WWE Divas to pay off??

[Savior with faith 101]

So while watching Over The Limit we saw what was a good match between Kelly Kelly and The Bellas with both KK and Nikki showing a real aggressive side. Add this to the Kharma equation and i feel like we are starting to see a changing of the tides with regards to the Divas.

I feel that Kharma and Kelly Kelly will be the subject of the first real feud for Kharma, much like when Taylor Wilde got the first meaningful win against Awesome Kong in TNA. Now id like to see The Bellas then go off and feud with someone like Eve Torres, giving us 2 decent Diva feuds to promote 5 divas at the same time.

After these feuds you have Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Layla as well as the other Divas to come into the mix. So it seems we are starting to get some real strength in depth from the Divas who are rapidly improving and earning their increased TV/PPV coverage.

Thoughts?

 

[Mercer the Ruthless]

I also noticed the boost in aggression from the Divas. Brie Bella pulled a few great moves even put KK in a very arm submission hold. This could be a new, better direction for the Divas, I haven't seen them get very aggressive in quite a while. Not a bad match to me.

 

[mystery_mask]

Unless the divas get real they will always be concidered "Intermission" 90% of the time the matches are like clock work. KK for example has 3 moves, back-flip into turnbuckle, spinny herricanna thing(spelling i know) she always does & last a Stone style take down followed by face punches.

Every match they seem to be just going the the motions of the same match time & time again.

 

[Savior with faith 101]

Unless the divas get real they will always be concidered "Intermission" 90% of the time the matches are like clock work. KK for example has 3 moves, back-flip into turnbuckle, spinny herricanna thing(spelling i know) she always does & last a Stone style take down followed by face punches.

Every match they seem to be just going the the motions of the same match time & time again.

You clearly didnt pay attention to the match tonight then. If Bret Hart or Daniel Bryan had worked on Kelly Kellys arm the way Lil' Miss Bella did then people would have said it was "great psychology" but because its a Divas match people just ignore it. Thats the problem, people are so used to the Divas being crap that when they actually do something worthwhile people ignore them...

 

[1truefan]

They did show some sparks of promise in this match but still the match itself was very disappointing.

I was hoping for a title change and a kharma appearance and did not get either one.

Nothing in this match did anything to progress any type of storyline.

 

[mystery_mask]

You clearly didnt pay attention to the match tonight then. If Bret Hart or Daniel Bryan had worked on Kelly Kellys arm the way Lil' Miss Bella did then people would have said it was "great psychology" but because its a Divas match people just ignore it. Thats the problem, people are so used to the Divas being crap that when they actually do something worthwhile people ignore them...

I agree with you & all that you've said is true. But one match does not excuse the joke that is the diva's division. When i was a kid i saw a match in the womans division at the time.

It was Elundra Blaze Vs Big Bertha Fea they fought for nearly 28 minutes, Elundra even cried during the match because Bertha Fea was such a tuff woman to beat. But in the end Elundra Blaze Pulled threw in tears of victory.

THAT was the last womans match I've watched that i was emotionally envovled in. since then a couple of new moves will not be enough to step up...

 

[Savior with faith 101]

I agree with you & all that you've said is true. But one match does not excuse the joke that is the diva's division. When i was a kid i saw a match in the womans division at the time.

It was Elundra Blaze Vs Big Bertha Fea they fought for nearly 28 minutes, Elundra even cried during the match because Bertha Fea was such a tuff woman to beat. But in the end Elundra Blaze Pulled threw in tears of victory.

THAT was the last womans match I've watched that i was emotionally envovled in. since then a could of new moves will not be enough to step up...

And would you use that same type of comparison to judge todays male competitors? Are you going to judge the entire male roster based on a comparison between Christian vs Orton (match of the night) and Steamboat vs Macho Man Randy Savage??

All im saying with this thread is that there is promise. I dont think anyone in the world would claim that the Divas division is the finished article, but recently (even before Kharmas debut) there has been a renewed concentration on the Divas division. This match was another step in the long process of bringing some respect to the Divas

 

[mystery_mask]

I have hope for the Diva's division but they have a title with butterfly's on it, how serious are we suppose to take them when they prance around in their "outfits" & never take big risk's ?

