WWE PG, Attitude & All Other "Eras" Thread

[Lockard23]

World Wrestling Federation and World Wrestling Entertainment.

What were and are the differences and at its peak which caused more positives and negatives?

The Entertainment Era where more focus on entertainment than true pro wrestling and its effects on today's product.
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I posted these videos because it was the beginning of the slide at the beginning of the decade when the product really got over exposed in more ways than one which may have done long term damage.


The Federation Era where more focus on transformation from pro wrestling to sports entertainment.
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The above video illustrates the transformation of the 80's to current PG Era

Before the Expansion the sport in the media
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The fall of The Federation Era (Early 90's scandal)
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Now the question is which entity did more for the business and did worse for the business?

On the surface it may seem like a superficial question that its the same company, but in reality WWE and WWF are two totally different beasts.

What are your pros and cons from each version of the Boss' Empire?

At their peaks which company would you take? Which company do you personally prefer and why?

Take into account the different approach in styles from all aspects from the heavy kayfabe to the action adventure to PG philosophies.

What if anything can the company today learn from its past mistakes and learn from the positives?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Very interesting question...

For me the WWWF was a regional wrestling company, perhaps the biggest of its time in terms of revenue but not in exposure. Talent loved to go to New York as Vince Sr. was a generous pay off man and "looked after" talent. They had control of perhaps the first real "mega star" in Andre The Giant and while guys like Bruno, Superstar and Backlund were never really nationally touring guys, they always guaranteed an outside worker a big payday if they could get into MSG with them but how often did those big names venture out with the exception of Andre? Not often... New York was somewhere people got very comfortable very quickly and they often decided early on to do their utmost to stay there.

The fundamental difference here is that Vince Sr. was at the helm, an old style promoter with wrestling ingrained in his product. Vince Sr. invested in talent he liked and played hardball when he didn't agree, he let Hogan walk over Rocky III - A massive blunder akin to not signing the Beatles. Vince Jr. was able to salvage it, but it was that old school, benign but almost blinkered view that saw him pretty much hoodwinked out of the company by his son.

The moment Vince Jr. bought the company that focus shifted, and we got Vince's purest version of his dream right afterwards with "Rock 'N Wrestling". Not just the MTV exposure or Wrestlemania, but the ice cream bars, toys,albums even the cartoon. In that mid 80's slot you had WWF guys showing up on episodes of the A-Team and Mr. T showing up in the WWF. It was heavily kayfabed, based around cartoon gimmicks and merch sales but underpinned by that live show ethic that his father had built and using excellent WRESTLERS in the undercard and IC divisions like Greg Valentine, Tito Santana, Rick Steamboat and Jake Roberts.

When things started to change was 88, Vince knew he couldn't put all his eggs into Hogan's 24" pythons so he started to look for new stars. Randy Savage, The Ultimate Warrior, Bret Hart, Ric Flair. For a time he seemed to put wrestling as more of a focus by the choice of men like Savage and DiBiase, smaller and known for being top class workers and colourful second. That Flair ever became WWF champion would have probably made Vince Sr. very happy had be been around, but to Vince it was probably his worst nightmare. A guy he didn't create, who wasn't merch and kid friendly becoming the top man when he had guys like Warrior who weren't delivering. His national expansion was to a point, succeeding. Everyone knew who the WWF were through their network shows and Hulk Hogan's appearances everywhere but wrestling fans were not being well served any more and not in the sense of it being "the beer guzzling adults replaced by families" but the older kids, who didn't want to see a cartoony show.

The elephant in the room was the steroid issue and I am sure for a long time Vince carried on believing they would never indict him, it shows in some of the decisions of that late "Golden era", not elevating believable guys like Rude and Perfect to the World title to keep the Hogan/Warrior money machine going. Once it became clear it could happen he began to use shock tactics like Summerslam in the UK... they worked, they drew but they also raised the issue out into the fore, that Hogan or indeed Savage and Warrior couldn't put on a match even close to what Bret and Davey did, and that the wrong guys were in the main event.

