attribute. And because of that, unless Yokozuna was wrestling a jobber, he gave plenty of offense. Duggan, Earthquake; and other perennial jobbers actually got to Yoko, to the point that people believed Yoko would fall.

B. Once you got Yokozuna down, he stayed down. Bret Hart beat Yokozuna, essentially because Yoko couldn't recover from missing his finishing move. Disel beat Yokozuna in similar ways on house shows; hell, Steve Austin beat Yokozuna because he couldn't get up. If Piper gets Yokozuna down, history shows he's fucked, unless you want to argue for outside interference, a shitty argument.

C. Do you really believe Piper is stupid enough to go after Yoko? Piper's MO, in his prime, was to get into his opponents head and get them disqualified. Deanerandterry's argument, ironically enough, would be more likely used the other way around.

Listen, without Piper, the business isn't what it is now. Hogan needed a heel like Piper to work with, and the WWF needed someone to carry Mr. T. Piper, Orndorff and Orton were the guys that were drawing the massive houses with Hogan, and it was Piper that the people wanted to see get his ass kicked. Piper deserves this match, far more than Yokozuna does

 

[Poop Master Flex]

A couple of arguments I've seen already that I don't agree with, at all.

1. Yokozuna was a dominant force:

Oh, really? Because it looked like to me that Yokozuna needed a lot of help whenever he was champion. Whether it be needing eleven guys to beat Undertaker or Mr. Fuji to beat Bret Hart, Yokozuna rarely got the kind of clean wins everyone seems to think he got. Even when dealing with the likes of a part time Macho Man and Hacksaw, Yoko rarely just got the clean win.

2. Being WWF Champion is worthwhile on it's own

Not really; it's a nice little accolade, but as champion, your main goal is to draw an audience. Now, this has changed somewhat in years, but even in Yoko's time, the presumption was that Yoko would draw a massive audience for a patriotism angle.

That was never the case. In fact, Yokozuna was a pretty mediocre draw throughout his whole reign. And save me the whole "heels aren't meant to be the main draw" argument; Flair drew audiences to watch him wrestle Ricky fucking Morton.

Piper, on the other hand, is one of the greatest draws in wrestling history. It was him, Hogan, and Mr. T that put Wrestlemania on their shoulders, and made it the success that it was. It was Piper, with Hogan, that broke business records in attendance in 85. And it was Piper that helped make wrestling a national business.

Yokozuna was a largely mediocre draw, who was shoved back down the line as soon as Undertaker came back to finish off their big angle. Oh, and that did shitty business, too. And it had Chuck Norris

When you do shitty business with Chuck Norris on the marquee, something's wrong.

3. Piper has no offense to Yoko

Let's split this up into three qualifying points why this is a shit argument.

A. Yokozuna, for a big man, was a great seller. As a matter of fact, it was probably his best attribute. And because of that, unless Yokozuna was wrestling a jobber, he gave plenty of offense. Duggan, Earthquake; and other perennial jobbers actually got to Yoko, to the point that people believed Yoko would fall.

B. Once you got Yokozuna down, he stayed down. Bret Hart beat Yokozuna, essentially because Yoko couldn't recover from missing his finishing move. Disel beat Yokozuna in similar ways on house shows; hell, Steve Austin beat Yokozuna because he couldn't get up. If Piper gets Yokozuna down, history shows he's fucked, unless you want to argue for outside interference, a shitty argument.

C. Do you really believe Piper is stupid enough to go after Yoko? Piper's MO, in his prime, was to get into his opponents head and get them disqualified. Deanerandterry's argument, ironically enough, would be more likely used the other way around.

Listen, without Piper, the business isn't what it is now. Hogan needed a heel like Piper to work with, and the WWF needed someone to carry Mr. T. Piper, Orndorff and Orton were the guys that were drawing the massive houses with Hogan, and it was Piper that the people wanted to see get his ass kicked. Piper deserves this match, far more than Yokozuna does

You make some interesting points but you're looking at this the wrong way. Yoko doesn't need the clean win to beat Piper at all. It's not really about who's the bigger draw (although anyone with half a brain knows Yoko can't shake a stick at Piper when it comes to that) its about who would most likely win a match in the circumstances presented.

Even though Piper was a big draw how many times did he ever conquer who he was facing in WWE? Hogan? Nope. Snuka? Nope. Mr. T? Nope. Ravishing Rick Rude? Nope. Bret Hart? Nope. When we look at feuds Piper had how many opponents did he really overcome? Lawler, The Mountie, Adrian Adonis and Goldust are the ones that come to mind.

