WWE Region, Memphis Subregion, Second Round: (5) Edge vs. (12) Roddy Piper

Discussion in 'WWE Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 21, 2013.

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Who wins this match?

  1. Edge

  2. Roddy Piper

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a second round match in the WWE Region, Memphis Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under WWE Rules. It will be held at the Fed Ex Forum in Memphis, Tennessee. Assume one week has passes since the first round match.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    #5. Edge

    Vs.

    [​IMG]

    #12. Roddy Piper



    Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    We all know what both of these men accomplished, so I'm not going to get into to that. Instead, I'm going to recycle the same argument that I used against Piper in his match for Yokozuna.

    Piper RARELY EVER went over the top guys of the business. Whether he got counted out, DQ'd, or what have you. The point here is that the man lost to the top stars. Edge was such a star. Many World Heavyweight Championship reigns, was the face of Smackdown for years, and has wins over people such as Cena, Orton, Jericho, Big Show, Undertaker, Batista, Rey Mysterio, and etc. Piper should not go over here at all.

    Be reasonable here people and vote Edge.
     
    #2
  3. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    A dramatization of true events:

    Person A (entering a room): Hey what's up?

    Person B: Oh Edge just lost again.

    Person A: Meh, did he lose the title?

    Person B: Can't remember if he had another title.

    Person A: Didn't he just beat <<insert 2000's star>>?

    Person B: Yeah, via <<insert gimmick match or gimmick match prize here>>.

    Person A: Did he use the spear?

    Person B: If you want to call it that. Although, I think he makes it look real enough now that it may knock over and finish my grandma.

    Person A: Remember the live sex show?

    Person B: Vince has never had to work so hard to get someone over.

    Person A: Yeah, I prefer Christian too.

    Roddy Piper beat cancer, he can beat Edge. Stop being stupid.
     
    #3
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  4. Papa Pillman

    Papa Pillman I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan

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    Although Edge will always be remembered as greater than he actually was, and Roddy will always be remembered as being greater than his accomplishments would let on...

    The fact still remains that Edge is an eleven time world champ who took the belt away from Cena, Triple H, and Taker amongst others; while Roddy never reached the top of the mountain in the WWE. In fact Edge is a five time IC champ with a win over Orton amongst his victories, while Roddy won only a single IC title and picked up that victory against the Mountie.

    In this round Rated RKO's inflated accomplishments drive them to victory against their arguably more talented but far less decorated pre-attitude era WWF legend opponents.
    Edge goes through cleanly against Piper, for many of the same reasons Orton sails past Hennig.
     
    #4
  5. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I'm taking Piper here. I took Yoko last round but this round is completely different. Edge may have more titles than Yokozuna but he wasn't dominant like Yoko, as in at all.

    Piper rarely loses ever and I don't think Edge would be one of the guys that would go over Piper. Edge is great but he certainly isn't Hulk Hogan and Piper didn't get pinned by him, chances are he isn't getting pinned by Edge either. Bret pinned Piper clean at a time he was still very good but completely different situation, Bret desperately needed that push and Piper let Bret beat him, it was at a time where Bret was on the rise and Piper was starting to take a back seat, so it made sense.

    This match is prime vs. prime and the only guys I can see beating Piper in that situation are guys that are very domineering between the ropes. Edge lost a HELL of a lot and certainly didn't draw as well as Piper did.

    Piper could and should take Edge this round.
     
    #5
  6. LSN80

    LSN80 King Of The Ring

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    I think one of the things that people are failing to take into account are Edge and Piper in their primes. As in, Edge always had someone running outside interference for him, whether it be Lita, Vickie, Hawkins and Ryder, or La Familia. In his prime, he would likely be accompanied by one of them ringside, who would undoubtably run outside interference for him.

    What did that outside interference do for him? It occasionally backfired, but for the most part, it was integral in Edge winning and retaining his titles. It allowed him to beat the biggest names in the business, for championships, multiple times. HHH, John Cena, Batista, Undertaker, and Rey Mysterio. Along with being an 11 time World Champion, something Piper never was, Edge holds an even greater accomplishment.

    He ended the career of the Undertaker. Even be it for a few months, Edge won a match where he ended the career of the Undertaker. Shawn Michaels ended Ric Flair's career. Undertaker ended Shawn Michaels career. And however briefly, Edge ended Undertaker's career.