Once it became clear he was going to be indicted, Vince did shift gears, but too late to save some of the talent who could have really made that change stick. Rick Rude was gone, a perfect man to have faced Bret in 1992-93 for the World title and more importantly one who could be pointed to as "clean". Rude was clearly an excellent physical specimen who could work, talk and was not (overly if at all roided) but Vince persisted with his "big man" complex, he brought in Yokozuna who could never be accused of being a roid monster and made him the focus. When nothing was sticking he got desperate and accomodated returns for Warrior AND Hogan at the expense of the man he had just asked us all to believe in as the new leader, Bret Hart and it led to a shocking period of malaise. Sure Vince was busy with the case, but then he should have handed off the booking/reigns during that time. WCW took full advantage of the distraction and began to sign top talent out from under his nose... Hogan, not so much but Savage? That was a body blow and when Nash and Hall went, the 2 guys Vince really HAD pinned his company on... suddenly he didn't seem so great a promoter any more.

To Be Continued....

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

Must admit, since going PG, WWE have had storylines, acts, promos that aren't very, well PG.. I can name a few..

- Jericho punching HBK's wife

- Vince McMahon getting blown up in his Limo! That ain't PG

- JBL trying to kill Cena by running him over outside in his car.

- Edge beating his brains in with the GM laptop.

- Randy delivering the RKO and kissing Stephanie McMahon in front of HHH before hitting him with a sledgehammer

Gotta say, Heel Orton in 09 was the best!

- Bryan choking out Justin Roberts has to be up there.

- CM Punk singing 'Happy Birthday' to Aaliyah was quite creepy for kids.

- Brock Lesnar destroying Cena. Extreme Rules was a bit too much for PG, But I enjoyed it.

What else would you add to this big list?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Whenever WWE does anything in which death or akin to death is involved, it always gets a lot of people worked up. Look at what happened on Raw this past Monday. Even though CM Punk poured sand out of the urn all over Taker's prone body, they were symbolically supposed to be Paul Bearer's ashes, I think. Of course, since William Moody passed away, some think it's crass to go through with it, even though both Moody's sons seem perfectly fine with it. Was it a little uncomfortable? Sure it was. That's part of what controversy is supposed to do. Another big part of it is getting people to spark discussions about it. Legitimate controversy is supposed to be something that creates that feeling rather than the tired clichés of women behaving like nymphomaniacs and wrestlers wearing every other word during promos.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

I'm not exactly sure when the "PG Era" actually began, but I consider everything post 2001 to be "PG" even if that wasn't the rating.

Since that time, the edgiest thing BY FAR was the Muhammad Hassan character. Giving the cut-throat sign across his opponent's neck when giving him the camel clutch was pretty insane. With the obvious symbolism of a "be-heading".

 

[Pedigree1]

Also to JH point death is always always a touchy subject! This whole real life Paul Bearer RIP is very touchy indeed. Without his unfortunate passing this whole feud would have just been ok! But now with this whole unfortunate situation this feud is WM IMO! You have Punk who dumped the ashes of Paul on the undertaker this past monday! To me,this is the edgiest thing the WWE has done while going PG!

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

You have Punk who dumped the ashes of Paul on the undertaker this past monday! To me,this is the edgiest thing the WWE has done while going PG!

Again...how were they the ashes of Paul Bearer, when that urn was part of Takers gimmick when Paul Bearer was alive?? Paul Bearer was the one who carried the urn around everywhere.

 

[tom9422]

Must admit, since going PG, WWE have had storylines, acts, promos that aren't very, well PG.. I can name a few..

- Jericho punching HBK's wife

- Vince McMahon getting blown up in his Limo! That ain't PG

- JBL trying to kill Cena by running him over outside in his car.

- Edge beating his brains in with the GM laptop.

- Randy delivering the RKO and kissing Stephanie McMahon in front of HHH before hitting him with a sledgehammer

Gotta say, Heel Orton in 09 was the best!