In my entire life of a wrestling fan I 've never seen a womans Ladder match or a Cadge match or any kind of stipulation match like the guys have. I have never seen blood or sweat or serious desire from the diva's.

their more focused on their sexy entrances or their kinky outfits, look at Melina's twitter acount. Her top priority is a new sexy look, why not focus on better in ring skills

 

[Klown_Karnage]

There is hope for the Diva's division in the sense that there is always hope so long as a thing exists for it to get better. That being the case, I think there are a few major hurdles to overcome before the Diva's division can be anywhere near the rest of the show (and therefore become "important" enough in the mind of the casual fan to be seen as something other than filler, bathroom break or *********ion fodder for young male fans.) I'm sorry if I'm a little harsh there, but that seems to be the way it's been going for a long time.

1. Divas can only fight other divas and are therefore considered weaker than the male competitors. Divas can get pretty vicious and act tough around other Divas, but place a male competitor in the ring and they revert to weakness. Only two exceptions I've seen among the modern WWE Diva: Beth Phoenix and more recently Kharma.

2. Very limited match types. Unless it's a PPV, a Diva's match is going to be a straight up singles match or tag match and that's it. A token gimmick might be given to a very occasional match at a PPV (such as the "Extreme Makeover" match between Beth Phoenix and Michelle McCool) but in all they are constantly limited, boxed in to matches with rules that, for lack of a better term, protect them. Hey, even in regular matches you rarely see any Divas pull any of the more brutal cheating tactics. Ever seen a Diva so much as reach for a chair during a regular match? Me neither.

3. Limited body/character types. I'm excluding Kharma from this one as her appearance is very recent and in just about every way she is the antithesis of what a WWE Diva typically is. I'm not going to speak to how tough a WWE Diva actually is. How they appear, however, is as swimsuit models who get into cat-fights with each other. With the majority of WWE Divas, you could pretty much exchange their outfits and hair styles and one would not be able to tell the difference. They are that similar. In personalities/characters, they don't differ much from each other, either. I'm comparing them to the males and the diversity of personalities they are allowed to have. Granted, most of the males are gradually going towards the Joe Normal character type and it would seem the men are following the women in some ways, but the males can still have these huge and very distinctive characters which most Divas can't really compete with given their rather generic "acceptable female" characters.

There is hope for the Diva's division, but only if these issues are addressed and resolved. Frankly, I hope that Kharma's arrival will start the ball rolling.

 

[D-Blaze]

@Mystery_Mask: Check this match out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnvmTEoID4E

They've also had female cage matches before (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVuBD4HFto0 - Lita vs. Victoria, Raw Roulette) and female hardcore matches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf_Odzt3kAQ - Trish vs. Victoria, Survivor Series 2002). All good examples of women 'breaking the mold' so to speak and putting on some good matches than can rival the men.

 

[ECWDanSelby]

Sorry guys, I don't see the improvement.

Half of the match was a rest hold. You could argue it was all 'psychology', but psychology usually involves the opponent being a part of it.

Kelly had her arm worked for half the match, then got her shine and completely ignored the work she'd had done on her arm.

If you call the fact there were less botched spots an improvement, then fair enough, I guess it was.

Selby

 

[ReyStyle94]

They only had 3-4 minutes and they had to throw in a rest hold somewhere. The match was good for what it was, and I thought Brie did exceptionally well. The new and improved Bella Twins are really growing on me. The small things such as the flashy new coats and the way that Brie hoists the title up in the air like it's the last piece of gold on Earth makes me love the Bella Twins even more. Bella Army 4 Life!

 

[ECWDanSelby]

Sorry mate, again, I don't know where this "new and improved" thing comes from?

I guess we all have differing opinions on 'improved', but you can't polish a turd. The Bellas are nothing more than a pair of pretty faces.