Piper was great but he was more used to get talent over. I like Piper more but in all honesty Piper never went over any main event performer his entire career. Piper all in all may be better but the way WWE built Yokozuna in his prime and during his time as champion even in their prime I can only imagine them doing the same thing. In his prime Yoko beat Bret and Hogan for the title (doesn't matter if he cheated he still won), Luger beat him (but Luger was being built to be the next big thing) and The Undertaker even lost to Yoko before he took some time off.

Piper was a main eventer, a bigger draw and overall better than Yoko but it wasn't Piper's job to go over the top stars, I don't recall him ever going over a top star. Regardless of when Yoko was on top and how good his title reign was Yokozuna was a top guy for WWE for a few years and even though Piper is better, they would not have their top heel lose to Piper, it just wouldn't happen.

 

[Con T.]

You make some interesting points but you're looking at this the wrong way

Isn't the point of this tournament that you can use any argument you want, and ergo, that there's no "wrong" particular way to look at matchups.

I wouldn't say that Piper was only used to get people over, he was used to do what you should do in he business; draw houses. And Piper did that better than any other opponent Hogan had, save for maybe Savage.

Who did Piper beat, or get the better of? There was Chavo Sr, for one, a guy who probably deserves to be in this tournament more than Eddy. Mind you, he got his win the same way I described earlier. You already said Adonis, but that was a major thing; Adrian was probably one of the most hated guys in WWF, and it's probably Piper's crowning "moment", if we want to call it that. He got the best of Flair, pretty damn close to his prime, got wins over Andre by DQ, as well (which admittedly went the other way plenty of times)

Oh, and he also beat Hollywood Hogan, when absolutely no one else did. Hogan did clean jobs to four men; Sting, Luger, Goldberg. And even that Sting (intentionally or otherwise) is muddled.

Even you admit that Piper, all around, was a better talent and more meaningful to be business. So why should I say Yoko will win? Because of "kayfabe"?

You know what kayfabe is? It's the booking of business, to draw the most money.

Who draws more money? Piper.

Kayfabe. Logic

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

People saying Piper couldn't win with the sleeper hold clearly have no understanding of how effective a blood or air choke can be, especially against someone of larger size... I've seen plenty of small/average sized people choke out fatties in Jiu Jitsu. Also you'll note how I made mention that Piper wouldn't want to be applying it from a standing position as in jumping on Yoko's back or anything of the like as he'd be pancaked almost immediately... But...

As Occam stated if Yokozuna was put on his back he was fucked... All it would take is Piper cinching in that sleeper hold to a downed Yokozuna, and he'd be done. Mind you, Piper's sleeper hold was considered to be the real deal; not the *****fied rest hold it is today.

People act as if Piper is just going to rush in at the ring of the bell and start trying to brawl with Yoko... Those people have clearly never watched a Piper match. He stalls, he runs, and is constantly moving. That would do two things: frustrate Yoko, AND tire him out. When a guy the size of Yokozuna is sucking hard air he's less likely to be able to defend against attacks.

Piper would take a beating in the match but he's more than proven he can take an ass-whipping and still be in the game... Don't believe me? Go watch him and Greg Valentine beat the shit out of each other with a chain. Piper wins this match hands down because he's a tough bastard. You don't even need to bring the FACTS that he was a bigger draw and did more for pro-wrestling, that's just icing on the cake.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I can't decide whether Piper wins because Cowboy Bob's cast is more lethal than Fuji's cane or because Piper had the power of blatant bigotry and stereotyping on his side. Piper's character was an awful human being, he would never survive in today's PCish WWE but in his prime (if I remember correctly) he had tremendous success against non-white American opponents. I could see Piper stabbing Yoko in the eyes with chop sticks, Orton hitting Yoko over the back of the head with his cast while Piper distracted the ref, and Piper then hooking in the sleeper after Yoko fell to his knees.

Vegas currently has Piper as a 2 to 1 in this bout, knowing WZ voters this will be pushed to 3 to 1 by voting time.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Isn't the point of this tournament that you can use any argument you want, and ergo, that there's no "wrong" particular way to look at matchups.

I wouldn't say that Piper was only used to get people over, he was used to do what you should do in he business; draw houses. And Piper dbyid that better than any other opponent Hogan had, save for maybe Savage.