    Leaving all that aside, Im still undecided here. Edge's accomplishments are inflated by an era of flip-flopping the belt, and he never had a defining title reign. He's one of my all-time favorites and performers, but he's overrated. The problem for Piper is this: He was featured in so many high-profile matches and feuds, but never sniffed the World Title. Most of his biggest moments were outside of the ring, in Piper's Pit, and he was even more injury prone then Edge was.

    Both men have had great success in high-profile matches. The question to be asked is this: Would Edge's outside interference, which would undoubtably be there, benefit or hinder him? It did both during his prime, what would it do for him against Piper?

    I'm not sure. I'm leaning Edge, but could be swayed.

    Not always. He defeated Hogan 100% clean with the sleeper at 1996 Starrcade, in the main event, when Hogan was the focal point of the organization. Starcade was WCW's biggest PPV, and Piper beat him clean.

    Granted, it was non-title. But I'm hard pressed to think of an Edge victory over a top star(Cena, HHH, Undertaker) that was clean.
     
    #6
  7. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Piper has an "Ace" in the hole with Orton. Piper could just as easily resort to dirty tricks and interference to beat Edge as well. If Lita or anyone else ran down she could very well get a cast upside the head.

    Piper was also a crafty individual and smarter than the average bear. Edge would definitely interfere but I honestly think Piper being who he is that interference for Edge would most likely backfire right in his face. And once again, cast to the head.

    Anyways in the Edge interference stance that's how I think it would go down. Edge's interference would hurt him more than help him against a competitor like Roddy.
     
    #7
  8. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    I can't argue with this point at all. Edge was nowhere near as dominant.

    Piper rarely loses? Are we talking about Rowdy Roddy Piper or another Roddy Piper? The Piper that I remember routinely lost to the top stars of the business. Like it or not, Edge is such a star.

    I'm so sick of this whole, "Piper never got pinned by Hogan," argument. Piper may not have been pinned by Hogan, however, he still lost to Hogan enough times. We're not arguing whether or not Edge would pin Piper. We're arguing whether or not Edge or Piper would just simply WIN this match.

    See though, Edge beat plenty more of those domineering guys than Piper did. Cena, Batista, and 'Taker just to name a few. I'm not saying that Edge would win clean or that he would even pin Piper, but he would go over.

    Vote Edge.
     
    #8
  9. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Piper's win/loss record against top stars is a hell of a lot better than you are making it out to be. Piper almost never went down to top stars.

    And Hogan lost to Piper enough times as well. Piper could often get a countout win against big stars, Andre and Hogan are 2 that immediately come to mind.

    All by outside interference though and you forget one thing. Piper's wrestling IQ is very high and had outside interference on his side as well. As LSN pointed out Edges interference blew up in his face as much as it helped him. When you got Piper, someone who is very smart and has someone to weed out that interference it drops Edges chances significantly. He's not going against someone who never cheats like Batista or Cena he's going against one of the few guys that would sink lower then him to achieve victory.
     
    #9
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  10. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    There's an exception to every rule and both Piper and Hogan were past their primes in that match IMO. That fact that it was a non-title match, IMO, hurts Piper more than it helps, because he could never beat anyone when the strap was on the line. He just couldn't win the big one and Edge one the big one a lot.

    I never said that Edge would beat Piper clean or that he would even pin Piper for the win, however, I do think that Edge would win.

    Vote Edge.
     
    #10
  11. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    Edge is known as the Ultimate Opportunist... because he takes opportunities handed to him by outside sources and capitalizes on them. It helped him beat some great wrestlers, but what remains is Edge needed a lot of help from gimmick matches and outside interference to win a lot of his big matches. His peak was as a heel when he was winning the WWE heavyweight title once a week... and most of those wins were due to interference or taking advantage of some outside source.

    Roddy Piper as a heel was DQ'd quite a bit, but rarely pinned. As a face, Piper was nearly untouchable. Aside from losing to Bret Hart, Piper's beaten Hogan clean in the middle of the ring, beat Bret Hart for the US Title, and managed to win the IC title and nearly win the Royal Rumble in the same night.

    When it boils down to it, Edge would have tons of trouble with Piper, because every dirty trick Edge does, Piper probably invented or perfected it. Piper's toughness is second to none as well. Edge has been put through the ringer, but in gimmick matches. Piper's toughness comes in regular matches and against opponents that are all time greats. The majority of Edge's major wins came in gimmick matches.