And yes, it was only a 3/4 minute match, but literally about 2 minutes of it was a rest hold. You don't need a rest hold for that long.

And like I said, I don't hate the use of them because they do serve a purpose, but if you're going to work on a limb for half the match, surely the opponent should then sell it?!

Selby

 

[RJB1976]

The WWE needs to build the diva division much better (going back to the women's title over the Divas title would be a start). But someone talked about Diva matches being bath room breaks, they are dead wrong. Bathroom breaks are for Kahli matches, John Cena or Randy Orton promos, and anytime Michael Cole is in the ring.

 

[ReyStyle94]

It wasn't even a minute, literally. That was Kelly's fault, I didn't say Kelly had improved, I said the Bella Twins have, and I stand by that. They may not be the most technical wrestlers but their personality or attitude has definitely improved. Again, it's the little things that count. When's the last time a champion looked so proud? Brie literally carries the title above her head throughout the whole entrance. She makes the title mean more than it does, which in turn boosts the division, however minimal that boost is.

 

[Trill Co$by]

2. Very limited match types. Unless it's a PPV, a Diva's match is going to be a straight up singles match or tag match and that's it. A token gimmick might be given to a very occasional match at a PPV (such as the "Extreme Makeover" match between Beth Phoenix and Michelle McCool) but in all they are constantly limited, boxed in to matches with rules that, for lack of a better term, protect them. Hey, even in regular matches you rarely see any Divas pull any of the more brutal cheating tactics. Ever seen a Diva so much as reach for a chair during a regular match? Me neither.

Have you seen a Lay-Cool/Bella Twin match? All they do is use heel tactics. Sure, they may not go for a chair, but then again, I've never seen any divas match EVER have the psychology where a chair was needed.

Sorry guys, I don't see the improvement.

Half of the match was a rest hold. You could argue it was all 'psychology', but psychology usually involves the opponent being a part of it.

Kelly had her arm worked for half the match, then got her shine and completely ignored the work she'd had done on her arm.

If you call the fact there were less botched spots an improvement, then fair enough, I guess it was.

Selby

You just described every single person who's had a face come back since Hulk Hogan. When a wrestler starts getting his/her come back the image is that they're running off of reserved adrenaline and that they've begun to block out the pain. It's been a working success for centuries... yet because Kelly Kelly's a diva, you ridicule her for it? Yeah, learn more about wrestling before you start spewing garbage.



As for the main discussion, I completely agree with you. Ironically, for the longest time, I've been very impressed with the Diva's division. It's really becoming a thing to watch. Back when Maryse was first brought to Raw as the champion, I said she could become something. Well somehow I was proven wrong, but the point is that since then I've seen women like Michelle McCool (duh), Layla, Eve, Alicia Foxx, Natalya, Kelly Kelly, and even the Bellas go out weekly and start to put on interesting programs.

Right now, the Bellas have the title and are a heel duo. I love it. I love the old twin switch out behind the ref's back, and I definitely love the way the bellas can deliver on the mic... Throwing in Kong/Kharma to the mix, I will agree that the Diva's division looks promising.

And if you need any MORE proof, take a look at Natalya vs. Brie on smackdown this past friday. I saw more in-ring psychology from them than I did from the entire male roster.

 

[ECWDanSelby]

I'd actually say Kelly looked like she's improved over the Bellas but hey ho (no pun intended...).

I think you're right to mention the word 'minimal'. You're right, I actually agreed that there has been some improvement - It's just there wasn't a great deal to start off with, so them going out there and producing a minute long fart would probably still be considered an 'improvement'

Selby

 

[ReyStyle94]

Now you're just being asinine. The match was much better than their previous encounters.

The thing is though, that they have better wrestlers but choose to focus on the Bellas, Eve's and Kelly's, when Kharma, Beth, Gail, Natalya and Melina could all pull off amazing matches. It's not the divas' fault that they choose to focus on the less-experienced, although, by the looks of it, these divas are finally starting to get the hang of it, and the learning curve is now about to skyrocket. Just my take.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

@Mystery_Mask: Check this match out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnvmTEoID4E

They've also had female cage matches before (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVuBD4HFto0 - Lita vs. Victoria, Raw Roulette) and female hardcore matches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf_Odzt3kAQ - Trish vs. Victoria, Survivor Series 2002). All good examples of women 'breaking the mold' so to speak and putting on some good matches than can rival the men.