Who did Piper beat, or get the better of? There was Chavo Sr, for one, a guy who probably deserves to be in this tournament more than Eddy. Mind you, he got his win the same way I described earlier. You already said Adonis, but that was a major thing; Adrian was probably one of the most hated guys in WWF, and it's probably Piper's crowning "moment", if we want to call it that. He got the best of Flair, pretty damn close to his prime, got wins over Andre by DQ, as well (which admittedly went the other way plenty of times)

Oh, and he also beat Hollywood Hogan, when absolutely no one else did. Hogan did clean jobs to four men; Sting, Luger, Goldberg. And even that Sting (intentionally or otherwise) is muddled.

Even you admit that Piper, all around, was a better talent and more meaningful to be business. So why should I say Yoko will win? Because of "kayfabe"?

You know what kayfabe is? It's the booking of business, to draw the most money.

Who draws more money? Piper.

Kayfabe. Logic

Chavo, Flair and Hollywood were in NWA or WCW, this is in the WWE region which means in a WWE ring with WWE bookers so those 3 can be overlooked. Steamboat went over Flair in WCW, doesn't mean he would go over Hogan or Warrior in WWE. Adonis got heat but he was a mid carder and wasn't a top heel.

Also Piper was only ever main evented against top draws, I dont ever recall Piper being the one to draw a house solely on his shoulders. I'm not saying he couldn't but in WWE that was not his place. Jake could have been the draw, doesn't mean he was, he was the guy who got the other guy ready for the draw. Piper was the guy who was entertaining, fought top talent but never went over top talent, in WWE that was his job. Outside of Snuka, Mr. T and Hogan when did Piper ever main event against anyone?

Now against Yoko chances are he would be the heel and Piper the face which is the most effective way this match would work. Piper never main evented anything in WWE as a face outside 94 KOTR with Lawler. Yoko is booked as the unstoppable monster heel who ended Hulkamania and they both face. Even Piper in his prime would not be booked to go over WWE's top monster heel. Logically that's not how WWE does things. Now if this was WCW region Piper would win but it's not.

The only argument you really give is Piper drew more. Although that may be true he never drew in WWE on his own, without that strong babyface Piper did nothing of note and between the ropes did very little as a babyface.

 

[Con T.]

Look; I tried this argument with KB when I argued Dusty Rhodes should go into our hall of fame this year. I lost that argument, and lost outright, knowing that I done fucked up in trying to argue what you're saying right now, so also understand I know this argument very well... And I know how to debunk it, too.

That way to debunk it is Paul Orndorff. Because Piper and Orndorff drew huge houses in '86, when Piper turned on him. It wasn't the mega face you were expecting, but he and Ornodorff did huge business, both winding up on the short list of draws for 1986.

Why do I include this? For two reasons;

1. Didn't you say Orndorff had a chance to get on, KB?! The hell?!

2. Would you consider Orndorff to really be that mega face.

The truth is, every good face needs a force of evil, someone who draws the audience in to watch him get his ass kicked. Piper took Orndorff and have him the best run of his career. He took Hogan, and made him that much more likable. Hell, when it was time for Virgil-Dibiase, Piper made Virgil instantly credible by being in his corner.

Or, how about we take KB's word into it?

To suggest that Piper was just a guy is incorrect. Piper is the reason the Rock N Wrestling Connection, which gave birth to Wrestlemania which gave birth to the Golden Era of the WWF, got started. I've heard Piper say that without him there would be no Wrestlemania and odds are he's right. Hulk Hogan was amazingly popular, but without someone to fight, there was no conflict. You couldn't just throw a monster of the week in there. You needed someone people could HATE. You needed someone that would kick Cyndi Lauper in the head. You needed the Hot Scot. You needed Roddy Piper.

And that isn't even counting his NWA and California runs where he drew big gates with Valentine and Brisco.


OOOH... Speaking of his NWA and Calfornia days; boy you said something funny;

Chavo, Flair and Hollywood were in NWA or WCW, this is in the WWE region which means in a WWE ring with WWE bookers so those 3 can be overlooked. Steamboat went over Flair in WCW, doesn't mean he would go over Hogan or Warrior in WWE. Adonis got heat but he was a mid carder and wasn't a top heel.

Well then... Let's look around the landscape, and see who's right fucked, based on this logic.