    Since there's no gimmick here, I give this match to Piper because he's smarter, and would out think Edge to get the victory after a botched interference from Lita and a roll-up to 1-2-3.

    EVERYONE PAYS THE PIPER!!!! Even Edge.
     
    #11
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  12. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I have a feeling this will be really close, and it probably should be. Edge benefitted from being from an era when heels got a fair crack of the whip with the world championship, and the effect of that shouldn't be ignored but I actually think he deserves to win here. Piper, as has been stated multiple times, doesn't have many major wins in a decisive fashion. Edge does, and should win.
     
    #12
  13. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    Piper throughout his prime was the guy that was booked to make it seem as if he was unbeatable and an incredible challenge to overcome, when in actuality he was just the first guy that Hogan took down. Edge was getting ridiculous heat during his prime while being the heel that you knew could beat you favorite face because he's done it before and did it on a big stage. Also Edge has 9 world titles and Roddy piper was simply the perennial challenger throughout his career in the NWA and his early time in the WWF. Easy vote for Edge here
     
    #13
  14. Mr. Artistic guy

    Mr. Artistic guy Better Off This Way

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    This match isn't really the same as Orton and Henning because there's a much bigger talent gap in this match. I've already mentioned this somewhere else, but Edge is the most over-decorated superstar of all time bar none, Piper is probably the most under-decorated superstar of all time. For all the ridiculous shed loads of belts Edge held in the WWE, he never achieved success on the level that Piper did when he was at his height. And at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

    I've never seen a company push a guy so hard to try to get him over as Edge. People talk about how he was special and had the look since he debuted and he won mountains of tag title belts and then the King of the Ring in 2001. It wasn't until 2006 that Edge became a main eventer. Over the next five years he won ten world titles. I'd be upset if Flair won that many world titles in that time, it's really and over-inflation of how good he was and his value in the company, because WWE never put all of their eggs in the basket when it came to Edge. He had his run with Cena and then they shipped him off to Smackdown as soon as they could because it was plausible that he could be successful on the B-show. He's been responsible for some of the worst and most boring wrestling TV I've ever watched in his later years.

    Piper is the exact opposite. Like he says, he was a skinny 15 year old kid when he got into wrestling and he took every opportunity. This is the territory days, you had to be the best to make the most money and Piper worked up through the system to eventually be handed the right to be the heel opposite Hulk Hogan at the first ever Wrestlemania. This match is the exact reason you don't look at title wins and make a decision, because anybody who's watched the both of them in their primes would say that Piper was just better. Piper is also probably the greatest example of someone who didn't NEED a title belt, he held relatively few but he had huge success everywhere he was.

    He's one of the greatest talkers of all time, one of the most natural performers and could give lessons on how to work a match without having a move set like Shawn Michaels, because the fans always reacted to what he was doing, heel or face. I can see the argument that can be made for Edge going over Piper, but it stinks. If you know anything about these two guys and have watched some of it Piper is the clear winner. His name's Roddy Piper, and you aint seen nothing yet.
     
    #14
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  15. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    No, Just no. Piper was nothing more then a notch off of Hogan's belt and is vastly overrated by most.

    Edge suffered a severe neck injury when he was on the fast track to the main event in 2003. Between 2004 and 2005 every one of the smackdown 6 became world champions. Edge was one of the last guys to compete in the tag team division of WWE when it was still world class. Edge legitimized his self as a main eventer in 2004 while he didn't win the title until 2006, something Piper never did.

    Flair won his titles in a different time when it was common place to hold the title for a year or more. WWE pushed Edge as a top star from the time he won his first title up until he left the company.


    Vince had expanded nationally by the time Wrestlemania came around, and it wasn't a northeastern territory any more. Piper was expendable in the feud with Hogan, seeing as how Hulkamania was running wild you could have put anyone in the ring with that guy and the crowd would have ate that shit up. I admire Piper for his success in the territory days and becomings as big as he did, but, what he became wasn't much.

    The same can be same for Edge, when in his entire career has he not been well received by the crowd? Edge goes over here, going over big stars in big environments is what he did best and he does that over a not so big star here in piper
     
    #15
  16. Brewski

    Brewski How Damn Good Am I?!