And you can also consider the NXT matches with A.J and Naomi, they were putting up great 7 to 8 min matches especially their one-on-one encounter. You would think the WWE would bring them over to the main roster to help improve the division.

I havent seen the Over the Limit Match but I have been entertained by the Bella Twins for quite some time, if only they had more time to capitalize on their Twin gimmick I think they could be a big contribution to the division.

I can actually see a lot of effort by Layla, Eve, The Bellas, and Maryse. All they need is more time.

 

[ECWDanSelby]

You just described every single person who's had a face come back since Hulk Hogan. When a wrestler starts getting his/her come back the image is that they're running off of reserved adrenaline and that they've begun to block out the pain. It's been a working success for centuries... yet because Kelly Kelly's a diva, you ridicule her for it? Yeah, learn more about wrestling before you start spewing garbage.
.

haha And who are you again?

Yes mate - i'm just a very sexist man that knows not a thing of professional wrestling, despite watching since 1994 and studying it tremendously

I understand the concept of adrenaline. I also understand the concept of a comeback.

What you've missed in my point is that 50% (Yes, 50% - do the math) of the match was a rest hold, WORKING ON THE ARM. They were really trying to get over how Kelly was only just hanging on.

To then have a shine and completely ignore that (I mean not even shaking the arm out for a moment) is pretty poor work, whether it's Kelly, Hogan, or Danielson.

Please do not tell me to go and learn about wrestling, junior.

Selby

 

[Heavens Vibe]

They pulled of a deccent match, I wouldn't judge it them on 1 match though, because we set ourselves up for dissapointment tonight if it doesn't happen again. I think Kharma has made the Divas realise that they need to put in more if they want to be the one to beat her. Great idea by creative if they didn't tell them who! The divas work hard, Kharma does her shit, and we all go home happy

 

[TJ Matics]

their more focused on their sexy entrances or their kinky outfits, look at Melina's twitter acount. Her top priority is a new sexy look, why not focus on better in ring skills

Melina's already a great wrestlerthe problem is looks come first, and VKM obviously thinks that K2 looks better, so she get's the TV time. So if you know you have the wrestling ability, of course your going to try and improve yoursely physically to get a step ahead(er)

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

Melina's already a great wrestlerthe problem is looks come first, and VKM obviously thinks that K2 looks better, so she get's the TV time. So if you know you have the wrestling ability, of course your going to try and improve yoursely physically to get a step ahead(er)

True very true. Vince sees the divas as eye candy and eye candy only. Kelly Kelly is cute no doubts about it, so Vince puts her on TV every week hoping we (the men ) will get a boner while seeing her. If Vince would value the divas the same way he values the male wrestlers, then wrestling skills would matter.

 

[HorsemenNo4]

I have faith in the Diva's division. There is some real talent in there (Melina, Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Kharma, and perhaps Gail Kim) but the good looking stars get a lot more attention (Kelly Kelly, Bella Twins, Layla).

Hopefully a good feud involving Kharma and Kelly Kelly will give the division a kick it needs.

What they truly need is 2 important things, a good trainer (Finley was doing a good job for awhile) and some people backstage that will give them a chance. The talent is there, they just need the proper opportunity. and no, 3 minute matches on each show every week isn't a proper opportunity.

 

[The A]

These days my problem with the divas is lack of personality. you cant tell the difference between alot of them. I feel like the bella twins are a pretty cool concept but theres no real rivalries going on. even laycool was decent but same problem no fueds. Simply the whole kharma thing will shake up the whole division and probly every diva story will build around her somehow in the coming months. As for matches, Divas dont seem to have as much skills in the ring as they did in the attitude era IMO but we'll see where it goes