Why, in WWE, I can see AJ Styles is fucked when he faces Shane "Dean" Douglas. Douglas was an IC champ, don't ya know?

In WCW, The Genius was given a contract and the Gorgeous George moniker. And that's more than his opponent, Lou Thesz, who loses in the upset f a lifetime.

He shouldn't feel that bad, though; he'll be joined in the losers bracket by Andre the Giant. But fear not, Andre, you bowed out to a man with a rich history in WCW. And there's no shame in losing to Tully Blanchard

In the ECW region, CM Punk had a stint in WWECW. But why have that when you can have the real thing? Bully Ray has accomplishments in the old ECW; Bully goes over CM Punk.

And lastly, in the international region, Jericho's performance overseas means nothing compared to Kenta Kobashi, and Bruno probably loses to Frank Gotch because Gotch wrestled in Europe or something.

See the problems here?

 

[The Brain]

I’m surprised so many early posts are favoring Yokozuna. Maybe I shouldn’t be, but I am. I think this one goes to Piper. Piper is a great brawler, but he’s also a smart wrestler. He will have a strategy to wear Yoko out. Yoko will count on capturing Piper and naturally using his weight to keep Piper grounded but I don’t think Piper would be easy to catch. He can stick and move and has the perfect finishing move to beat someone much bigger than him. It might be hard to imagine Piper pinning Yoko but I think it’s very plausible that Piper takes Yoko down with the sleeper.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Look; I tried this argument with KB when I argued Dusty Rhodes should go into our hall of fame this year. I lost that argument, and lost outright, knowing that I done fucked up in trying to argue what you're saying right now, so also understand I know this argument very well... And I know how to debunk it, too.

That way to debunk it is Paul Orndorff. Because Piper and Orndorff drew huge houses in '86, when Piper turned on him. It wasn't the mega face you were expecting, but he and Ornodorff did huge business, both winding up on the short list of draws for 1986.

Why do I include this? For two reasons;

1. Didn't you say Orndorff had a chance to get on, KB?! The hell?!

2. Would you consider Orndorff to really be that mega face.

The truth is, every good face needs a force of evil, someone who draws the audience in to watch him get his ass kicked. Piper took Orndorff and have him the best run of his career. He took Hogan, and made him that much more likable. Hell, when it was time for Virgil-Dibiase, Piper made Virgil instantly credible by being in his corner.

Or, how about we take KB's word into it?




And that isn't even counting his NWA and California runs where he drew big gates with Valentine and Brisco.


OOOH... Speaking of his NWA and Calfornia days; boy you said something funny;



Well then... Let's look around the landscape, and see who's right fucked, based on this logic.

Why, in WWE, I can see AJ Styles is fucked when he faces Shane "Dean" Douglas. Douglas was an IC champ, don't ya know?

In WCW, The Genius was given a contract and the Gorgeous George moniker. And that's more than his opponent, Lou Thesz, who loses in the upset f a lifetime.

He shouldn't feel that bad, though; he'll be joined in the losers bracket by Andre the Giant. But fear not, Andre, you bowed out to a man with a rich history in WCW. And there's no shame in losing to Tully Blanchard

In the ECW region, CM Punk had a stint in WWECW. But why have that when you can have the real thing? Bully Ray has accomplishments in the old ECW; Bully goes over CM Punk.

And lastly, in the international region, Jericho's performance overseas means nothing compared to Kenta Kobashi, and Bruno probably loses to Frank Gotch because Gotch wrestled in Europe or something.

See the problems here?

First off my point in WWE region is accomplishments in other places mean nothing in WWE just fact. I mention this because WWE books things very differently than most places. Now with Piper did the WWE need Piper for Rock and Wrestling? Yes but that's not the point. Piper was such a mouth and could get mad heat which made him the perfect guy against Hogan. But, Piper was the guy that people watched to get beat and even though he faced Hogan he wasnt a threat to Hogan he was just the mouthy guy that was perfect to feed to Hogan.

Yoko had a different role, his job was to be the dominant foreigner to beat everyone until the face of the company ended his reign of terror. Thats why Yoko would win. Piper was meant to lose to the top face, Yoko was meant to win lots and lose when it really meant something. Piper dont need to win, Yoko does and its not WWEA's style to have their monster heel to lose to someone who rarely wins and doesnt need it.

 

[Con T.]