- Bryan choking out Justin Roberts has to be up there.

- CM Punk singing 'Happy Birthday' to Aaliyah was quite creepy for kids.

- Brock Lesnar destroying Cena. Extreme Rules was a bit too much for PG, But I enjoyed it.

What else would you add to this big list?

I'm not exactly sure when the "PG Era" actually began, but I consider everything post 2001 to be "PG" even if that wasn't the rating.

Since that time, the edgiest thing BY FAR was the Muhammad Hassan character. Giving the cut-throat sign across his opponent's neck when giving him the camel clutch was pretty insane. With the obvious symbolism of a "be-heading".

Hate to be that guy, but the 'PG era' began when the WWE actually went PG, back in 2008, so that of rules of most of those. From 2001-2007, it wasn't really too different from before that. They wanted to tone down the sexual and obscene stuff but they weren't afraid to go there if they felt the need, hence Katie Vick, Edge & Lita's sex celebration and so forth.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Hate to be that guy, but the 'PG era' began when the WWE actually went PG, back in 2008, so that of rules of most of those. From 2001-2007, it wasn't really too different from before that. They wanted to tone down the sexual and obscene stuff but they weren't afraid to go there if they felt the need, hence Katie Vick, Edge & Lita's sex celebration and so forth.

Sometimes its good to be "that guy" and your point is well taken. You really got to dig to find anything "edgy" since 2008 and in my opinion, NOTHING in the original post qualifies. Edge beating himself in the head with a Laptop is "Edgy"? Was that supposed to be joke...Edge..Edgy..?? Its either a poor joke or a poor example.

Zeb Colter and Jack Swaggers thinly veiled racism is about the edgiest thing I've seen as far as storylines go the past few years. And even that has been pretty tame.

 

[tom9422]

Sometimes its good to be "that guy" and your point is well taken. You really got to dig to find anything "edgy" since 2008 and in my opinion, NOTHING in the original post qualifies. Edge beating himself in the head with a Laptop is "Edgy"? Was that supposed to be joke...Edge..Edgy..?? Its either a poor joke or a poor example.

Zeb Colter and Jack Swaggers thinly veiled racism is about the edgiest thing I've seen as far as storylines go the past few years. And even that has been pretty tame.

I don't think Edge's thing counts.

J-Swag and Colter kinda have something edgy going on, but even then, its more a mockery of the tea party rather than a legitimately racist character. I suppose Punk has blurred the lines at times, just maybe Orton too. Otherwise, they've been pretty strict as far as not pushing the envelope of edginess.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I'm not exactly sure when the "PG Era" actually began, but I consider everything post 2001 to be "PG" even if that wasn't the rating.

Since that time, the edgiest thing BY FAR was the Muhammad Hassan character. Giving the cut-throat sign across his opponent's neck when giving him the camel clutch was pretty insane. With the obvious symbolism of a "be-heading".

I dont consider "PG" to have started till 2008, that's when WWE banned blood in matches and started toning down/eliminating use of chairs and tables as props in matches, etc. 2000-2007 Is basically the Ruthless Aggression Era .

Certainly we had some very UN-PG moments during 00-07...The Live Sex Celebration on RAW and bloody TLC World Title Match on RAW, both starring Edge, in 2006...The Katie Vick moment in the HHH-Big Show feud, the idea of PG, basically taking the programming back content wise to the HulkaMania Era of the 80s, didnt start until WrestleMania 24 which is the first time they banned the use of blood in matches. Restricting prop use and curtailing language followed immediately after. This coincided with the first of Linda McMahon's two failed US Senate bids.

 

[Bad Booking]

Ladies and gentlemen, it's been revised!

http://badbookingblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/wwe-pg-post.html

This piece inadvertently exposed my blog to this forum and gave it a good bump in traffic. I thank you all tremendously for it! And now it's been slightly revamped/updated. I hope you all enjoy it!