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    You know what always bugged me about piper? He really didn't wrestle that much. One of the best on the mic and one of the best talkers all time, he outclasses edge in that aspect by MILES. But it always amazed me Roddy would get in a big feud without really doing anything for a while. 1990 was the most work he ever did beating mostly jobbers but before and after that his matches would occur sporadically. Like was it injuries or something? I just never got hit. He was diagnosed with cancer in 07 so I don't think that was ailing him quite yet in the 80s and 90s.

    Basically Piper's talking is what really kept him relevant over the years. He did beat Flair, Hogan, and Savage in WCW, great wins. But I don't know if that's enough to win this match here with Edge. I'm not even counting the title difference because in Hogan era WWF the title never changed hands. By the time Edge was in his prime everybody was getting a slice of the pie.

    Now, I do like Edge. I still think he should have lost to Roode last week but that's besides the point. Edge, while not nearly as popular as Roddy, was still a pretty big deal throughout his prime. Funny guy, good talker, good heel, but Piper beats him in all those categories. When it comes to wrestling and athleticism I think Edge has a clear advantage to piper. He's just much better in the ring IMO.

    What this boils down to really is who's smarter, who's a better cheater, who can get away with it. I really can't decide who's more clever if i'm honest. I guess piper would be smarter to cheat first but Edge would have a better shot of getting away with it. Right now I'm stumped, I'll go back and watch some matches and decide.
     
    #16
  17. HBsam31

    HBsam31 Totally Reeking of Awesomeness

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    I am also stumped on this one. I voted Yoko in the first round. Yoko to me was a very dominant force in his short prime, and I thought his size would just be a bit much for Piper. Now with Piper pulling that win off, it is kinda hard for me to vote against him in this round against Edge. Edge is definitely over decorated, but he was very over in his own right. He beat the best of his time. He beat Undertaker in what was a great feud. Edge has accomplished everything in his career, and even though it was during a time where the belts were passed around quite a bit he still deserves credit. Piper came up the hard way, and that belt never left Hogan's waist in that era. Piper, I would say has Edge in every aspect except in ring skills though Piper was very good in the ring. I am really leaning towards Piper, but I am going to think about this some more before choosing.
     
    #17
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  18. wrestlingfan

    wrestlingfan Championship Contender

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    Piper. Edge was great but he didn't impact anything other than revolutionize TLC. Piper on the other hand allowed Hogan to become a great babyface, created the Piper's Pit which influenced the Cutting Edge, and was the first true tweener.

    If you want to throw in the in ring wor argument many would say Edge is an average worker who's terrific at gimmick matches.
     
    #18
  19. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
    E-Fed Mod

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    This match is pretty easy to determine a winner...Piper was a heel in his prime; Edge was a heel in his prime. Piper was dirty, but Edge was dirtier. Piper couldn't overcome Hogan - the biggest force as the time, while Edge handed Cena his ass and dignity numerous times. If Piper pioneered being a bad guy, then Edge revolutionized it. When Edge first used that MITB briefcase to beat Cena after he exhausted himself, I thought that was the biggest dick move I had ever seen.

    If being king of the dicks isn't enough to suite for fancy, just look at the guys resume... a bajillion tag titles and a gazillion world titles; most of which were the result of him being an opportunistic bastard. "Edge is champion again, who did he fuck over this time?" That pretty much describes his career. And the heat and hatred he got was massive, bah gawd. And even though he lost [cuz that's what heels do] he always managed to bounce right back by basically...being a dick.

    A prime Edge is just too much for a prime Piper to deal with. He wins.
     
    #19
  20. Mr. Artistic guy

    Mr. Artistic guy Better Off This Way

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    #20
  21. LSN80

    LSN80 King Of The Ring

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    Eh, would you consider Hogan, the focus of WCW in 96', still in his prime? Piper did beat him clean with the sleeper at Starcade, but it's the only victory I can recall him getting over Hogan.

    I've gone back and forth, and this is where I'm sold. Edge actually took the WWE or World Title from Cena more times then Cena did from him. Who else can that be said about? The cash-in at NYR 06', No Way Out 2009, and Backlash 09 in a LMS match. Cena beat Edge at Royal Rumble 2006, Unforgiven 2006, and Wrestlemania 25(and numerous title rematches), but Edge became champion at the face of the company's expense more then anyone else has, including Punk.