Yoko had a different role, his job was to be the dominant foreigner to beat everyone until the face of the company ended his reign of terror. Thats why Yoko would win. Piper was meant to lose to the top face, Yoko was meant to win lots and lose when it really meant something. Piper dont need to win, Yoko does and its not WWEA's style to have their monster heel to lose to someone who rarely wins and doesnt need it.

As I outlined earlier, he was never all that dominant, even when he was winning.

Let's look at Yoko's run as champion:

Wrestlemania IX: needed Mr. Fuji throwing salt in the eyes of Bret Hart, otherwise was about to lose

Wrestlemania IX: lost to Hulk Hogan in like 25 seconds

Well, that was fun, right? Ok, seriously:

King of the Ring: needed a fireball to beat Hulk Hogan

Summerslam: lost to Lex Luger by count out.

Survivor Series:lost in his Survivor Series match when he got counted out with the Undertaker

Royal Rumble: beat the Undertaker when 11 guys stuffed Taker in a casket.

Wrestlemania X: won by a disqualification against Luger

Wrestlemania X: lost to Bret Hart by pin.

It gets worse; by the 1994 King of the Ring, Yokozuna was right back in the mid card, losing with Crush against the Headshrinkers. (By the way, who main evented that pay per view?)

By Summerslam, Yokozuna wasn't even on the card, before finally having his blow off with Undertaker and essentially fucking off for the rest of his career.

Where is this supposed dominance, again?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

As I outlined earlier, he was never all that dominant, even when he was winning.

Let's look at Yoko's run as champion:

Wrestlemania IX: needed Mr. Fuji throwing salt in the eyes of Bret Hart, otherwise was about to lose

Wrestlemania IX: lost to Hulk Hogan in like 25 seconds

Well, that was fun, right? Ok, seriously:

King of the Ring: needed a fireball to beat Hulk Hogan

Summerslam: lost to Lex Luger by count out.

Survivor Series:lost in his Survivor Series match when he got counted out with the Undertaker

Royal Rumble: beat the Undertaker when 11 guys stuffed Taker in a casket.

Wrestlemania X: won by a disqualification against Luger

Wrestlemania X: lost to Bret Hart by pin.

It gets worse; by the 1994 King of the Ring, Yokozuna was right back in the mid card, losing with Crush against the Headshrinkers. (By the way, who main evented that pay per view?)

By Summerslam, Yokozuna wasn't even on the card, before finally having his blow off with Undertaker and essentially fucking off for the rest of his career.

Where is this supposed dominance, again?

He was champ 9 months as a heel and ended Hulkamania! Aren't you taking how Yoko's matches went a little too literally? Pipers record is much worse than Yokos against the top face, just saying. I could sit here and name hundreds of matches Piper lost against top guys even when he cheated. Yoko may have cheated but he still won and against mid carders Yoko destroyed them.

Once again its not about draws its about who would logically win. Dominant Yoko only loses to top faces in his prime, Piper loses to most as that was his character in his WWE prime. It wasn't Pipers job to win.

 

[Con T.]

I could sit here and name hundreds of matches Piper lost against top guys even when he cheated. Yoko may have cheated but he still won and against mid carders Yoko destroyed them.

Once again its not about draws its about who would logically win. Dominant Yoko only loses to top faces in his prime, Piper loses to most as that was his character in his WWE prime. It wasn't Pipers job to win.

You could, and you'd be ultimately be rolling rocks up the hill, Sisyphus. I'm not arguing that Piper is dominant force that always gets the win. On the major factors of your argument is that Yokozuna was a dominant force, who laid waste to everything in front of him. The truth is, he laid waste to a jobber or two, and everyone else, he needed help to win. Major, major help.

You wouldn't be taking down my argument at all by pointing to a win loss record, you'd have to disprove that Piper:

Had more of an impact (which you agreed with)
Drew more money (you agreed, and rightfully so)
Was better than Yokozuna (you agreed to that, too)

And your argument is;

Yokozuna is more dominant (which he wasn't. He held on to his belt not by winning clean, but by heel tactics. Perfectly fine, but that doesn't make you a dominant monster heel, that makes you Ric Flair)

Give me one good reason to believe Piper couldn't at least hook a sleeper hold in Yokozuna; just one.

Also, Hulkamania was alive and wellnine years later in the same company. He didn't kill Hulkamania... Hell, Hulkamania actually outlived him

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Chavo, Flair and Hollywood were in NWA or WCW, this is in the WWE region which means in a WWE ring with WWE bookers so those 3 can be overlooked. Steamboat went over Flair in WCW, doesn't mean he would go over Hogan or Warrior in WWE. Adonis got heat but he was a mid carder and wasn't a top heel.

according to Klunderbunker the regions mean nothing. It does not mean that the WWE books the matches.

From the draw thread...

The regions mean nothing. It's just a way to organize things.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

You could, and you'd be ultimately be rolling rocks up the hill, Sisyphus. I'm not arguing that Piper is dominant force that always gets the win. On the major factors of your argument is that Yokozuna was a dominant force, who laid waste to everything in front of him. The truth is, he laid waste to a jobber or two, and everyone else, he needed help to win. Major, major help.

You wouldn't be taking down my argument at all by pointing to a win loss record, you'd have to disprove that Piper:

Had more of an impact (which you agreed with)
Drew more money (you agreed, and rightfully so)
Was better than Yokozuna (you agreed to that, too)

And your argument is;

Yokozuna is more dominant (which he wasn't. He held on to his belt not by winning clean, but by heel tactics. Perfectly fine, but that doesn't make you a dominant monster heel, that makes you Ric Flair)

Give me one good reason to believe Piper couldn't at least hook a sleeper hold in Yokozuna; just one.

Also, Hulkamania was alive and wellnine years later in the same company. He didn't kill Hulkamania... Hell, Hulkamania actually outlived him

My argument is based on character portrayal. For example Jake is better than Yoko but he's not the top face, his job was to get the heel ready for the top face. Much like Piper although Piper was higher on the card. Piper was a draw but he was never the guy who was meant to win, it just wasn't his job. Being better doesn't mean always winning and given Piper was used most to get feuds and others over I think him doing the same for Yoko makes a lot of sense.

I'm not saying Piper can't win but Piper often lost because he didnt have to win, that's why he usually lost in WWE. At the end he could job a year straight and be as over as he ever was. Yoko is the type who would win a good chunk of matches until the big face stopped him. As the headline of Summerslam 93 says "somebody has to stop him" but Piper has never been the guy who stopped the big heel. Character wise its more likely for Piper to lose, that's what he did.

 

[Con T.]

Except for Adrian Adonis

And for Hollywood Hogan

And for Jerry Lawler

You mentioned how Piper would be playing the babyface in this match; it isn't his prime, but for the sake of the match, let's make him the face. Because when he's a face, he gets the payoff in the end. He did against Adonis, who was bigger than him, and he did with Hollywood Hogan, clean in the middle of the ring. Piper was brought in against the most over heel in professional wrestling (and I think you could make the argument Hollywood Hogan was the greatest heel character ever), at the biggest pay per view WCW has to offer, and beat him clean

Wanna backtrack that argument a little, babaloo?

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Dear Johnson, if the majority of people are going to be voting based merely upon kayfabe, nigh, if the majority of people are going to vote wrongly based upon kayfabe this tournament is going to be dismal.

This tie goes to Roddy Piper as far as I can see it. I try to vote for who I see as the better package on the whole, which doesn't even include drawing power, yet if it did it would favour the Piper anyway. Yokozuna has always been described as being a great big man. That's a nice accomplishment. Piper was a great normal-sized man, in a a business that was chocked full of bigger men, in a business that had transitioned to favour the bigger man. This is excluding any of the previous work, but in the late 80s when everybody and anybody was juicing to get themselves to the top, in a time where people like Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior were the ultimate archetype for a wrestler, there was a normal-sized man, a guy who looked like many of the people in the audience. That man stood across the ring from Hulk Hogan at the very first, most pivotal moment in the history of modern wrestling. The first one. He was the Yin to Hulkamania's Yang, and it wouldn't have been the same, nor as successful onward without the perfect foil to help launch it. How could that happen? How could an ordinary looking guy play that role. Because, ladies and gentlemen, Rowdy Roddy Piper was fucking tremendous.

He was not just an exception, but THE exceptional guy who broke out when he did. He could draw heat from your grandmother. Go back and listen to Ric Flair's HOF induction speech for him. You hear people say that Yokozuna was a great big man, or that he was great for his size. Well Roddy Piper was just great, no add-ons. He was and is an all-time great, and I'm sorry, but much better than Yokozuna could ever hope to be. That's not a boot to Rodney, just a testament to Piper. I'm not going to be resigned to simply voting out Piper just because Yokozuna was big and strong and dominating. Neither should you be.