    He also cost Cena the WWE Title at ONS 2006 when he speared Cena through a table, and cost Cena his rematch when he had RVD trapped in the STF on the Raw after Vengeance. He then won the title in a triple threat match the next week with RVD...and Cena.

    Piper was a thorn in Hogan's side, but Edge often proved to be Cena's kryptonite. I haven't checked the stats, but other then perhaps Punk, noone has beaten Cena more, or won more matches at his expense. When you do that at the expense of the face of the company, and retire the freaking Undertaker for a short time, that's a pretty good sign you're going over a man who could'nt beat the face of the company in his prime.

    I'm sold, and you should be too. Edge would win this.
     
    #21
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  22. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I like Piper as much as the next guy, but I think people are really stretching for reasons to keep progressing Piper through this tournament. He shouldn't have gone past Yokozuna in the first round, but he did. Against Edge though, I'm not buying into the arguments.

    At the end of the day, Piper is someone who ultimately made it to the big party but wasn't able to dance. Piper's feuds with Hogan during the mid 80s were great but Piper ultimately came up short. Despite all his tricks and all his resourcefulness, Piper never won the big one. Edge, on the other hand, was successful. He may have been elevated too many times in the minds of some but Edge was a multi time World Champion and, unlike Piper, went over frequently against the top names of his day in World Championship matches.

    Does that automatically mean Edge is better? Not at all, but pretty much everyone uses a wrestler's accomplishments as a measuring stick to where he falls in the grand scheme of things. Piper is considered one of the best to have never been a World Champion and rightly. If this was a brawl of some sort, Piper would most definitely be on even terms as Edge. Some sort of gimmick match, Piper would be right there. In a standard 1 on 1 match, I'm going with a top heel who ultimately climbed the mountain some 10 times over a great top heel who never climbed it once.
     
    #22
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  23. Brewski

    Brewski How Damn Good Am I?!

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    I thought about it, slept on it, and really it's become pretty clear for me. Edge wrestled a lot more than piper and has had a lot more success in various parts of his career. He just has more experience. I remember edge for his matches, I remember piper for his talking. I wanna vote for piper but I can't, Edge wins by Piper's DQ.
     
    #23
  24. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Easy decision for me, Piper and Edge are basically versions of each other in different wrestling ideologies, with Piper in the unbeatable face period and Edge in the hot potato period. As such, Piper was the guy who would ultimately loose while Edge was the guy who would appear at the opportune moment to capitalize on weakness.

    This tournament were the guy who may ultimately lose prevails in the opening rounds because you can't continually be the opportunist in a knockout competition. Piper is famous for this (the longest thorn Hogan ever had in his side) whereas Edge is famous for winning by surprise, then losing.

    Piper wins because being the ultimate opportunist doesn't help here, being a perceived threat without quirks does.
     
    #24
  25. deem

    deem Getting Noticed By Management

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    I agree fully with this for the reasons LSN80 just stated. Edge routinely troubled the top stars while remaining relevant and at the top of the card for a decade. Roddy is just as good a heel, but was never as much of a threat to the top talents.

    The only way this doesn't hold up is if Roddy's era was harder to be relevant in. That's pretty debatable imo within kayfabe - I do think Hogan>Cena marginally, but let's have a look at the rosters.

    First thing that jumps out for me is that both men were top 5 in WWF/E for their prime decade.

    1980s top five - Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Roddy Piper, Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase.
    2000s top five - John Cena, Triple H, Edge, Batista, Randy Orton

    I think those are fairly undeniable. What's interesting is looking at the next five down to get some context of how tough it was to hold that top five ranking.

    2000s - Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho
    1980s - Bob Backlund, John Studd? The Ultimate Warrior? Paul Orndorff? Iron Sheik?

    1980s is really hard to define as no one remained relevant for long in the main event. Backlund was done by 1984, Warrior wasn't main event yet. Sheik was transitional, Studd never really had a title feud.

    Anyway, the point is Edge won a LOT in a far harder roster to do so in. You can point out Piper going clean over Hogan in WCW, but it wasn't his peak. His peak was being a dick heel and main eventing the first Wrestlemania a #1 heel in the world. He was brushed aside and never got the title win at the time though, although it was very hard for a heel to win granted. Regardless, Edge has done far, far more and should be good for your vote here.
     
    #25

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